Official studs and duds Viking game

[Pokerbrat2000]

Dexter Williams was inactive. Dexter is the smasher who generally wins on 3rd & short or goal. LaFleur is going to have to figure this one out.

You did see him play in preseason right? I really wouldn't be that comfortable with him running the ball on 3rd and short either, until he actually proves he is a solid NFL back.

I understand what you are saying, but I think that might be based on what he did at Notre Dame?

 

[tynimiller]

Studs:

Defense top to bottom.

Aaron Jones

*honorable mention to MVS. Everyone ******* on our WR corps, but is see tons of potential. Yes I'd love if we had a CLEAR #2 but I also love we have arguably 3 clear #3 level WRs. MVS was in the right spot a lot, and that catch (no catch as pushed out of bounds) was the best catch I've seen a Packer hold on to in a LONG TIME.


Duds:

Playcalling got way to passive in the middle part of game...let's learn to push the petal harder when opponent is on the ropes not set the cruise control.

Jaire Alexander's one play...that touchdown to Diggs happened solely because he went for pick instead of defending. Dude is a BEAST, but gotta know when to pick and choose when to try and snag or deflect.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

But still, we have a good defense too, and MN was pretty much running at will near the end of the game. thank God they passed the ball a few times. When we try that, it doesn't quite work.

I was holding my breath thinking that Zimmer would just keep running the ball and the Packer defense would be faced with having to stop 4 plays inside the 10 yard line to win the game. Cousins choosing to toss that ball up for grabs in the endzone and Kings great interception, made me turn to my buddy and say "Kirk Cutler has just left the field".

 

[Mondio]

Really? I saw it immediately and everyone in my section all started celebrating the fact we knew it would most likely be called. I will have to watch it again, but it sure didn't seem like it took them 5 minutes to get this right.



Not to bring this whole debate back to ground zero and start it up again, but I know that the refs will never get all the calls 100% correct, that is inherent in the game. However, the more calls that they can correct, especially when it involves a score, the better. Had this play happened at midfield, it probably doesn't get reviewed and we might not be talking about it, but that still doesn't make it a good thing that it was a missed call. But I don't buy the argument "they can't get them all right, so why even try to get any of the obvious ones reversed".

I do have a question for you. Did they get the call right? Was it offensive Pass Interference on Cook?

While we will never know, but had they not gotten that call correct and the rest of the game played out the same, Vikings are looking for a FG instead of a TD at the end, to win the game.

Did they get it right? i don't know, those plays happen all the time and they only call some of them. just like holding, hands to face, illegal contact, etc. There's letter of the rule and intent of the rule and they call it differently in all sorts of situations.

My concern is the integrity of the game. Bad calls weaken, i know that. Blown calls weaken it. BUT, I think evaluating refs on a whole and keeping them sharp is the best way. I've noticed a decline in officiating as they become more reliant on replay rather than their judgement to make a call. The "muffed" punt in Detroit last year by King is a prime example. Not a single ref saw him touch it, yet they all conferred and relied on replay that got it wrong.

But anyway, that's another topic too i guess. But now they limit it to "big" plays. Seems like a good way to have behind the scenes string pulling going on to influence outcomes and scores if you ask me. and for every big play, ever football player knows, it's the little things done all game long that matter just as much.

 

[Mondio]

Dexter Williams was inactive. Dexter is the smasher who generally wins on 3rd & short or goal. LaFleur is going to have to figure this one out.

he didn't show me anything in preseason to think he should be active over either RB we have, and it wasn't very close IMO.

 

[Ceodore]

Go to the Packers' website and watch the post game celebration in the locker room. It is very evident the players are very fond of our new "mediocre" HC.

Players liking the coach =/= a good coach. Rex Ryan was a player's coach too. Again far from issuing a final judgement on MLF, but thus far he doesn't appear to be an upgrade on MM.

Yes, I hear Rodgers took the blame for that.

At another point in the game we missed on converting a 3rd and short within FG range. It wasn't a gimme FG but it was within Crosby's range. MFL decided to go for it on 4th down and we got stuffed and turned the ball over on downs. I wasn't pleased that we passed on potential points seeing we hadn't done much since the first Q.

I didn't have a problem with the call before the result so I can't kill them after failing. Appreciated the aggressiveness. The run had been working decently. But boy was that a bad play call.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I know a lot of people are a bit down about the Packer offense after the 1st Q yesterday, but I saw a lot of positive things and have to give a lot of credit to a Viking defense that actually seemed to take a huge 1st Q punch to the gut and wake up. Despite not scoring any points, the Packer offense did do some good things and had it not been for a few fumbles, some dropped passes and some excellent plays by Minnesota DB's, I think we are talking about the Packer offense starting to hit its stride. I was mostly disappointed in the inability to pick up short yardage and the Packer TE's being virtually invisible.

This play by Rodgers was just classic Rodgers and had Smith not been right there ripping at Davante's arms, a big gain.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1173579592210223104

 

[AmishMafia]

Players liking the coach =/= a good coach. Rex Ryan was a player's coach too. Again far from issuing a final judgement on MLF, but thus far he doesn't appear to be an upgrade on MM.

You dont like what you have seen so far? The first 25 minutes or so looked very good. We screwed up the 3 pts based on down confusion, and another drive stopped because of a fumble. Thought the play designs were very creative. Play selection was not predictable. Both big improvements over MM. Execution was good, but not crisp. Thought Rodgers missed a couple out there. To me, i saw a lot to be excited about in only our 2nd game. And mind you, this was against a very good defense.

 

[mradtke66]

Did they get it right? i don't know, those plays happen all the time and they only call some of them. just like holding, hands to face, illegal contact, etc. There's letter of the rule and intent of the rule and they call it differently in all sorts of situations.

I'd say it was clear interference. The NFL officials Twitter had Cook highlighted. He looked like a fullback leading up in the hole on Savage. IMHO, clear and obvious OPI.

But anyway, that's another topic too i guess. But now they limit it to "big" plays. Seems like a good way to have behind the scenes string pulling going on to influence outcomes and scores if you ask me. and for every big play, ever football player knows, it's the little things done all game long that matter just as much.

This is the part I think some people get wrong, or at minimum, are communicating their grump poorly.

The league did not review the play due to OPI. This was caught during the "all scoring plays are reviewed" rule. So they reviewed the play, saw OPI and threw the metaphorical flag. This was a stated outcome when the rules committee presented the rule change to the owners.

I feel conflicted on this. It was pretty clear OPI to me, but the idea that a penalty can be throw after the fact is a little odd to me.

That said, this is already allowed for 12 men--flag can be thrown after the fact. That one is a little more cut and dried, but there is still an example of this basic procedure.

 

[Mondio]

There were definite signs of growth, coming together, getting on the same page, evolution, whatever you want to call it with this offense yesterday. I expect we'll continue to see more surges and piecing together longer bits of continuity every week.

 

[Mondio]

I'd say it was clear interference. The NFL officials Twitter had Cook highlighted. He looked like a fullback leading up in the hole on Savage. IMHO, clear and obvious OPI.



This is the part I think some people get wrong, or at minimum, are communicating their grump poorly.

The league did not review the play due to OPI. This was caught during the "all scoring plays are reviewed" rule. So they reviewed the play, saw OPI and threw the metaphorical flag. This was a stated outcome when the rules committee presented the rule change to the owners.

I feel conflicted on this. It was pretty clear OPI to me, but the idea that a penalty can be throw after the fact is a little odd to me.

That said, this is already allowed for 12 men--flag can be thrown after the fact. That one is a little more cut and dried, but there is still an example of this basic procedure.

i know they review all scoring plays, as if they're the only important ones. I like it better with officials on teh field with a keen eye and the stones to make a call. Move on. I was ready for a kick off and instead was still left waiting to find out what a ruling on a play they already let go was going to be. I don't like and they're only going to add more.

and I don't like how it could be perceived in the future as gambling is more and more entrenched in the sport.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Saying Geronimo is a liability out there is just wrong. imo. He tried for too much and fumbled. What, nobody fumbles in football? He gets open and has good hands. Unfortunately MVS does not seem to be able to get open much and he is playing where Geronimo is most effective. Ergo, MVS better step up his game.
Studs: Martinez, Clark, King, Adams, Jones

With the amount of ridiculous posts calling Rodgers a liability, I damn sure am entitled to call GMo a liability.

Ahman Green was also a liability when he was here with his fumble issues.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the guy as a RB and consider him to be maybe the greatest in Packer history. But he had some real fumble issues out there that showed up several times.

Problem is you're focusing too much on that part of my post. Notice I also gave him credit for his TD catch, and make no mistake, he can go up and get a few big catches. But his fumble was a big one.

A lot of people consider King a liability as well with his injuries and I'm certain 75℅ of this board jumped on him for giving up that TD. I for one think he should be given some measure of thanks for making the drive stopping and game saving pick.

 

[mradtke66]

i know they review all scoring plays, as if they're the only important ones. I like it better with officials on teh field with a keen eye and the stones to make a call. Move on. I was ready for a kick off and instead was still left waiting to find out what a ruling on a play they already let go was going to be. I don't like and they're only going to add more.

I hear two arguments or points.

One is the waiting part. I get being confused, because I was also quite confused when the replay was in progress, but I don't really mind waiting a little bit to get it right.

The second one, "officials on the the field with a keen eye," I'm more inclined to argue with.

I think some fairly important calls are missed in a game. That's not a rag on the refs. They are human and there are only so many of them on the field. Errors will occur, but continuous improvement and all that jazz. How do we reduce the number of errors?

To me, it seems simple. More eyes. So put more refs on the field. Add the replay booth. Do both. More cameras. Hell, integrate with a cloud AI/Machine learning platform and train it to help identify penalties and have replay cutups automatically spliced together on every play, just in case it's needed.

This approach is going to change the game, but change isn't necessarily bad.

and I don't like how it could be perceived in the future as gambling is more and more entrenched in the sport.

The counterpoint to that one is a single ref on the field could similarly influence a game. One could argue the league in NY is more insulated that the on-the-field ref.

Not saying I necessarily believe that (or do. Or not. I don't the I can give a black and white answer here) but it could be argued.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't like how it could be perceived in the future as gambling is more and more entrenched in the sport.

This is the part that I don't get. So you are inferring that calls are going to be changed in NY that better suit the gambling side of the game? I think THAT in itself would be gambling the whole integrity of the league. Also, if we are concerned about calls being made or not made to suit someones gambling, wouldn't you be concerned that one referee, who just laid a big wager on a game through a friend, could possibly influence the game even more than replay could?

 

[FaninColorado]

Everyone has made their Studs/Duds so won't add much more than this. Jimmy Graham was an absolute stud in New Orleans because the coaches put him into a position to take advantage of his skills and never see him blocking. Carroll in Seattle, MM and now MLF have all decided to try to make Jimmy Graham a blocking TE. That is such a failure as a head coach. When will MLF figure out that Graham will NEVER ever be a blocking TE. We have Mercedes Lewis on this roster to be the blocking TE while Graham is the pass catching TE until Tonyan and Jace kick both of them of the roster.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

You dont like what you have seen so far? The first 25 minutes or so looked very good. We screwed up the 3 pts based on down confusion, and another drive stopped because of a fumble. Thought the play designs were very creative. Play selection was not predictable. Both big improvements over MM. Execution was good, but not crisp. Thought Rodgers missed a couple out there. To me, i saw a lot to be excited about in only our 2nd game. And mind you, this was against a very good defense.

I think what's got people not liking LaFleur are bad challenge decisions he's made that at times look worse than McCarthy's. I don't know if that red flag he threw on the Thielen catch was one he did on his own instinct, or one that someone up in the booth told him to do, but whatever it was, so far he's made too very bad challenge decisions this season.

So far, those gambled timeouts haven't cost us yet, but if this doesn't stop at some point, they will. McCarthy gambled too much with challenges, although one time he did get lucky with the Dez Bryant play being overturned. LaFleur seems to be a graduate of MM's coach challenge school though.

 

[gbgary]

I didn't have a problem with the call before the result so I can't kill them after failing. Appreciated the aggressiveness. The run had been working decently. But boy was that a bad play call.

it wasn't a call. it was a screw up. when MLF saw rodgers in a huddle on 4th down he should have called a timeout and brought the O off the field. has MLF given the strategic decisions over to rodgers too? lol

 

[mongoosev]

Duds: Celebrating like you won the game while we were up 21-0. Keep your head in the game!!!!

Studs: D

Overall loved what I saw on D. Very good game! Good job on both sides!

 

[Mavster]

This is why I don't care that Jones got 100 yards, we still can't ******* run when we need to. We can't and teams know it.

Yea it sucks. If it's a 3rd and 2 or some other short down & distance I have little to no faith that the offense will be able to pick it up via the run. It's seemingly been like this for years. Our oline just gets owned at the point of attack.

 

[Mondio]

I hear two arguments or points.

One is the waiting part. I get being confused, because I was also quite confused when the replay was in progress, but I don't really mind waiting a little bit to get it right.

The second one, "officials on the the field with a keen eye," I'm more inclined to argue with.

I think some fairly important calls are missed in a game. That's not a rag on the refs. They are human and there are only so many of them on the field. Errors will occur, but continuous improvement and all that jazz. How do we reduce the number of errors?

To me, it seems simple. More eyes. So put more refs on the field. Add the replay booth. Do both. More cameras. Hell, integrate with a cloud AI/Machine learning platform and train it to help identify penalties and have replay cutups automatically spliced together on every play, just in case it's needed.

This approach is going to change the game, but change isn't necessarily bad.



The counterpoint to that one is a single ref on the field could similarly influence a game. One could argue the league in NY is more insulated that the on-the-field ref.

Not saying I necessarily believe that (or do. Or not. I don't the I can give a black and white answer here) but it could be argued.

I've already said all i care to about replay. It's a game played by humans and no 2 are called a like. There are different flows, different calls etc between teams of officials and games. Week 1 is always called far differently than week 15 or playoffs. I'm fine with it because it will never be 100%

I'm ok with a human game, played by humans being called by humans on the spot. Has never bothered me, even when I played.

I think replay is degrading the officials with keen eyes as they are now trained to rely on replay, ie my example in Detroit. So they got one right yesterday and didn't get one right in Detroit for us last year and still won't correct the absolute horseshit call against Matthews last year or the Denver guy with "roughing" last night. one play is more important than the other?

you see where i'm going? the only way to "fix" it is to "fix" them all and the only way to do that is add more replay. Don't mind waiting, fine, will you if you have to sit thru 20 plays replayed?

and I think a single official trying to "fix" a game would be a fairly easily uncovered offense. He'd have to make enough calls to get the "fix" in or risk not being able to fix it. That would be seen in review of these officials. a league official is well insulated from that and when you only review the "big" plays like scoring ones, where a shifting ball is something and sometimes nothing, betting lines could easily be interfered with.

I worry, because i'm old enough to see what gambling has done to other sports and everything around football is changing to cater to the gambling crowds, heck, half of sports programming is talking about betting lines these days.

anyway, I don't like where it's heading, back to MN /Packers. I was fine with a TD being called

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Everyone has made their Studs/Duds so won't add much more than this. Jimmy Graham was an absolute stud in New Orleans because the coaches put him into a position to take advantage of his skills and never see him blocking. Carroll in Seattle, MM and now MLF have all decided to try to make Jimmy Graham a blocking TE. That is such a failure as a head coach. When will MLF figure out that Graham will NEVER ever be a blocking TE. We have Mercedes Lewis on this roster to be the blocking TE while Graham is the pass catching TE until Tonyan and Jace kick both of them of the roster.

Well said. I plead guilty to thinking the same as Carroll, MM and MLF when it comes to Graham. But I have to now agree with you. I was actually watching Graham yesterday and he whiffed on most of his blocks and actually looked pretty slow running routes. I hope someone can show me film to prove me wrong or Jimmy himself can reverse my new opinion about him, but unless the Packers can light a fire under him, his sole purpose might be best if it is reduced to just Red Zone opportunities.

TE use yesterday was abysmal IMO. I will have to watch the game again, but at one point I saw a huge man lined up way wide for the Packers and I was like "who the hell is this WR, I don't remember a WR with #89?". It was Marcedes Lewis and I can't help but wonder WTF is MLF doing lining him up there at the Packers own 30 yard line.

 

[FaninColorado]

Well said. I plead guilty to thinking the same as Carroll, MM and MLF when it comes to Graham. But I have to now agree with you. I was actually watching Graham yesterday and he whiffed on most of his blocks and actually looked pretty slow running routes. I hope someone can show me film to prove me wrong or Jimmy himself can reverse my new opinion about him, but unless the Packers can light a fire under him, his sole purpose might be best if it is reduced to just Red Zone opportunities.

TE use yesterday was abysmal IMO. I will have to watch the game again, but at one point I saw a huge man lined up way wide for the Packers and I was like "who the hell is this WR, I don't remember a WR with #89?". It was Marcedes Lewis and I can't help but wonder WTF is MLF doing lining him up there at the Packers own 30 yard line.

The problem with Graham/Lewis and this offense is that MLF is trying to make it a run first type offense and by keeping Graham on the field, he is trying to keep the defense honest. He wants Graham on there when they run the ball so he can disguise it. Graham is a liability on running plays just like Lewis is a liability on passing plays. Would love to see what Jace will bring to the offense since he is a pass catching threat and a blocking TE at the same time.

 

[GleefulGary]

Graham sucks.

 

[GleefulGary]

The play calls with the swing pass to Jones, then two plays later the screen to Williams out of the same look was everything I've been waiting to see. That was beautiful.

Jones blocking the **** out of Harrison Smith on a blitz was awesome. Rodgers then rolling into the pass rush bc be didn't expect Jones to get that block was not so awesome.

 

[Mondio]

The play calls with the swing pass to Jones, then two plays later the screen to Williams out of the same look was everything I've been waiting to see. That was beautiful.

Jones blocking the **** out of Harrison Smith on a blitz was awesome. Rodgers then rolling into the pass rush bc be didn't expect Jones to get that block was not so awesome.

I remember that play and absolutely never expected to see that kind of block from Jones. He's come a long ways in that regard since his rookie year. I swore it was williams and was wondering if they both lined up in the backfield LOL