MLF decision making process

[longtimefan]

No. It means we can’t understand when you get into Philly27 with :31 sec and a timeout? You have 1 try to get closer than a 44 yarder. Then 1 try to roll out from the Philly24 to take a shot if coverage brakes down OR throw it away. 3 points was vital in situation and we traded it for a Longer developing 15+ throw.Which btw still doesn’t = 7 points.
Did we think honestly that Philly isn’t coming full throttle? They’re not letting us drop 10 yards! I wouldnt and I’m an idiot!

Once a huddle brakes who is to blame

 

[milani]

What do you say about the three catchable passes that ended drives?

We prepped Melton for defense all year. And suddenly he has to make a pass catch.

 

[longtimefan]

We prepped Melton for defense all year. And suddenly he has to make a pass catch.

If it’s in his hands uncontested

Then yeah

 

[milani]

So how does Matt have such a great record when everybody said he was riding Aaron’s ‘s cocktails… he still has a winning record without Aaron what is the problem that Matt cannot figure out

He may not finish this one with a winning record.

 

[longtimefan]

He may not finish this one with a winning record.

Why can’t he find issues

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So how does Matt have such a great record when everybody said he was riding Aaron’s ‘s cocktails… he still has a winning record without Aaron what is the problem that Matt cannot figure out

Matt isn't a good in game play caller IMHO. Nor does he make adjustments in game. When Rodgers was the QB, he covered up for the deficiency with lots of audibles. Love has better players around him, than Rodgers did in his final years in GB.

 

[adambr2]

So how does Matt have such a great record when everybody said he was riding Aaron’s ‘s cocktails… he still has a winning record without Aaron what is the problem that Matt cannot figure out

Cool. What good is a “great record” in the regular season when you win at a .375 clip in the postseason?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Once a huddle brakes who is to blame

Depends.

If it's a bad play call, I put that on the OC. Great call, bad execution, players.

 

[Magooch]

Let’s play a hypothetical here.

This defense has been great. Hafley will likely be a hot commodity in the offseason.

Pretend your options are:

1. Retain Hafley by firing LaFleur and promoting Hafley to HC

2. Retain LaFleur and lose Hafley to another coaching opportunity

Which would you pick?

 

[Magooch]

I saw it said elsewhere, something to the effect that “Matt LaFleur wants to call plays for a team that he doesn’t have. Opponents know this and they are happy to let him keep calling those plays. And he just keeps obliging”

 

[OldSchool101]

Once a huddle brakes who is to blame

Everyone. The Offense and Coaching Staff have to understand this isn’t a shootout. This was the lowest scoring game by Philly this season and a tie
0-0 game. Getting points has multiple benefits there. I said it before the season, before the game, before the half, that this lost FG attempt would haunt us. We go through this same scenario with different color paint and we just do not know what we’re doing. That’s the only reasonable answer I can think of.
Had this going for a longer throw on edge of FG range been a singular “new” problem?? I’d not have even so much as bothered.

For record I’m not mad we lost. This was a quality team and they scored 10 points all day. Their Offense had little to no answers. In these games FG’s are like TD’s. I am mad that we can’t learn from Mistakes over and over. Again if it’s a 28-21 Halftime flow you might be thinking TD there. This Game was the epitome of a Defensive chess match.

I truly believe MLF does not trust his Defense.

 

[Magooch]

As it relates to “decision making process”

- don’t trust your kicker to attempt a 57 yard field goal
- don’t trust your kicker to attempt a 59 yard field goal
- don’t play the guy who has the longest FG in franchise history at 61 yards
- have your kicker attempt a 64 yard field goal and see that his practice attempt with his preferred K ball comes up short
- send him back out to try it again anyways
- lose by 3

Someone walk me through the decision making here.

 

[adambr2]

This right here.

This is embarrassing.

Is there anyone in the state of Wisconsin who didn’t see an inside zone coming on that 4th and 1?

 

[Snoops]

Honestly it’s just a rough stretch. Green Bay has poor receivers they dropped multiple crucial catches which would have changed the outcome and love is an average qb if anyone’s says he elite is wrong he is average. Mid qb play with horrendous play calling “as of lately” and crucial drops from receivers is not a recipe for winning. They will be fine but they will be super lucky to make the playoffs. They just don’t have anyone scary on offense. Maybe golden can be but it’s going to take a while he doesn’t get the ball
Much

 

[adambr2]

Honestly it’s just a rough stretch. Green Bay has poor receivers they dropped multiple crucial catches which would have changed the outcome and love is an average qb if anyone’s says he elite is wrong he is average. Mid qb play with horrendous play calling “as of lately” and crucial drops from receivers is not a recipe for winning. They will be fine but they will be super lucky to make the playoffs.

Being super lucky to make the playoffs is not “fine”.

The organization did not spend 184 million dollars and two first round picks plus another starter on a superstar for the defense with the goal of maybe being good enough to sneak into the playoffs as a 7 seed and be one and done.

 

[tynimiller]

Don’t care about regular season winning percentage. Meaningless. Has he won anything tangible outside of a division championship? Mike McCarthy was once the winningest head coach in Packer history (besides Lambeau). At least he’s got a Lombardi and a street named after him.

Okay, I have to push back some because I’m sorry the logic of “don’t care about regular season winning percentage. Meaningless.” Is just asinine.

I get the construction of this statement and it isn’t void of substance but you cannot even begin to discuss playoffs without getting there.

MLF is far from a terrible coach. I actually think right now he is performing like his team - good but not great, yet. To believe he is some worthless bottom of the league coach is purposefully avoiding subjective and non-subjective facts IMO. (Not saying you specifically are, your comment merely prompted the thought)

———————
Could the team swing to be great? Absolutely, he and his team have shown themselves to be fully capable of hanging with good teams (not just this year) and even beating good teams, but great teams win the games they should (Cle/Car) and likely punch a W out of either Dallas or last night.

Just Good teams/coaches at week 10 have absolutely went on streaks and made deep playoff runs…they’ve also stayed good and not great or regressed.

 

[adambr2]

Okay, I have to push back some because I’m sorry the logic of “don’t care about regular season winning percentage. Meaningless.” Is just asinine.

I get the construction of this statement and it isn’t void of substance but you cannot even begin to discuss playoffs without getting there.

MLF is far from a terrible coach. I actually think right now he is performing like his team - good but not great, yet. To believe he is some worthless bottom of the league coach is purposefully avoiding subjective and non-subjective facts IMO. (Not saying you specifically are, your comment merely prompted the thought)

———————
Could the team swing to be great? Absolutely, he and his team have shown themselves to be fully capable of hanging with good teams (not just this year) and even beating good teams, but great teams win the games they should (Cle/Car) and likely punch a W out of either Dallas or last night.

Just Good teams/coaches at week 10 have absolutely went on streaks and made deep playoff runs…they’ve also stayed good and not great or regressed.

Ok, regular season does matter, but when you’re going on 7 years of a lack any real postseason success — when things have grown stale, conversations about whether a new voice and new leadership are needed, are valid and sometimes even needed — regardless of what your regular season record is.

Better?

 

[adambr2]

As it relates to “decision making process”

- don’t trust your kicker to attempt a 57 yard field goal
- don’t trust your kicker to attempt a 59 yard field goal
- don’t play the guy who has the longest FG in franchise history at 61 yards
- have your kicker attempt a 64 yard field goal and see that his practice attempt with his preferred K ball comes up short
- send him back out to try it again anyways
- lose by 3

Someone walk me through the decision making here.

Because this is the whole full circle back to my original point in the thread.

Matt doesn’t have a decision making process. Every decision he makes is reactionary and emotional, not logic-driven.

It’s all about what he’s feeling in his gut at that very moment in time.

 

[tynimiller]

MLF shows no confidence in his QB. He makes him sit in a collapsing pocket all night long. Did he ever call a QB roll out, with a RPO?

I know Love has some developing to do, but he will never get there with a HC/OC that constantly fails him.

Disagree Love is fully capable of cooking, problem is MLF most of the time acts like it is a cooking class and has to not ask him to do too much….LOVE CAN COOK…LET HIM COOK. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again this team has the QB and the play caller/designer to pass at a 60-40 percent clip to run. Right from the jump I would love to see us pass the entire first drive every play.

 

[tynimiller]

I don’t know how exactly I’d define “postseason accomplishment” but under LaFleur we have managed a grand total of THREE postseason victories in six years despite multiple #1 seeds. However you define it, I expect more than that.

#1 seeds? (Correction - misread and thought you were saying we’d only ever been #1, it’s happened twice)

 

[milani]

This right here.

This is embarrassing.

Is there anyone in the state of Wisconsin who didn’t see an inside zone coming on that 4th and 1?

" OH, here Brandon. Here's the football! "

 

[Magooch]

I wouldn't say regular season record is meaningless, but at the same time IMO we have lost sight of things if that's our barometer for success around here.

Looking at the upcoming schedule, at this point it honestly feels like we are now facing an uphill battle just to make it into the playoffs, which would have sounded ridiculous just a month ago, but doesn't seem out of the question now. And even if that is the case, I think we can all agree that it is going to take a pretty serious turnaround for us to make much of a run even if we DO make the playoffs.

And if that is the case, we would be looking at having finished 7 years with LaFleur and have THREE postseason wins to show for it. And as I have mentioned before, Policy made it clear he doesn't want a lame-duck head coach in the final year of his contract. By all accounts he is looking at LaFleur (and Gute) as either needing to extend their contracts or let them go.

So like I said, regular season success does mean something, but I don't see how you can look at three playoff wins in seven years and convince yourself to extend with that same coach and that he's going to get you "over the hump" if you give him a few more years. I would agree that LaFleur is a good, not great coach right now, but I just don't see the coaching-progression to make me think things will be appreciably different if he's given more time.

I mean consider if we were talking about a player, not a coach. Let's imagine some hypothetical player (I'm not going to attach a name so as to avoid coloring w/ bias lol) has been our starting QB for that same 7-year window. He's been good in the regular season but has very little success in the postseason. He continues to make the same mistakes and preparation issues year after year and says he's going to fix them but never does. He's not shown significant growth from his first years as a starter through years 5, 6, 7. Would anybody be convinced that this QB is "the guy" and that we should extend their contract and that they'll come good if given more time? I just can't see it.

Broadly speaking, I am not one to call for guys to get fired. Firing people sucks, and getting fired sucks. I don't wish that on someone. A coach has to be pretty egregiously bad in my book to get fired and even then if it happens in-season it's pretty much a desperation move. I can't think of too many instances of a team "saving their season" by firing their coach. SO I'm not asking for that. But it's getting harder and harder for me to make a case to continue on with Matt following this season (and I know that would technically be a "firing", but I think it's different too lol). For me he is always going to be like a Norv Turner type of coach. Good OC, limited HC. Good in the regular season, limited success in the postseason.

 

[milani]

Disagree Love is fully capable of cooking, problem is MLF most of the time acts like it is a cooking class and has to not ask him to do too much….LOVE CAN COOK…LET HIM COOK. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again this team has the QB and the play caller/designer to pass at a 60-40 percent clip to run. Right from the jump I would love to see us pass the entire first drive every play.

I still think Love AND his receivers do not consistently see the coverage, particularly who has single coverage. Progressions are one thing but the best chance to complete a pass to move sticks comes first. And you do not have to get it all in one play. Rodgers was very good at this even when he slowed down. MLF has to do a better job of this.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Rolling back to the Packers 4th and 1 play last night. To me, this is where MLF fundamentally gets it wrong as the Packers OC/HC. This is THE play of the game. Don't pick up the 1st down, the game is basically over. Pick it up and you still have plenty of time to continue the drive for a game tying FG or game winning TD.

The play is linked below, but here are the important facts:

- 4th and 1
- Ball on Packer 44
- Clock running, with 1:32 left in game
- Play clock at :29
- Packers with 2 timeouts
- Eagles have 7 in the box
- Love in shotgun, Jacobs standing 6 yards behind LOS

I don't know about anyone else, but I am wondering Why TF the Packers are in scramble mode. RELAX and get the 1st down. MLF should have seen this and burned a TO to think about it and settle the troops. Instead, they rush and the play call absolutely stinks. A terrible call in that situation, against a defense like the Eagles and especially once MLF/Love saw the Eagles alignment. You need 1 fricking yard and you line up in that formation and think you are fooling ANYONE? Jacobs gets hit 4 yards behind the LOS. This play is dead in the water from the moment the Packers rushed up and snapped the ball. Not to mention the Packers illegal formation penalty on Wicks would have negated a first down if somehow Jacobs breaks 4-5 tackles. Come on MLF, you don't have a rock solid go to call for this situation? Almost surprised you didn't call a hail Mary to the EZ.

Final notes on specific players. Musgrave, Tom and Morgan all get demolished at the LOS. Musgrave is particularly just terrible with his attempt at blocking. Wicks is standing around like he doesn't even know what the call is and then when he wakes up, the DB on him flies right by.

Has MLF forbidden Love to call audibles?

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[milani]

Rolling back to the Packers 4th and 1 play last night. To me, this is where MLF fundamentally gets it wrong as the Packers OC/HC. This is THE play of the game. Don't pick up the 1st down, the game is basically over. Pick it up and you still have plenty of time to continue the drive for a game tying FG or game winning TD.

The play is linked below, but here are the important facts:

- 4th and 1
- Ball on Packer 44
- Clock running, with 1:32 left in game
- Play clock at :29
- Packers with 2 timeouts
- Eagles have 7 in the box
- Love in shotgun, Jacobs standing 6 yards behind LOS

I don't know about anyone else, but I am wondering Why TF the Packers are in scramble mode. RELAX and get the 1st down. MLF should have seen this and burned a TO to think about it and settle the troops. Instead, they rush and the play call absolutely stinks. A terrible call in that situation, against a defense like the Eagles and especially once MLF/Love saw the Eagles alignment. You need 1 fricking yard and you line up in that formation and think you are fooling ANYONE? Jacobs gets hit 4 yards behind the LOS. This play is dead in the water from the moment the Packers rushed up and snapped the ball. Not to mention the Packers illegal formation penalty on Wicks would have negated a first down if somehow Jacobs breaks 4-5 tackles. Come on MLF, you don't have a rock solid go to call for this situation? Almost surprised you didn't call a hail Mary to the EZ.

Final notes on specific players. Musgrave, Tom and Morgan all get demolished at the LOS. Musgrave is particularly just terrible with his attempt at blocking. Wicks is standing around like he doesn't even know what the call is and then when he wakes up, the DB on him flies right by.

Has MLF forbidden Love to call audibles?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

It was terrible to say the least. Now if the Eagles were in that situation they would run Barkley but with a different formation. Probably put a blocker in the backfield. Maybe use 3 TEs like the Ravens. And give the QB the option to fake and rollout. Maybe even use a timeout. You are up against a top DL, not the worst in the league. This situation will come up for Dan Campbell and the Lions when they face Philly. Watch how they play it.