Wide Receiver talent!

[adambr2]

i said this offseason, if "god forbid" nelson were to get hurt. janis, and hissimilar ability to stretch the field, would have a huge year. nelson got hirt. and i dont think jones can do what janis can in that sense. will be interesting to see which way mccarthy leans?

It's apparent that the Packers value the skills and upside of Janis, but I don't expect him to have a big impact this year as long as the other 4 stay healthy. It's clear that his game is still a work in progress as far as route running and understanding the playbook before he can earn the trust of Rodgers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I assumed that because of the injury to Abbrederis and Nelson, it was the only reason White was on the 53 anyway. I suspect he was a guy pegged for cutting once the suspensions were up and we put Guion and Jones back on the Dline.

I don't think the Packers would have waived White if the team hadn't signed Jones. That would have resulted in having only four receivers on the roster.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I'd put the over/under on Janis at 25 catches.

Barring injury to another receiver, I'd take the under.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think the Packers would have waived White if the team hadn't signed Jones. That would have resulted in having only four receivers on the roster.

I'm sure they had plans in place. I don't think they would have gone the entire season with only 4, but in the short term I could see it and let the season play out. Injuries happen and spaces are created just in the natural course of the season or a bubble guy that was on the 53 gets cut from a different position etc.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Barring injury to another receiver, I'd take the under.

My original thought was 15-20. However, upon further consideration, there are enough question marks among the presumptive top 4 to give him a bump.

Then there's the injury risks. Given that the Packers so far have given no indications that Cobb would be moved outside, with the Jones signing reinforcing that, while Montgomery's chief utility is out of the slot, a minor injury to either Adams or Jones could actually earn Janis a couple of starts.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It's apparent that the Packers value the skills and upside of Janis, but I don't expect him to have a big impact this year as long as the other 4 stay healthy. It's clear that his game is still a work in progress as far as route running and understanding the playbook before he can earn the trust of Rodgers.

To my eye, route running remains an issue...I can't recall a Packer QB in this preseason throwing to him before he made his break, which suggests lack of trust in how he reads the defense or in his chosen angles.

Further, whether you want to use the term "body catcher", "poor catch radius", "not a natural catcher of the football" or just plain questionable hands, that issue remains.

Still and all, he's one injury away from getting more than decoy, short fixed pattern or stretch-the-field snaps.

 

[TJV]

To my eye, route running remains an issue...I can't recall a Packer QB in this preseason throwing to him before he made his break, which suggests lack of trust in how he reads the defense or in his chosen angles.

Further, whether you want to use the term "body catcher", "poor catch radius", "not a natural catcher of the football" or just plain questionable hands, that issue remains.

Still and all, he's one injury away from getting more than decoy, short fixed pattern or stretch-the-field snaps.

I agree. He also has really small hands. My hands are bigger than his and I am not six feet tall. He's 6'3" with 9" hands (measured from thumb to little finger outstretched).

 

[HardRightEdge]

I agree. He also has really small hands. My hands are bigger than his and I am not six feet tall. He's 6'3" with 9" hands (measured from thumb to little finger outstretched).

Hand size in certainly a consideration in evaluating draft talent, and goes some ways toward accounting for a player's ability to catch well or not, as the case may be. But I think that consideration fades into the background once a guy has a couple of years in the league.

For example, Golden Tate's Combine measurement was 9 1/4" albeit in a much smaller frame, and he arguably has the best hands in the NFL. Antonio Brown, another 5'10" guy, has 9" hands. There are plenty of other smaller frame receivers with small hands. And I don't think a 1" difference between Janis and Nelson's 10" hands, to compare two big body guys, comes near accounting for the notable difference.

Demonstration of soft hands takes precedence over any size limitation.

There's a secret sauce that goes into it...a holistic combination of eye/hand coordination, body control in the sense of the arms and hands being in sync with the other body movements at the point of the catch, acute depth perception, fearlessness, competitiveness in the moment...and any number of other factors one wants to throw into the basket.

I firmly believe McCarthy is correct in not trying to break it down into components when his eye test evaluates a guy as "a natural catcher of the football", or not as the case may be, a phrase he's used positively with Abbrederis or with Hyde fielding punts, or negatively in the case of Janis as recently as this week according to Gannon.

You can emphasize focus; you can put him in front of a jugs machine and have him hand catch a 100 balls per day. That can help, but ultimately it comes down to the secret sauce.

One question I have with Janis is whether his body catching was a bad habit acquired early on with undemanding coaching or whether it was an adaptation to having innately hard hands. I'm willing to wait a little longer, but evidence is mounting that hard hands are a deficiency that will have to be taken into account.

 

[ShockwaveRider]

Cutting his route short to cause an interception stuck out more for me.

THIS.

Haven't lost one microsecond of sleep over cutting Myles White. Quite frankly, I think we've already seen all we're ever going to see out of him. Does anybody really see him going somewhere else and becoming a stud receiver. Pffft.

Delighted to see James Jones back in the fold. Wish he had never left. Immediate positive influence and mentor for the younger guys. I think he'll serve as a security blanket for Mr. No. 12.

Bummer about Jon-Luc Pinkard. He's on injured reserve?

We're only days away from kick-off 2015 boys.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Does anybody really see him going somewhere else and becoming a stud receiver. Pffft.

That was never the question.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Bummer about Jon-Luc Pinkard. He's on injured reserve?

Pinkard was waived injured, because no other team claimed him he reverted to the Packers' IR list. I expect the team to reach an injury settlement with him and maybe sign him to the practice squad later in the season.

 

[TJV]

Hand size in certainly a consideration in evaluating draft talent, and goes some ways toward accounting for a player's ability to catch well or not, as the case may be. But I think that consideration fades into the background once a guy has a couple of years in the league.

And I caught the ball pretty well way back when but the quality of the QBs throwing me the ball was … somewhat diminished in comparison.

Haven't lost one microsecond of sleep over cutting Myles White. Quite frankly, I think we've already seen all we're ever going to see out of him.

I posted this before. Michael Rodney who does the Packers Notes site wrote this after the first couple of practices about White:

After two practices, the third-year wide receiver has been the most impressive pass catcher not named Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb or Davante Adams. Unfortunately, the third-year pro from Louisiana Tech still reminds me of a baseball player who excels in Triple A, but struggles in the majors. There’s just something missing. He’s pretty good at everything, but not really good at anything. That’s why I can see White outplaying many of his fellow young receivers this summer, and still getting demoted in September.

http://packersnotes.com/2015/07/backup-qbs-are-struggling/

 

[easyk83]

It's apparent that the Packers value the skills and upside of Janis, but I don't expect him to have a big impact this year as long as the other 4 stay healthy. It's clear that his game is still a work in progress as far as route running and understanding the playbook before he can earn the trust of Rodgers.

They might roll the dice on him a couple times this year, the kid does show up under the lights.

 

[ShockwaveRider]

Michael Rodney who does the Packers Notes site wrote this after the first couple of practices about White: http://packersnotes.com/2015/07/backup-qbs-are-struggling/

Look, I’m not going to sit here and endlessly hate on the guy (Myles White). I just never thought he was any good. I personally thought Jared Abbrederis was “too fragile” and Myles White was “unreliable”. My opinion.

I’m GLAD to see the Packers able to trot out Cobb, Adams, Jones, Montgomery and Janis. I would have loved to see Pinkard make the cut too. I’d love to see SOMEBODY come “out of the woodwork” and make a real impact for the Packers. Do I think that’s going to be James Jones? Not really. But I sure don’t think it’s going to be Myles White either.

We are blessed to have arguably the best QB in the NFL. Maybe a future Hall of Famer.

For god’s sake give him somebody reliable to throw the ball to.

 

[Vrill]

Look, I’m not going to sit here and endlessly hate on the guy (Myles White). I just never thought he was any good. I personally thought Jared Abbrederis was “too fragile” and Myles White was “unreliable”. My opinion.

I’m GLAD to see the Packers able to trot out Cobb, Adams, Jones, Montgomery and Janis. I would have loved to see Pinkard make the cut too. I’d love to see SOMEBODY come “out of the woodwork” and make a real impact for the Packers. Do I think that’s going to be James Jones? Not really. But I sure don’t think it’s going to be Myles White either.

We are blessed to have arguably the best QB in the NFL. Maybe a future Hall of Famer.

For god’s sake give him somebody reliable to throw the ball to.

James Jones not an impact WR? He made an impact while he was here with us during his first stint. Rodgers likes Jones and trusts Jones. He had 14 TD catches for us one year recently. He also made an impact with the Raiders last season. He also put up nice consistent #s for the Giants this preseason before they released him. Randall Cobb is one of the top WR's in the game and yet here you are saying that Rodgers has nobody reliable to throw to? Davante Adams looks extremely promising too.

I'd say our WR core even without Jordy is a top 10 WR core in the NFL easily.

....then you have Richard Rodgers. I think hes an above average pass catching TE and in the NFL, that is more than enough.

Rodgers has plenty of weapons. More than enough to win a Super Bowl. And I'll tell you, if we don't win the Super Bowl this year, it wont be due to our pass catching options. It'll be because of our defense. Our defense will make or break us this season.

 

[TJV]

I'm certainly not "hating" on White. From what I can tell, he was good guy in the locker room who gave good effort. I can hardly damn him for not being more talented. And if I were him, I'd seek out another team to try and catch on with.

I’d love to see SOMEBODY come “out of the woodwork” and make a real impact for the Packers. Do I think that’s going to be James Jones? Not really. But I sure don’t think it’s going to be Myles White either.

Not sure what you mean by “real impact” but Cobb and Adams are firmly entrenched as #1 and #2. “Real impact” for a #3? IMO Jones is capable of that. Montgomery may be too with some experience. And if he can get and stay healthy I think Abbrederis could “come out of the woodwork” but obviously that’s a huge “if”.

We are blessed to have arguably the best QB in the NFL. Maybe a future Hall of Famer. For god’s sake give him somebody reliable to throw the ball to.

I fixed your second sentence. Thompson’s done a great job of giving Rodgers reliable receivers to throw the ball to. As a first time starter in 2008 he had Jennings, Driver, Jones and rookies Nelson and Finley were added to the group. Cobb was added four seasons ago and Adams and R. Rodgers were added last season. IMO Aaron Rodgers shouldn’t have any complaints about the targets he’s been provided.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For god’s sake give him somebody reliable to throw the ball to.

Cobb is the best slot receiver in the league and the team should be fine with Adams and Jones on the outside. There aren't a lot of teams capable of overcoming losing their #1 receiver but the Packers are one of them.

....then you have Richard Rodgers. I think hes an above average pass catching TE and in the NFL, that is more than enough.

I agree with most of your post but Rodgers still has a long way to go to become an above average pass catching tight end. While he has great hands he has to get open more often, 20 catches isn't good enough to be considered one of the better receiving threats at the position.

 

[HardRightEdge]

And I caught the ball pretty well way back when but the quality of the QBs throwing me the ball was … somewhat diminished in comparison. I posted this before. Michael Rodney who does the Packers Notes site wrote this after the first couple of practices about White: http://packersnotes.com/2015/07/backup-qbs-are-struggling/

I've got 9 1/4" hands. Back in the day, after a couple of weeks of conditioning the hands, I could stand and catch a spiral at 20 yards one handed, with either hand, without a bobble. Just pluck it. Maybe not a Rodgers dart, but a pretty good ball. I don't see how an additional 1" makes too much of a difference if all of the other factors work in a guy's favor.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I agree with most of your post but Rodgers still has a long way to go to become an above average pass catching tight end. While he has great hands he has to get open more often, 20 catches isn't good enough to be considered one of the better receiving threats at the position.

I believe Rodgers can be a reliable TE. Your phrase highlighed above says it all...he has the hands, and looks natural catching the ball to repeat that theme, but so far has not shown the quickness or speed to get the kind of separation that would yield a high target count. A long way to go to above average is the right way to look at it. Then there's the blocking....

 

[Vrill]

I just wish we'd draft a pure in-line blocking TE to pair with a pass receiving threat TE. Or one that can do both.

 

[TJV]

I don't see how an additional 1" makes too much of a difference if all of the other factors work in a guy's favor.

On second thought you're right, I was just surprised at how small his hands are. (BTW, my hands are also 9 1/4").

 

[easyk83]

...I don't see how an additional 1" makes too much of a difference if all of the other factors work in a guy's favor.

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[Deleted member 6794]

I just wish we'd draft a pure in-line blocking TE to pair with a pass receiving threat TE. Or one that can do both.

Every team in the NFL wants a TE capable of doing both. Unfortunately there aren't a ton of players like that around.

 

[ShockwaveRider]

James Jones not an impact WR? He made an impact while he was here with us during his first stint. Rodgers likes Jones and trusts Jones. He had 14 TD catches for us one year recently. He also made an impact with the Raiders last season. He also put up nice consistent #s for the Giants this preseason before they released him. Randall Cobb is one of the top WR's in the game and yet here you are saying that Rodgers has nobody reliable to throw to? Davante Adams looks extremely promising too.

No, no, no.

I didn't say (or, at least, I didn't mean to imply) that Randall Cobb and Davante Adams are "unreliable".

I said that MYLES WHITE is "unreliable", at least how he looked in the preseason.

No, no, no. Randall Cobb is GREAT. Davante Adams has the potential to be great.

James Jones an impact player? Now, at his age? No, I don't see that. I see a good, solid, RELIABLE receiver.

You guys remember Superbowl XXXI, when Favre threw the 54 yard TD pass to Andre Rison? Remember the interaction between Favre and Rison on the sidelines after the play?

Rison: Favre! HEY FAVRE!!! (gets Favre's attention) Where ever you want me to be that's where I'm gonna be!

Favre: Ah know, that's why I went to ya.

That's the kind of trust and chemistry I want Rogers to have with his receivers.

 

[TJV]

One of the primary reasons Jones is such a good fit is his knowledge of the offense. He's very likely to be where Rodgers expects him to be, he and Rodgers had/probably have much better chemistry than Favre and Rison. So I'm not sure what point you are attempting to make.

BTW, do you think Adams had a "real impact" as the #3 WR last season?