Rush push stud n dud

Magooch

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I doubt it
I don't have really any insider knowledge or evidence to support it but I've heard for a while now that Stenavich is more or less just considered the OC "on paper" or "in name only" and little more than that.

Also, perhaps there are some good examples to speak otherwise, but it doesn't exactly instill confidence in me that our "OC" is a guy who has spent his entire coaching career as an offensive line coach before part-timing a season to work with the run game and being made OC the next season. Maybe that is position-prejudiced (lol) but I dunno...
 

King of Jeans

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I'm gonna pop back in here to remind anyone who thinks our D was a STUD of one thing.

That wasn't a scoop and score, or a Pick 6 the Eagles got their TD on. They rammed it down the D's throat when the D needed a stop. Failures at every level of the team.
Yes you're right that was one of the worst plays I've seen all season. The defender just watched the ball go past his head into the receivers hands
 

Magooch

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I don't have really any insider knowledge or evidence to support it but I've heard for a while now that Stenavich is more or less just considered the OC "on paper" or "in name only" and little more than that.

Also, perhaps there are some good examples to speak otherwise, but it doesn't exactly instill confidence in me that our "OC" is a guy who has spent his entire coaching career as an offensive line coach before part-timing a season to work with the run game and being made OC the next season. Maybe that is position-prejudiced (lol) but I dunno...
Also in this regard though it's kind of sad/ironic all-around.

We've moved a guy who was previously a really good OL coach to OC, and now our OL stinks AND our offensive playcalling stinks

We bring in a guy who is thought to be a great special teams coach, promote him to assistant head coach...and now our special teams stink and nobody has any idea what exactly our assistant HC does to benefit our head coach.

We have a player who is a great return man who wants to be CB1 and not a return man. So we make him a full-time CB and now our corners stink and we immediately declined in the return game.

It's just like...all across the board we've had these moves and swaps we've made and I feel like just about every one of them has resulted us being worse at each given position/etc than we were prior to making said move, lol
 

Pugger

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I agree. However, if you are including the 4th and 1 as a "bad play" by Jacobs, that CF of a play was NOT on him. It was doomed from the start, Philly knew it was coming and then all of our blockers crapped the bed to boot. There isn't an NFL RB present or past, that would have done any better with that play and the fumble was inconsequential since it was 4th down.
I was actually thinking of that play in the final minute of the game when he ran inside and Love threw to him in the flat. Had they been on the same page there was grass before him to run.
 

Zartan

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The blame is many peoples fault on the offense. Love with the dumb fumble and MLF not adjusting the offense at all.
 

gopkrs

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Also in this regard though it's kind of sad/ironic all-around.

We've moved a guy who was previously a really good OL coach to OC, and now our OL stinks AND our offensive playcalling stinks

We bring in a guy who is thought to be a great special teams coach, promote him to assistant head coach...and now our special teams stink and nobody has any idea what exactly our assistant HC does to benefit our head coach.

We have a player who is a great return man who wants to be CB1 and not a return man. So we make him a full-time CB and now our corners stink and we immediately declined in the return game.

It's just like...all across the board we've had these moves and swaps we've made and I feel like just about every one of them has resulted us being worse at each given position/etc than we were prior to making said move, lol
Except I see no reason why Nixon can't return kickoffs
 

gopkrs

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I was actually thinking of that play in the final minute of the game when he ran inside and Love threw to him in the flat. Had they been on the same page there was grass before him to run.
That was on Jacobs imho. Although there was sooo much room, Jordan could have put a whole lot of air under it to the outside and see if Jacobs could get his bearings
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Adam Stenavich is the OC, not MLF. he creates the game plan and scripted list during the week. MLF calls them, but his staff draws up the game plan.

The Stenavich situation is a bit like Bisaccia in my book and an internal problem in Green Bay with what they do with coaches. He replaced Campen in 2019, who was a damn good OL coach for 11 years. Under Stenavich, I would say the Packers OL was good, but nothing I would call outstanding. Still they didn't want to lose him to another team, so they added "run game coordinator" to his title in 2021. Probably came with a pay bump as well. A year later in 2022, again didn't want to lose him, so they bump him up another notch to "offensive coordinator" and give Luke Butkus the OL coaching job. That means this is his 4th year as an OC that doesn't call the plays, but has a function with helping MLF draw up plays. Seeing the similarity with Bisaccia?

Something to note, Campen ended up taking a higher rung job with Cleveland, where he was the "associate HC and OL coach". That lasted a year and he went back to only coaching the OL for the Chargers, Texans and Panthers.

I guess my point is this. When you have a positional coach that is doing a really good job, why is it necessary to promote them to a job that they might not be cut out for? Or throw in another task, with their original job and now you have diluted their coaching where they once excelled. This isn't just MLF, McCarthy did it too. For all I know every team does it, but it sure doesn't seem like a successful formula in GB. If you offer them more pay to stay in their original position and they won't take it, let them go.

As much as I don't want to see MLF calling plays, I don't want that job to go to Stenavich either. Bring in an outside guy, one with a completely new perspective on the team and players.
 

chemist

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I'm gonna pop back in here to remind anyone who thinks our D was a STUD of one thing.

That wasn't a scoop and score, or a Pick 6 the Eagles got their TD on. They rammed it down the D's throat when the D needed a stop. Failures at every level of the team.
Your description of the TD the eagles scored is correct, but so what! Our D gave up 1 TD and 1 FG. In this league I would call that a great performance. Our D is fine its the offense that is lacking. Its herky jerky, hap-hazard,inconsistent. There is no rhythm, no continuity, no discipline. Whoever is advising, teaching,and guiding the offense in practice and on game day is not doing a good job. The packers have a ton talent but its being masked by poor leadership.
 

gopkrs

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The Stenavich situation is a bit like Bisaccia in my book and an internal problem in Green Bay with what they do with coaches. He replaced Campen in 2019, who was a damn good OL coach for 11 years. Under Stenavich, I would say the Packers OL was good, but nothing I would call outstanding. Still they didn't want to lose him to another team, so they added "run game coordinator" to his title in 2021. Probably came with a pay bump as well. A year later in 2022, again didn't want to lose him, so they bump him up another notch to "offensive coordinator" and give Luke Butkus the OL coaching job. That means this is his 4th year as an OC that doesn't call the plays, but has a function with helping MLF draw up plays. Seeing the similarity with Bisaccia?

Something to note, Campen ended up taking a higher rung job with Cleveland, where he was the "associate HC and OL coach". That lasted a year and he went back to only coaching the OL for the Chargers, Texans and Panthers.

I guess my point is this. When you have a positional coach that is doing a really good job, why is it necessary to promote them to a job that they might not be cut out for? Or throw in another task, with their original job and now you have diluted their coaching where they once excelled. This isn't just MLF, McCarthy did it too. For all I know every team does it, but it sure doesn't seem like a successful formula in GB. If you offer them more pay to stay in their original position and they won't take it, let them go.

As much as I don't want to see MLF calling plays, I don't want that job to go to Stenavich either. Bring in an outside guy, one with a completely new perspective on the team and players.
It's called The Peter's Principle. And I think Stenovich came right from being a college player
 

Pokerbrat2000

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It's called The Peter's Principle. And I think Stenovich came right from being a college player
Joe Whitt Jr. was another one of the Packers "Peter Principle" coached. Some here though he'd be a good DC for the Pack. Personally, I didn't think he was even a very good DB coach.

Anyway, sounds like he's about to get whacked as the Commanders DC.

 

pacmaniac

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I mean you're right but he's better than MLF. MM chokes but at least can coach an explosive offense
It's a pretty small sample size, but MM had his QB school where he developed Rodgers. Matt Flynn also played well under MM. Maybe he could get the most out of Love.
 
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gopkrs

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It's a pretty small sample size, but MM had his QB school where he developed Rodgers. Matt Flynn also played well under MM. Maybe he could get the most out of Love.
MM had no offensive plan the last few years. Especially pass routes. And he did not do very well in Dallas. I don't know why anyone would want him back.
 

Magooch

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I certainly am not advocating for bringing back McCarthy. And maybe I am being alarmist or over-reactionary...but part of me is getting similar feelings with LaFleur right now as we had towards the end of the McCarthy era...

With McCarthy, you had a great offensive mind who had TONS of success. But he didn't change/adapt quickly enough, and by the end his offenses were so incredibly stale/predictable that it felt like everyone - in the crowd, watching on TV, playing defense, etc - everyone always knew what was coming. Many times it would seem our only saving grace was Rodgers cooking up his own play at the line lol.
And then you had just shocking situational football/game management. Braindead clock management, bewildering time out usage, just a general lack of awareness of the game-state and context.
We consistently had awful special teams, and seemed to have a tendency to hang on far too long to underperforming players or coaches.
And perhaps worst of all, by the end, it felt like he had totally lost the locker room. Players were no longer bought-in, there was no belief left, it was done.

Now I am not saying it's anywhere close to that level with LaFleur. But I guess the anxious part of me is seeing some cracks.
It feels like the offense is extremely stale right now and LaFleur hasn't been able to adapt or keep up. To his credit I think some of that is largely limited by the personnel at his disposal (or at least LaFleur FEELS like he is limited by his personnel), but even still it's felt like - not just this year - like opponents have started to "figure out" LaFleur's offense and he's not really changed enough to stay ahead.
His situational football and game management is also...not good. Frequently it feels like he has no idea what the game-state is, it's always a toss-up between when to be aggressive vs conservative, when to go for it or not, when to use time outs, how to manage 2-minute drills, etc...
Special teams remain terrible, and he has kept on backing Bisaccia (and others) for longer than they arguably deserve...
And I don't think the locker room is "lost" by any means, but hearing guys like Jacobs and etc talking about how they didn't understand the late game call(s)...they're not exactly throwing Matt under the bus but aren't putting themselves in front of the wheels, either...

As some people like to say, NFL stands for "Not For Long." The league moves fast and you have to adapt to keep up or you will quickly get left behind. Like I said, I don't think it's anywhere near at the same level yet, but there's some similarities enough to at least activate my Spidey-Sense....
 

adambr2

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No real recommendations. I enjoy seeing all of the "fire everyone" rants and about how bad we suck. I don't want this to change.
There’s a reasonable middle ground between this and those who want everyone fired the minute anything goes wrong.

That’s the understanding that we can’t just willy nilly gut the whole thing every time we have a bad game, along with the understanding that 7 seasons is a pretty sufficient amount of time and the Parsons trade raised the bar of expectations, so it’s reasonable to ask the question of whether things have become stale and new voices and new directions are needed.
 

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