Packers vs Giants Game Thread: It's too early for this shift edition

[Pkrjones]

Other teams use 6 olinemen to run the ball. Why wouldn't they even try that..make Caleb Jones active..use him as short yardage fb!!

Or Hanson who's already active...would be a great role to get some snaps from him?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Agreed. Here it is and the Giants we’re trying to stop the clock and this had called their 1st Timeout here. They obviously thought if we scored they’d want like 1:00 or :30 sec or whatever to FG for the win.

I want you to be AJ Dillon here. What OL would you run at in this scenario?
LT? LG? C? RG? RT?
Don’t pick the one that doesn’t fit ok?!!

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Other teams use 6 olinemen to run the ball. Why wouldn't they even try that..make Caleb Jones active..use him as short yardage fb!!

That's a good idea. Or bring in Lewis and DeGuarra. It sounds like MLF was afraid to run. He's gotta get over that. Giants had the 26th ranked run defense after 4 games. They aren't the Bills......

 

[Heyjoe4]

Agreed. Here it is and the Giants just stopped the clock and this had called their 1st Timeout here. I wonder why??
Keep in mind, We have 2 Timeouts here and at best can get off 6 chances if the first 2 pick up that 2 yards.
Stopping the clock here is the worst thing you can do because it saves them Timeouts for a 1 minute offense. They need 1 for the kicking team ~16 sec saved) If we score an immediate TD here you leave 1:05 on the clock and them with 2 Timeouts!!! It’s almost like they sent Jon Runyon and early Christmas present. If that hole was any bigger you’d fall in it!

I want you to be AJ Dillon here. Can you pick up at least 1-2 yards here or not??
Also look closer… What OL would you run towards in this scenario?????
LT? LG? C? RG? RT?

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Pass. Twice. LOL, not!

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Bill how the heck are you? Long time mate hope all is good

I`m good thank you mate, just recovering from yesterdays fiasco. Hope you`re well ?

 

[milani]

Agreed. Here it is and the Giants just stopped the clock and this had called their 1st Timeout here. I wonder why??
Keep in mind, We have 2 Timeouts here and at best can get off 6 chances if the first 2 pick up that 2 yards.
Stopping the clock here is the worst thing you can do because it saves them Timeouts for a 1 minute offense. They need 1 for the kicking team ~16 sec saved) If we score an immediate TD here you leave 1:05 on the clock and them with 2 Timeouts!!! It’s almost like they sent Jon Runyon and early Christmas present. If that hole was any bigger you’d fall in it!

I want you to be AJ Dillon here. Can you pick up at least 1-2 yards here or not??
Also look closer… What OL would you run towards in this scenario?????
LT? LG? C? RG? RT?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

LG. And I would not have 3 wide outs on the left side. Put another lineman on the line. Maybe a TE.

 

[milani]

That's a good idea. Or bring in Lewis and DeGuarra. It sounds like MLF was afraid to run. He's gotta get over that. Giants had the 26th ranked run defense after 4 games. They aren't the Bills......

You are right. And he does not have to be so conventional or use misdirection all the time. Copy some of what BB did against us. The Pats had a 3rd string QB and we knew they had to run. And they did. Very well indeed.

 

[Heyjoe4]

You are right. And he does not have to be so conventional or use misdirection all the time. Copy some of what BB did against us. The Pats had a 3rd string QB and we knew they had to run. And they did. Very well indeed.

Exactly. That "they loaded the box" is just a way of telling your OL you don't have faith in them. Starting to question MLF's toughness. It's still a physical/strength contest (well, unless you're a QB, a protected species) and stronger beats strong. I believe Jones and especially Dillon could have picked up 2 yards with two downs.

(Kidding about QBs, they still face plenty of risk. The league is overreacting to the Tua concussions. Maybe it's a good thing for now, but they gotta get real or all sacks will get a flag. Happened in the TB/Atlanta game and again last night in Chielfs/Raiders.)

 

[Team Ronny]

Starting to question Lafleur in general. There are games when the team "lacks energy!" If I made millions to play football 6 months out of the year I wouldn't "lack energy!" Then he gets out coached by his buddies..mostly Shanahan. He gets out coached by 2 rookie coaches. The team is never prepared in the playoffs.

 

[melvin dangerr]

I`m good thank you mate, just recovering from yesterdays fiasco. Hope you`re well ?

You bet shout at you soon take care B

 

[Heyjoe4]

Starting to question Lafleur in general. There are games when the team "lacks energy!" If I made millions to play football 6 months out of the year I wouldn't "lack energy!" Then he gets out coached by his buddies..mostly Shanahan. He gets out coached by 2 rookie coaches. The team is never prepared in the playoffs.

So much, maybe all, of what you write is true. How can a team not be "ready" for a game, any game? And how can MLF complain on several occasions about needing to run the ball more when he calls the plays?

I get that Rodgers will audible out of a run call to a pass now and then, but not to the tune of 39 pass attempts versus 19 runs in the Giants game. And for most of the game they had the lead, so why pass?

MLF and some others referred to the Giants "loading the box" as a reason to pass rather than run. That's like surrendering before the war starts.

And on another subject, why does a D play zone when the 3 corners are very athletic? Why not play man? The Vikings tore GB up because of this.

The most frustrating part? This is a talented team. The coaches, even the HC, are questionable. And that's something Murphy has to figure out. It should be Gluten's job, but not in the Packers' dysfunctional organization.

 

[Mondio]

Nobody in that first half was saying the packers weren't ready to play. So we can end that line of discussion last Sunday by 8:45 CST or 1:45GMT or Zulu time if you prefer.

 

[gopkrs]

Starting to question Lafleur in general. There are games when the team "lacks energy!" If I made millions to play football 6 months out of the year I wouldn't "lack energy!" Then he gets out coached by his buddies..mostly Shanahan. He gets out coached by 2 rookie coaches. The team is never prepared in the playoffs.

Getting beat up in the 2nd half is the worst thing. I doubt it is conditioning like it was in the old days. Probably bend but don't break defense is most to blame. Our offense does not get on the field enough. And the offensive (pun) play calling. Maybe LaFleur should be looking more at the team as a whole and give the play calling to the OC. I mean, he can always step in and call a play when he wants to. That is, if ARod gives his permission and listens to it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Nobody in that first half was saying the packers weren't ready to play. So we can end that line of discussion last Sunday by 8:45 CST or 1:45GMT or Zulu time if you prefer.

I think the Packers are always ready when the game starts. It's during the game that 1) a lack of preparation, or 2) an inability to adjust the game plan, or 3) both accounted for the loss.

Slaton was quoted saying the Giants O was showing them plays the Packers weren't prepared for. That sounds to me like they weren't ready for any deviations to the defensive game plan. It makes sense. The QB had a gimpy ankle but ran around 10 times always picking up a lot of yards. The Giants' HC kept doing it because the Packers weren't ready with adjustments.

Talented team, questionable coaches.

 

[milani]

Exactly. That "they loaded the box" is just a way of telling your OL you don't have faith in them. Starting to question MLF's toughness. It's still a physical/strength contest (well, unless you're a QB, a protected species) and stronger beats strong. I believe Jones and especially Dillon could have picked up 2 yards with two downs.

(Kidding about QBs, they still face plenty of risk. The league is overreacting to the Tua concussions. Maybe it's a good thing for now, but they gotta get real or all sacks will get a flag. Happened in the TB/Atlanta game and again last night in Chielfs/Raiders.)

It is a violent, physical game involving big, fast, strong athletes. But it is also football. I wonder if Brady was the 3rd string QB would he have gotten that call. Not likely.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It is a violent, physical game involving big, fast, strong athletes. But it is also football. I wonder if Brady was the 3rd string QB would he have gotten that call. Not likely.

I agree with that. I think it's implicit, but the refs in almost all sports pay some deference to the superstars. Maybe it's human nature. I don't think it's intentional. That doesn't make it right either.

 

[Mondio]

I think the Packers are always ready when the game starts. It's during the game that 1) a lack of preparation, or 2) an inability to adjust the game plan, or 3) both accounted for the loss.

Slaton was quoted saying the Giants O was showing them plays the Packers weren't prepared for. That sounds to me like they weren't ready for any deviations to the defensive game plan. It makes sense. The QB had a gimpy ankle but ran around 10 times always picking up a lot of yards. The Giants' HC kept doing it because the Packers weren't ready with adjustments.

Talented team, questionable coaches.

or guys like Savage don't fill their run lane and Saquon goes off for 40 yards. He knew he was supposed to, he just didn't. We stopped the Giants plenty, and then would let them off the hook by self infliction many times. The other guys are going to win some too all on their own. We've been giving them too much help is the bigger problem.


Jerry Gray all of a sudden forgot how to coach secondaries? interesting concept.

 

[Heyjoe4]

or guys like Savage don't fill their run lane and Saquon goes off for 40 yards. He knew he was supposed to, he just didn't. We stopped the Giants plenty, and then would let them off the hook by self infliction many times. The other guys are going to win some too all on their own. We've been giving them too much help is the bigger problem.


Jerry Gray all of a sudden forgot how to coach secondaries? interesting concept.

The fact that, for the most part, the Packers were stopping Barkley just makes the loss even harder to handle.

And as far as the secondary, why use zone with three talented, athletic corners? Wouldn't that suggest playing man coverage? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[OldSchool101]

Pass. Twice. LOL, not!

I bet #12 could’ve gotten 2 yards here. Now what Hospital he would stay at would be the next debate

The fact that, for the most part, the Packers were stopping Barkley just makes the loss even harder to handle.

And as far as the secondary, why use zone with three talented, athletic corners? Wouldn't that suggest playing man coverage? Maybe I'm missing something.

No you are correct imo. I’m convinced that on occasion a DC can’t see the forest through the trees. i don’t want to come across as a know it all because I know very little. However I’ve watched enough football to know if I’m a coach and I have above League average pass rush I play more man and full court press.
The worse I am on pass rush efficiency? the less full court press I use.
Now obviously that’s That’s just a general principle and depending on a particular WR can be altered.

I’ve watched us in several seasons have a great pass rush under Dom and just let Receivers eat us alive by playing 8-10 yards off the LOS. So effectively you know I’m a QB that MUST throw it under 2.2 seconds but you don’t try to disrupt the timing of that 5 yard route? In the only area of the field that the refs freely expect you to tangle with your opponent? That’s not using logic ti me. That’s just craziness. So you are wearing your own pass rushers out by extending the field. What the heck is that some Vulcan live long and prosper thing?

 

[Mondio]

Rasul thrived in a zone scheme, why isn't he now? Playing man means you use your safeties differently etc. They have plan to use everyone how they think they can work best and that goes beyond what jaire Alexander is best at. My guess is they'll mix it up, but you can't keep dropping coverages like they are no matter what they're playing.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I bet #12 could’ve gotten 2 yards here. Now what Hospital he would stay at would be the next debate

i don’t want to come across as a know it all because I know very little. However I’ve watched enough football to know if I’m a coach and I have above League average pass rush I play more man and full court press.
The worse I am on pass rush efficiency? the less full court press I use.
That’s just a general rule, but I’ve watched us in several seasons have a great pass rush under Dom and just let Receivers eat us alive by playing 8-10 yards off the LOS.

I agree with all of this. Why did Gluten bring in Jarran Reed and draft Wyatt if not to improve the pass rush and the run D? And you nailed it. If you get pressure on the QB consistently, you play man coverage. My point is that with such talented corners, you always play man. A mobile QB will just move around until a receiver clears a zone. In most cases, the receiver looks like he's on an island - he's that open.

It's maddening to me to watch the corners back up - as you say - 8 to 10 yards before the snap. Any QB would take that D apart. Maybe zone is all Barry knows how to coach. I know it's easy to criticize him now, but I don't know why MLF handed such a talented D to such a mediocre coordinator. Or maybe it was Murphy's decision. I can't believe Gluten was involved, a problem all by itself.

(And I think even "old" #12 could have found a way to get outside, or inside maybe, and pick up the two yards, without needing an ambulance.....)

 

[Heyjoe4]

Rasul thrived in a zone scheme, why isn't he now? Playing man means you use your safeties differently etc. They have plan to use everyone how they think they can work best and that goes beyond what jaire Alexander is best at. My guess is they'll mix it up, but you can't keep dropping coverages like they are no matter what they're playing.

Good point. Douglas could more easily jump a route in zone. Not this year, so far.

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree with all of this. Why did Gluten bring in Jarran Reed and draft Wyatt if not to improve the pass rush and the run D? And you nailed it. If you get pressure on the QB consistently, you play man coverage. My point is that with such talented corners, you always play man. A mobile QB will just move around until a receiver clears a zone. In most cases, the receiver looks like he's on an island - he's that open.

It's maddening to me to watch the corners back up - as you say - 8 to 10 yards before the snap. Any QB would take that D apart. Maybe zone is all Barry knows how to coach. I know it's easy to criticize him now, but I don't know why MLF handed such a talented D to such a mediocre coordinator. Or maybe it was Murphy's decision. I can't believe Gluten was involved, a problem all by itself.

(And I think even "old" #12 could have found a way to get outside, or inside maybe, and pick up the two yards, without needing an ambulance.....)

Amen. Plus the CB’s we have in Rasul and J’aire have a very aggressive tone. They let that physicality completely go inside 5 yards it’s called taking advantage of the rule book