MLF decision making process

[gopkrs]

I still think Love AND his receivers do not consistently see the coverage, particularly who has single coverage. Progressions are one thing but the best chance to complete a pass to move sticks comes first. And you do not have to get it all in one play. Rodgers was very good at this even when he slowed down. MLF has to do a better job of this.

Sometimes I wonder if, as Love is going through his progressions, he actually sees anything.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Disagree Love is fully capable of cooking, problem is MLF most of the time acts like it is a cooking class and has to not ask him to do too much….LOVE CAN COOK…LET HIM COOK. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again this team has the QB and the play caller/designer to pass at a 60-40 percent clip to run. Right from the jump I would love to see us pass the entire first drive every play.

Not really sure why you disagree with my post, since we are basically saying the same thing.

However, I do have my doubts on Love's ability to read the recipe fully. I do agree with you that MLF is making him play with 1 hand tied behind his back at times. Not just with his (MLF's) play calling, but his apparent lack of putting Love in a kitchen where he can cook successfully. Which is why I said MLF needs to roll Love out more on RPO's. Especially against defenses that are collapsing the pocket on a consistent basis. How many balls got batted down last night? How many times was Love forced to throw through the front 7 and the pass was off? If you can't give your QB a clean pocket to throw from, you have to artificially create it by rolling him out. (See Jalen Hurts most of the night).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sometimes I wonder if, as Love is going through his progressions, he actually sees anything.

I have wondered that too. Even deeper into that thought, does he have the green light from his coach to audible out of a called play?

 

[gopkrs]

I have wondered that too. Even deeper into that thought, does he have the green light from his coach to audible out of a called play?

And also, does he have the confidence to do so?

 

[milani]

Sometimes I wonder if, as Love is going through his progressions, he actually sees anything.

The best QBs usually get up to the line and see all that. Unless the play is late or they do not get out of the huddle in time they can make a change. And the rest of the offense should be aware. Watch today's top QBs. Watch yesterday's.

 

[milani]

And also, does he have the confidence to do so?

Favre and Rodgers simply did what they chose. And did not worry about their coach hollering at them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The best QBs usually get up to the line and see all that. Unless the play is late or they do not get out of the huddle in time they can make a change. And the rest of the offense should be aware. Watch today's top QBs. Watch yesterday's.

This is a real problem with MLF and his play calling.

Sometimes I wonder if MLF does it on purpose. Maybe in the back of the mind he wants to force Love to run the called play? I may be reading too much into this, but I know there was some friction back when Rodgers was the QB and MLF would get angry at him for audibling out of his called plays. Did Matt decide, consciously or subconsciously, that he wouldn't make that "mistake" with Jordan? Passive-aggressive management of his QB, dictated by previously being dominated by a veteran QB?

 

[Guacamole]

the officials don't even know the rule for "illegal formation". It's a 5yd penalty, replay the down

Illegal Formation | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

 

[Magooch]

This is a real problem with MLF and his play calling.

Sometimes I wonder if MLF does it on purpose. Maybe in the back of the mind he wants to force Love to run the called play? I may be reading too much into this, but I know there was some friction back when Rodgers was the QB and MLF would get angry at him for audibling out of his called plays. Did Matt decide, consciously or subconsciously, that he wouldn't make that "mistake" with Jordan? Passive-aggressive management of his QB, dictated by previously being dominated by a veteran QB?

I’ve wondered similar too honestly. We have all heard the narrative that LaFleur was being “carried” by Rodgers. At times it’s felt like Matt has wanted to prove his success is due to him and his system rather than the QB so he coaches in such a way that minimizes the QB and emphasizes the “system”. I hope and like to think that’s not the case, but I dunno. Just feels like sometimes he wants to prove it’s not about the QB.

 

[Guacamole]

MLF record with Rodgers.....47-19
with Love.........25-16-1

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I’ve wondered similar too honestly. We have all heard the narrative that LaFleur was being “carried” by Rodgers. At times it’s felt like Matt has wanted to prove his success is due to him and his system rather than the QB so he coaches in such a way that minimizes the QB and emphasizes the “system”. I hope and like to think that’s not the case, but I dunno. Just feels like sometimes he wants to prove it’s not about the QB.

Agree

Something Matt tries to do all the time, through his "coaching", is what Rodgers was great at doing, getting a free play. I honestly think that was the plan on that 4th and 1 play. Matt was trying to get a free 5 by rushing the offense to the LOS and snapping the ball quickly. "Who cares about the offensive play call, lets just outsmart them and get a free 5." Matt was standing on the sideline after the play, trying to convince the refs that Philly was offsides.

So let's blame Rodgers and call what Matt is doing "The Rodgers Hangover." Matt is still trying to prove he is an ultra smart coach, that could run circles around A-Rod.

 

[adambr2]

Agree

Something Matt tries to do all the time, through his "coaching", is what Rodgers was great at doing, getting a free play. I honestly think that was the plan on that 4th and 1 play. Matt was trying to get a free 5 by rushing the offense to the LOS and snapping the ball quickly. "Who cares about the offensive play call, lets just outsmart them and get a free 5." Matt was standing on the sideline after the play, trying to convince the refs that Philly was offsides.

So let's blame Rodgers and call what Matt is doing "The Rodgers Hangover." Matt is still trying to prove he is an ultra smart coach, that could run circles around A-Rod.

Someone should let MLF know how well that worked out for Bill Bellichick, whose resume blows MLFs away in every way.

Matt’s offensive gameplan is the definition of a square peg in a round hole. He desperately wants this to be a run first offense, but it doesn’t fit our personnel or blocking strengths.

Call me crazy but I think any team willing to make their QB the highest paid player in the league (at the time he signed it) should probably make that played the focal point of their offense.

 

[Voyageur]

I've been saying it since the second game of the year. I said it last year, and it bit us repeatedly. LeFleur's game calling is predictable. Especially in rushed situations, and on short yardage plays. Even Josh Jacobs has said it now, indicating that on that failed 4th and 1 the Eagles knew exactly what the Packers were going to do, and essentially sold all out on it knowing they weren't just guessing but had it right.

People can say, "Yeah, but the fumble made it fail." Nope! That's not true. The fact that the play was doomed from the start caused mishandling of the ball because the rush was on them before they even started to develop the play. Our entire center of the line collapsed because of the onslaught of defenders crowding them.

I'm beginning to wonder if LeFleur is HC material to be honest. He may not show it or have what he considers legitimate excuses for the failures but to me Jacobs' comment tells a story of a head coach who has been diagnosed effectively by our opponents. Of course, none of them are saying so because they all want to see the Packers eliminated.

Not only is LeFleur predictable, but we also have a QB who fits into the same mold and doesn't really see his best options on the field way too often. Don't be fooled by gaudy completion percentages and fewer INTs because the majority of Love's passes rely on the receiver getting most of the yards on runs after catches. Then there's the second and third problems. He focuses on one, possibly two receivers for too long because he doesn't visualize what's happening as well as an elite QB should. By the time he's ready to progress to the third option he's pressured and has to either dump the ball to a short safety valve, throw it into traffic, or into the ground for an incompletion. This does not move the chains.

An elite QB would see that certain players are coming open on broken plays and that's where the ball needs to go. There were at least two cases against the Eagles where there were easy passes available to Doubs for distance and Love opted to throw it into the dirt in traffic, not even seeing him directly behind the direction of the throw. It tells me Love has poor peripheral vision when it comes to seeing the whole field and I've never seen a QB was considered elite fail to have that particular trait.

Please understand. I'm not complaining. I'm just stating facts based on what I'm seeing on the field. The Packers are and will be the product of LeFleur and Love as they shape the offense moving forward. There's absolutely nothing we can complain about when it comes to the defense. They're playing lights out. How many games have we lost now this year where we held the opposition to 16 or less points? That should tell the whole story.

 

[gopkrs]

The best QBs usually get up to the line and see all that. Unless the play is late or they do not get out of the huddle in time they can make a change. And the rest of the offense should be aware. Watch today's top QBs. Watch yesterday's.

Sorry to be blunt but progressions are for to see how the play is working out. Before the play is for guessing what you have. Guessing what the DBs and linebackers are going to do. You go through progressions to see who's actually open. You don't know that at the los. And sometimes I wonder if Love is actually seeing what is or if he is just turning his head correctly.

 

[Magooch]

What makes it all the more frustrating to me is that I think Love has shown he CAN be "the guy"....and not only that, but LaFleur has ALSO shown that he CAN scheme/gameplan and call a game in such a way that makes Love the focal point and maximizes his talents.

Like his 2023 that probably earned him his big contract, or some stretches of solid play last year, or even this year, where he was quite literally playing at an MVP-caliber to open the season... He DOES have the ability. Even after last night, Love is STILL second in the league in QB EPA per play and 4th in CPOE. The passing offense as a whole is 6th in expected points contribution.

Meanwhile, Josh Jacobs is currently 4th in the league in rushing attempts (3rd in attempts per game)... but 14th in yards and 38th (!!!) in yards per attempt (min. 50 rushes). The rush offense is 20th in expected points contribution. At 3.8 yards per attempt thus far it's the second-worst average of Jacobs' career, and the worst isn't far behind (3.5 ypc).

And with all that being considered, anyone care to venture a guess as to how our run-pass split is looking?

286 pass attempts, 255 rush attempts. 53% pass, 47% run.

So I just don't get it. We are quite literally shooting ourselves in the feet every game.

Is Love simply too inconsistent or "not trustworthy?" (top-10 in INT percentage and completion percentage)

Does Matt feel like we don't have the right personnel to open up the passing game the way he wants? (Lack of personnel hasn't dissuaded him from trying to play run-first...)

Is he just too enamored with the concept of taking what the defense gives you? (ignoring that opposing defenses LOVE to have him play right into their hands)

I just don't understand.

 

[OldSchool101]

Not really sure why you disagree with my post, since we are basically saying the same thing.

However, I do have my doubts on Love's ability to read the recipe fully. I do agree with you that MLF is making him play with 1 hand tied behind his back at times. Not just with his (MLF's) play calling, but his apparent lack of putting Love in a kitchen where he can cook successfully. Which is why I said MLF needs to roll Love out more on RPO's. Especially against defenses that are collapsing the pocket on a consistent basis. How many balls got batted down last night? How many times was Love forced to throw through the front 7 and the pass was off? If you can't give your QB a clean pocket to throw from, you have to artificially create it by rolling him out. (See Jalen Hurts most of the night).

Matter of fact on this above 4th n 1 last night. If Jacobs baits everyone and last second pitched it to Jordan and Wicks fades out for a 3 yard comeback he can play pickle. Either dump it off or run it if they don’t run downhill on him.

Theres no creativity to anything we do. That looked like Preseason Vanilla script. Do we not have anything better called for a 4th n 1? That’s a play you’d see Detroit pr KC toss in a pre designed trick play and it goes for 10 yards.

btw whoever was at Center got completely blown up there.

 

[mradtke66]

Sorry to be blunt but progressions are for to see how the play is working out. Before the play is for guessing what you have. Guessing what the DBs and linebackers are going to do. You go through progressions to see who's actually open. You don't know that at the los. And sometimes I wonder if Love is actually seeing what is or if he is just turning his head correctly.

That's not entirely accurate either. Coming to the line and reading the defense, a good quarterback knows most of what is going to happen. Not perfectly, not every time, but mostly. Down and distance, alignment, personnel, etc, tell a story. Sending a player in motion gives more information to suspect man vs. zone. If nothing else, the QB should know who is most likely to be open/win before the ball is snapped. This is especially true on 3 step drops. This is all but a requirement if DB is coming and hot route is the only chance to avoid a sack.

How many times have we heard a story where QB like Rodgers or Favre make a comment pre-play or mid-play implying that the defense lined up wrong? Favre vs. the Cowboys, throwing a pass to the vulnerable spot of the field while Deon came on a corner blitz? "I knew you were coming, Prime."

This is why they study film. The progression is confirming what you read pre-snap is accurate.

5 and 7 step drops give the QB more opportunities to actually read and de-emphasize those pre-snap reads, but the process is still largely the same.

 

[gopkrs]

Meanwhile, Josh Jacobs is currently 4th in the league in rushing attempts (3rd in attempts per game)... but 14th in yards and 38th (!!!)

This is a very telling stat imho. And to me means our ratio of run to pass should be tilted quite a bit to the pass side.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

the officials don't even know the rule for "illegal formation". It's a 5yd penalty, replay the down

Illegal Formation | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

Not so sure about it being an "automatic" replay of down. Since the ref waits to see if the offending player (Wicks on 4th and 1) corrects their position. Wicks didn't, ball was snapped, flag thrown. I believe the defense at that point can accept the penalty or decline it and take the result of the play.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is a very telling stat imho. And to me means our ratio of run to pass should be tilted quite a bit to the pass side.

It also means our OL isn't run blocking very well. Nor do I believe that they are pass blocking all that well.

 

[gopkrs]

That's not entirely accurate either. Coming to the line and reading the defense, a good quarterback knows most of what is going to happen. Not perfectly, not every time, but mostly. Down and distance, alignment, personnel, etc, tell a story. Sending a player in motion gives more information to suspect man vs. zone. If nothing else, the QB should know who is most likely to be open/win before the ball is snapped. This is especially true on 3 step drops. This is all but a requirement if DB is coming and hot route is the only chance to avoid a sack.

How many times have we heard a story where QB like Rodgers or Favre make a comment pre-play or mid-play implying that the defense lined up wrong? Favre vs. the Cowboys, throwing a pass to the vulnerable spot of the field while Deon came on a corner blitz? "I knew you were coming, Prime."
This is why they study film. The progression is confirming what you read pre-snap is accurate.

5 and 7 step drops give the QB more opportunities to actually read and de-emphasize those pre-snap reads, but the process is still largely the same.

I completely disagree. The progressions are what makes and breaks. Seeing the field is what makes a good QB, and his arm. Of course you have a guy in mind. He's your first progression.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Matter of fact on this above 4th n 1 last night. If Jacobs baits everyone and last second pitched it to Jordan and Wicks fades out for a 3 yard comeback he can play pickle. Either dump it off or run it if they don’t run downhill on him.

Theres no creativity to anything we do. That looked like Preseason Vanilla script. Do we not have anything better called for a 4th n 1?

btw whoever was at Center got completely blown up there.

100% agree. I was actually saying that out loud (to myself) most of the game. "What the F, this isn't preseason guys!" Players out of position, players dropping balls, bad and predictable play calls. All-in-all it looked like guys that hadn't played football in months and a HC that just let it play out.

That was Rhyan that got blown up at Center, as did Morgan and Musgrave. That play was THE most critical play of the game and it looked like back yard football. I put that on MLF. Call a fricking TO if you need to, but get your guys ready to play a KEY play.

 

[adambr2]

Matter of fact on this above 4th n 1 last night. If Jacobs baits everyone and last second pitched it to Jordan and Wicks fades out for a 3 yard comeback he can play pickle. Either dump it off or run it if they don’t run downhill on him.

Theres no creativity to anything we do. That looked like Preseason Vanilla script. Do we not have anything better called for a 4th n 1? That’s a play you’d see Detroit pr KC toss in a pre designed trick play and it goes for 10 yards.

btw whoever was at Center got completely blown up there.

I want the biggest MLF apologist here to convince us that this is a man who trusts his HC.

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[Magooch]

I have seen a lot of sentiment suggesting that Love should've audibled out of the last play there at the end.

I don't entirely disagree however I wonder exactly how much freedom/latitude he is being given there.

Take this quote from Tom Silverstein: "Jacobs said after he finished a group interview at his locker that the play did not have an option for Love to audible into a better play."

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I want the biggest MLF apologist here to convince us that this is a man who trusts his HC.

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I knew what they were doing and I was sitting in my recliner, drinking a beer!

So the players are now saying out loud, exactly what us fans have been screaming for over a year. MLF is a predictable play caller, that can't think on his feet.