Studs n duds Washington

Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
18,968
Reaction score
9,255
I liked it because it is true imho. But I'm not unhappy with Love. Just that he needs to change something on those deep passes. Trajectory or just more practice...I'm not sure. But Golden was open I think twice. I guess if Love hits one of them I'd be much happier. Both were very close. Just a little long. Better than short I'll have to say.
I agree. Although there were 2 passes I won’t fault him for. They were both overthrows. Yet the reason I liked them is Rookie Love would almost exclusively under thrown his Receivers (Similar to that one Golden Go target where Jordan was a hitch late and allowed the Defender to get back into the play).

Much of these long throw missed is a timing thing. One would expect timing issues to gradually clear up some as the season progresses. Between OL continuity being disturbed and just limited time so far with Golden, I think it’s more impacted early season.

That said Love has the arm as the longest 4 misses were between 1/2 Foot and 1 yard (3Ft) from being caught. The overthrows I’d expect more because it gives the Defense 0% chance to make a play. It’s our WR… or nobody.

PS. That nullified TD pass to Reed (while called back) was a thing of beauty. Right in the bread basket in a 45 yard pass
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
18,968
Reaction score
9,255
What I do like about the long throws is this.

1. When you are Winning and Defense is playing hot, you give yourself a chance to put away the game.

2. The greater the frequency of long balls the greater the timing improves. Much of that is getting a feel and a confident understanding for Golden’s speed against live competition. We already saw this come to fruition with Watson. Christian and Jordan were starting to make that connection and it takes a minute.

I think we will soon see with Matthew what we saw with Christian, once they start hooking up on a few longer throws they’ll be less frequent throws off target.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
17,450
Reaction score
7,349
Sorry, I'm not an Xs andOs guy. I thought the best receiver would be one who gets open, catches what's thrown his way, gets a lot of YAC, is tough to bring down, et. al. If it's the guy who can run more routes, I stand corrected.

It’s far more than that, but a lot of why Kraft gets open is due to the route structures of the play, he excels at precisely what you’d want from your TE - he seriously is likely going to be the next Kittle or such in prime. Krafts immense value is so incredibly valuable because of all the other things he does and brings, his blocking is next level both in technique and desire to…
 

Voyageur

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 10, 2021
Messages
4,134
Reaction score
3,750
Sorry, I'm not an Xs andOs guy. I thought the best receiver would be one who gets open, catches what's thrown his way, gets a lot of YAC, is tough to bring down, et. al. If it's the guy who can run more routes, I stand corrected.
You weren't wrong. It's all in how we each perceive the roles on the field. Your view is that you combine the two positions, I've always separated them in my mind so my expectations of each is realistic to what I believe they can do. In a way, it's being protective of the TEs because they usually have so many fewer opportunities to catch the ball in an offense, while they do more blocking and setting picks for the WRs.
 

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
6,924
Reaction score
2,123
It’s far more than that, but a lot of why Kraft gets open is due to the route structures of the play, he excels at precisely what you’d want from your TE - he seriously is likely going to be the next Kittle or such in prime. Krafts immense value is so incredibly valuable because of all the other things he does and brings, his blocking is next level both in technique and desire to…
I'm hoping he's more like Kelsey. All that punishment Kittle loves is coming to roost. Kelsey finds his holes and is like Timex.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
17,450
Reaction score
7,349
I'm hoping he's more like Kelsey. All that punishment Kittle loves is coming to roost. Kelsey finds his holes and is like Timex.
I hope he never is as bad as Kelce was for most of his career at blocking. Kelce is a Te body with a WR approach to the game
 

milani

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
6,490
Reaction score
2,983
It was disappointing to see so many infractions on ST against Washington. After the Detroit game I was hoping that was getting cleaned up. Holding on kicks/ punts isn't helping with field position.
And offensive holding on RUNNING plays.
 

milani

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
6,490
Reaction score
2,983
It’s far more than that, but a lot of why Kraft gets open is due to the route structures of the play, he excels at precisely what you’d want from your TE - he seriously is likely going to be the next Kittle or such in prime. Krafts immense value is so incredibly valuable because of all the other things he does and brings, his blocking is next level both in technique and desire to…
And if he becomes that threat defenses will have to account for him just like another wide out. The Lions two big gainer passes were to their TE, not their top receivers.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
17,450
Reaction score
7,349
And if he becomes that threat defenses will have to account for him just like another wide out. The Lions two big gainer passes were to their TE, not their top receivers.
Absolutely - Kraft will be that type of TE he could end up with one catch for nine yards or ten catches for 140 and both games he could be an absolute difference maker
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
17,450
Reaction score
7,349
I’ve watched the All22 and some not so discussed takeaways…

Belton will be a starter for sure. This man can block in many ways unlike many others. His strength in those hands is impressive, I’m sure many have seen some of the reps that exist where he pancake snap blocks a guy engaged with a neighbor OL without even thinking and reengages in his assignment all in one motion.

The issue we as a team are going to have is I think Belton if tackle is naturally better at RT…but that is a problem for next year and we don’t need to worry about it. He’s gonna be solid though IMO

Morgan is another, this dude is a pass blocking savant, he has growth to occur in run blocking for certain (just as Belton at times in pass blocking) but Morgan also was a mirror of protection, allowing two pressures but really I saw one.

If those two are what they seem, there is a real foundation for next years OL that should yet again keep Love clean for years to come.

Heath might very well be the most well rounded and capable WR5/6 in the league - just insanely good in nearly every rep.
 

Voyageur

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 10, 2021
Messages
4,134
Reaction score
3,750
I’ve watched the All22 and some not so discussed takeaways…

Belton will be a starter for sure. This man can block in many ways unlike many others. His strength in those hands is impressive, I’m sure many have seen some of the reps that exist where he pancake snap blocks a guy engaged with a neighbor OL without even thinking and reengages in his assignment all in one motion.

The issue we as a team are going to have is I think Belton if tackle is naturally better at RT…but that is a problem for next year and we don’t need to worry about it. He’s gonna be solid though IMO

Morgan is another, this dude is a pass blocking savant, he has growth to occur in run blocking for certain (just as Belton at times in pass blocking) but Morgan also was a mirror of protection, allowing two pressures but really I saw one.

If those two are what they seem, there is a real foundation for next years OL that should yet again keep Love clean for years to come.

Heath might very well be the most well rounded and capable WR5/6 in the league - just insanely good in nearly every rep.
Both these guys will be 10-year starters in the NFL. With the shorter contracts today, sadly we will probably lose one of them through free agency. That's why it's essential that Gute and his staff constantly scour the college ranks for players they can draft lower in the draft and know they've got potentially strong candidates to be part of the offensive line moving forward.
 

DoURant

Go Pack Go!
Joined
Mar 25, 2017
Messages
2,163
Reaction score
1,624
Location
Michigan
3. Belton struggled in pass protection, he will get better with experience, but we really missed Tom on the right side.
Watching the game live I saw pressure coming from the right side. I now believe those pressures may have been actually given up by Rhyan. Rhyan had a PFF pass blocking grade of 41.9, no other OL had a pass block grade under 66. I retract my #3 dud for the week.
 

Voyageur

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 10, 2021
Messages
4,134
Reaction score
3,750
Watching the game live I saw pressure coming from the right side. I now believe those pressures may have been actually given up by Rhyan. Rhyan had a PFF pass blocking grade of 41.9, no other OL had a pass block grade under 66. I retract my #3 dud for the week.
With the views we get on TV it's sometimes very deceiving. What appears to be a breakdown by one player is actually something totally different. We see this a lot of times where it appears a CB has been burned and don't see where a safety who was supposed to have coverage over the top on that receiver was out of position.
 

milani

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
6,490
Reaction score
2,983
I’ve watched the All22 and some not so discussed takeaways…

Belton will be a starter for sure. This man can block in many ways unlike many others. His strength in those hands is impressive, I’m sure many have seen some of the reps that exist where he pancake snap blocks a guy engaged with a neighbor OL without even thinking and reengages in his assignment all in one motion.

The issue we as a team are going to have is I think Belton if tackle is naturally better at RT…but that is a problem for next year and we don’t need to worry about it. He’s gonna be solid though IMO

Morgan is another, this dude is a pass blocking savant, he has growth to occur in run blocking for certain (just as Belton at times in pass blocking) but Morgan also was a mirror of protection, allowing two pressures but really I saw one.

If those two are what they seem, there is a real foundation for next years OL that should yet again keep Love clean for years to come.

Heath might very well be the most well rounded and capable WR5/6 in the league - just insanely good in nearly every rep.
The youth on the OL is strong. Where we have to coach them better is with the fundamentals which can result in penalties. When we go on the road we know how false starts can affect the success of the offense.
 

Thirteen Below

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 15, 2022
Messages
1,965
Reaction score
1,807
What I liked about that run after the catch was his putting his shoulder down and initiating contact. He's letting tacklers know who the real big dog is out there.
And in this context, "big" means truly big. The guy is roughly 260 pounds, which is 50-65 pounds bigger than the average NFL defensive back and about even with an LB (and on an individual basis, often 10-15 lbs heavier; which gives you some substantial opportunities in terms of matchups).

A lot of DBs are gonna say "ah, ****, here he comes" when they see Kraft get past the linebacker.


Even though he's early in his career, I think Kraft has developed into one of the best blocking TEs in the game. His ability to read where he's supposed to be in routes is improving every week. He's going to be an All Pro real soon.
I honestly don't recall any draft, by any team, any year, that compares to Gute's 2023 draft. 8 solid starters/rotational players - Van Ness, Musgrave, Kraft, Reed, Valentine, Brooks, Wooden, and Wicks. For most teams, they'd be doing somersaults to get that many starters in three drafts, and slappin' one another's ***** to get that many in two. The average percentage of NFL draft picks who become starter or rotational players is roughly 25-30%; Gute's 2023 hit rate is 114.3%.

114.3.%.... 8 players in a 7-round draft.

But wait - there's more!

Also in that third day, Green Bay scooped up Brenton Cox and Malik Heath as free agents, both of whom are playing significant or contributing roles right now wiith this team.

Factor that in, and by the end of Day Three, Gutekunst came away with 10 starting or contributing players in a 7-round draft, for a hit rate of 140%!!!

And this was just one year after drafting another eight starters (Walker, Wyatt, Watson, Tom, Rhyan, Doubs, Enagbare, and the other Walker), for a hit rate of 114%.

This is a master class in how you build a Super Bowl-caliber team in 3 years, when you consider that this was all a year before drafting what may turn out to be as many as 6 or 7 starters/rotational players in 24. This just doesn't happen.

But here we are.


Belton will be a starter for sure. This man can block in many ways unlike many others. His strength in those hands is impressive, I’m sure many have seen some of the reps that exist where he pancake snap blocks a guy engaged with a neighbor OL without even thinking and reengages in his assignment all in one motion.
I remember a couple of plays where I sat up straight and said, "Holy cow, who was that??" Couldn't immediately see the name or number, and then on the replay sat back and said, "whoa, that was Belton? The rookie?" Smooth, reactive, and in control... seemed to know exactly what to do at every stage of his engagement... no confusion, no hesitation, just "ok i'm gonna do this, now I'm gonna do that, and so on... ". Did not immediately look like a guy who was playing NCAA football just a few months ago.

I was a little curious about the pick at that time, but I get it now.


Both these guys will be 10-year starters in the NFL. With the shorter contracts today, sadly we will probably lose one of them through free agency. That's why it's essential that Gute and his staff constantly scour the college ranks for players they can draft lower in the draft and know they've got potentially strong candidates to be part of the offensive line moving forward.
Our hit rate at this position group is phenomenal the last several years. It used to be that the rest of the league looked to us as the quarterback factory; now it's more like the O-line pipeline.


Morgan is another, this dude is a pass blocking savant, he has growth to occur in run blocking for certain (just as Belton at times in pass blocking) but Morgan also was a mirror of protection, allowing two pressures but really I saw one.
I am really looking forward to seeing where Morgan is at by December as compared to September, because almost evey series of downs, I am more and more understanding why we took him where we did. Again, Green Bay just hits the jackpot on identifying and developing an offensive lineman. Is there another team in the NFL who does that better?


If those two are what they seem, there is a real foundation for next years OL that should yet again keep Love clean for years to come.
Until we draft and develop their replacements, and move them along for draft picks when their contracts come up. This top-heavy OL room is an awfully nice problem to have. That's a really, really good position group to be overstocked.

Of course, it can change fast with injuries. In a single week. But right now, we're looking very strong at O-line for the immediate future.


Heath might very well be the most well rounded and capable WR5/6 in the league - just insanely good in nearly every rep.
I've been crazy about Heath from the beginning, had very high hopes, and it's validating to me that you like the guy so much too. He's going to get some snaps in the next couple of weekends, and I'll be watching closely to see what he does with those opportunities. I'm rooting for him; I hope all this hard work the last several years finally comes to fruition. He's earned it.
 

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
9,362
Reaction score
3,427
Sorry, I'm not an Xs andOs guy. I thought the best receiver would be one who gets open, catches what's thrown his way, gets a lot of YAC, is tough to bring down, et. al. If it's the guy who can run more routes, I stand corrected.
Thanks HE. Geez I didn't expect what I thought was a non-controversial observation - that Kraft is the best receiver on the team - to create such a dustup. V correctly points out the differences between a TE and WR. It would have been better to simply comment on Kraft's early success receiving I guess. ****in eh..... Some people need to switch to decaf.

Ironically, he has a chance to be the leading receiver - in yards, TDs, or both. Not saying that is likely, just possible.

I hope in Reed's absence Golden gets more targets. He's always a TD threat - the timing between Love and Reed needs to improve, and it will. And with his hands, get him the ball in tighter windows an shorter routes.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
18,968
Reaction score
9,255
Even though he's early in his career, I think Kraft has developed into one of the best blocking TEs in the game. His ability to read where he's supposed to be in routes is improving every week. He's going to be an All Pro real soon.
One of the things Tucker is exceptional at is both blocking and receiving on the same play. He sells a block with the best of them and suddenly he’s 10 yards downfield running full tilt with the ball in his hands.

Very Krafty :coffee:
 
Top