Packers vs Steelers Game Thread: The Rodgers Game Edition

[Voyageur]

The other aspect we’re learning each game is that Musgrave doesn’t seem to be progressing. Granted that Kraft has the spotlight and rightfully so. I still think if there was 1 area of improvement it would be a relief TE that is more equally balanced than Fitz or Musgrave (Run Block and Receiving ability). I see Fitz primarily as a Blocker with adequate ability to snag a catch if left unattended. If we had a secondary TE that could rightfully step in Tucker’s absence. Not to march Tucker, but more in that Tonyan range.

Mine are nitpicking some but just exploring ways to better our Roster. We want to be Robust in nature and not rely solely on 1 player at any given position. I like what we’re seeing from Wilson though he’s been a really nice surprise for a complimentary RB. Some forget he’s been here awhile now. He performed great in Postseason in the 2023 campaign.

I hate to give up in Musgrave, but he’s been very inconsistent. For me he’s got the rest of 2025 to elevate his game and I’m totally in his corner. Once 2026 draft comes around I think GB might need to spend a Day3 at TE.

Kraft is so darned good that they can't afford to take him off the field more than they have to so Musgrave can get playing time. Fitz offers that 3rd man up option and he gets a few snaps just so he doesn't want to give up on himself.

I believe that any major success we see from Golden and Watson this year will be because of the coverage teams need to expend in keeping Kraft and Doubs in check in the short and intermediate routes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I get the opinion of not, I just don't think Gute would continue to risk the loss of guys without being able to replenish - he cherishes draft picks too much. NOW, that said, Gute also isn't one to just burn a guy for a 7th either if the cost of having to wait forever for a return comp pick and having the guy in house is deemed worth it.

This is also all speaking to a time that no one sees yet, IF Savion continues to progress and say Gute picks a 5th rounder he and the staff loved and thought would be gone day 2 this next April...you just simply have to accept the numbers game and move someone. I also know the team REALLY loves Heath and his role and his continued ability to answer ever bell rang for him....and he is an RFA so say all that plays out as above:

Watson | Doubs | Golden | Reed | Wicks | Savion | Heath | Rookie Draft Pick.....it would be at that point poor roster construction to not try and move one....even if it is a player swap rather than a pick coming back even.

This team has proven to be an effective if not still lethal offense with some of those guys out even.

All true and I keep forgetting about Savion Williams. That said, I guess as of today, he is kind of easy to forget, he hasn't done much, but then again, he is just a rookie. Also, a rookie that was hampered in camp and beyond, by various injuries.

Who knows how good he may or may not be, but I wouldn't make any plans around him until more is known. Sidenote, at least for now, I am so done with him lining up in the wildcat. Unless they can add some kind of wrinkle to it, that doesn't make the defense just smile and say "Come at us Savion, we're ready."

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Kraft is so darned good that they can't afford to take him off the field more than they have to so Musgrave can get playing time. Fitz offers that 3rd man up option and he gets a few snaps just so he doesn't want to give up on himself.

I believe that any major success we see from Golden and Watson this year will be because of the coverage teams need to expend in keeping Kraft and Doubs in check in the short and intermediate routes.

Barring an injury to Kraft, which would give Musgrave snaps and targets as the #1 TE, I don't see much of a future ahead for Luke in GB. If he doesn't get that chance at making a name for himself, I guess it will all depend on how MLF and the staff like him as a #2 run blocking TE, that can catch a few passes. I can even see a world where his almost $2M 2026 salary, makes him trade bait for a late rounder or even a cut candidate, if someone beats him out for that #2 spot during training camp/preseason.

I haven't given up on Luke, but overall, he's been a disappointing early 2nd round pick.

 

[tynimiller]

All true and I keep forgetting about Savion Williams. That said, I guess as of today, he is kind of easy to forget, he hasn't done much, but then again, he is just a rookie. Also, a rookie that was hampered in camp and beyond, by various injuries.

Who knows how good he may or may not be, but I wouldn't make any plans around him until more is known. Sidenote, at least for now, I am so done with him lining up in the wildcat. Unless they can add some kind of wrinkle to it, that doesn't make the defense just smile and say "Come at us Savion, we're ready."

You also cannot expect depth guys to do much when guys ahead are. I just posted about this is one major reason why we really don't know if Musgrave has regressed as much as he simply is so far down the tree of "get the ball to" that he's naturally gonna be overlooked for awhile.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You also cannot expect depth guys to do much when guys ahead are. I just posted about this is one major reason why we really don't know if Musgrave has regressed as much as he simply is so far down the tree of "get the ball to" that he's naturally gonna be overlooked for awhile.

I think you answered your own question, if it was actually a question.

A 3rd year vet, selected with the 42 pick in the draft, is losing snaps to a guy (John FitzPatrick) that up until this season, had 2 catches over 2 seasons.

The only way I see a guy like Musgrave not getting overlooked, is to have the guys ahead of him get injured. He obviously hasn't earned much playing time or targets, while they have been healthy.

 

[tynimiller]

I think you answered your own question, if it was actually a question.

A 3rd year vet, selected with the 42 pick in the draft, is losing snaps to a guy (John FitzPatrick) that up until this season, had 2 catches over 2 seasons.

The only way I see a guy like Musgrave not getting overlooked, is to have the guys ahead of him get injured. He obviously hasn't earned much playing time or targets, while they have been healthy.

Wait....I am confused and also I think you misunderstood my statement about Musgrave.

Couple things...3rd year guys are of course by definition veterans but dude's that have had injuries and been in recovery for part of that are not interchangeable with full vested season type guys IMO, just my opinion of course.

Also he never only had 2 catches across 2 seasons.

What I meant by regression was compared to what he was player wise NOT production wise. I've mentioned it elsewhere, I think many of us (myself included at times) take states equating to level of play or value of a player...it simply isn't always the case. Musgrave simply put isn't the multi-faceted TE that Kraft has illustrated he is, NOR I expect did anyone expect him to be. One of the best things for Kraft's growth was honestly in many ways Luke going down...many forget Musgrave was producing big time his rookie year with trends for a full season leaving him at 58 receptions | 600 yards | 78 Targets...before Musgrave went down Tucker in ten games had only put up 5 recptions, 43 yards.

Musgrave came back to a team that had saw growth out of Doubs, Watson, Heath and drafted Wicks and Reed and Tucker was looking like the second coming of Kittle and also added Josh Jacobs and that was just when he came back in 2024...now we've also added Savion and Golden plus Emanuel Wilson has grown into a bonafide threat and Chris Brooks is one of the best pass blockers for third down calls...we are far from the offensive team for the better since he was putting up yards in 2023 early.

The landscape has changed so much for weapons and options that I don't think it is as easy to say "Musgrave has regressed" as a player due to we are an entirely different team that isn't going to carve out a role for him because we've got a TON of others before him.

I could see him for sure like you said be a bargaining chip in a trade by Gute or be a guy that is here through 2026 and then we resign for a few million a year as a depth TE since he won't have the production to go out and get paid big money...and instead take a two year deal here with the chance that if he gets a chance it is with a system he knows and a QB of high level in Love.

 

[OldSchool101]

I will say I do feel Musgrave due to his extended absences for injuries and the addition of weapons and Kraft showing not only to be a solid TE but elite has relegated him down the “get targets” tree.

If Musgrave became our TE1 I fully expect he’d deliver more…of course no where near what Kraft does but I think some of the criticism to Musgrave is underserved and is more so a testament to the roster assembled.

Well I suppose it’s a good problem to have. Too many good options.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Also he never only had 2 catches across 2 seasons.

No, but John FitzPatrick had only had 2 catches before this season. Look at what I said.



I mean I get what you are saying about Musgrave, but the bottom line is that he has suited up for all 7 games, as has Fitz, and they are pretty close in snap counts and receptions. Yes, the other receiving threats are possibly taking away from Musgraves targets. However, it isn't like other offenses aren't using dual TE threats in their offenses. Maybe injuries took their toll on Luke, but all that optimism we had about him (at least I did) is about gone.

 

[tynimiller]

No, but John FitzPatrick had only had 2 catches before this season. Look at what I said.



I mean I get what you are saying about Musgrave, but the bottom line is that he has suited up for all 7 games, as has Fitz, and they are pretty close in snap counts and receptions. Yes, the other receiving threats are possibly taking away from Musgraves targets. However, it isn't like other offenses aren't using dual TE threats in their offenses. Maybe injuries took their toll on Luke, but all that optimism we had about him (at least I did) is about gone.

Gotcha that makes sense misread the statline of two catches. I've shared before it isn't fair to view them in the same means because Fitz is far more an H Back TE than Musgrave and is used vastly different...although Musgrave is right now at least seeing more snaps than Fitz it sure isn't a lot. We very rarely send both TEs out on routes however as well if lined up stacked or both ends. At most the second one has a delayed release route, which I believe is three of Fitz's five catches. I'm at the stage where unless Kraft gets hurt I don't think we ever see what Musgrave really is again, and I never want to find out becuase Kraft is that special. LOL

 

[gopkrs]

For precisely the reasons given, I could see Musgrave getting behind the linebakers with the safeties otherwise occupied. It should be part of the playbook on game day imho. Doesn't mean you have to use it.

 

[tynimiller]

For precisely the reasons given, I could see Musgrave getting behind the linebakers with the safeties otherwise occupied. It should be part of the playbook on game day imho. Doesn't mean you have to use it.

There were two plays last week where Musgrave's route was gorgeous and he did just that but the play went elsewhere. Don't hold me to it but I believe one of them might have been the bomb to Watson actually but I remember one was thrown to Doubs for a decent gain.

 

[milani]

Talking about Doubs?

Doubs is just from a physical intangible stance slightly less than Watson - you just don't get many bodies with Watsons' size that can do what he does. Golden in order to do a lot of what Watson could do just from a physical stance is over 20 lbs lighter almost and nearly half a foot shorter. Speed can be very minimally refined and twitch can be somewhat enhanced but just phsyically speaking Watson > Golden > Doubs is clearly where they are physically from a uncoachable stance.

However, I would argue in some of the technique and things which can be worked on and become more crafted in Doubs shines and has for as young as he is from the start. Few examples of this...many times young prospects and even many receivers until years into the league really struggle with body positioning as their #1 ability to make contested catches. Many just chalk it up to whoever can jump the highest or have the longest arms...and while those things assist for sure, a WR that knows when to jump, how to use his back in a way you would fighting for a rebound can greatly eliminate a much taller and at times even more athletic defender from being able to make a play on the ball - a prime example of this is look at how good Rodman was at rebounding even when up against BIGGER, TALLER and LONGER guys. He understood more than most how to use his body. Doubs often shines at this...his floor therefore in this category is much higher than most.

Watson as example really to me at least still just relies heavily on I'm taller, more athletic and a freak to catch contested balls...if he crafts the artform of body control as well more so...it would be borderline Megatron / Moss level stuff, which those two were insane at this (and both were arguably athletic freaks as well).

Doubs to me very much strikes me as a guy that really could follow the Donald Driver type pathway career wise....just quietly does everything good and borderline great, never is a guy the league fears persay but all of his opponents always accounted for him. That's his best case, I think worse case for Doubs is a James Jones type career - very solid, dependable but always that quietly excellent WR2.

Watson and Golden could play out like better versions of Javon Walker or be legit future DK (Watson) or Jennings type (Golden - yes I know faster)....I just don't see the floor potential in Doubs being as separated from his ceiling as Watson and Golden arguably could have or may. Now for Watson we know more, we've seen his impact on games...he is going to be more than Javon so long as healthy - he's proven that much to me for sure.

I see Golden as more of a Don Beebe type in his early career with Buffalo before he came to Green Bay.

 

[milani]

Kraft is so darned good that they can't afford to take him off the field more than they have to so Musgrave can get playing time. Fitz offers that 3rd man up option and he gets a few snaps just so he doesn't want to give up on himself.

I believe that any major success we see from Golden and Watson this year will be because of the coverage teams need to expend in keeping Kraft and Doubs in check in the short and intermediate routes.

Moving the ball around is crucial. The better teams will have a plan for Kraft. Watch how some teams game plan against Kelce. He burned his opponent on MNF but there are other defenses that will give up something to slow him down. It will be interesting to see how Philly plays him next week. Forcing Tucker to stay home on blitzes might be a tactic.