Dumervile to Green Bay?

[SD Cheesehead]

A different look at how the off-season could have went besides Option 2. Option 2 is what we stand at right now w/ FA & the draft.

My Option 1:

FA:

We start off by bringing back Julius. 2 years 10 million. He retires a Packer. With at least 1 SB ring. Nuff said, for now...

We let Datone walk. We bring back Jayrone at the same rate we did, but we also LET NICK WALK. He has shown to not be an elite, Top 3-5 EDGE rusher, so why pay him like one when the only thing he does really, really good is set the edge in the run game? Letting some other team give him a huge contract ends up being the cost-cutting move that we make this off-season. BTW, this move maybe allows us to decide to be more aggressive in getting closer to what the Lions threw at T.J. Lang to get him to go to Detroit.

We sign Connor Barwin or Elvis Dumervil. Same deal as JP. Now, we have replaced Datone w/ a more decorated vet that's proven he can get sacks. Upgrade. More on that later...

Everything else in the off-season goes as status quo (The TEs, House, etc.)...

DRAFT:

We trade out of the 1st, but instead of King we draft Jordan Willis. He steps in right away at starting LOLB. He is a stud, a rich man's Nick Perry with similar strength but 4.53 40 yard frickin' SPEED! WE NEED SPEED TO GET TO THE DAMN QB!

Instead of VB as the 1st pick in Rd 4, we draft CB Damontae Kazee out of San Diego State. Good man corner who also can play zone. Will push for the starting field corner spot/prolly still moves Randall to the slot with House as the starting boundary/Gunter being the top perimeter backup corner.

Instead of Mays w/ our first 7th-round pick, we get OLB Keion Adams out of Western Michigan. More speed to get to the damn QB...

Every other pick is status quo. 5 defensive guys, 5 offensive guys. Edge rushers that can contribute now and be impactful guys later. More balanced draft, and less pressure on each player given the circumstances (I think our draft looks bad if a) King is not a Day 1 starter at corner and b) Vince Biegel ends up being essentially medically redshirted/not doing much this year) at hand.

So now, our OLB depth chart is as follows: LOLB-1) Willis 2) Peppers 3) Gilbert
ROLB-1) Elliot 2) Barwin/Elvis 3) Fackrell. Keion is stashed on the P-Squad and developed. Clay can now be restructured/extended to match his play (or lack thereof) over the past few seasons and moved inside permanently. Connor/Elvis and Julius can be used as the subpackage interior pass rushers/have their snap counts be monitored to keep them fresh and highly productive. Willis just needs to set the edge well in the run game consistently and everything else he will learn from the vets. Elliot gets to show his worth, Fackrell can continue to develop/be a core ST guy along with Jayrone. We now have the juice/athleticism/diversity in the LB core to have a 45-50 sack defense.


So, the question is, Option 1-or Option 2? And if it is Option 1-then WTF is up with Ted?!?!? Because we could have easily had Option 1. It wouldn't have been that different from Option 2 nor that hard to pull off.

Honestly in that scenario I probably just stick with our current situation. I like what we did with the secondary with king and jones along with bringing back house. Perry and CM3 are a good combo IF HEALTHY. I realize it's a big if but they are a good starting point. I know there is little faith in Fackrell around here but I have some optimism. Fackrell, Beigel, and Elliot are good backups but th fear is if one or god forbid two are forced to start and play a large amount of snaps. That's where Dumervil or my preference Barwin would have given us great depth and piece of mind. I also really thing Ted is betting on much more pressure from the DL. With daniels, a an ascending Clark and Lowry, along with the rookie Adams rotating in with Ringo and RJF. Very good depth to keep guys fresh compared to past years and put more pressure up the middle and not rely solely on the edge pass rush. I really don't think our pass rush will be a disaster but obviously would have loved some more depth and security.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Honestly in that scenario I probably just stick with our current situation. I like what we did with the secondary with king and jones along with bringing back house. Perry and CM3 are a good combo IF HEALTHY. I realize it's a big if but they are a good starting point. I know there is little faith in Fackrell around here but I have some optimism. Fackrell, Beigel, and Elliot are good backups but th fear is if one or god forbid two are forced to start and play a large amount of snaps. That's where Dumervil or my preference Barwin would have given us great depth and piece of mind. I also really thing Ted is betting on much more pressure from the DL. With daniels, a an ascending Clark and Lowry, along with the rookie Adams rotating in with Ringo and RJF. Very good depth to keep guys fresh compared to past years and put more pressure up the middle and not rely solely on the edge pass rush. I really don't think our pass rush will be a disaster but obviously would have loved some more depth and security.

While it would be a huge benefit if the defensive line was capable of applying pressure on opposing quarterbacks there's no denying the outside linebackers are the most important pass rushers in a 3-4 defense. While the starters are rock solid there's not a single proven backup on the roster, making me extremely concerned about the position.

It's true that Thompson added some cornerbacks this offseason but there's still a lot of uncertainty about the talent level of the group.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think it is safe to conclude that the Packers 2017 Defense could be a top 15 group or be as inconsistent and unreliable as they were last year. I wouldn't want to be Vegas placing odds on the outcome.

It's all going to come down to health, development and a bit of luck.

 

[Dantés]

A different look at how the off-season could have went besides Option 2. Option 2 is what we stand at right now w/ FA & the draft.

My Option 1:

FA:

We start off by bringing back Julius. 2 years 10 million. He retires a Packer. With at least 1 SB ring. Nuff said, for now...

We let Datone walk. We bring back Jayrone at the same rate we did, but we also LET NICK WALK. He has shown to not be an elite, Top 3-5 EDGE rusher, so why pay him like one when the only thing he does really, really good is set the edge in the run game? Letting some other team give him a huge contract ends up being the cost-cutting move that we make this off-season. BTW, this move maybe allows us to decide to be more aggressive in getting closer to what the Lions threw at T.J. Lang to get him to go to Detroit.

We sign Connor Barwin or Elvis Dumervil. Same deal as JP. Now, we have replaced Datone w/ a more decorated vet that's proven he can get sacks. Upgrade. More on that later...

Everything else in the off-season goes as status quo (The TEs, House, etc.)...

DRAFT:

We trade out of the 1st, but instead of King we draft Jordan Willis. He steps in right away at starting LOLB. He is a stud, a rich man's Nick Perry with similar strength but 4.53 40 yard frickin' SPEED! WE NEED SPEED TO GET TO THE DAMN QB!

Instead of VB as the 1st pick in Rd 4, we draft CB Damontae Kazee out of San Diego State. Good man corner who also can play zone. Will push for the starting field corner spot/prolly still moves Randall to the slot with House as the starting boundary/Gunter being the top perimeter backup corner.

Instead of Mays w/ our first 7th-round pick, we get OLB Keion Adams out of Western Michigan. More speed to get to the damn QB...

Every other pick is status quo. 5 defensive guys, 5 offensive guys. Edge rushers that can contribute now and be impactful guys later. More balanced draft, and less pressure on each player given the circumstances (I think our draft looks bad if a) King is not a Day 1 starter at corner and b) Vince Biegel ends up being essentially medically redshirted/not doing much this year) at hand.

So now, our OLB depth chart is as follows: LOLB-1) Willis 2) Peppers 3) Gilbert
ROLB-1) Elliot 2) Barwin/Elvis 3) Fackrell. Keion is stashed on the P-Squad and developed. Clay can now be restructured/extended to match his play (or lack thereof) over the past few seasons and moved inside permanently. Connor/Elvis and Julius can be used as the subpackage interior pass rushers/have their snap counts be monitored to keep them fresh and highly productive. Willis just needs to set the edge well in the run game consistently and everything else he will learn from the vets. Elliot gets to show his worth, Fackrell can continue to develop/be a core ST guy along with Jayrone. We now have the juice/athleticism/diversity in the LB core to have a 45-50 sack defense.


So, the question is, Option 1-or Option 2? And if it is Option 1-then WTF is up with Ted?!?!? Because we could have easily had Option 1. It wouldn't have been that different from Option 2 nor that hard to pull off.

One thousand times option 2.

A couple questions.

Nick Perry was one of the most productive edge rushers in the league last season, so why are you claiming that all he does well is set the edge? Perry's average on his deal is actually currently slated to be 8th among edge rushers, and will certainly move down the charts as more top end edge players come due for a second deal. The money was appropriate to a pass rusher of his age and ability who has some durability issues.

How do we know that Kazee is a good man corner? He played almost exclusively zone in Rocky Long's 3-3-5. Early word out of Atlanta is that they're moving him to safety.

But yeah, I would wayyyy rather have Perry, Matthews, Fackrell, Elliott, and Biegel plus King over Peppers, Willis, Barwin, Elliott, and Fackrell plus Kazee. In that first group, you've got the best edge rusher of the bunch by far in his prime, plus one of the best athletes at corner to come out in years. In the latter, you're relying too heavily on a 37 year old and a rookie, while adding a DB that probably won't even stick at corner.

 

[pizzle]

One thousand times option 2.

A couple questions.

Nick Perry was one of the most productive edge rushers in the league last season, so why are you claiming that all he does well is set the edge? Perry's average on his deal is actually currently slated to be 8th among edge rushers, and will certainly move down the charts as more top end edge players come due for a second deal. The money was appropriate to a pass rusher of his age and ability who has some durability issues.

How do we know that Kazee is a good man corner? He played almost exclusively zone in Rocky Long's 3-3-5. Early word out of Atlanta is that they're moving him to safety.

But yeah, I would wayyyy rather have Perry, Matthews, Fackrell, Elliott, and Biegel plus King over Peppers, Willis, Barwin, Elliott, and Fackrell plus Kazee. In that first group, you've got the best edge rusher of the bunch by far in his prime, plus one of the best athletes at corner to come out in years. In the latter, you're relying too heavily on a 37 year old and a rookie, while adding a DB that probably won't even stick at corner.

My answers to your "questions"...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-top-25-pass-rushers/

Nick is listed at #19. The guy at #20-Jerry Hughes for the Bills-actually had a higher PFF pass-rusher grade. So I guess Nick got the nod due to his sack total for the season, which to me is what ****** me off so much about Nick's year. He reaches double-digit sacks in a prove-it contract year and now all of a sudden he's Reggie White. SMH...

Look at Hughes' production since 2012 vs Nick's production. Not even close. Nick is a one-hit wonder right now but being paid like a top EDGE rusher, which he isn't-yet.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-the-nfls-15-best-pass-rushers-in-the-2016-season/

By many accounts, he's not a Top 15 EDGE rusher. So I could care less that his contract has him as the 8th-highest paid guy and will likely drop once other guys get paid. If it was my call, I wouldn't have broken the bank to keep him. Period. Give me a cheaper, younger guy that runs 4.53 in the 40 and has a slew of moves as a pass rusher instead of a plodder who really only has a bull-rush to get to the QB any day.

Watching tape on Kazee showed me he could play the corner position. I like how he mirrors wideouts. He also can make plays on the ball well.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/damontae-kazee?id=2558184

There are different ways to play man technique as a defensive back. Man coverage isn't just bump-and-run, my friend. Also, we drafted Randall out of ASU as a safety that we used as a corner mostly. So what if ATL plays Kazee as a safety primarily? Different teams need different things in their scheme, that doesn't mean that we wouldn't have used him as a corner in our scheme/he doesn't have the skills/traits to play corner for us had we drafted him.

Furthermore, claiming Julius FRIGGIN Peppers is just a 37 YO is a joke. The guy is an athletic wonder, who does conditioning drills in the off-season with DBs as proclaimed by Mike McCarthy himself. He's a HOFer. And a gamer. And someone who has shown alot more consistent production than one Nick Perry. Nick has playoff sacks. That's really about it as far as I'm concerned. Option 1 gives us WAAAY MORE depth and versatility/flexibility. Option 2 has us relying on a oft-injured, inconsistent, overpaid player who has only shown good production over the course of one season since 2012. That's not a smart proposition.

P.S. In Option 1-you still have CM3. He's just giving you 5-7 sacks from inside, instead of outside, which actually diversifies the pass rush even more/makes offenses have to adjust to our scheme more. But I guess that's not important. What's important is paying our USC alumni top dollar to play pro ball in Wisconsin, regardless of if that helps Aaron get more rings. *Long sigh*...

 

[Dantés]

My answers to your "questions"...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-top-25-pass-rushers/

Nick is listed at #19. The guy at #20-Jerry Hughes for the Bills-actually had a higher PFF pass-rusher grade. So I guess Nick got the nod due to his sack total for the season, which to me is what ****** me off so much about Nick's year. He reaches double-digit sacks in a prove-it contract year and now all of a sudden he's Reggie White. SMH...

Look at Hughes' production since 2012 vs Nick's production. Not even close. Nick is a one-hit wonder right now but being paid like a top EDGE rusher, which he isn't-yet.


By many accounts, he's not a Top 15 EDGE rusher. So I could care less that his contract has him as the 8th-highest paid guy and will likely drop once other guys get paid. If it was my call, I wouldn't have broken the bank to keep him. Period. Give me a cheaper, younger guy that runs 4.53 in the 40 and has a slew of moves as a pass rusher instead of a plodder who really only has a bull-rush to get to the QB any day.

Watching tape on Kazee showed me he could play the corner position. I like how he mirrors wideouts. He also can make plays on the ball well.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/damontae-kazee?id=2558184

There are different ways to play man technique as a defensive back. Man coverage isn't just bump-and-run, my friend. Also, we drafted Randall out of ASU as a safety that we used as a corner mostly. So what if ATL plays Kazee as a safety primarily? Different teams need different things in their scheme, that doesn't mean that we wouldn't have used him as a corner in our scheme/he doesn't have the skills/traits to play corner for us had we drafted him.

Furthermore, claiming Julius FRIGGIN Peppers is just a 37 YO is a joke. The guy is an athletic wonder, who does conditioning drills in the off-season with DBs as proclaimed by Mike McCarthy himself. He's a HOFer. And a gamer. And someone who has shown alot more consistent production than one Nick Perry. Nick has playoff sacks. That's really about it as far as I'm concerned. Option 1 gives us WAAAY MORE depth and versatility/flexibility. Option 2 has us relying on a oft-injured, inconsistent, overpaid player who has only shown good production over the course of one season since 2012. That's not a smart proposition.

P.S. In Option 1-you still have CM3. He's just giving you 5-7 sacks from inside, instead of outside, which actually diversifies the pass rush even more/makes offenses have to adjust to our scheme more. But I guess that's not important. What's important is paying our USC alumni top dollar to play pro ball in Wisconsin, regardless of if that helps Aaron get more rings. *Long sigh*...

That list isn't just edge rushers, it's the entire league. He's 11th among the edge guys and obviously more valuable at his age than some of the older players ahead of him who will be dropping off over the life of this new deal. No one said he's Reggie White. The risk/reward with Perry has always been obvious. He's been good to great when healthy, and oft injured. The risk is baked into his contract. A guy with a similar skill set but more durability like Olivier Vernon got far more money. The risk of letting a top edge rusher like him walk without a replacement is far greater. And if that list is what you're basing your opinion on, then where is Peppers on it? I thought he was supposed to have shown a lot more consistent production than Perry? But it's bad to base this on sack production? I'm having trouble keeping up with the contradictions.

Willis is of course an amazing athlete. So is Perry. You call him a plodder, but you're misinformed. He ran a 4.64 at 270 lbs. His jumps were both above the 90th%. He's an extremely explosive athlete.

You can project Kazee to whatever you want. He was a zone corner in college. I don't care what you thought of his tape-- calling him a man corner is false. That's not what SDSU runs. If you want to project a short, slow zone corner, whose current team is projecting him to safety, to man in Capers' defense, that's your business.

Option 2 is far and away the best choice.

 

[Poppa San]

Clay can now be restructured

And if Clay decides he doesn't want to restructure?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Nick is listed at #19. The guy at #20-Jerry Hughes for the Bills-actually had a higher PFF pass-rusher grade. So I guess Nick got the nod due to his sack total for the season, which to me is what ****** me off so much about Nick's year. He reaches double-digit sacks in a prove-it contract year and now all of a sudden he's Reggie White. SMH...

There hasn't been a single post comparing Perry to Reggie White but there's no reason to ignore Perry is a productive pass rusher when healthy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And if Clay decides he doesn't want to restructure?

If in 2017 we see the 2015 and 2016 version of CMIII......bye bye..no dead cap and save $11.4M

If somehow he returns to his old form.......one more big year in 2018 to further prove himself.

Had TT been a bit more active in Free Agency in regards to OLB, I could see Clay being cut this year before the final 53, saving the Packers around $10.6 M. However, unless 1-2 guys really step up, TT has basically put the Packers in a position to pay Clay and keep him on the 53.

 

[Poppa San]

If in 2017 we see the 2015 and 2016 version of CMIII......bye bye..no dead cap and save $11.4M

If somehow he returns to his old form.......one more big year in 2018 to further prove himself.

Had TT been a bit more active in Free Agency in regards to OLB, I could see Clay being cut this year before the final 53, saving the Packers around $10.6 M. However, unless 1-2 guys really step up, TT has basically put the Packers in a position to pay Clay and keep him on the 53.

My point was that posters assume that players WANT to restructure also. Nobody knows if Russ/Ted already approached Clay about a restructure. All we have been informed of is Clay is still laboring under the same contract terms he has had for years.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My point was that posters assume that players WANT to restructure also. Nobody knows if Russ/Ted already approached Clay about a restructure. All we have been informed of is Clay is still laboring under the same contract terms he has had for years.

Got ya.

My best guess is Clay is not eager or in any hurry to restructure, especially after what TT didn't do in the offseason, make him expendable. Nope, Clay is sitting back in the catbird's seat now, saying "You think your defense can survive without me?"

If Clay is still around for 2018, than he might be more motivated to restructure, but as the events have currently played out, he is smiling all the way to the bank.

 

[brandon2348]

A different look at how the off-season could have went besides Option 2. Option 2 is what we stand at right now w/ FA & the draft.

My Option 1:

FA:

We start off by bringing back Julius. 2 years 10 million. He retires a Packer. With at least 1 SB ring. Nuff said, for now...

We let Datone walk. We bring back Jayrone at the same rate we did, but we also LET NICK WALK. He has shown to not be an elite, Top 3-5 EDGE rusher, so why pay him like one when the only thing he does really, really good is set the edge in the run game? Letting some other team give him a huge contract ends up being the cost-cutting move that we make this off-season. BTW, this move maybe allows us to decide to be more aggressive in getting closer to what the Lions threw at T.J. Lang to get him to go to Detroit.

We sign Connor Barwin or Elvis Dumervil. Same deal as JP. Now, we have replaced Datone w/ a more decorated vet that's proven he can get sacks. Upgrade. More on that later...

Everything else in the off-season goes as status quo (The TEs, House, etc.)...

DRAFT:

We trade out of the 1st, but instead of King we draft Jordan Willis. He steps in right away at starting LOLB. He is a stud, a rich man's Nick Perry with similar strength but 4.53 40 yard frickin' SPEED! WE NEED SPEED TO GET TO THE DAMN QB!

Instead of VB as the 1st pick in Rd 4, we draft CB Damontae Kazee out of San Diego State. Good man corner who also can play zone. Will push for the starting field corner spot/prolly still moves Randall to the slot with House as the starting boundary/Gunter being the top perimeter backup corner.

Instead of Mays w/ our first 7th-round pick, we get OLB Keion Adams out of Western Michigan. More speed to get to the damn QB...

Every other pick is status quo. 5 defensive guys, 5 offensive guys. Edge rushers that can contribute now and be impactful guys later. More balanced draft, and less pressure on each player given the circumstances (I think our draft looks bad if a) King is not a Day 1 starter at corner and b) Vince Biegel ends up being essentially medically redshirted/not doing much this year) at hand.

So now, our OLB depth chart is as follows: LOLB-1) Willis 2) Peppers 3) Gilbert
ROLB-1) Elliot 2) Barwin/Elvis 3) Fackrell. Keion is stashed on the P-Squad and developed. Clay can now be restructured/extended to match his play (or lack thereof) over the past few seasons and moved inside permanently. Connor/Elvis and Julius can be used as the subpackage interior pass rushers/have their snap counts be monitored to keep them fresh and highly productive. Willis just needs to set the edge well in the run game consistently and everything else he will learn from the vets. Elliot gets to show his worth, Fackrell can continue to develop/be a core ST guy along with Jayrone. We now have the juice/athleticism/diversity in the LB core to have a 45-50 sack defense.


So, the question is, Option 1-or Option 2? And if it is Option 1-then WTF is up with Ted?!?!? Because we could have easily had Option 1. It wouldn't have been that different from Option 2 nor that hard to pull off.

In my perfect world they would of signed Barwin and Mo Claiborne and Keep Perry like they did and trade back like they did and draft Willis and then trade back up in front of Bengals to take Mixon. Then I agree Kazee would of been a nice 4th round pick up or gambling on Carl Lawson instead of Beigel. I'm fine with letting Hyde, Peppers and Jones go.

They could of even still have signed House too so we would be set with a bigger corner to handle bigger receivers.

My only problem with all this is now I'm really excited about Josh Jones so wouldn't want to give him back.

 

[Dantés]

Got ya.

My best guess is Clay is not eager or in any hurry to restructure, especially after what TT didn't do in the offseason, make him expendable. Nope, Clay is sitting back in the catbird's seat now, saying "You think your defense can survive without me?"

If Clay is still around for 2018, than he might be more motivated to restructure, but as the events have currently played out, he is smiling all the way to the bank.

Yeah there is no incentive to him restricturing. And no point, anyways. They don't need more cap space, and there's no one to spend it on.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah there is no incentive to him restricturing. And no point, anyways. They don't need more cap space, and there's no one to spend it on.

Agreed in no incentive for Clay at this point. The Packers would have an incentive, $10.6 M. However, the problem now is who do they sign to replace Clay and his potential? I'm not saying resigning Julius as well as Barwin or Dumervil would have been a guaranteed fix to the OLB position, but had the Packers done that, Clay would have possibly been expendable if they wanted to save the money. I haven't seen the salary on Dumervil, but combined Barwin and Peppers are at $7 M. If Elvis signed for similar money, the Packers could have signed all 3 for the price of Clay. IMO, the defense would have been stronger with those 3 VS Clay alone.

My hope is we see the old #52 back, playing for his contract life. Because if this was 2018, there is no way I would keep him around for $11.4 M.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah there is no incentive to him restricturing. And no point, anyways. They don't need more cap space, and there's no one to spend it on.

While the Packers currently have sufficient cap space there's always a point in restructuring the contract of an underperforming player as the cap space gained could be used to either extend the team's own players or bring in free agents from other clubs in the future.

 

[pizzle]

In my perfect world they would of signed Barwin and Mo Claiborne and Keep Perry like they did and trade back like they did and draft Willis and then trade back up in front of Bengals to take Mixon. Then I agree Kazee would of been a nice 4th round pick up or gambling on Carl Lawson instead of Beigel. I'm fine with letting Hyde, Peppers and Jones go.

They could of even still have signed House too so we would be set with a bigger corner to handle bigger receivers.

My only problem with all this is now I'm really excited about Josh Jones so wouldn't want to give him back.

Here's how the draft might have went under your scenario:

1st pick(33)-Jordan Willis
2nd pick(46)-Joe Mixon
3rd pick(93)-Montravious Adams
4th pick(108)-Damontae Kazee
5th pick(134)-Desmond King
6th pick(175)-DeAngelo Yancey
7th pick(212)-Kofi Amichia
8th pick(238)-Jack Tocho
9th pick(247)-Malachi Dupree

I think in order to jump back into the second round high enough to get Mixon, we would have had to give up the 61st and 182nd (5th round compensatory) picks. Also, we wouldn't have gotten 3 running backs as a result. We would have gotten 3 DBs, not only Kazee but King out of Iowa(Micah Hyde-esque player) and Tocho out of N.C. State instead of Josh Jones. I actually like this draft better, because I think that having Willis and Mixon with the potential of the 3 DBs would be worth not getting King, Jones, and the 3 RBs we got. Especially if it only meant being able to select just 1 less player.

I wouldn't have wanted Claiborne, but maybe he would have done well in our scheme if healthy. Who knows...

This is all semantics now though. Ted wanted to get a redo of the 2015 draft IMO, and that's what he did. King and Biegel better be studs sooner than later, I guess...

 

[brandon2348]

I wouldn't have wanted Claiborne, but maybe he would have done well in our scheme if healthy. Who knows...
.

Claiborne wasn't my first choice either but I believe he would be a good scheme fit and would be closer to replacing Sam Shields then anyone on our current roster. Issue with Claiborne is staying healthy so it would of been a gamble but a cheap one at that.

 

[Dantés]

While the Packers currently have sufficient cap space there's always a point in restructuring the contract of an underperforming player as the cap space gained could be used to either extend the team's own players or bring in free agents from other clubs in the future.

I guess that's true if you're talking about a straight salary reduction. But oftentimes, these restructures mean a smaller cap hit in the present in exchange for an extension of guarantees. That's not always beneficial. I'd much rather leave CMIII at his current number than do a restructure that saves a little space now, but commits us to him financially further into his old age.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I guess that's true if you're talking about a straight salary reduction. But oftentimes, these restructures mean a smaller cap got in the present in exchange for an extension of guarantees. That's not always beneficial. I'd much rather leave CMIII at his current number than do a restructure that saves a little space now, but commits us to him financially further into his old age.

The Packers could and probably should have tried to restructure Matthews' contract in a way that would not have only reduced his 2017 cap hit but the average salary per season as well.

 

[Dantés]

The Packers could and probably should have tried to restructure Matthews' contract in a way that would not have only reduced his 2017 cap hit but the average salary per season as well.

Perhaps. I'm not convinced it would have made any difference. They had/have all the money they need(ed) to do whatever they want(ed).

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Perhaps. I'm not convinced it would have made any difference. They had/have all the money they need(ed) to do whatever they want(ed).

I believe that even for a team having sufficient cap space it isn't a smart way to handle business overpaying for underperforming players, especially as franchises are allowed to roll over money into the following season.

 

[Dantés]

I believe that even for a team having sufficient cap space it isn't a smart way to handle business overpaying for underperforming players, especially as franchises are allowed to roll over money into the following season.

It seems pretty innocuous to me. Hard to say what the smart play is there. Maybe they don't want the reputation of being a franchise that's always nickel and diming guys whether they need to or not. I don't know. I don't have strong enough feelings on the matter to argue too strongly. Perhaps you're right.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Matthews is on the final 53 and has a great year and earns the $10.6M that would have been saved by cutting him, TT will look real smart. However, if he has an average to below average year, TT will take a deserved hit on why he kept Clay around and didn't do anything but draft Biegel. If that scenario happens, I see no (sane) way that Clay is a Packer in 2018 without a complete restructure of his contract.

But given the current roster, I don't see how you now can justify releasing CMIII, unless one or more of our current OLB's really step up their game(s) or a quality vet OLB is picked up along the way.

 

[Mondio]

It's not an easy situation. Nobody knows really. Clay is still young enough and "can" be explosive enough to make a difference and earn his money. If he has 10 sacks this year and stays healthy, i'm good. He's capable and anytime you sign a guy to a contract, which you'll have to do at some point to keep anyone, you're taking a chance. We're stuck in a spot where a guy could be what we paid him to be or maybe he gets another injury that puts him at 60% for a lot of the season and we're wasting cash.

I would have liked Barwin, but he's not here, so that's that. We kind of have to roll with Matthews. He took one for the team, now it appears the team is ready to take one for Matthews for a season. He has every opportunity to get healthy and earn his contract this year, or if he follows it up like last year I really don't think he's on this roster anymore and FA and draft will be used to find his replacement.

 

[pizzle]

If Matthews is on the final 53 and has a great year and earns the $10.6M that would have been saved by cutting him, TT will look real smart. However, if he has an average to below average year, TT will take a deserved hit on why he kept Clay around and didn't do anything but draft Biegel. If that scenario happens, I see no (sane) way that Clay is a Packer in 2018 without a complete restructure of his contract.

But given the current roster, I don't see how you now can justify releasing CMIII, unless one or more of our current OLB's really step up their game(s) or a quality vet OLB is picked up along the way.

If TT doesn't add a vet OLB to the team and we end up with similar results defensively that keep us from the Super Bowl, I think Ted/Dom will both "step down". I expect Aaron to get an extension mid-season, but even if he does that/locks up Davante, it won't be enough for him to not feel the heat from how he has let the defense hold the offense back.