T Minus 10 months

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Hey gang,

I'm just gonna come out and say it. Gutey's FA/Trade decisions this week have been straight up incompetent and give up other deals in the past his deals have to pay off this year. We give up our best or 2nd best Interior D-Line player for an 8th year Linebacker most of us haven't heard of. THEN we trade a starting pass rusher for a Day 3 pick. Let me break down the issue with each trade

1.) The Colts trade...Coby Wooden is too much to give up. If not for Brooks he'd easily be the best DL we've got. Yes there was a regression last year, but it's a one off, he'll roar back, and now as a member of the Colts.

2.) Cowboys trade...This one I'm gonna catch it for. I think Rashawn Gary is our best EDGE Rusher. He's much better than Van Ness has ever been, he's better than Enagbare, hes gonna be better than Cox for at least 1 if not 2 more seasons. He was a top 10 pick...and we get a 4th for him? After Jerry robbed us blind on the Micah deal by forcing him to throw in Kenny Clark?

Let's look at this honestly...most of us thought we cleaned up with those 2 1s and 2 2s in 2019. Gutey turned it into 3 guys not 4...two are on different teams now...and the third can't stay off the trainer's table. Oh and the 2 guys who aren't on our team...are the 2 1s!

With all this being sswindled and or swindling himself that Gutey has put this fan base through he has to win a ring THIS year, and if not the fan base has to force him out.

 

[OldSchool101]

We give up our best or 2nd best Interior D-Line player for an 8th year Linebacker most of us haven't heard of.

The reason we grabbed a LB is because Q wanted North of $13Mil+ and his play is in the $9-10Mil imo range. Here we plugged a hole with a LB who is actually similar to Quay, but costs us $7Mil or $4.5-6mil less annually. That’s a big difference.

Coby Wooden is too much to give up. If not for Brooks he'd easily be the best DL we've got. Yes there was a regression last year, but it's a one off, he'll roar back, and now as a member of the Colts.

Colby Wooden switched positions and graded out just over a PFF 50 grading, which is slightly a below average starter. While PFF isn’t the end all, Wooden is not an irreplaceable Nose.

I think Rashawn Gary is our best EDGE Rusher. He's much better than Van Ness has ever been, he's better than Enagbare, hes gonna be better than Cox for at least 1 if not 2 more seasons. He was a top 10 pick...and we get a 4th for him?

He is our best outside of Micah. However Results last year showed Lukas closed that GAP tighter. Both were effective with Double teams. The difference here is Lukas is still ascending and Gary is holding streets to slightly descending. He’s also about ready to hit us with $28Mil on the Cap ledger. That’s too much for a player of his current state.

 

[CarryTheG14]

Hey gang,

I'm just gonna come out and say it. Gutey's FA/Trade decisions this week have been straight up incompetent and give up other deals in the past his deals have to pay off this year. We give up our best or 2nd best Interior D-Line player for an 8th year Linebacker most of us haven't heard of. THEN we trade a starting pass rusher for a Day 3 pick. Let me break down the issue with each trade

1.) The Colts trade...Coby Wooden is too much to give up. If not for Brooks he'd easily be the best DL we've got. Yes there was a regression last year, but it's a one off, he'll roar back, and now as a member of the Colts.

2.) Cowboys trade...This one I'm gonna catch it for. I think Rashawn Gary is our best EDGE Rusher. He's much better than Van Ness has ever been, he's better than Enagbare, hes gonna be better than Cox for at least 1 if not 2 more seasons. He was a top 10 pick...and we get a 4th for him? After Jerry robbed us blind on the Micah deal by forcing him to throw in Kenny Clark?

Let's look at this honestly...most of us thought we cleaned up with those 2 1s and 2 2s in 2019. Gutey turned it into 3 guys not 4...two are on different teams now...and the third can't stay off the trainer's table. Oh and the 2 guys who aren't on our team...are the 2 1s!

With all this being sswindled and or swindling himself that Gutey has put this fan base through he has to win a ring THIS year, and if not the fan base has to force him out.

On Gary, he was our most accomplished pass rusher. I'm willing to bet if LVN stays healthy, he's significantly better than Gary this year. When he played he showed way more than Gary did. I don't know how anyone could watch the 2nd half of the season and be excited to bring him back.

 

[milani]

The reason we grabbed a LB is because Q wanted North of $13Mil+ and his play is in the $9-10Mil imo range. Here we plugged a hole with a LB who is actually similar to Quay, but costs us $7Mil or $4.5-6mil less annually. That’s a big difference.

Colby Wooden switched positions and graded out just over a PFF 50 grading, which is slightly a below average starter. While PFF isn’t the end all, Wooden is not an irreplaceable Nose.

He is our best outside of Micah. However Results last year showed Lukas closed that GAP tighter. Both were effective with Double teams. The difference here is Lukas is still ascending and Gary is holding streets to slightly descending. He’s also about ready to hit us with $28Mil on the Cap ledger. That’s too much for a player of his current state.

I think we will see a team with a lot of different faces on the field than the last few seasons. We already are in the coaching staff. How that plays out we will see. Cap management is important. We could see some pleasant surprises but we could see some very unpleasant ones. Let us hope there is a plan for these adjustments. I still fear a potential repeat of the 2004 to 2005 seasons. When a team shows weaknesses and collapses at the end of one season the efforts to make changes and bring the cap under control look positive. But it could also result in total disaster.

 

[Firethorn1001]

With all this being sswindled and or swindling himself that Gutey has put this fan base through he has to win a ring THIS year, and if not the fan base has to force him out.

Not sure what a fan base is going to do to force Gute out. Tar and feathering hasn't been a thing for centuries. Stop buying tickets? Guess if entire base doesn't renew their season tickets and everyone on the waiting list declines, but that seems unlikely.

Which leaves sternly worded letters, tweets and phone calls, but not sure that is going to go anywhere either.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Not sure what a fan base is going to do to force Gute out. Tar and feathering hasn't been a thing for centuries. Stop buying tickets? Guess if entire base doesn't renew their season tickets and everyone on the waiting list declines, but that seems unlikely.

Which leaves sternly worded letters, tweets and phone calls, but not sure that is going to go anywhere either.

Wasn't it 2005 when the mass exodus happened in prime time? If so...wasn't it '06 when we got a new coach, new GM and even possibly a new team President? Now I'm NOT saying ditch Ed Policy after a year...I'm just asking wasn't that when we got Murphy?

 

[Firethorn1001]

Wasn't it 2005 when the mass exodus happened in prime time? If so...wasn't it '06 when we got a new coach, new GM and even possibly a new team President? Now I'm NOT saying ditch Ed Policy after a year...I'm just asking wasn't that when we got Murphy?

That is a 4-12 firing v 'fire if they don't win a Super Bowl'. Massive difference.

And no idea on what contract extension they all signed, but if it is like a 4 year extension I see almost no chance that they fire Gute and eat that contract no matter how bad they do. He would literally need to pick a punter in every round for them to do that.

However, at the end of the day, I still see the fan base having no impact on that.

 

[gopkrs]

I don't see a real scream by fans about getting rid of Gute. Maybe I'm going deaf?

 

[tynimiller]

Hey gang,

I'm just gonna come out and say it. Gutey's FA/Trade decisions this week have been straight up incompetent and give up other deals in the past his deals have to pay off this year. We give up our best or 2nd best Interior D-Line player for an 8th year Linebacker most of us haven't heard of. THEN we trade a starting pass rusher for a Day 3 pick. Let me break down the issue with each trade

1.) The Colts trade...Coby Wooden is too much to give up. If not for Brooks he'd easily be the best DL we've got. Yes there was a regression last year, but it's a one off, he'll roar back, and now as a member of the Colts.

2.) Cowboys trade...This one I'm gonna catch it for. I think Rashawn Gary is our best EDGE Rusher. He's much better than Van Ness has ever been, he's better than Enagbare, hes gonna be better than Cox for at least 1 if not 2 more seasons. He was a top 10 pick...and we get a 4th for him? After Jerry robbed us blind on the Micah deal by forcing him to throw in Kenny Clark?

Let's look at this honestly...most of us thought we cleaned up with those 2 1s and 2 2s in 2019. Gutey turned it into 3 guys not 4...two are on different teams now...and the third can't stay off the trainer's table. Oh and the 2 guys who aren't on our team...are the 2 1s!

With all this being sswindled and or swindling himself that Gutey has put this fan base through he has to win a ring THIS year, and if not the fan base has to force him out.

Do you know how many colts fan friends I have that are pissed? NONE of them know or care who this "Colby Wooden" character is they got in return....

Most mainstream fans simply don't know other players beyond "big names"...


I disagree so staunchly with some of the rest I'm just going to bow out respectfully as it seems the divide is too great.

 

[tynimiller]

I still see the fan base having no impact on that.

THANK SWEET BABY JESUS OF THIS

 

[Firethorn1001]

THANK SWEET BABY JESUS OF THIS

Fans would purge so many coaches/GMs that even Stalin would say 'Ya.. you might want to slow down there'

 

[milani]

Wasn't it 2005 when the mass exodus happened in prime time? If so...wasn't it '06 when we got a new coach, new GM and even possibly a new team President? Now I'm NOT saying ditch Ed Policy after a year...I'm just asking wasn't that when we got Murphy?

It absolutely was.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

That is a 4-12 firing v 'fire if they don't win a Super Bowl'. Massive difference.

And no idea on what contract extension they all signed, but if it is like a 4 year extension I see almost no chance that they fire Gute and eat that contract no matter how bad they do. He would literally need to pick a punter in every round for them to do that.

However, at the end of the day, I still see the fan base having no impact on that.

My point with the original part of the post that people are taking off with is this. Someone basically said 'what are the fans gonna do?' Well we saw in 2005 what they did, the mass exodus led to heads rolling. I also see so many holes on this team that it's gonna take 3 years of drafts and FA to fill the current holes without making NEW holes. Seriously if something catastrophic happens to Jordan Love we're drafting #1 next year and DALLAS holds our pick

 

[Firethorn1001]

My point with the original part of the post that people are taking off with is this. Someone basically said 'what are the fans gonna do?' Well we saw in 2005 what they did, the mass exodus led to heads rolling. I also see so many holes on this team that it's gonna take 3 years of drafts and FA to fill the current holes without making NEW holes. Seriously if something catastrophic happens to Jordan Love we're drafting #1 next year and DALLAS holds our pick

3 years of draft picks to fill holes is a rebuild. If you truly think this team needs a rebuild I have no idea where to go with that.

As for 'mass exodus' that drove change I'm sorry, I just don't know what you are referring to. Sherman was 4-12 and was fired. I don't recall any groundswell of fan reaction where it forced TT to fire him.

 

[El Guapo]

This is the internet - home to many opinions wise and crazy.

 

[milani]

3 years of draft picks to fill holes is a rebuild. If you truly think this team needs a rebuild I have no idea where to go with that.

As for 'mass exodus' that drove change I'm sorry, I just don't know what you are referring to. Sherman was 4-12 and was fired. I don't recall any groundswell of fan reaction where it forced TT to fire him.

What was ironic was that TT had just extended Sherman when he took over. Sherman's only losing season was 2005. He had 4 playoff appearances and 3 division titles in 5 straight seasons. Yet, TT was somewhat to blame for what happened in 2005 as well, although he inherited cap issues. He could not fire himself.

 

[El Guapo]

What was ironic was that TT had just extended Sherman when he took over. Sherman's only losing season was 2005. He had 4 playoff appearances and 3 division titles in 5 straight seasons. Yet, TT was somewhat to blame for what happened in 2005 as well, although he inherited cap issues. He could not fire himself.

Sherman might have been a very good coach, but he was a complete idiot as GM. He made some of the worst FA blunders in Green Bay history (Joe Johnson and others), drafted only one offensive lineman in total, and flat out failed failed failed in the personnel department. Bringing in Thompson was a great move by the organization. Once TT got to personally evaluate Sherman, he saw how Mike essentially let Favre do whatever he wanted....that had to stop. Enter Mike McCarthy who reinstated the coach-player system and Favre had one of the best seasons of his career in 2007.

 

[milani]

Sherman might have been a very good coach, but he was a complete idiot as GM. He made some of the worst FA blunders in Green Bay history (Joe Johnson and others), drafted only one offensive lineman in total, and flat out failed failed failed in the personnel department. Bringing in Thompson was a great move by the organization. Once TT got to personally evaluate Sherman, he saw how Mike essentially let Favre do whatever he wanted....that had to stop. Enter Mike McCarthy who reinstated the coach-player system and Favre had one of the best seasons of his career in 2007.

I agree with that but TT did not do anything to help the Packers going into 2005 and during that season. He failed to address the loss of Marco Rivera and Mike Wahle. Then C Mike Flanagan was injured for good after 2 games. The Packers had the best or near best O line for 4 years running. And Favre, who privately suggested player acquisitions, went to TT and pleaded to try and keep Wahle at least. When a suspect O line is not addressed it affects the pass protection, the running game, and can result in more injuries, in addition to forcing the defense to be on the field llonger. We lost All Pro, Ahman Green and also Najeh Davenport due to the O line. And we get WFL, Samkon Gado. It is a wonder Favre was still standing after that season. TT learned some after that season. But he was certainly as responsible as Sherman for a 4-12 record that did not have to be.
Even though we won SB 45, TT did nothing to replace Ryan Grant who went down in the first half of the first game that year except wait for James Starks later in the season. He could have grabbed Beast Mode who was available early in the season. At least we have a GM now that will try to make moves. He does not stand pat.

 

[El Guapo]

I agree with that but TT did not do anything to help the Packers going into 2005 and during that season. He failed to address the loss of Marco Rivera and Mike Wahle. Then C Mike Flanagan was injured for good after 2 games. The Packers had the best or near best O line for 4 years running. And Favre, who privately suggested player acquisitions, went to TT and pleaded to try and keep Wahle at least. When a suspect O line is not addressed it affects the pass protection, the running game, and can result in more injuries, in addition to forcing the defense to be on the field llonger. We lost All Pro, Ahman Green and also Najeh Davenport due to the O line. And we get WFL, Samkon Gado. It is a wonder Favre was still standing after that season. TT learned some after that season. But he was certainly as responsible as Sherman for a 4-12 record that did not have to be.
Even though we won SB 45, TT did nothing to replace Ryan Grant who went down in the first half of the first game that year except wait for James Starks later in the season. He could have grabbed Beast Mode who was available early in the season. At least we have a GM now that will try to make moves. He does not stand pat.

I agree with your recall. To be fair though, Sherman created the cap hell and there was no easy way for TT to keep Wahle or Rivera and there were no decent replacements waiting in the wings. You're right that TT should have done more, but I say that not fully remembering the cap situation or who else was available at the time.

Maybe it was also TT's way of getting Favre to move on, since he wasn't playing well. From about 2001 on, other teams' mantras became "make Favre beat you" because he was a shell of his former self. Maybe he didn't mind getting Brett to S-or get off the pot.

IDK, I'm just grabbing at straws here...

 

[rmontro]

Even though we won SB 45, TT did nothing to replace Ryan Grant who went down in the first half of the first game that year except wait for James Starks later in the season. He could have grabbed Beast Mode who was available early in the season.

As you say, TT put together the team that won SB XLV, so he has to get credit for that. And he picked Aaron Rodgers and signed Charles Woodson, so he certainly had some highlights. But my memory of TT's teams overall was that there was usually some weakness that the team was in need of filling, and he would rarely fill them, just hope that someone would step up. It could be frustrating.

 

[Jayzee1981]

Guys all this was inevitable. We’ve been used to just Rodgers taking up how much, kicking cans down the curb. Better draft capital then ‍ One, we have two massive contracts that we have to build around the proper way. It ain’t like it used to be. Two, Cap is going up every year and they know it. He’s willing to hit FAs of value. ‘27 comp picks will be insane and maybe we can trade 1 or 2 of those to kinda make up for no 1st rders these2 years. They ain’t done. I see them going for a DL via trade.

 

[milani]

Guys all this was inevitable. We’ve been used to just Rodgers taking up how much, kicking cans down the curb. Better draft capital then ‍ One, we have two massive contracts that we have to build around the proper way. It ain’t like it used to be. Two, Cap is going up every year and they know it. He’s willing to hit FAs of value. ‘27 comp picks will be insane and maybe we can trade 1 or 2 of those to kinda make up for no 1st rders these2 years. They ain’t done. I see them going for a DL via trade.

To show how bad the offensive line became the Packers opened 2005 in Detroit against the Lions. They scored a measly 3 points! Our replacement team equaled that in Minneapolis recently.

 

[OldSchool101]

Somehow I don’t think this Roster is nearly as bad as some are making It. Had GB went from a Top 5 most injury impacted team to middle of the league injuries? We likely finish 10-7 or 11-6 and possibly even a division winner.

That said we’re not done quite yet. The estimate I saw earlier was we have around $17Mil, but keep in mind we have a post Jun release adding another $8.8mil? We’ll likely do 1 more medium grade FA signing (or possibly trade?). Possibly a medium high echelon like DE, Sweat. That or we might go more bargain shopping 1-2 players in that $5Mil annual each type area.

GB had a good chance of bringing back these players July-Oct timeframe. These are all players who missed significant time with significant injuries

Devonte Wyatt
Tucker Kraft
Micah Parsons
Colin Oliver

I don’t see our losses as cataclysmic. Franklin is a very comparable player to Quay with maybe a small to negligible variance.

Losing Colby Wooden isn’t scary. He played admirably after gaining weight and moving to Nose, but let’s not pretend he’s better than Javon Hargrave either.

We also have s significant number of players who now have 1 or 2 seasons behind them. Guys like Savion, Belton, Sorrell, Oliver, Brinson, John Williams, Oladapo, Glover, Jonathan Ford.

St Juste isn't a high echelon player, but this far he’s preferable over losing Nate Hobbs.

We did get an upgrade at Return Specialist also over doing the musical chairs game at Returner.

once Micah is back, opponents will have regular rotation of Hargrave or Wyatt or both causing problems and Micah or Lukas coming off the Edge. Cox is probably very comparable to Enagbare etc.

Yet now we have Oliver and Sorrell getting a little more comfortable in their Sophomore season.

About the only concern for me is backup QB. I would’ve love to have Joe Flacco he’s a top flight backup.

 

[tynimiller]

Somehow I don’t think this Roster is nearly as bad as some are making It. Had GB went from a Top 5 most injury impacted team to middle of the league injuries? We likely finish 10-7 or 11-6 and possibly even a division winner.

That said we’re not done quite yet. The estimate I saw earlier was we have around $17Mil, but keep in mind we have a post Jun release adding another $8.8mil? We’ll likely do 1 more medium grade FA signing (or possibly trade?). Possibly a medium high echelon like DE, Sweat. That or we might go more bargain shopping 1-2 players in that $5Mil annual each type area.

GB had a good chance of bringing back these players July-Oct timeframe. These are all players who missed significant time with significant injuries

Devonte Wyatt
Tucker Kraft
Micah Parsons
Colin Oliver

I don’t see our losses as cataclysmic. Franklin is a very comparable player to Quay with maybe a small to negligible variance.

Losing Colby Wooden isn’t scary. He played admirably after gaining weight and moving to Nose, but let’s not pretend he’s better than Javon Hargrave either.

We also have s significant number of players who now have 1 or 2 seasons behind them. Guys like Savion, Belton, Sorrell, Oliver, Brinson, John Williams, Oladapo, Glover, Jonathan Ford.

St Juste isn't a high echelon player, but this far he’s preferable over losing Nate Hobbs.

We did get an upgrade at Return Specialist also over doing the musical chairs game at Returner.

once Micah is back, opponents will have regular rotation of Hargrave or Wyatt or both causing problems and Micah or Lukas coming off the Edge. Cox is probably very comparable to Enagbare etc.

Yet now we have Oliver and Sorrell getting a little more comfortable in their Sophomore season.

About the only concern for me is backup QB. I would’ve love to have Joe Flacco he’s a top flight backup.

Right there with ya, edge and our OL jelling are the biggest factors - outside of that man this roster is constructed excellently!

 

[milani]

Somehow I don’t think this Roster is nearly as bad as some are making It. Had GB went from a Top 5 most injury impacted team to middle of the league injuries? We likely finish 10-7 or 11-6 and possibly even a division winner.

That said we’re not done quite yet. The estimate I saw earlier was we have around $17Mil, but keep in mind we have a post Jun release adding another $8.8mil? We’ll likely do 1 more medium grade FA signing (or possibly trade?). Possibly a medium high echelon like DE, Sweat. That or we might go more bargain shopping 1-2 players in that $5Mil annual each type area.

GB had a good chance of bringing back these players July-Oct timeframe. These are all players who missed significant time with significant injuries

Devonte Wyatt
Tucker Kraft
Micah Parsons
Colin Oliver

I don’t see our losses as cataclysmic. Franklin is a very comparable player to Quay with maybe a small to negligible variance.

Losing Colby Wooden isn’t scary. He played admirably after gaining weight and moving to Nose, but let’s not pretend he’s better than Javon Hargrave either.

We also have s significant number of players who now have 1 or 2 seasons behind them. Guys like Savion, Belton, Sorrell, Oliver, Brinson, John Williams, Oladapo, Glover, Jonathan Ford.

St Juste isn't a high echelon player, but this far he’s preferable over losing Nate Hobbs.

We did get an upgrade at Return Specialist also over doing the musical chairs game at Returner.

once Micah is back, opponents will have regular rotation of Hargrave or Wyatt or both causing problems and Micah or Lukas coming off the Edge. Cox is probably very comparable to Enagbare etc.

Yet now we have Oliver and Sorrell getting a little more comfortable in their Sophomore season.

About the only concern for me is backup QB. I would’ve love to have Joe Flacco he’s a top flight backup.

And Fitzpatrick.