Fire Shawn Mennenga

[Pokerbrat2000]

Agreed on Mennenga. Although, I will admit sometimes a tough call on if its the players a special teams coach has to work with or his coaching that is the problem. Just based on the lack of success, energy and creativity that the special teams have shown this season, I am going to point a finger at Mennenga as being part of the problem.

The blocked punt on Sunday was just players not recognizing what the Chargers were doing. The Chargers overloaded one side of the LOS, have no clue what Fackrell was doing, he totally took himself out of position and Vitale didn't see the overload either and moved way out of position when the ball was snapped as well. Players mistakes, but coaches not coaching them up on "what if this happens, you do this".

https://clips.clippit.tv/wplevq/360.mp4

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

ST coach Shawn Mennenga said on punt returns it's about opportunity. Said he's been more conservative, not wanting fake punts against him, so he hasn't doubled the gunners as much. Said lack of production is on him.

Well, at least he saw game film of Ron Zook getting beat on those lol.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Say what you want about the "talent level" that Mennenga does or doesn't have, but these kind of stats are what get you fired at the end of the year.

Ryan Wood
@ByRyanWood

#Packers could become first modern NFL team to finish season with negative punt return yards. Even if they don’t, there’s a real chance they’ll be only 2nd team in past 37 years with fewer than 100. How is -8 PR yards in 9 games possible? So many reasons.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...g-improve-woeful-punt-return-team/2520622001/

 

[LetzBreel]

I knew it was bad but I am shocked that it's that bad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I knew it was bad but I am shocked that it's that bad.

Imagine if we had a bad punter and kicker, things would look even worse on special teams. Some want to say "oh he just doesn't have the right players to work with and they aren't doing their jobs". Well, I got news for you, NFL teams don't use a lot of resources on special teams players, a ST coach needs to make due with what he gets dealt every season and teach these star college players how to play ST. So unless Mennenga can change what he is doing and coach up the players he has, I don't see this getting much better anytime soon.

 

[LetzBreel]

Special team guys are usually a different breed because they have to be. It's pretty much a thankless job but time and time again it proves to be maybe the most important. Having a screw loose should be the norm if not a requirement. For most special teamers, it's the only reason they have a roster spot. It's all about effort and if you don't take pride in it, you will get your butt handed to you. A coach that can motivate guys that have been stars their whole life to swallow their egos and bust their butts is a luxury. Maybe time to reevaluate Mennenga.

 

[Sanguine camper]

How is Mennenga still the ST coordinator ? -8 yards in punt returns in 9 games. How is that even possible? MLF must learn from previous Packer failures and not reward failure time and again like TT and MM.

 

[pacmaniac]

-8 yards? Wow, it's way worse than I realized. What did they even see in Mennenga? Vanderbilt was ranked 100th out of 130 in special teams in 2018.

 

[gopkrs]

How is Mennenga still the ST coordinator ? -8 yards in punt returns in 9 games. How is that even possible? MLF must learn from previous Packer failures and not reward failure time and again like TT and MM.

Maybe he was the reason Shepherd did not do well. Yeah, Shepherd misjudged a punt very badly but the rest of the times he nor the blockers seemed to be coached up. Just saying that LaFleur should not wait for the season to end if things don't improve. The special teams have played with more intensity lately imo but if that does not last...don't wait.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe he was the reason Shepherd did not do well. Yeah, Shepherd misjudged a punt very badly but the rest of the times he nor the blockers seemed to be coached up. Just saying that LaFleur should not wait for the season to end if things don't improve. The special teams have played with more intensity lately imo but if that does not last...don't wait.

Aside of the field goal unit and Scott's early season performance the Packers special teams have been lousy.

I'm not sure Mennenga has to be replaced at this point but the team needs to improve before losing a game because of it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not sure Mennenga has to be replaced at this point but the team needs to improve before losing a game because of it.

It's pretty clear to me that if things don't improve, Mennenga should be gone, no later than the end of the season. What I would be interested to know is how MLF and Gute feel about Menenga's relationship with his players and if replacing him now would serve as motivation for the renaming season, that as Murphy stated way back when, "No complacency".

Tricky for an 8-2 team to be firing coaches and if they don't have a better candidate in mind or they feel it would creative a negative reaction by the players, we probably see Shawn at least get to finish the season.

No more hiring special teams coaches named "Shawn"!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's pretty clear to me that if things don't improve, Mennenga should be gone, no later than the end of the season. What I would be interested to know is how MLF and Gute feel about Menenga's relationship with his players and if replacing him now would serve as motivation for the renaming season, that as Murphy stated way back when, "No complacency".

Tricky for an 8-2 team to be firing coaches and if they don't have a better candidate in mind or they feel it would creative a negative reaction by the players, we probably see Shawn at least get to finish the season.

The bye week might be the only possibility to replace Mennenga with a different coach and having the possibility to implement a new scheme. I highly doubt that will happen or would result in significant improvement for the rest of the season though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The bye week might be the only possibility to replace Mennenga with a different coach and having the possibility to implement a new scheme. I highly doubt that will happen or would result in significant improvement for the rest of the season though.

Pretty much agree with you and I would add finding a new ST coach at this time, would probably be even a bigger hurdle. College coaches are still coaching and most decent NFL coaches are in the same boat, probably not a good list of candidates to choose from. Guessing if a change were to be made, it would be promoting Mennenga's assistant or someone else within the Packer organization to be the intern.

If nothing else, Gute and/or MLF need to have a sit down with Mennenga and let them know that things need to get better with special teams..."or else".

 

[Dantés]

I'll add this to the discussion (I posted it in the Bye Week thread):

The "Fire Shawn Menenga" trend is a bit premature. But his unit has had a lot of problems in the return game. Crosby has been good. Their net punting is decent (12th). I can't find any stats on KO yards allowed. They are 13th best in average LOS per opponent drive-- the average starting field position for opponent drives is their own 28 yard line. They are 26th in terms of their own starting LOS per drive (their own 26 yard line).

So his unit is really, really bad in one particular area (returns), but fine most everywhere else. It's hard for me to put all of the blame on him for that given the options he's been provided in the return game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not sure I would give too much credit to Mennenga when it comes to the kicking of Crosby and the punting of Scott. To be fair, I wouldn't give him much discredit for the limitations that Shepherd seemed to present him with either. However, I think the ST's has lacked energy and ingenuity. They seem to be playing like its an afterthought. Being told to fair catch almost every punt and return kicks right up the middle.

Mennenga himself came out last week and said that he needed to open things up a bit and be more aggressive.

https://www.packers.com/video/mennenga-seeks-to-be-more-aggressive-on-returns

Both punt and kick return defensive units have given up a lot more yards then the offensive units have gained.

Packers:

Punt returns: -1.3 yds/return (total yardage for season -8)
Kick returns: 18.8 yds/return

Opponents:

Punt returns: 8.7 yds/return
Kick returns: 26.2 yds/return.

 

[Dantés]

Not sure I would give too much credit to Mennenga when it comes to the kicking of Crosby and the punting of Scott. To be fair, I wouldn't give him much discredit for the limitations that Shepherd seemed to present him with either. However, I think the ST's has lacked energy and ingenuity. They seem to be playing like its an afterthought. Being told to fair catch almost every punt and return kicks right up the middle.

Mennenga himself came out last week and said that he needed to open things up a bit and be more aggressive.

https://www.packers.com/video/mennenga-seeks-to-be-more-aggressive-on-returns

Both punt and kick return defensive units have given up a lot more yards then the offensive units have gained.

Packers:

Punt returns: -1.3 yds/return (total yardage for season -8)
Kick returns: 18.8 yds/return

Opponents:

Punt returns: 8.7 yds/return
Kick returns: 26.2 yds/return.

How do those opponent numbers rank, overall?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

How do those opponent numbers rank, overall?

Not trying to shirk my responsibilities, but I will give you the link and let you grade each of our opponents.

Packers Rank Dead last in Ave. Yds/return on Punts

Packers rank 29th in Ave. Yds/return/kick off

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/team-stats?season=2019&week=100&category=returning&sort=9


I could be wrong about our special teams, but really all it takes is the good old fashioned "eye test", to know that they aren't very good in all phases (I am not including Crosby and Scott in that statement).

 

[Dantés]

Not trying to shirk my responsibilities, but I will give you the link and let you grade each of our opponents.

Packers Rank Dead last in Ave. Yds/return on Punts

Packers rank 29th in Ave. Yds/return/kick off

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/team-stats?season=2019&week=100&category=returning&sort=9


I could be wrong about our special teams, but really all it takes is the good old fashioned "eye test", to know that they aren't very good in all phases (I am not including Crosby and Scott in that statement).

Tied for 11th in net punt average.

So they're really bad in the return game and OK at everything else. I would give the guy a halfway decent return man before I fired him.

 

[OldSchool101]

Well, we obviously took away resources from Shawn at PR this season. We just acquired a Returner a few weeks ago (Tremon). We also have been playing without 2 of our better return team candidates from 2018 for most of this season (Burks and Campbell).

We have not exactly done a whole lot to give this new ST Coordinator the resources to improve resource wise. As much as I complain about ST lack of discipline, I think we owe Shawn more time, resources and attention in order to be successful. We should have a goal of middle of the league (top16) for the final 7 games, then track it and address it weekly and making necessary adjustments. Our year starts over in San Fran. What are we going to do differently?

We’re too far invested to be scratching the staff this far in. We can get an adequate fix we can live with until we make a year end decision on him.

PS. I noticed we lined up differently on Punt unit. We lined up tighter upfront and kept Vitale more centered to play any leaks. That jumped out to me last Sunday

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe I am being too critical of Mr. Mennenga and that could also stem from too many years of garbage for special teams. Then I see plays like this and I am saying to myself "now there is ST coach that is thinking about things and willing to experiment a bit!" That "gunner" was also wide open for a pass, had the 49'ers worked a possible fake punt into that formation.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

According to PFF, the Packers have the 2nd-worst graded special teams unit in the entire NFL.

Bring back Zook and Slocum!

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[gopkrs]

My biggest problem has been the lack of good coverage on our kick offs. Maybe that is improving though. But also our inability to block well on our kick off returns.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My biggest problem has been the lack of good coverage on our kick offs. Maybe that is improving though. But also our inability to block well on our kick off returns.

My biggest problem with special teams this season and in the past is that it looks like they are an after thought. Punt returners calling for fair catches to play it safe and kick returners running straight up the middle. The Packers are doing much better this season than most thought they would, yet special teams is still bad. As we get closer to the playoffs, the ST units need to step up and start making some impact plays, plays that might be the difference in a very close game, against very good opponents.

Mennenga will no doubt finish the season due to the overall success we are currently having as a team. However, if things don't improve, I would hope that in the off season, Gute and the Packers can find someone who can actually improve something that has been just terrible in Green Bay far too long.

 

[pacmaniac]

We are now at 8 punt returns for -11 yards on the season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

About time this thread catch fire. There is absolutely no excuses left. We had 2 blockers on each of the 49'ers gunners on punt returns and on every punt (but one) I watched, at least one gunner broke free and on that one punt, when there actually looked like there might be space to return the ball....fair catch! Mennenga has to go.