Game 7 - Minnesota- Studs and Duds

Pugger

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Okay, I love Doug, but still so you're just going to throw the blanket down that it was Pederson and therefore MLF is why Love is not doing well?

I'm sorry but again that's too much of a blanket type approach IMO.

Even with the Jax example I'm not saying it is a surefire sign of see Love can be just fine and could be amazing...it was merely the latest example of how a young QB can absolutely struggle...shoot Joe Burrow has looked like hot stinking garbage this year and he has a MUCH better skilled unit around him....doesn't mean he or that HC is trash absolutely.
Pederson is a good coach who has already won a SB. Before Doug got to Jax Lawrence looked terrible and some thought he would be a bust. Coaching does matter. The reason I am beginning to question the acumen of MLF is because his charges don't seem very disciplined and are getting worse as the season is progressing and not better. It isn't just Love's poor play that has me concerned. There is poor play and screw-ups on both sides of the ball.
 

Sanguine camper

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The Packers drafted Watson and Musgrave to stretch the field. So far, Musgrave's catches gave been much too shallow. MLF's play calling is a big problem. A mere 2 yard pass to Musgrave on the opening drive set the stage the pathetic 4 straight 3 and outs. Third and 1 on the first drive. Instead of giving the ball to your supposed "big" back, the play turned out to be some type of botched pass play. Mismanaging Musgrave and Watson isn't helping a struggling Love.
 

tynimiller

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The Packers drafted Watson and Musgrave to stretch the field. So far, Musgrave's catches gave been much too shallow. MLF's play calling is a big problem. A mere 2 yard pass to Musgrave on the opening drive set the stage the pathetic 4 straight 3 and outs. Third and 1 on the first drive. Instead of giving the ball to your supposed "big" back, the play turned out to be some type of botched pass play. Mismanaging Musgrave and Watson isn't helping a struggling Love.

Our intermediate and deep game will never have a chance if our OL doesn't block.
 

Magooch

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our OL has not been that good overall, but haven’t they actually done decent in pass protection? As of last week ESPN’s stats had them as #2 in the league in pass block win rate…
Maybe I am mis-remembering it too but I thought I’d read that we were generally in the “upper tier” for Love’s time to throw. So If both of those are the case (has time to throw and pass pro is typically winning) then you’d think in theory that would allow our mid/long routes to develop/progress/open up more? Just spitballing
 

Heyjoe4

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The Packers drafted Watson and Musgrave to stretch the field. So far, Musgrave's catches gave been much too shallow. MLF's play calling is a big problem. A mere 2 yard pass to Musgrave on the opening drive set the stage the pathetic 4 straight 3 and outs. Third and 1 on the first drive. Instead of giving the ball to your supposed "big" back, the play turned out to be some type of botched pass play. Mismanaging Musgrave and Watson isn't helping a struggling Love.
I agree. I just wonder if Watson and Musgrave are as talented as their draft position would suggest. We'll see. It's hard to evaluate anyone on offense now because they all pretty much stink.

Although I'll give Josh Nijman a "stud" award for playing well at LT in place of the useless Rasheed Walker (or Wallace....). That's it though. Everyone else on O, including MLF for his anemic play calling - all duds.
 

Heyjoe4

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Duds: oline

Studs: P. Smith
Considering how badly the team is playing, I wonder if they'll look at trading anyone today. P Smith, Aaron Jones, and Jaime Alexander seem like good candidates IF they want to go this route. All are skill/impact players and could be a missing piece on a real contender.

At this point, it seems like there is little to lose. A lot also depends on what they could get in return. Ideally 2nd round picks. This may all be a pipe dream, just thinking out loud in the middle of a frustrating season. And I guess draft picks are not much good if Gluten continues his weak performance in the draft.
 

milani

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I cannot express how much their obsession with Dillon offends me, his usage has become a crusade to show how smart they are and how useful he is.

MLF is an incompetent, soft coach, propped up by Rodgers; overcomplicates the game and thinks he is way, way smarter than he actually is.

Jaire is the most overrated player in the league, I've been saying it for years.

Love isn't good and never will be.

This team is infuriating to watch, so I think I'll stop watching them.
Either JA still has back problems or you are correct. He got toasted by a rookie instead of Jefferson.
 

tynimiller

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Considering how badly the team is playing, I wonder if they'll look at trading anyone today. P Smith, Aaron Jones, and Jaime Alexander seem like good candidates IF they want to go this route. All are skill/impact players and could be a missing piece on a real contender.

At this point, it seems like there is little to lose. A lot also depends on what they could get in return. Ideally 2nd round picks. This may all be a pipe dream, just thinking out loud in the middle of a frustrating season. And I guess draft picks are not much good if Gluten continues his weak performance in the draft.

Personally I'd say their ceilings of a clean single pick return is

Jaimie - maybe a 1st likely a 2nd
Preston - maybe a 3rd but likely a 4th
Jones - a 2nd
 

gopkrs

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Either JA still has back problems or you are correct. He got toasted by a rookie instead of Jefferson.
That rookie looks to be awfully good. We have a terrible scheme for our DBs imho.
 

Heyjoe4

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Personally I'd say their ceilings of a clean single pick return is

Jaimie - maybe a 1st likely a 2nd
Preston - maybe a 3rd but likely a 4th
Jones - a 2nd
Good break down. I’d hate to see Jones leave, just a good, unselfish player. But for a 2nd rounder it would be worth it.

They might get a first for Alexander, if he’d shut up……
 

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our OL has not been that good overall, but haven’t they actually done decent in pass protection? As of last week ESPN’s stats had them as #2 in the league in pass block win rate…
Maybe I am mis-remembering it too but I thought I’d read that we were generally in the “upper tier” for Love’s time to throw. So If both of those are the case (has time to throw and pass pro is typically winning) then you’d think in theory that would allow our mid/long routes to develop/progress/open up more? Just spitballing
This begs the question. Is anyone actually getting open for Love to throw to if the line is actually giving him time?
 

tynimiller

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This begs the question. Is anyone actually getting open for Love to throw to if the line is actually giving him time?

Believe it or not many of the "metrics" have graded Wicks VERY high on getting open. I have watched a lot of the All22 film and my eyes (albeit not an experienced coordinator) when I watched Wicks tended to agree...now I don't think he is rarely an early progression route though.
 

Magooch

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Believe it or not many of the "metrics" have graded Wicks VERY high on getting open. I have watched a lot of the All22 film and my eyes (albeit not an experienced coordinator) when I watched Wicks tended to agree...now I don't think he is rarely an early progression route though.
I believe next gen stats had Musgrave as #1 in the league in average separation too.
 

David Ciembronowicz

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First of all, no further discussion of Packer QB should include a reference to ARod he is gone, forgotten and with the Jets. The issue is an offense that has shown itself to have only 2-3 playmakers on that side of the ball, and that does not include the QB. They have 2 RB's both of whom are injured and with diff. skill sets, they have 1 receiver who has shown up regularly and (it is not Watson who everyone thought it would be). Their OL is at best in the bottom 10 in the league and TE's are pedestrian at best. The QB has not shown he is THE guy and at this point in time is not a playmaker who can make everyone else better (at least not based on performances). Play calling and likely coaching all play into an offense that is 25th in the league of 32 however, play calling must also include the players doing their jobs, executing the plays called... so, if you have few playmakers and the rest are fair at best or make too many mistakes... the best play caller in the world is not likely to get them to be that much better. This is not a good offense and overall is showing undisciplined play with the penalties they have taken . Just not a good football team pretty much across the board.
 

tynimiller

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First of all, no further discussion of Packer QB should include a reference to ARod he is gone, forgotten and with the Jets. The issue is an offense that has shown itself to have only 2-3 playmakers on that side of the ball, and that does not include the QB. They have 2 RB's both of whom are injured and with diff. skill sets, they have 1 receiver who has shown up regularly and (it is not Watson who everyone thought it would be). Their OL is at best in the bottom 10 in the league and TE's are pedestrian at best. The QB has not shown he is THE guy and at this point in time is not a playmaker who can make everyone else better (at least not based on performances). Play calling and likely coaching all play into an offense that is 25th in the league of 32 however, play calling must also include the players doing their jobs, executing the plays called... so, if you have few playmakers and the rest are fair at best or make too many mistakes... the best play caller in the world is not likely to get them to be that much better. This is not a good offense and overall is showing undisciplined play with the penalties they have taken . Just not a good football team pretty much across the board.
Aaron Rodgers with more couldn't win 9....I don't expect Love with vastly less to do more given the massive underachieving of too many boxes on this team currently.
 

tynimiller

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I'll discuss Rodgers when relevant and when not...I'll even discuss Kevin King, Amari Rodgers or Justin Harrell too as I see fit LOL
 

Heyjoe4

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Aaron Rodgers with more couldn't win 9....I don't expect Love with vastly less to do more given the massive underachieving of too many boxes on this team currently.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I have to wonder what Gluten was thinking going into the season with no veteran receivers. Everyone is playing so poorly it's hard to make any evaluations.

I feel pretty safe saying, after seven games, that Love just doesn't have what it takes to be a starting QB in the NFL, four years after he was drafted.

So no matter where the Packers finish this year - it's likely to be with 3 or 4 wins, and that's a stretch - whoever has the GM job is gonna need to find a QB in the draft. In that case, I'd rather see them finish with a 2-15 record, because WTF, who cares about another 1 or 2 meaningless wins.

This is a QB-rich draft, and they'd most certainly get someone better than Love. Well, unless there's a Zach Wilson 2.0 in the 2024 draft class.........
 

Heyjoe4

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First of all, no further discussion of Packer QB should include a reference to ARod he is gone, forgotten and with the Jets. The issue is an offense that has shown itself to have only 2-3 playmakers on that side of the ball, and that does not include the QB. They have 2 RB's both of whom are injured and with diff. skill sets, they have 1 receiver who has shown up regularly and (it is not Watson who everyone thought it would be). Their OL is at best in the bottom 10 in the league and TE's are pedestrian at best. The QB has not shown he is THE guy and at this point in time is not a playmaker who can make everyone else better (at least not based on performances). Play calling and likely coaching all play into an offense that is 25th in the league of 32 however, play calling must also include the players doing their jobs, executing the plays called... so, if you have few playmakers and the rest are fair at best or make too many mistakes... the best play caller in the world is not likely to get them to be that much better. This is not a good offense and overall is showing undisciplined play with the penalties they have taken . Just not a good football team pretty much across the board.
The references to ARod don't have to disappear, it's just hard seeing why they're relevant now that he's gone. I'm not interested in what this team was - I am interested in what it has become and what it can be.

Anyway, I agree with all you wrote. Just not a good football team. Can't fire the players (well, not all of them) but the coaches and management can certainly be replaced.

So here's the Xmas present I want from the Pack - Murphy decides there's no point sticking around until he's 70. Or the board collectively grows a pair and fires his ginger ***. Somewhere out there is a Bob Harlan/Ron Wolf combo who can come in and right this sinking ship. That's a whopper of a Xmas present.

But really, Murphy is not the guy to be president of an NFL team. Rodgers really did paint over a lot of weakness in the organization and on the team. So get it right at the top with a solid president as committed to excellence as Lombardi and Harlan were. That will help. Or at least give us a little hope.
 

milani

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Hindsight is 20/20, but I have to wonder what Gluten was thinking going into the season with no veteran receivers. Everyone is playing so poorly it's hard to make any evaluations.

I feel pretty safe saying, after seven games, that Love just doesn't have what it takes to be a starting QB in the NFL, four years after he was drafted.

So no matter where the Packers finish this year - it's likely to be with 3 or 4 wins, and that's a stretch - whoever has the GM job is gonna need to find a QB in the draft. In that case, I'd rather see them finish with a 2-15 record, because WTF, who cares about another 1 or 2 meaningless wins.

This is a QB-rich draft, and they'd most certainly get someone better than Love. Well, unless there's a Zach Wilson 2.0 in the 2024 draft class.........
I think you will see them stick with Love through 2024. The team around him is not very good. Bringing someone in next season will not help until we can get a better O line and some more experience on both sides of the ball. Once you upgrade to that point you look for a QB who can develop with a better team around him.
 

Schultz

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Aaron Rodgers with more couldn't win 9....I don't expect Love with vastly less to do more given the massive underachieving of too many boxes on this team currently.
Read line 1 of the post you are responding to please.
 
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