Rush push stud n dud

[milani]

MM had no offensive plan the last few years. Especially pass routes. And he did not do very well in Dallas. I don't know why anyone would want him back.

Probably just let the players play and give press conferences.

 

[chemist]

I certainly am not advocating for bringing back McCarthy. And maybe I am being alarmist or over-reactionary...but part of me is getting similar feelings with LaFleur right now as we had towards the end of the McCarthy era...

With McCarthy, you had a great offensive mind who had TONS of success. But he didn't change/adapt quickly enough, and by the end his offenses were so incredibly stale/predictable that it felt like everyone - in the crowd, watching on TV, playing defense, etc - everyone always knew what was coming. Many times it would seem our only saving grace was Rodgers cooking up his own play at the line lol.
And then you had just shocking situational football/game management. Braindead clock management, bewildering time out usage, just a general lack of awareness of the game-state and context.
We consistently had awful special teams, and seemed to have a tendency to hang on far too long to underperforming players or coaches.
And perhaps worst of all, by the end, it felt like he had totally lost the locker room. Players were no longer bought-in, there was no belief left, it was done.

Now I am not saying it's anywhere close to that level with LaFleur. But I guess the anxious part of me is seeing some cracks.
It feels like the offense is extremely stale right now and LaFleur hasn't been able to adapt or keep up. To his credit I think some of that is largely limited by the personnel at his disposal (or at least LaFleur FEELS like he is limited by his personnel), but even still it's felt like - not just this year - like opponents have started to "figure out" LaFleur's offense and he's not really changed enough to stay ahead.
His situational football and game management is also...not good. Frequently it feels like he has no idea what the game-state is, it's always a toss-up between when to be aggressive vs conservative, when to go for it or not, when to use time outs, how to manage 2-minute drills, etc...
Special teams remain terrible, and he has kept on backing Bisaccia (and others) for longer than they arguably deserve...
And I don't think the locker room is "lost" by any means, but hearing guys like Jacobs and etc talking about how they didn't understand the late game call(s)...they're not exactly throwing Matt under the bus but aren't putting themselves in front of the wheels, either...

As some people like to say, NFL stands for "Not For Long." The league moves fast and you have to adapt to keep up or you will quickly get left behind. Like I said, I don't think it's anywhere near at the same level yet, but there's some similarities enough to at least activate my Spidey-Sense....

 

[chemist]

A well thought out and pretty much a thorough analysis on the current state of the green bay packers.
The past few years ive felt MLF just doesnt have a handle on how to run this team properly and make the most of all the talent we have.
He is not a bad guy but he is hampered by his stubborness and his control freak attitude that he has to do everything.
He cant call plays and manage the game situation at the same time. He is not good at doing both jobs and thus we have those miscues occuring, especially at critical moments. Calling plays requires total concentration on your play chart because you need to have something ready to go every 20 sec or so. Theres no time to give any thought to what the current game situation requires. Thats why ive advocated he give up calling plays and just stand back and focus on managing the overall game, thinking ahead about possible situations that may arise and what strategies one should use in each case. Stay ahead of the curve especially near the end of the half and when time is running down near the end of the game.
Thats what we need right now on game day A leader who leads and is prepared to employ the proper well thought out strategy as each situation arises.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Your description of the TD the eagles scored is correct, but so what! Our D gave up 1 TD and 1 FG. In this league I would call that a great performance. Our D is fine its the offense that is lacking. Its herky jerky, hap-hazard,inconsistent. There is no rhythm, no continuity, no discipline. Whoever is advising, teaching,and guiding the offense in practice and on game day is not doing a good job. The packers have a ton talent but its being masked by poor leadership.

Without that TD we win 7-3...GREAT Defenses and GREAT defensive performances don't lose games

 

[milani]

Well, if MM is the coach we do not have to point fingers after a game. We already know. Love would probably start calling his own plays.

 

[chemist]

Without that TD we win 7-3...GREAT Defenses and GREAT defensive performances don't lose games

You can drill down as far as you want on the eagles game. Both defenses played very well so if you are going to take away the eagles TD then to be fair you have to take away the GB TD and we lose 3-0.
It was the lack of offense that cost us this game, not the Def.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Studs: the entire D. To lose and play THAT well hurts.

Duds: oline ole ole ole ole ole oleeeeee oleeeee Aaron Banks...amongst others.

Big turning point here compounded with mass injuries spells a different team than expected... not by any means anything more than wild card for sure. This upcoming schedule is absolute brutality. Kraft gone really is hampering the offense. Please find a center. Jenkins gone too. Love is capable of revving this engine but the play calling has been so milktoast. Tough sleddin but could see a fun run but I cannot expect anything more than 9 wins. Too beat up.

 

[milani]

Studs: the entire D. To lose and play THAT well hurts.

Duds: oline ole ole ole ole ole oleeeeee oleeeee Aaron Banks...amongst others.

Big turning point here compounded with mass injuries spells a different team than expected... not by any means anything more than wild card for sure. This upcoming schedule is absolute brutality. Kraft gone really is hampering the offense. Please find a center. Jenkins gone too. Love is capable of revving this engine but the play calling has been so milktoast. Tough sleddin but could see a fun run but I cannot expect anything more than 9 wins. Too beat up.

I am afraid...you are right!

 

[tynimiller]

Okay I finally went back and watched the All22 a couple times with a good cigar or two and here are my attempts at Studs and Duds:

STUDS
Our Tackles - Tom and Walker - these two had IMO a near perfect night in Pass Pro and are two of the largest reasons I think MLF has to just turn this offense into an air attack style...we have the QB to do it and the sous chefs along the line to give him time. LET LOVE COOK, these dudes have his back.
Watson - Everyone is harping on the misread of the late ball he thought he had to play defense on, and for sure worthy to do so (he admitted as much) BUT I'm telling you this young man shifts our entire offense. He continues to prove he is fully capable of getting open with some finesse and not just athletic profile reasons. I begrudgingly admit, we cannot let Watson leave this team as of right now. As versatile and big play threat as I think Golden can grow into...Watson is absolutely the biggest field tilter we have, what he forces the defense to do no one else does.
Carrington Valentine - This young man is earning SOME MONEY in his future and we need to be thankful we have him cheap for one more year. He continues to stack solid outings after solid outings. Do we want him to be our CB1...likely no. But he is straight up playing excellent right now and is easily a CB2 on over half the league's teams and some like ours he would be the CB1. Why he barely got played after the first two weeks is something I will never understand...
*Honorable mention...Sorrell only got 7 snaps but folks 5 of those were AWESOME reps - two given tackles for stop (PFF- tackles which resulted in offensive failure...typically ones for barely any gain or a 3rd down stop forcing punt or turnover on downs).


DUDS
Aaron Banks - You have to give him the whole year, but many more games like this (he's already had some others) I wouldn't be shocked if the Aaron Banks experiment might find itself over before year 2. He just isn't playing good ball at all and if this continues and I'm Gute I'd be willing to move him for a conditional 2027 late Day3 pick which is insanely low value for a guy we risked a lot in but I'd want him out of here rather than here still.
Wicks/Melton - Drops both of them and they were chest hit type ones that boggle my mind (concentration an issue).
MLF - LET LOVE COOK...I know he likes to be creative and always trying to counter a counter...but just COOK.

 

[chemist]

Okay I finally went back and watched the All22 a couple times with a good cigar or two and here are my attempts at Studs and Duds:

STUDS
Our Tackles - Tom and Walker - these two had IMO a near perfect night in Pass Pro and are two of the largest reasons I think MLF has to just turn this offense into an air attack style...we have the QB to do it and the sous chefs along the line to give him time. LET LOVE COOK, these dudes have his back.
Watson - Everyone is harping on the misread of the late ball he thought he had to play defense on, and for sure worthy to do so (he admitted as much) BUT I'm telling you this young man shifts our entire offense. He continues to prove he is fully capable of getting open with some finesse and not just athletic profile reasons. I begrudgingly admit, we cannot let Watson leave this team as of right now. As versatile and big play threat as I think Golden can grow into...Watson is absolutely the biggest field tilter we have, what he forces the defense to do no one else does.
Carrington Valentine - This young man is earning SOME MONEY in his future and we need to be thankful we have him cheap for one more year. He continues to stack solid outings after solid outings. Do we want him to be our CB1...likely no. But he is straight up playing excellent right now and is easily a CB2 on over half the league's teams and some like ours he would be the CB1. Why he barely got played after the first two weeks is something I will never understand...
*Honorable mention...Sorrell only got 7 snaps but folks 5 of those were AWESOME reps - two given tackles for stop (PFF- tackles which resulted in offensive failure...typically ones for barely any gain or a 3rd down stop forcing punt or turnover on downs).


DUDS
Aaron Banks - You have to give him the whole year, but many more games like this (he's already had some others) I wouldn't be shocked if the Aaron Banks experiment might find itself over before year 2. He just isn't playing good ball at all and if this continues and I'm Gute I'd be willing to move him for a conditional 2027 late Day3 pick which is insanely low value for a guy we risked a lot in but I'd want him out of here rather than here still.
Wicks/Melton - Drops both of them and they were chest hit type ones that boggle my mind (concentration an issue).
MLF - LET LOVE COOK...I know he likes to be creative and always trying to counter a counter...but just COOK.

I feel we have hit our seasonal low after these past 2 weeks

A RAY OF HOPE.

The packers have several divional games coming up, meaning they control their own destiny. If they are good enough they will take advantage of this oppirtunity.
If they dont then I have to accept its just not their year.

 

[lambeaulambo]

AIR CORYELL!!

 

[OldSchool101]

Good points.

I don’t think this will be an easy game at all. Although the timing for a lesser opponent is perfect. This is a get right game. A Win puts us at 6-3-1 and buys us needed time to reformat our Offense.

I really feel that if Kraft had played all game he might’ve come up with another substantial late game play that either tied or gave us a lead. TE’s are super important in colder weather games. We lost BOTH a good blocker and good receiver. Really his loss was bigger than our single game team loss.

 

[chemist]

Good points.

I don’t think this will be an easy game at all. Although the timing for a lesser opponent is perfect. This is a get right game. A Win puts us at 6-3-1 and buys us needed time to reformat our Offense.

I really feel that if Kraft had played all game he might’ve come up with another substantial late game play that either tied or gave us a lead. TE’s are super important in colder weather games. We lost BOTH a good blocker and good receiver. Really his loss was bigger than our single game team loss.

I see that MLF has stated he has no intention of giving up play calling duties.
OK then, only 2 roads ahead.
Either his control freak personality will sink us, or he will become better at his job.

 

[gopkrs]

I see that MLF has stated he has no intention of giving up play calling duties.
OK then, only 2 roads ahead.
Either his control freak personality will sink us, or he will become better at his job.

If he keeps trying to run on 2nd down; I fear for the worst.

 

[chemist]

If he keeps trying to run on 2nd down; I fear for the worst.

Thats why i always liked the west coast offense that i believe the 49rs developed in the 80s those short quick crossing routes get the ball out quickly so sacks are kept to a minimum and you usually chew up 4 or 5 yds a pop. Tom brady made a living off of that, with wes welker on the receiving end.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

You can drill down as far as you want on the eagles game. Both defenses played very well so if you are going to take away the eagles TD then to be fair you have to take away the GB TD and we lose 3-0.
It was the lack of offense that cost us this game, not the Def.

This is the Packer forum...any comments about how well the Eagles did or did not play belong on the Eagles forum. We here are only concerned with what went right and what went wrong with the Green Bay Packers.

 

[chemist]

This is the Packer forum...any comments about how well the Eagles did or did not play belong on the Eagles forum. We here are only concerned with what went right and what went wrong with the Green Bay Packers.

I see, so now you want to go down a different road. Thats fine. Then I suggest you look at the play valentine made near the end of the game when hurts threw that deep ball to a j brown. If brown makes that catch the game is over. Instead valentine makes a spectacular block,WITHOUT DRAWNG A PI PENALTY, giving the packers a 2nd chance to at least tie the game.
So I go back to my original statement. The lack of offense cost us this game. Defense played great.

 

[Magooch]

If I recall correctly, this was the first game we had lost at Lambeau in holding an opponent to under 10 points since 1991

I was somewhat tough on them last week but at the end of the day it is very hard for me to levy too much criticism at the defense when we have three losses this year that would be wins if the offense could just manage two touchdowns. I don't think that is a huge ask....

 

[OldSchool101]

I see, so now you want to go down a different road. Thats fine. Then I suggest you look at the play valentine made near the end of the game when hurts threw that deep ball to a j brown. If brown makes that catch the game is over. Instead valentine makes a spectacular block,WITHOUT DRAWNG A PI PENALTY, giving the packers a 2nd chance to at least tie the game.
So I go back to my original statement. The lack of offense cost us this game. Defense played great.

I didn’t watch the game real time. I listened and tracked the play by play and gamecast. When I went back and watched it one thing I didn’t pick up on initially was how close Watson came to what would’ve been a TD or left us Goal to Go from inside the 5.
Now I’m not taking away from the Defender either but the ball was catchable, albeit not perfectly placed.

I’m not suggesting we got cheated or anything like that. However the point here is there were plays I believe we left on the field. Several opportunities in varying degrees of difficulty were all catchable but dropped by WR’s. These close games are always a couple of plays away from losing or winning.

1 Big miss like that is a loss in these low scoring games. I doubt anyone today is saying the Eagles are a bad team. Matter of fact most polls have them ranked #4. Yet the Packers once again bumbled around and tripped over themselves and STILL were in this game with a shot to win and 1:30 and timeouts. What would happen if we make a few small positive adjustments and an execute several critical plays better? We’d be at or above the Eagles. “How you lose” is next most important to “how you won”.

We’ve lost 3 total games this season by 9 points. Think about that. No opponents have beat GB by more than a FG and several of those game we either missed a FG or neglected to try a FG. 2 games were decided by a 49 yarder and 57 yarder. These aren’t blowouts but that’s what people are acting like. GB is nowhere close to out of the playoffs. That’s just talk.

 

[chemist]

I didn’t watch the game real time. I listened and tracked the play by play and gamecast. When I went back and watched it one thing I didn’t pick up on initially was how close Watson came to what would’ve been a TD or left us Goal to Go from inside the 5.
Now I’m not taking away from the Defender either but the ball was catchable, albeit not perfectly placed.

I’m not suggesting we got cheated or anything like that. However the point here is there were plays I believe we left on the field. Several opportunities in varying degrees of difficulty were all catchable but dropped by WR’s. These close games are always a couple of plays away from losing or winning.

1 Big miss like that is a loss in these low scoring games. I doubt anyone today is saying the Eagles are a bad team. Matter of fact most polls have them ranked #4. Yet the Packers once again bumbled around and tripped over themselves and STILL were in this game with a shot to win and 1:30 and timeouts. What would happen if we make a few small positive adjustments and an execute several critical plays better? We’d be at or above the Eagles. “How you lose” is next most important to “how you won”.

We’ve lost 3 total games this season by 9 points. Think about that. No opponents have beat GB by more than a FG and several of those game we either missed a FG or neglected to try a FG. 2 games were decided by a 49 yarder and 57 yarder. These aren’t blowouts but that’s what people are acting like. GB is nowhere close to out of the playoffs. That’s just talk.

Bumble around is the perfect term. The one that got me was the banks false start when wicks had a catch near the end zone. It went downhill from there on offense. To me this shows a lack of practice and discipline. And How could we have so many drops with passes perfectly thrown hitting the receivers chest. Dont they practice this stuff??

 

[OldSchool101]

Furthermore I’ll go on record to say that the bulk of non Green Bay fans want Green Bay to suffer. It’s almost a celebration when we lose because everyone is holding their breath that we could be that good. They refuse to get on board when Green Bay has a good Win. It’s always “but but I need to see more” Yet if The Packers lose to a team like Philly? It’s Oh they’re doomed!

IMO it’s because we’ve been very successful for a really long time. Also I think Rodgers really didn’t represent our team very well and many in the NFL community still see us as Aaron Rodgers team. We’ve beat ALOT of opponents across the last 30 years and there is much jealousy about the Packers drafting Love. They are praying he’s bad and any bad performance turns into we’re doomed. Love isn’t doomed he had a bad game. He’s proven to be a good QB and he’s in the middle of year 3. There’s a 80% chance Jordan Love has not had his best year yet. Mark my words they’ll be a season in the future where he’s MVP talk.

 

[chemist]

Furthermore I’ll go on record to say that the bulk of non Green Bay fans want Green Bay to suffer. It’s almost a celebration when we lose because everyone is holding their breath that we could be that good. They refuse to get on board when Green Bay has a good Win. It’s always “but but I need to see more” Yet if The Packers lose to a team like Philly? It’s Oh they’re doomed!

IMO it’s because we’ve been very successful for a really long time. Also I think Rodgers really didn’t represent our team very well and many in the NFL community still see us as Aaron Rodgers team. We’ve beat ALOT of opponents across the last 30 years and there is much jealousy about the Packers drafting Love. They are praying he’s bad and any bad performance turns into we’re doomed. Love isn’t doomed he had a bad game. He’s proven to be a good QB and he’s in the middle of year 3. There’s a 80% chance Jordan Love has not had his best year yet. Mark my words they’ll be a season in the future where he’s MVP talk.

Interesting point. My whole family are eagles fans and my son once said to me, with a touch of jealousy, how lucky the packers were to go from favre to rodgers and now roll right into Love without missing a beat.

 

[OldSchool101]

Bumble around is the perfect term. The one that got me was the banks false start when wicks had a catch near the end zone. It went downhill from there on offense. To me this shows a lack of practice and discipline. And How could we have so many drops with passes perfectly thrown hitting the receivers chest. Dont they practice this stuff??

Yes. As someone once told me you know you’re good when you’re tripping through the door and still above average. It’s like me in many College classes I’d hardly do any effort or I’d skip classes or miss an assignment and then I’d just absolutely do catchup and cram for 2 nights straight and still get a C grade! Now is a C good? No! But for someone that didn’t apply themselves it’s actually very respectable. I bumbled into a C grade!

THAT is the Green Bay Packers. They look absolutely miserable across the entire OL and they’re still a C grade. They’re waaaay below expectation but let’s be real we’re nowhere close to the bottom dweller overreaction crowd either. You’d think we had no chance to make playoffs. If we win Sunday? We’re a .650 record.

So imo and you can call me an optimist. Things can’t get much worse on Offense, but they can get much better. There’s really nowhere to go but up. THAT is why you keep grinding and drown the noise out. Keep listening and you’ll start believing what you hear.
As long as this Defense keeps causing problems for opponents we’re going to win some games

 

[OldSchool101]

Also another point. I don’t want struggles. Yet if you gave me a choice to have a top 5-7 offense and our Defense struggles or a top 5-7 Defense and our Offense struggles? I’ll choose Offense struggling. Especially with a Coach that is more versed in Offense. Heck I know for a fact he talks to Shannahan and McVay and their Posse in season and they don’t advertise it. Yet I’ve heard Matt on occasion refer to conversations.
Not on specifics but they give each other generic advice he’s alluded to it before. That’s another advantage. That group of guys are tighter than we think. Like they break bread together and enjoy libations at each others weddings together tight.

Matt LaFleur isn’t perfect he goes through stuff like well do. Imo he will improve and I think this has been an eye opener for him and our Coach is a fighter imo. I’m not giving up on LaFleur over a few bad games. Anyone can support people when things are going good that’s common level stuff. If I wanted that I’d just join the media and blow around like a Reed in a Strong Wind.

 

[chemist]

Also another point. I don’t want struggles. Yet if you gave me a choice to have a top 5-7 offense and our Defense struggles or a top 5-7 Defense and our Offense struggles? I’ll choose Offense struggling. Especially with a Coach that is more versed in Offense. Heck I know for a fact he talks to Shannahan and McVay and their Posse in season and they don’t advertise it. Yet I’ve heard Matt on occasion refer to conversations.
Not on specifics but they give each other generic advice he’s alluded to it before. That’s another advantage. That group of guys are tighter than we think. Like they break bread together and enjoy libations at each others weddings together tight. Matt will improve I think this has been an eye opener for him and our Coach is a fighter imo.

Agree. We all know what the reverse is like. We had that all thru the rodgers era and ever since 2011 didnt have a SB appearance. Now we have the Love era with a solid defense. Just need the offense to get in gear.