David Bakhtiari signs 4-year extension

[Heyjoe4]

Many of us figured we would not pay Lowry what his was due even this last season, let alone his next.

Many folks here believe we overpaid King by five million…

Turner is contracted still and I doubt he takes as little as some think, he would for sure find a role/job elsewhere. If Rodgers and Adams is gone I could see him have zero desire or willingness to take a reduction.

I don't see why Turner would take a cut. Other than his first year he's played well.

 

[tynimiller]

I don't see why Turner would take a cut. Other than his first year he's played well.

I only see Turner coming to that table discussion if Rodgers is still here.

 

[Half Empty]

Very important benefit of having a fhof qb...other players take less to play with him

Didn't we just have a player, another tackle, sign for nothing near "less"?

 

[thequick12]

Didn't we just have a player, another tackle, sign for nothing near "less"?

Its not the younger all pros who take less idk why youd expect bakh to take less...like I certainly dont expect Adams to take less...its the solid and older veteran players that do that the guys that are chasing championships

I could see Turner taking a paycut for one more chance to win a SB with Rodgers. Jordy Nelson was willing to take a pay cut as was Charles Woodson and Julius Peppers

 

[Half Empty]

Help me out here. First comes this, with no caveats.

HVery important benefit of having a fhof qb...other players take less to play with him

Then this, noting what appears to be an exception.

Didn't we just have a player, another tackle, sign for nothing near "less"?

Then this, which appears to tell me that Adams and Bahk don't conform to the original point because they're "younger" all-pros at the 8-9 year experience level?

Its not the younger all pros who take less idk why youd expect bakh to take less...like I certainly dont expect Adams to take less...its the solid and older veteran players that do that the guys that are chasing championships

Which part of this am I reading incorrectly?

 

[thequick12]

Help me out here. First comes this, with no caveats.

Then this, noting what appears to be an exception.

Then this, which appears to tell me that Adams and Bahk don't conform to the original point because they're "younger" all-pros at the 8-9 year experience level?

Which part of this am I reading incorrectly?

Very good detective but when did I say every player will taken less to play with a Rodgers or a Brady...???

Yes players at the level of Bakh and Adams, arguably best in the league at their positions, do not take less they get market value no matter their age...

Are you seriously trying to disagree and your position is that players havent take less to play with Favre, Manning, Brady, Rodgers ?

Because i dont read anywhere in your expose where I said "every" player takes less to play with a fhof qb

 

[Half Empty]

You're correct in that you didn't say every player.

Very good detective but when did I say every player will taken less to play with a Rodgers or a Brady...???

You're correct, no mention of every player. If you'd say some, or young, or less-than-all pro players, I would have even brought it up. However, you said

Very important benefit of having a fhof qb...other players take less to play with him

which doesn't indicate the specific exceptions you mention. Haven't had a conversation here before where the goalposts moved, so I wasn't looking for it.

Yes players at the level of Bakh and Adams, arguably best in the league at their positions, do not take less they get market value no matter their age...

Copy that. And, as before, if that had been part of the original contention...

Are you seriously trying to disagree and your position is that players havent take less to play with Favre, Manning, Brady, Rodgers ?

Exactly

Because i dont read anywhere in your expose where I said "every" player takes less to play with a fhof qb

As above...

 

[thequick12]

You're correct in that you didn't say every player.

You're correct, no mention of every player. If you'd say some, or young, or less-than-all pro players, I would have even brought it up. However, you said


which doesn't indicate the specific exceptions you mention. Haven't had a conversation here before where the goalposts moved, so I wasn't looking for it.


Copy that. And, as before, if that had been part of the original contention...


Exactly


As above...

You are saying goal posts moved but they did not I said, "other" players take less not "all other" or every other...why is it my fault that you incorrectly assumed that I ment to say all or every other player takes less?

Haha that doesnt make sense man...if you had a question on if that ment some other or every other player you could have asked...every other player certainly wasnt inferred in fact i believe in that context it is inferred that other players doesnt mean all other players. But i guess thats where the miscommunication was...

For more important things you dont think SOME players take less (i would notmally have just written "players") for the chance to play with a fhof qb?

Whether its to win a championship or to have a monster season to enable them to sign a big contract in the future it has happened plenty of times...

 

[KiDcUdI]

The Bak deal wasn’t bad at the time. You pay the best LT that kind of money for a reason. It’s just unfortunate he got hurt shortly after and never came back right. That’s why high profile players ask for so much in guarantees and why low profile players barely get anything in guarantees. It protects the player in case of injury and they h e the leverage to ask for it. It protects the team when a player doesn’t have that leverage. Is what it is.

I said all last year this cap crunch was going to be devastating and that the Packers needed to take some of their medicine last year and that was definitely doable. They shouldn’t have resigned King for starters. That was a lot of money for mediocre play and unavailability. They shouldn’t have resigned Lewis. Love the guy but at his age and what he does he wasn’t worth what he got past a 1 year deal. I doubt another team would have signed him at vet minimum. They shouldn’t have resigned Jones. I love Jones to death but you had Dillon already drafted high for a reason. Paying backs is always a mistake IMO. It’s essentially a 2 year deal and it was a bargain for those 2 years but we couldn’t afford it. I’d rather have Rodgers, Adams, and Dillon moving forward than Love, Lazard, and Jones. They should have cut Lowry. He’s a meh player. What they got out of him this year was solid but I don’t think it’s any different than what we could have gotten out of Slaton, Keke, and Lancaster when played to their strengths. They should have cut Turner. The dudes just not a good player. He had an ok 2nd year. I though his first year was awful and this past season was at its best average. He was really bad early in the season and late in the year.

You do all or even some of those things and we aren’t in such a bad position. You could have saved a ton of money eating a lot of dead cap last year and not caring so much of a void hit. Some people just see the 46 million over and aren’t even considering you probably have to add an additional 5 million for emergencies in case of a bad injury plagued season and another maybe 8ish for the rookie class. This team is going to be gutted badly this season even if we let Rodgers and Adams walk.

 

[thequick12]

The Bak deal wasn’t bad at the time. You pay the best LT that kind of money for a reason. It’s just unfortunate he got hurt shortly after and never came back right. That’s why high profile players ask for so much in guarantees and why low profile players barely get anything in guarantees. It protects the player in case of injury and they h e the leverage to ask for it. It protects the team when a player doesn’t have that leverage. Is what it is.

I said all last year this cap crunch was going to be devastating and that the Packers needed to take some of their medicine last year and that was definitely doable. They shouldn’t have resigned King for starters. That was a lot of money for mediocre play and unavailability. They shouldn’t have resigned Lewis. Love the guy but at his age and what he does he wasn’t worth what he got past a 1 year deal. I doubt another team would have signed him at vet minimum. They shouldn’t have resigned Jones. I love Jones to death but you had Dillon already drafted high for a reason. Paying backs is always a mistake IMO. It’s essentially a 2 year deal and it was a bargain for those 2 years but we couldn’t afford it. I’d rather have Rodgers, Adams, and Dillon moving forward than Love, Lazard, and Jones. They should have cut Lowry. He’s a meh player. What they got out of him this year was solid but I don’t think it’s any different than what we could have gotten out of Slaton, Keke, and Lancaster when played to their strengths. They should have cut Turner. The dudes just not a good player. He had an ok 2nd year. I though his first year was awful and this past season was at its best average. He was really bad early in the season and late in the year.

You do all or even some of those things and we aren’t in such a bad position. You could have saved a ton of money eating a lot of dead cap last year and not caring so much of a void hit. Some people just see the 46 million over and aren’t even considering you probably have to add an additional 5 million for emergencies in case of a bad injury plagued season and another maybe 8ish for the rookie class. This team is going to be gutted badly this season even if we let Rodgers and Adams walk.

Well the good thing is they can still do a lot of those things this off season in order to keep Adams and Rodgers cuz id rather have Rodgers Adams Dillon and Jones

 

[rmontro]

Well the good thing is they can still do a lot of those things this off season in order to keep Adams and Rodgers cuz id rather have Rodgers Adams Dillon and Jones

Might as well make the playoffs the next couple of years before the bottom drops out.

 

[thequick12]

Might as well make the playoffs the next couple of years before the bottom drops out.

Haha right...if you sign Rodgers to a 4 year extension so he has 5 years remaining including 2022...and he plays 3 or 4 of those years and you win 2 super bowls wouldnt that be great!!! I think thats what they should be shooting for

 

[Half Empty]

Haha right...if you sign Rodgers to a 4 year extension so he has 5 years remaining including 2022...and he plays 3 or 4 of those years and you win 2 super bowls wouldnt that be great!!! I think thats what they should be shooting for

Darn, I thought that's what they were shooting for the last decade.

 

[thequick12]

Darn, I thought that's what they were shooting for the last decade.

No i think theyve been first amd foremost shooting to be a perenial playoff team keep the seats full and the ticket, concession and fan shop prices rising and make as much money as possible but not necessarily win a super bowl

If youre all in to win the super bowl you offer obj more than the vet minimum becas you know hes a difference maker someone the defense has to oay attention to

I could list numerous other moves you make if youre all in for a sb going back to ted thompson not acquiring randy moss and or tony gonzalez toward the end of the favre era

The year the packers won with favre they made an all in move aquiring bad moon rising mid season ish and they never lost a game with him on the team

 

[rmontro]

Haha right...if you sign Rodgers to a 4 year extension so he has 5 years remaining including 2022...and he plays 3 or 4 of those years and you win 2 super bowls wouldnt that be great!!! I think thats what they should be shooting for

Not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but just in case you're not:
With the state of the cap going forward, I don't really expect the Packers to contend seriously for a Super Bowl in the coming years. I really think the 2020-21 season was our last best chance to win a Super Bowl for awhile.

No i think theyve been first amd foremost shooting to be a perenial playoff team keep the seats full and the ticket, concession and fan shop prices rising and make as much money as possible but not necessarily win a super bowl

I feel like they've been shooting to be a playoff team to get into the dance, and then hope that one of those years you get hot at the right time and maybe win a Super Bowl. You have Aaron Rodgers after all. Since 2010 we've gotten into four NFC Championship Games. Who would expect to lose them all? Seems like you'd win one of them just out of dumb luck.

 

[AKCheese]

No i think theyve been first amd foremost shooting to be a perenial playoff team keep the seats full and the ticket, concession and fan shop prices rising and make as much money as possible but not necessarily win a super bowl

If youre all in to win the super bowl you offer obj more than the vet minimum becas you know hes a difference maker someone the defense has to oay attention to

I could list numerous other moves you make if youre all in for a sb going back to ted thompson not acquiring randy moss and or tony gonzalez toward the end of the favre era

The year the packers won with favre they made an all in move aquiring bad moon rising mid season ish and they never lost a game with him on the team

You mean the $500K of cap money Rodgers burned by refusing to sign a piece of paper could have been used to up the offer to OBJ?…. interesting… in any event… OBJ is going to the Super Bowl… so as Howie Mandel says “you Sir, made a very very good deal”

 

[OldSchool101]

Many of us figured we would not pay Lowry what his was due even this last season, let alone his next.

Many folks here believe we overpaid King by five million…

Turner is contracted still and I doubt he takes as little as some think, he would for sure find a role/job elsewhere. If Rodgers and Adams is gone I could see him have zero desire or willingness to take a reduction.

Well I did notice Billy has money we owe him spread over the decade.
I’m assuming those are added void years in there also. We are sunk $5m just to walk him, which I forgot. Obviously that’s a good reason to restructure. No way can we allow a $9m+ Hit though either.
As solid as he is.. they likely either walk him and eat his sunk spread over 3 years or restructure him a similar (around $7 mil per season) for a couple seasons more.
What we saw this year is Billy is not our only option at RG or RT. I’d like to see Nijman at RT for cheap cheap. I don’t think Turner is that much better than Nijman and he’ll cost 3X

 

[thequick12]

Not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but just in case you're not:
With the state of the cap going forward, I don't really expect the Packers to contend seriously for a Super Bowl in the coming years. I really think the 2020-21 season was our last best chance to win a Super Bowl for awhile.


I feel like they've been shooting to be a playoff team to get into the dance, and then hope that one of those years you get hot at the right time and maybe win a Super Bowl. You have Aaron Rodgers after all. Since 2010 we've gotten into four NFC Championship Games. Who would expect to lose them all? Seems like you'd win one of them just out of dumb luck.

Not sarcastic at all...

Im dead serious. I dont think people understand how much the salary cap is gonna go up for 2023 and beyond

The packers will be able to keep nearly all of their core players by extending Rodgers and Jaire Alexander while restructuring some other guys. They will absolutely be a SB contender in 2022. And if they can draft another real deal wr that makes the impact justin jefferson and jamarr chase did in back to back seasons...they will be SB favorites

Extending Rodgers alone is going to eliminate half of that 40 million cap deficit...

 

[thequick12]

Well I did notice Billy has money we owe him spread over the decade.
I’m assuming those are added void years in there also. We are sunk $5m just to walk him, which I forgot. Obviously that’s a good reason to restructure. No way can we allow a $9m+ Hit though either.
As solid as he is.. they likely either walk him and eat his sunk spread over 3 years or restructure him a similar (around $7 mil per season) for a couple seasons more.
What we saw this year is Billy is not our only option at RG or RT. I’d like to see Nijman at RT for cheap cheap. I don’t think Turner is that much better than Nijman and he’ll cost 3X

Billy turner is a very solid valuable back up player...if hes starting you're probably not as good as you could be as hes an average to below average starter at tackle and an average starter at guard

 

[thequick12]

You mean the $500K of cap money Rodgers burned by refusing to sign a piece of paper could have been used to up the offer to OBJ?…. interesting… in any event… OBJ is going to the Super Bowl… so as Howie Mandel says “you Sir, made a very very good deal”

The Packers did not technically need Rodgers signature to do a simple restructure on his base salary and a roster bonus last off season...they chose not to because they didnt want to further alienate him

They did it to Zadarius Smith and a number of other high profile players...Smith was the only one to say publicly he was upset about it...because the Packers chose to pay the money auto restructed into signing bonus out weekly over the course of the season instead of in a lump sum ala a signing bonus

So you cant really blame Rodgers for burning 500k of salary cap space...thats certainly not the reason they didnt spring for OBJ...they had the room to add him easily...to me it seems they just took the stance that obj should be happy were offering him the opportunity to play here

In which case theyre not reading the temperature of the employer employee relationship culture in this day and age. It is no longer you better be happy to work here, there has been a clear shift to no mfer, you better be happy that i choose to work for you. And i get the nfl is more immune to that shift than Mcdonalds, but theyre not entirely immune

 

[Schultz]

Haha right...if you sign Rodgers to a 4 year extension so he has 5 years remaining including 2022...and he plays 3 or 4 of those years and you win 2 super bowls wouldnt that be great!!! I think thats what they should be shooting for

So now they are going to win 2 super bowls with a less talented roster than they won 0 super bowls with?

 

[rmontro]

The packers will be able to keep nearly all of their core players by extending Rodgers and Jaire Alexander while restructuring some other guys. They will absolutely be a SB contender in 2022.

Great, I can get my hopes up again for nothing.

 

[tynimiller]

The Packers did not technically need Rodgers signature to do a simple restructure on his base salary and a roster bonus last off season...they chose not to because they didnt want to further alienate him

They did it to Zadarius Smith and a number of other high profile players...Smith was the only one to say publicly he was upset about it...because the Packers chose to pay the money auto restructed into signing bonus out weekly over the course of the season instead of in a lump sum ala a signing bonus

So you cant really blame Rodgers for burning 500k of salary cap space...thats certainly not the reason they didnt spring for OBJ...they had the room to add him easily...to me it seems they just took the stance that obj should be happy were offering him the opportunity to play here

In which case theyre not reading the temperature of the employer employee relationship culture in this day and age. It is no longer you better be happy to work here, there has been a clear shift to no mfer, you better be happy that i choose to work for you. And i get the nfl is more immune to that shift than Mcdonalds, but theyre not entirely immune

Z wanted that long term deal in the off season and was even posting openly he wanted to retire with the Packers…

…part of me wonders if he knew about his back all along and wanted to do the deal so bad because of that. Packers not doing it may be a massive health bullet they dodged.

 

[OldSchool101]

Great, I can get my hopes up again for nothing.

The part we forgot to mention is we would likely become the worst cap scenario in the league. IdC who’s magical at moving $ such as Russ. The debt doesn’t disappear it has to be reconciled with reality.

Now I do believe there can be a methodical alleviation of our debt as it stands in relation to positional strength. Hitting on players like Rasul or Campbell help. Contracts like Bakhtiari and Zadarius are ultimately sinkers because they don’t seem to align with the injury factor. Those concepts also don’t account for recent illness protocols

Personally, I’d rather have my resources spread more evenly in the compensation area. QB is the only position which I see as an obvious exception. Aside from that only a game wrecker like a Watt or Mack or Garrett type guy in their prime. There’s only a handful in that category on the entire league in any given year. Bak and J’aire and Z’ and Tae? those guys fall a tier beneath that imo. Don’t get me wrong they are very good, but not 25-30mil good. Ironically those elite level contracts put us in a bind whereas we are even contemplating Rodgers. That should’ve never even been a discussion. His position outweighed about 4-5 of those guys. Bak is the only other player that comes close because he supports our primary focus, which should be to keep #12 upright.

The nice thing that 2021 proved (once again) for me was we can still Win without paying non essential players “Over the Top” type salaries. In 2022 we had to rely on ST to Win.. that was problemo Uno and it was a direct result of the failure to spread resources more evenly. You should NEVER dismiss an entire phase of the game.

 

[sschind]

Not sarcastic at all...

Im dead serious. I dont think people understand how much the salary cap is gonna go up for 2023 and beyond

The packers will be able to keep nearly all of their core players by extending Rodgers and Jaire Alexander while restructuring some other guys. They will absolutely be a SB contender in 2022. And if they can draft another real deal wr that makes the impact justin jefferson and jamarr chase did in back to back seasons...they will be SB favorites

Extending Rodgers alone is going to eliminate half of that 40 million cap deficit...

But you know how much it is going to go up? For the most part I agree with you but its a huge gamble and you are acting like its not a big deal. Push it all out and the rising cap will take care of it. Either way we are likely to be in for a down year or two at least after Rodgers leaves. If we can keep Rodgers around for another 3-4 years and compete for the SB I say do it. If it means losing a chance on Love so be it, there will be another Jordan Love in 2 years. If its all done to keep Rodgers through 2022 only then I say no its not worth it. Move him now and get some assets. If we have him for 3 more years and he retires we just traded any assets we might get for the chance to be competitive for those years. Its a fair trade I think.