Bears Studs n Duds

[rmontro]

Well it's sad because MM was basically fired for his conservative coaching and now MLF is having the same problem. So probably wouldn't be

McCarthy wasn't a bad coach, he did win a Super Bowl after all. I feel like at this point in time, he's probably a little outdated, but I could be wrong.

 

[gopkrs]

imho McCarthy's offense got stagnant and he couldn't adjust. For at least two years.

 

[GB2016]

Rogers undermind MM the last few yrs... he did what he wanted. Changes plays at the line way too much.

 

[Packers4ever]

Maybe just read what you wrote a few times and see if it makes sense to you. Then highlight each single and different point that you are trying to make.

I got this out of it:

- Matt LaFleur is a "flower"

- There is a connection to Harlan and Harbaugh's agent

- Flower is selfish because.....

- Bad play caller, but thinks he is a good one?
- Bad HC
- Can't be a play caller and a HC
- No other major coaches do both
- Flower doesn't evolve

Did I miss anythingMaking fun of MLF name

 

[Packers4ever]

It makes sense to me I wrote it and from what you wrote it makes sense to you
I was making fun of MLF name cause he is a joke , looks like you missed that
Harbaugh's agent Harland is related to the old Packer president Bob Harlan ( if you know Packer history , you would know the relationship of Haurbaugh's agent with Packer president
Seems to me you know what I meant , so if you know what I meant I don't understand why the big deal , I could say you don't make sense in what you write sometimes but I don't
We are here to express how we feel about what the Packers have not done or should do , but your comments are out of line , I don't recall asking you how I should word my sentences

 

[milani]

I think the disastrous Hadl trade was Dan Devine's doing.

Certainly was. Devine should never have been our coach. Should and could have been Joe Paterno.

 

[milani]

imho McCarthy's offense got stagnant and he couldn't adjust. For at least two years.

MM had 12 years. In 2018 the team was not going to make the playoffs. And, yes, stagnancy abounded. Murphy realized we needed a change to try and elevate again. But had we snuck into the playoffs he may have been retained.

 

[Packers4ever]

Rogers undermind MM the last few yrs... he did what he wanted. Changes plays at the line way too much.

MLF with Rodgers went further in the playoffs than Love has, maybe Rodgers was into something that MLF was not that great at play caller
MLF was winning more under Rodgers , which Rodgers made MLF win alot of games . why MLF has such a winning record, since Love became the starter MLF record is not that great
just like Brady made Belichick , Brady leaves and Belichick is not that great

 

[Packers4ever]

MM had 12 years. In 2018 the team was not going to make the playoffs. And, yes, stagnancy abounded. Murphy realized we needed a change to try and elevate again. But had we snuck into the playoffs he may have been retained.

MM was stale and burned out, it took 12 years for this , In my opinion it has only taken 7 for MLF to get stale and burned out
MM won a super Bowl , so i will give him a break, what has MLF done , chokes in the playoffs and goes no where

 

[chemist]

MM was stale and burned out, it took 12 years for this , In my opinion it has only taken 7 for MLF to get stale and burned out
MM won a super Bowl , so i will give him a break, what has MLF done , chokes in the playoffs and goes no where

I read an article where several agents gave their opinion on the MLF saga. According to them money is not the issue that is holding up the talks, its the length of the extension MLF would get. They put MLF in the 13M 15M range , somewhat below the top tier HC's as far salary but they said GB needs to decide if they want him back or not. If they try to hedge their bets and not go all in on MLF they should just let him go and get whatever compensation they can get. They probably wont do that until they have a replacement. Halfley's name came up as a possible replacement for the GB HC job and the agents put his salary in the 7M range so they could save some money there.
Several players have come out in support of MLF and some "experts" like greg olsen have said MLF is a good HC who has won a lot of games in GB, averaging 10+ wins per season. That is true but IMO It totally misses the point. He doesnt win when it counts. He's had 7yrs here with a very poor playoff record. Thats not the kind of HC Im looking for. I dont want to continue like that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

MLF with Rodgers went further in the playoffs than Love has, maybe Rodgers was into something that MLF was not that great at play caller
MLF was winning more under Rodgers , which Rodgers made MLF win alot of games . why MLF has such a winning record, since Love became the starter MLF record is not that great
just like Brady made Belichick , Brady leaves and Belichick is not that great

Agree

I commented on this a few years ago. I believe that MLF and Rodgers butted heads at times. Rodgers calling his own plays and overriding MLF in the process. My theory is that once Rodgers was gone, MLF instilled in Love that he would need to listen to his coach and run plays as called by him. Now I am also guessing that as Love has shown better command of reading defenses, MLF has let up a bit on being OK with Jordan audibling out of his call. What has come out of that process is a QB that isn't quite as confident and cavalier as Rodgers is/was. If MLF is back and doesn't hand play calling duties off to another coach, he really needs to uncork Love and let him loose on more RPO's and trust that Jordan knows what he is doing.

Jordan's QBR of 72.9 was 2nd in the NFL behind Drake Maye. He also only threw 6 interceptions, which for a starting QB is a pretty impressive season.

 

[DoURant]

Maybe since we had 30 consecutive of HOF QB's with Favre and Rodgers at the controls, all those other Packers HC's records were inflated. Love is a pretty darn good QB, but not HOF/elite caliber at this point in his career. I'm still upset over that last game and I'm fine whether LaFleur stays or goes, but to say he sucks because his winning record was inflated because of Rodgers.... I don't know, any coaches record woukd have been. He still has a winning record with Jordan Love and Willis starting, and he's 3-3 in making the Playoffs without Rodgers. Do I want/expect more? You darn right I do, but word across the league, along w/Packers players, consensus says he doesn't suck as much as this forum does. Parsons said he accepted the reade here, because LaFleur was part of his decision process. I feel new leadership may bring better times, but it also might bring the 70s back to this franchise... I guess we will have to wait and see, I just hope we hear something in the near future, either way.

 

[OldSchool101]

While MLF has an impressive “overall” record, this league is all about what have you done lately?

Last season with Rodgers
8-9
Missed playoffs

1st season with Jordan
10-9 including 1-1 playoffs

2nd season with Jordan
11-7 including 0-1 playoffs

3rd season with Jordan
9-8-1 including 0-1 playoffs
most recently on a 5 Loss skid and humiliating Wildcard meltdown of Historic proportions.

If any team in the NFC North agreed to swapping HC’s I’d actually strongly consider any of them over Matt. Im not trying to be cruel I think he’s at best the 3rd best coach in our Division. Might even be argument Matt is 4 of 4 and I can’t stand Ben, but from a pure coaching perspective he’s clearly better.

 

[Packers4ever]

While MLF has an impressive “overall” record, this league is all about what have you done lately?

Last season with Rodgers
8-9
Missed playoffs

1st season with Jordan
10-9 including 1-1 playoffs

2nd season with Jordan
11-7 including 0-1 playoffs

3rd season with Jordan
9-8-1 including 0-1 playoffs
most recently on a 5 Loss skid and humiliating Wildcard meltdown of Historic proportions.

If any team in the NFC North agreed to swapping HC’s I’d actually strongly consider any of them over Matt. Im not trying to be cruel I think he’s at best the 3rd best coach in our Division. Might even be argument Matt is 4 of 4 and I can’t stand Ben, but from a pure coaching perspective he’s clearly better.

Ben totally out coached Matt , I have to agree that Matt is probably the worst coach in the NFC North
You are correct now a days is all about what you have done lately , Matt lost 5 straight games and the embarrassing loss to the Bears is enough for me to let him go , I dont think any coach with 7 years experienced should have allowed for this collapsed to happened
If Super Bowl winner Harbaugh was let go for less, why not let Matt go

 

[OldSchool101]

Ben totally out coached Matt , I have to agree that Matt is probably the worst coach in the NFC North
You are correct now a days is all about what you have done lately , Matt lost 5 straight games and the embarrassing loss to the Bears is enough for me to let him go , I dont think any coach with 7 years experienced should have allowed for this collapsed to happened
If Super Bowl winner Harbaugh was let go for less, why not let Matt go

I know it’s not realistic but a part of me wishes we could offer Matt a deal for 2 seasons that a final prove it contract. With a performance based team friendly “out” if he fails in year 1.
A $7.5mil base + $2.5mil for each playoff game we qualify and $20Mil ceiling for a SB Win. If he advances to a Divisional he buys 1 year. If he advances to a Championship 2 years, a SB visit 3yrs. Each year added would guarantee $20.0mil for that schedule.

Conversely, if we either do not qualify or we lose a Wildcard game etc..
He willingly gets his $7.5-$10mil and agrees to be traded.

This type deal would have him betting on himself. Unfortunately Matt is in a position of strength with all the vacant Head Coaching positions available.
If we don’t wrap him up in January he’s likely gone imo.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think the disastrous Hadl trade was Dan Devine's doing.

My bad, I believe you are correct Pugger. It certainly was a disastrous trade.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I know it’s not realistic but a part of me wishes we could offer Matt a deal for 2 seasons that a final prove it contract. With a performance based team friendly “out” if he fails in year 1.
A $7.5mil base + $2.5mil for each playoff game we qualify and $20Mil ceiling for a SB Win. If he advances to a Divisional he buys 1 year. If he advances to a Championship 2 years, a SB visit 3yrs. Each year added would guarantee $20.0mil for that schedule.

Conversely, if we either do not qualify or we lose a Wildcard game etc..
He willingly gets his $7.5-$10mil and agrees to be traded.

This type deal would have him betting on himself. Unfortunately Matt is in a position of strength with all the vacant Head Coaching positions available.
If we don’t wrap him up in January he’s likely gone imo.

Interesting thought experiment OS.

I'm with Packers4ever on this. Johnson just out-coached MLF, and it wasn't even close. The mistakes MLF made in the 2H were similar to the Denver game, going for a kill shot in the 2H, and being unable to adjust when that fails. MLF couldn't adjust to the Bears' 2H blitzing, even though it was obvious they were gonna do it.

I'm firmly on the fence as to MLF's future. The players love him, and firing him means everyone has to pick up a new game plan and a new style. Neither option makes me optimistic for the team's future - and that's a shame because when healthy, they have enough talent to go after a SB. And those windows close fast. And I'm not getting any younger.

And none of the retreads on the market, Harbaugh, Stenafski, others are very exciting. I'd rather see an up-and-coming talent, kinda like MLF when he was hired.

 

[rmontro]

Rogers undermind MM the last few yrs... he did what he wanted. Changes plays at the line way too much.

I actually thought that was a strength of the team, that Rodgers knew what would and wouldn't work and would change the play immediately if the defense called for it.

I hate to say this, since right now it's looking like GB is probably going to keep LaFleur, but maybe Rodgers made MLF look good for those three 13 win seasons. When Rodgers left, it seemed like a good thing that LaFleur was going to get to run the offense the way he wanted to, but maybe it hasn't been.

 

[milani]

My bad, I believe you are correct Pugger. It certainly was a disastrous trade.

The Packers front office was not much of a front after Lombardi left. We were so desperate for a QB because of the post Starr QBs. I.E. Don Horn, Scott Hunter, and Jerry Tagge. Hadley put up numbers back in the old AFL a decade earlier. The Packers post Lombardi were unable to find a Joe Namath or a Roger Staubach while at the same time could not build a team around one.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The Packers front office was not much of a front after Lombardi left. We were so desperate for a QB because of the post Starr QBs. I.E. Don Horn, Scott Hunter, and Jerry Tagge. Hadley put up numbers back in the old AFL a decade earlier. The Packers post Lombardi were unable to find a Joe Namath or a Roger Staubach while at the same time could not build a team around one.

It really was a desperation trade, and a bad one at that. If I remember, Hadl was in his early 30s, so his best days were behind him. That's what made that period between Lombardi and Holmgren so painful. That trade alone probably set the team back 3 to 4 years.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I actually thought that was a strength of the team, that Rodgers knew what would and wouldn't work and would change the play immediately if the defense called for it.

I hate to say this, since right now it's looking like GB is probably going to keep LaFleur, but maybe Rodgers made MLF look good for those three 13 win seasons. When Rodgers left, it seemed like a good thing that LaFleur was going to get to run the offense the way he wanted to, but maybe it hasn't been.

MLF does deserve credit for the relatively seamless transition from Rodgers to Love. I didn't think that was possible. But Love has improved each year as a starter. He's not flashy, but his stats and his maturity level have grown.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Ben totally out coached Matt , I have to agree that Matt is probably the worst coach in the NFC North
You are correct now a days is all about what you have done lately , Matt lost 5 straight games and the embarrassing loss to the Bears is enough for me to let him go , I dont think any coach with 7 years experienced should have allowed for this collapsed to happened
If Super Bowl winner Harbaugh was let go for less, why not let Matt go

I don't think many fans, myself included, would be disappointed if MLF left. But it comes with some problems. This is already a team with the talent to compete for a SB, a small window. Bringing in a new HC requires a lot of adjustments by everyone. There will be a learning curve.

It seems likley now that MLF will stay. That's fine - but his faults will need to be corrected - namely, being unable to make adjustments in game, and his horrible awareness of down and distance/clock management. Getting a delay of game penalty after a TO is unforgivable, even for a rookie coach.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I actually thought that was a strength of the team, that Rodgers knew what would and wouldn't work and would change the play immediately if the defense called for it.

I hate to say this, since right now it's looking like GB is probably going to keep LaFleur, but maybe Rodgers made MLF look good for those three 13 win seasons. When Rodgers left, it seemed like a good thing that LaFleur was going to get to run the offense the way he wanted to, but maybe it hasn't been.

I don't know if Rodgers undermined MM in MM's final years. They didn't seem to have much of a relationship. Very few QBs are as good at reading a defense as Rodgers. I expected a lot of audibles, and that's not a knock on MM.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I never thought I would dislike a North team as much as I have disliked the Vi-queens. But Ben Johnson and the Bears took the crown this year. Johnson made it personal. But he clearly outcoached MLF Saturday night. I look forward to the Packers sticking it to Johnson next season, and beyond.

Easier said than done of course, the Bears are legit. But Johnson has given the Packers a lifetime's worth of bulletin-board material. There will be no exuses for anything but an all out effort going forward to pummel Da Bearz.

 

[Pugger]

My bad, I believe you are correct Pugger. It certainly was a disastrous trade.

Yes. It took YEARS before we recovered from that mess.