Slot Options- Who will take over?

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HardRightEdge

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Like many OT coming declaring for the draft, they get projected at OG for a host of reasons at the next level. Spriggs was projected to be successful at OG and he added to that by being one of the top all around OL at the combine in speed and power.
I don't think anybody projected Spriggs at OG with his 301 lb. weigh-in at the Combine, while his draft position and athletic measurables said he was pegged to be an OT. Even then, he needed physical development to play OT. In his first two seasons there were rumblings that his work ethic was not quite up to snuff.

Last offseason he stayed in Green Bay to rehab his knee and get on a nutrition program (or "eating program" if one prefers), with Spriggs estimating his weight was up to 320 lbs:

https://www.packers.com/news/jason-spriggs-settling-in-with-increased-size-strength

Campen offered this backhanded compliment:

“Ultimately, it’s going to come down to his performance and how he handles things. I know this, that he’s in a lot better physical shape and mindset than he’s been the previous two years, in my opinion.”

He looked to be around that 320 lbs. through the season, having aquired the typical OL gut.

Filling in for Bulaga, to my eye his run blocking was considerably improved. However, his pass blocking did not look ready for prime time. We're heading into year 4 and a key issue identified in the following scouting report remains:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/jason-spriggs?id=2555197

"Has crippling issue with over-setting in pass protection. Doesn't maintain much weight on inner half of his frame and has consistent issues redirecting his weight back inside with suddenness against inside moves."

Frankly, he gets beat up by good edge rushers who have outside-inside moves. You can call it balance, slow feet, range. Since the physical measurables don't suggest that's the problem, it could be slow mental response to cues. Whatever it is, after 3 years the issue remains.

The Packers should be looking to move Spriggs to OG now that he's added weight. Not having to defend in space would offset his limitations, the very limitations that have often led to unsuccessful OTs getting moved to OG with success. His athleticism would play into the purported plan to use outside zone in the run game.

I've heard it commented that 6'6" is too tall for an OG, making it difficult to get under DTs pads. Looking at the Pro Bowl OGs, though, you'll see several at 6'5" and Andrus Peat goes 6'7", so that's no hard and fast rule.

In fact, here's tape of Spriggs playing RG in place of Barclay in 2016 as a rookie before he put on weight:

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There's a lot of good stuff in this tape, but note the play at 1:20 where he gets off-balance and beat on a spin move. Getting beat in this way on the edge, which he has all too often, is going to cost a hurry, hit or sack, which has been the case. Inside in tight spaces he gets chip help and can make a recovery.

However, the real question is how we got on the topic of Spriggs in a slot receiver thread. ;)
 
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InGuteWeTrust

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Marquise brown with our 30th overall selection
If he slides that far I would not be against the pick. I think Hollywood Brown could do damage in the slot or at times play outside. My only concern on him is he is a bit frail. I worry about injuries with him. He is injured right now. I don't see him ever being a lot bigger and if he does try to add bulk it could take away from his best traits.

My dream first 3 picks for the Pack:

#12 Josh Allen

#30 T.J. Hockenson

#44 Ed Oliver

Not happening, so moving on...


My more realistic(Actually may happen) Top 3 picks for the Pack. I would be nearly as happy with these 3 as my dream 3:

#12 T.J. Hockenson

#30 Brian Burns

#44 Juan Thornhill

I am quite concerned about Jax at #7, Detroit at #8 or Denver at #10 taking Hock. I would do cartwheels if he falls to us at 12. Brian Burns, it is also going to take some luck to get him at #30, but it's possible. Juan Thornhill can be a elite FS in the NFL. Elite cover skills. He is the guy we have been dreaming about to play center-field. Pairing him with Amos would give us one of the best safety combos in the league.
 
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My dream first 3 picks for the Pack:

#12 Josh Allen

#30 T.J. Hockenson

#44 Ed Oliver

I doubt any of those 3 are available at those pick #'s. As a matter of fact, we may not even have a shot at any of them with the #12 pick. Possibly Hockenson and maybe Oliver.

But yeah, that would be a dream if it happened.
 

InGuteWeTrust

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I doubt any of those 3 are available at those pick #'s. As a matter of fact, we may not even have a shot at any of them with the #12 pick. Possibly Hockenson and maybe Oliver.

But yeah, that would be a dream if it happened.

Yes, *DREAM* first 3. Of course Allen and Oliver won't be there. Nor will Hock at #30. I also stated clearly in my post that it's NOT HAPPENING, hence my more realistic (Actually may happen) first 3 picks.

#12 T.J. Hockenson

#30 Brian Burns

#44 Juan Thornhill
 

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Yes, *DREAM* first 3. Of course Allen and Oliver won't be there. Nor will Hock at #30. I also stated clearly in my post that it's NOT HAPPENING, hence my more realistic (Actually may happen) first 3 picks.

#12 T.J. Hockenson

#30 Brian Burns

#44 Juan Thornhill

I would bet a month's salary Burns ain't making it to the 30th pick
 
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GleefulGary

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Hollywood Brown would be ideal if he falls to us at 30. He is a tireless worker and would be able to help this season. As a Sooner fan, I am being a bit of a homer but the fact is the kid can flat out play. He is the definition of

Of the existing guys, I like Kumerow. He doesn't exactly look like the prototypical slot guy but he is crafty and would prove a tough cover on the inside. I know he doesn't have a long track record of success but he just seems to have a little something something. He has a knack for getting open and clearly has the trust of 12 which goes a long way. I am really looking forward to what Jake can do with a full OS under his belt and a head full of confidence.

Regarding Brown, a first round pick on a 166 lb WR with a Lisfranc (hard to come back from) seems like a gross misuse of assets.
 

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Cool. That all you got?

Who do you think Gute will take, or want Gute to take with the Pack's Top 3 picks?


Honestly, if we get Burns it will have to be at that 12 spot IMO...all depends what Gute and company thinks of him.

Not a fan of overall cost of the Smiths BUT their acquisitions in addition to Amos and Turner truly make our draft board open up to follow who we truly feel is the best of what is left and roll with it. IF at 12 that happens to be an edge guy we truly see being possible Pro Bowl level do it...if that is an OL or defensive tackle go for it.

IF by some grace of football gods let Devin White fall to us at 12 WE BETTER DRAFT HIM. I truly believe he is gonna be a stud in the league.

Realistically though I do think Sweat or Burns or some edge guy might just be what ticket we punch.

For whatever reason I sense we will draft a biggun at 30, lineman on either side of the ball (Daniels in last year and Bulaga not getting younger)...leaving our TE "need" to be addressed in the 2nd or 3rd.
 
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Cool. That all you got?

Who do you think Gute will take, or want Gute to take with the Pack's Top 3 picks?

OT, S, TE, WR, ILB

Of those 5 positions, I can see the Packers hitting 3 of them with their first 3 picks. The signing of the Smith Brothers, both on long term deals, removes the need to go EDGE in the first two rounds. Only way I see the Packers deviating from that is if a guy falls to them that is head and shoulders BPA at the time.
 

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I think you would be missing out on greatness if Hock slides to the Pack at #12 and you don't take him. It is not even all about "need." I honestly feel Hock will be our elite TE for 10+ years if we get him. I'd really hate to watch him become a star in the league for someone else. He is that well rounded and talented.

There are already reports that Belichick may use some of his draft capital of 12 picks to move up in the first round and grab Hockenson now that Gronk is retired. Jax likes him at #7. Detroit likes him at #8. Denver at #10. And again, The Pats love him.

I believe we would be very lucky if he slides to 12. It would be a huge mistake to pass on him. I don't think Gute would pass. Especially with how much LaFleur uses and values TE's in his offense.

Hock would be gold!
 
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InGuteWeTrust

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OT, S, TE, WR, ILB

Of those 5 positions, I can see the Packers hitting 3 of them with their first 3 picks. The signing of the Smith Brothers, both on long term deals, removes the need to go EDGE in the first two rounds. Only way I see the Packers deviating from that is if a guy falls to them that is head and shoulders BPA at the time.
I wouldn't say EDGE is no longer a need. Gute has said as much as well. You don't just use 2 edges in this defense. Pettine and Mike Smith rotate edge rushers. Adding a talent like Brian Burns to the rotation would be nothing but a positive. I like a top 4 OLB's consisting of Za'Darius, Preston, Fackrell, and Burns a lot better than not adding a talent like Burns to the group.
 

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I think our FA moves took some pressure off the draft and the roster as a whole, but I don't think it removed any position from being draftable early that wasn't considered likely of a 1st or 2nd round pick before FA started either.
 

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I think you would be missing out on greatness if Hock slides to the Pack at #12 and you don't take him. It is not even all about "need." I honestly feel Hock will be our elite TE for 10+ years if we get him. I'd really hate to watch him become a star in the league for someone else. He is that well rounded and talented.

There are already reports that Belichick may use some of his draft capital of 12 picks to move up in the first round and grab Hockenson now that Gronk is retired. Jax likes him at #7. Detroit likes him at #8. Denver at #10. And again, The Pats love him.

I believe we would be very lucky if he slides to 12. It would be a huge mistake to pass on him. I don't think Gute would pass. Especially with how much LaFleur uses and values TE's in his offense.

Hock would be gold!

I get the Hock love, I do. I also understand that in the vast majority of cases a TE will take a few seasons to develop into a consistent threat. That said, Graham is our primary receiving TE next year - so developing a project is ok with me if we're not sold on Tonyan.

Fant or Irv may be better value - I'm doubtful either will be available to us in the 2nd considering who needs TE's this year and where they pick. So we'd be needing to use a first rounder (to me preferably the 30th pick) on one of these guys. Let them develop and make use of their athleticism, which is a bit better than Hocks.
 

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This is a very simplistic look at positional needs but for my 1,000 post I'm going for it!

2019
- GB needs: starting FS to pair with Amos; starting OG capable of moving to either OT if/when injury; shifty/fast slot WR/PR/KR; ILB opposite Martinez.
2020 - GB needs: starting TE to replace Graham/Lewis/Tonyan; ILB to replace FA Martinez?; OT to replace Bulaga; DE/DT to replace Daniels, Clark AND/OR Lowry; OLB to replace Fackrell and/or Gilbert, K to replace Crosby.

To me that means Gute should be drafting the following positions: FS, OT/OG, ILB, WR/PR/KR, DL, TE, OLB, DL, CB, FS, Kicker (camp competition and just maybe he beats-out Crosby in '19).
 

GleefulGary

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OT, S, TE, WR, ILB

Of those 5 positions, I can see the Packers hitting 3 of them with their first 3 picks. The signing of the Smith Brothers, both on long term deals, removes the need to go EDGE in the first two rounds. Only way I see the Packers deviating from that is if a guy falls to them that is head and shoulders BPA at the time.

I think you can safely add iDL to that. Mike Daniels is up in a year.
 
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Bob Daisley actually played bass on 'Crazy Train' on the 'Blizzard of Ozz' album, not Rudy Sarzo.
Very good. I’m impressed! But I never said on the album did I? Although, Most people wouldn’t know that so I’m impressed.
If you dig a little deeper.. you will learn that Bob Daisley was gone shortly after due to a contract dispute just weeks into the European tour. A short while later when they reconvened early 1981, he was fired from the band altogether.
Many people don’t know that Rudy Sarzo was in Randy’s band (Quiet Riot) long before Blizzard of Oz or Ozzy hired either. Rudy played on tour for the North American leg of Blizzard of Ozz. Rudy was best friends with Randy and was asked by Rhoads to go on that fateful plane ride but declined because he was tired. A short while later he was awakened when the planes wing clipped their tour bus and lost control and crashed into the nearby garage. That was actually during the U.S. leg of the Blizzard of Ozz tour. But you are entirely correct, the Album featured Daisley.
I’ve been a Randy fan since before the time of his death. I have an original picture of him, taken by my friend Rusty who was a mop hand, out back of the then newly built Lacrosse Center. He’s in a Leather jacket with fur lapelles lighting a cigarette with the buildings new stucco behind him. It’s now framed in my bedroom. I was also a Black Sabbath fan before that. :tup:
 
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I think you can safely add iDL to that. Mike Daniels is up in a year.

My bad.....you are correct. As a matter of fact, if Ed Oliver somehow drops to #12, I would be disappointed if the Packers didn't grab him.

I would also say the same thing about Devin White. While some don't think ILB is worth using that high of a pick on, I think he could be a special player and fill a big need for Pettine and the Packers defense.
 

InGuteWeTrust

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Very good. I’m impressed! But I never said on the album did I? Although, Most people wouldn’t know that so I’m impressed.
If you dig a little deeper.. you will learn that Bob Daisley was gone shortly after the beginning of the albums European tour due to a contract dispute just weeks into the European tour. A short while later when they reconvened early 1981, he was fired from the band altogether.
Many people don’t know that Rudy Sarzo was in Randy’s band (Quiet Riot) long before Blizzard of Oz or Ozzy hired either. Rudy played on tour for the North American leg of Blizzard of Ozz. Rudy was best friends with Randy and was asked by Rhoads to go on that fateful plane ride but declined because he was tired. A short while later he was awakened when the planes wing clipped their tour bus and lost control and crashed into the nearby garage. That was actually during the U.S. leg of the Blizzard of Ozz tour.
We are quite off topic here which probably annoys some, but oh well it's about Ozzy and Randy so it matters...

Actually, Bob Daisley also played bass on the 'Diary of a Madman' album. Sarzo is credited on the original release of Madman, but indeed it is actually Daisley who played bass on both Blizzard and Madman.

Randy Rhoads is one of my favorite musicians of all time so I do know a little about him. Please don't think I'm correcting you just to be a jerk. Randy died March 19th, 1982 and it was during the 'Diary of A Madman' tour when the tragic plane crash occured in Florida. I had the great fortune of seeing a show on that tour in Madison on Jan. 23rd, 1982. I was 11 and it was my only time seeing Randy perform live.

I miss Randy every day still.
 

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Montgomery hasn't lined up in the slot a lot either. The Packers should definitely pass on him after he wasn't able to follow instructions which led to his release.

That increases the "Bring former Packers back" counter to five :rolleyes:


Jake said it best

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InGuteWeTrust

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My bad.....you are correct. As a matter of fact, if Ed Oliver somehow drops to #12, I would be disappointed if the Packers didn't grab him.

I would also say the same thing about Devin White. While some don't think ILB is worth using that high of a pick on, I think he could be a special player and fill a big need for Pettine and the Packers defense.
I'm with you on Ed Oliver. I think he is the closest thing to Aaron Donald in this draft. Devin White, I have only seen play like 3 games, so I can't give a educated opinion on him. Pettine uses a DB a lot in place of one of the ILB's so many times Martinez is the lone ILB on the field. I am hoping that Oren Burks takes a jump up in his 2nd season and makes a great impact at ILB next to Blake. I think the 2nd season in Pettine's D will be a positive for a lot of these guys.
 

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I like what I have been reading about AJ Brown. A little big for the slot (but not much) and quick. Assuming we draft an OT first; then taking him with the 2nd pick would not be bad. Otherwise we need to go OT with the 2nd pick. Don't know if he will last to the 2nd round pick. jmo I would like to see Kumrow keep catching the ball and getting open. If he can unnerve the defenders from the slot position; ?? Am a bit afraid of the Oklahoma kid's size.
I pray his size allows him to fall to us. The kid is absolutely electric with the ball in his hands and as tough as they come. He played through an injury last season that would've caused many-a-guy to sit. He could certainly stand to add a few more LB's but that wouldn't influence my taking him one bit. The kid isn't much smaller than his cousin, Antonio, and is a straight up playmaker deluxe. The kid produced like AB while at OU without all the crap 84 brings with him...
 

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My bad.....you are correct. As a matter of fact, if Ed Oliver somehow drops to #12, I would be disappointed if the Packers didn't grab him.

I would also say the same thing about Devin White. While some don't think ILB is worth using that high of a pick on, I think he could be a special player and fill a big need for Pettine and the Packers defense.

Love Ed Oliver.

Devin Bush > Devin White
 
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Randy died March 19th, 1982 and it was during the 'Diary of A Madman' tour when the tragic plane crash occured in Florida
You’re right I said “leg” on Blizzard. The leg of a tour doesn’t last 1.5 years! Lol.
That’s cool I’m glad you saw him live I never got that chance. I nearly mastered both songbooks by 1991 though. Then you obviously know by now Rudy performed Crazy Train live on many occasions, starting almost a year earlier. So once again .. let’s quit splittin’ 1980s rock n roll hairs! Lol.
Let Bass players be Bass players. Let OT play OT! Let Slot players be Slot players. Lets limit the experiments and sign a player for OT not try to mold one. Let’s get a Slot receiver vs trying to manufacturer one. Let’s not start another project at RT please dear Lord. If one happens to fill in and excel? great! But let’s limit this experimenting to positions that don’t get our QB killed again.
Now let’s draft a specialty OT and a specialty formidable Slot and stop the wishful thinking. It’s time to bring back that Trophy not play “Chemistry Lab for 1 credit Alex”
 
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HardRightEdge

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This is a very simplistic look at positional needs but for my 1,000 post I'm going for it!

2019
- GB needs: starting FS to pair with Amos; starting OG capable of moving to either OT if/when injury; shifty/fast slot WR/PR/KR; ILB opposite Martinez.
2020 - GB needs: starting TE to replace Graham/Lewis/Tonyan; ILB to replace FA Martinez?; OT to replace Bulaga; DE/DT to replace Daniels, Clark AND/OR Lowry; OLB to replace Fackrell and/or Gilbert, K to replace Crosby.

To me that means Gute should be drafting the following positions: FS, OT/OG, ILB, WR/PR/KR, DL, TE, OLB, DL, CB, FS, Kicker (camp competition and just maybe he beats-out Crosby in '19).
Amos is a FS but can play SS. Paying him that kind of money indicates they expect him to play free. Clark will be 5th. year optioned or signed. As for the rest, two drafts and a year of player development lie ahead before 2020.

Filling those positions with average players is not going to get it done. Gutekunst needs to get some impact players out of this draft and the next.
 

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