Vikings studs n duds

Poppa San

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If for the experience alone. I will be happy.
A playoff win for Detroit would be the first in many of their fans' life. They last won a playoff game in 1991 with Barry Sanders & co. Before that was the NFL title in 1957 which culminated a period of success with 3 titles in six years.
 

mradtke66

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To be fair, Melton has benefited from playing with Love. Rodgers never would have looked his way.

I think that's overblown. He demanded a lot from receivers, but who did he routinely ignore? Amari? Janis? Abby? None of them are particularly good.

If you were doing your job, you got targets. Rookie Adams had 38 receptions. Rookie MVS had 38 receptions. Rookie Cobb had 25 receptions--which is low, but he was the 6th option behind Jennings, Jordy, Driver, Jones, and Finley.
 

BrokenArrow

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I think that's overblown. He demanded a lot from receivers, but who did he routinely ignore? Amari? Janis? Abby? None of them are particularly good.

If you were doing your job, you got targets.
There were plenty of times where other receivers were open in the flat or over the middle for an easy first down but instead Rodgers would opt to throw into double and even triple-covered Adams or even sometimes take sacks instead of throwing to them. And the later it got in playoff games, the worse he would be about it. Always looking for the big play to his favorite crutch trying to play hero ball. Rodgers "trust" issues are well documented.
 

mradtke66

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There were plenty of times where other receivers were open in the flat or over the middle for an easy first down but instead Rodgers would opt to throw into double and even triple-covered Adams or even sometimes take sacks instead of throwing to them. And the later it got in playoff games, the worse he would be about it. Always looking for the big play to his favorite crutch trying to play hero ball. Rodgers "trust" issues are well documented.

I'm not saying this didn't happen, but that they are independent issues.

Was Rodgers more likely to take the big play over the dump off? Yes.

Was Rodgers more likely to pick Adams over other players? Yes, but I'm not sure how big of flaw that was. He'd get tunnel vision, but it also tended to work, right up until it didn't.

Did Rodgers ignore rookies because he didn't trust them? I say no. We have evidence that he would target rookies. He would ignore players running the wrong route or not trying hard or both. Again, the players we conclude that he didn't like seems to not actually be good.

I'd expect him to spread the ball around with this group of receivers pretty fairly. He had no problems targeting Watson as a rookie either. 41 receptions and he missed a ton of games in 2022.
 

AmishMafia

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I think that's overblown. He demanded a lot from receivers, but who did he routinely ignore? Amari? Janis? Abby? None of them are particularly good.

If you were doing your job, you got targets. Rookie Adams had 38 receptions. Rookie MVS had 38 receptions. Rookie Cobb had 25 receptions--which is low, but he was the 6th option behind Jennings, Jordy, Driver, Jones, and Finley.
If Jordan Love was the QB, would Amari, Janis, Abby, etc have been more productive? Would a QB who works with the receivers, going over plays on the sidelines, encouraging them instead of ignoring (or scowling at them have helped them? Would not undermining the coaching staff with pouting and snears, refusing to run the offensive scheme positively affect the receivers as well?
 
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If Jordan Love was the QB, would Amari, Janis, Abby, etc have been more productive? Would a QB who works with the receivers, going over plays on the sidelines, encouraging them instead of ignoring (or scowling at them have helped them? Would not undermining the coaching staff with pouting and snears, refusing to run the offensive scheme positively affect the receivers as well?
I don’t think there’s any question at all that Aaron Rodgers picked favorites. That was all fine and dandy until those favorites aged and were replaced by a young group. I do think we could’ve done a better job retaining a player or 2 though, it took 2 to Tango. They largely ignored getting him weapons and went after pedestrian D players.
Anyway, I’m more excited now than I’ve been in several years. I absolutely LOVE not having the drama at QB. Night N day feel.

Nearly brought a tear to my eye watching #33 spray that Champagne on Love. We are some lucky Ducks getting to watch Love play like this. He’s surpassed even my expectation. I thought he’d do good to break Top 20. He’s a legit top 10 QB right now and just getting warmed up. Wait until he gets a stud OL and dynamic young, versatile RB like J. Brooks.
 

AmishMafia

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I don’t think there’s any question at all that Aaron Rodgers picked favorites. That was all fine and dandy until those favorites aged and were replaced by a young group. I do think we could’ve done a better job retaining a player or 2 though, it took 2 to Tango. They largely ignored getting him weapons and went after pedestrian D players.
Anyway, I’m more excited now than I’ve been in several years. I absolutely LOVE not having the drama at QB. Night N day feel.

Nearly brought a tear to my eye watching #33 spray that Champagne on Love. We are some lucky Ducks getting to watch Love play like this. He’s surpassed even my expectation. I thought he’d do good to break Top 20. He’s a legit top 10 QB right now and just getting warmed up. Wait until he gets a stud OL and dynamic young, versatile RB like J. Brooks.
So Gute was bad at drafting WR and TEs and only figured it out this year? He hit on 2 of 3 WRs and 2 of 2 on TEs in the draft, not to mention hitting on 2 FA WRs and 1 FA TE who has done nothing to embarrass himself. Maybe the talent was always there but didn't get developed.
 

milani

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While GB would obviously be a huge underdog in any playoff game, I'd give them a puncher's chance to upset a dome team on the road (Dallas? Detroit?). Jordan Love playing with house money in a controlled environment...He's a cool customer, and that can be a scary thing to a heavy favorite.
We have not made the playoffs yet.
 

mradtke66

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So Gute was bad at drafting WR and TEs and only figured it out this year?
A little yes, a little no.

Degura isn’t very good. What other TEs has he drafted?
(EDIT: I meant before this year. Obviously we have two rookies)

St. Brown, MVS, and what’s his face year. A resounding meh, though I do like MVS.

Gute didn’t do badly with those players, the problem was the drop off once it was Adams. And again once Adams left.

Watson produced once healthy and was Rodgers first target of 2022. 2nd round pick.

Doubs was here last year and got plenty of targets.

Reed looks outstanding. Certainly a better rookie season than Cobb.

The team in general left the WR room to rot. They dumped a lot of resources into it and things look pretty good now.

I am not saying that Rodgers didn’t pick favorites. Just that his favorites tended to be good players that did their jobs. He even liked a lot of mediocre players that did their jobs (Ruvell Martin, Boykin, Lazard), while his not favorites are mostly (entirely?) out of the league.
 
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AmishMafia

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A little yes, a little no.

Degura isn’t very good. What other TEs has he drafted?
(EDIT: I meant before this year. Obviously we have two rookies)

St. Brown, MVS, and what’s his face year. A resounding meh, though I do like MVS.

Gute didn’t do badly with those players, the problem was the drop off once it was Adams. And again once Adams left.

Watson produced once healthy and was Rodgers first target of 2022. 2nd round pick.

Doubs was here last year and got plenty of targets.

Reed looks outstanding. Certainly a better rookie season than Cobb.

The team in general left the WR room to rot. They dumped a lot of resources into it and things look pretty good now.

I am not saying that Rodgers didn’t pick favorites. Just that his favorites tended to be good players that did their jobs. He even liked a lot of mediocre players that did their jobs (Ruvell Martin, Boykin, Lazard), while his not favorites are mostly (entirely?) out of the league.
Jmon More and Jace Sternberger.

Again, maybe these players and the ones you mentioned would have had a different career trajectory if they had Love as their QB.

It's odd that the same scouting department and GM are suddenly hitting to a much higher degree than before.
 

Firethorn1001

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It had to have been a different mentality in drafting WR/TE this year. You remove 2 major questions

1. Do we feel this player going to mesh with Aaron Rodgers and his demands/demeanor
2. Can we afford this player potentially not being used for 2-3 years while he gets up to speed with Rodgers demands.

Seems if you got in Rodgers doghouse as a WR/TE it was pretty much game over.
 
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So Gute was bad at drafting WR and TEs and only figured it out this year? He hit on 2 of 3 WRs and 2 of 2 on TEs in the draft, not to mention hitting on 2 FA WRs and 1 FA TE who has done nothing to embarrass himself. Maybe the talent was always there but didn't get developed.
It’s not as much that Gutecwas bad at drafting as it was he nearly ignored weapons for Rodgers altogether. Gute didn’t invest like he did this year, which is the example you are using to show success (which I fully agree). But let’s take a closer look….

Our TWO drafted TE were the highest drafted pair in Franchise history and I went back to 1960’s. No other season did we draft TWO TE inside the top 3 Rounds. Bubba was as close as we got decades ago.


GutenKunst becomes GM
2018: #133 J’mon Moore #174 MVS #207 EQ
TE: NONE ?

2019: WR NONE??

TE #75Jace Sternberger

2020: WR NONE?
TE #94 Josiah Deguara

2021: #85 Amari Rodgers
TE NONE?

2022: #34 Christian Watson #132 Romeo Doubs, #258 Samorie Toure
TE: NONE?

2023
: #50 Jayden Reed #159 Dontayvion Wicks #256 Grant Dubose
TE: #45 Luke Musgrave #78 Tucker Kraft


So you ask why Gutey suddenly struck Gold? When else has Gutey even drafted high at both TE AND WR? He hasn’t.
Guteys 1st Top 50 weapon was in 2022 #34 selection. Guess what? It worked. The primary reason he hit this year is draft capital.

That was my whole point. Gutey largely ignored Rodgers. Just 2 players at TE/WR have been selected for Aaron in rounds 1,2 since… 2011 only 1 was selected by Gutey and he was a Rookie last year.
 
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Schultz

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Jmon More and Jace Sternberger.

Again, maybe these players and the ones you mentioned would have had a different career trajectory if they had Love as their QB.

It's odd that the same scouting department and GM are suddenly hitting to a much higher degree than before.
IMO the odds were with them. IMO the draft position of Watson, Doubs & Reed compared to EQ, MVS & Jmon give me the feeling these scouts you speak of thought more highly of this recent group. Again, just my opinion. As far as the TEs, I liked the Sternberger pick, hated the Deguara pick and liked both the Musgrave and Kraft picks. Again, just my opinion. Now my having an opinion on draft picks, in no way do I mean to infer that I know more or would be better than the Packer FO in that regard.
 

Magooch

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Man, just think of how much success we’d have had if we’d sent Rodgers packing years earlier and brought in a decent quarterback who could actually develop guys with such great potential like Jeff Janis and Jared Abbrederis. If only…
 

mradtke66

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Jmon More and Jace Sternberger.

Again, maybe these players and the ones you mentioned would have had a different career trajectory if they had Love as their QB.
Moore had terrible hands. I don't see how any quarterback could have helped him, especially when he did all the other parts very well.

Sternberger started his career on IR but caught a TD from Rodgers his rookie season, spent his second preseason on the COVID list, and was cut following a suspension due to substance abuse at the start of his third. Again, what could any quarterback done differently?
 
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Man, just think of how much success we’d have had if we’d sent Rodgers packing years earlier and brought in a decent quarterback who could actually develop guys with such great potential like Jeff Janis and Jared Abbrederis. If only…
That was pretty funny right there! Using a couple of True Blue chip Stallions :laugh:
 

milani

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A little yes, a little no.

Degura isn’t very good. What other TEs has he drafted?
(EDIT: I meant before this year. Obviously we have two rookies)

St. Brown, MVS, and what’s his face year. A resounding meh, though I do like MVS.

Gute didn’t do badly with those players, the problem was the drop off once it was Adams. And again once Adams left.

Watson produced once healthy and was Rodgers first target of 2022. 2nd round pick.

Doubs was here last year and got plenty of targets.

Reed looks outstanding. Certainly a better rookie season than Cobb.

The team in general left the WR room to rot. They dumped a lot of resources into it and things look pretty good now.

I am not saying that Rodgers didn’t pick favorites. Just that his favorites tended to be good players that did their jobs. He even liked a lot of mediocre players that did their jobs (Ruvell Martin, Boykin, Lazard), while his not favorites are mostly (entirely?) out of the league.
DeGuara has not filled the bill.
 

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