Official Tampa thread

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HardRightEdge

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When the contract values changed the chart that Dallas came up with became more obsolete. Not all drafts are equal in my eyes and it should be a case by case basis
Like I said, the chart is a rule of thumb and a baseline. I would not expect anybody would follow it slavishly.

I question whether the rookie salary scale has changed the charts much as you suggest.

I looked at the Julio Jones trade, one the most notable draft pick trades since the rookie salary scale was installed. If you assume that Atlanta's #27 position in 2011 was going to apply again in 2012 for the future picks, Atlanta overpaid by about 400 points or about 20%, the equivalent of a mid-second round pick. That's not a big discrepancy given the scope of the trade.

I also looked at the 5 trades in the 2014 draft that involved 1st. round picks. 4 of those trades tracked very closely with the chart; they involved only 2014 picks so the positioning of each pick was known. That makes sense...no guess work on value of future picks, no discounting of future picks for "time value"...a pick now is worth more than the same pick next year for many managements.

The Watkins trade was an outlier. But it involved future picks of uncertain value. The Bills traded up to #4 with their 1st. rounder in 2014 (#9), plus their 1st. rounder in 2015, plus a 4th. rounder in 2015.

If one assumed the Bills would end up in the #9 spot again in 2015, the trade was lopsided...Watkins at 1800 points vs. the picks worth 1350 + 1350 + 84 = 2784. However, like the Julio Jones trade, Buffalo saw themselves as a playoff contender if they could get Manual another play maker, so they no doubt downgraded the value of their 2015 picks.

The Bills were right. If the draft were today, they'd be somewhere between the 18 - 20 spots in the first round. I'm not going to check the tie breaker rules so lets assume 19. That brings the Bills point value down to 2,289, a similar overpayment as in the Jones trade.

I draw a couple of conclusions.

- Trades are more likely to be close in value as defined in the chart if the trade involves only picks in that draft where the relative values are known.

- Teams that perceive themselves to be missing a key piece will pay a premium to trade up especially when it involves future picks of unknown value. Optimism and time value discounts the future picks.

- I don't see any reason not to still use the chart as a rule of thumb.

- According the chart, a team would need to trade 3 entire drafts from the #30 spot to move up for a single #1 pick. I have a hard time seeing the rookie salary scale increasing that cost.

- The chart is still better than throwing numbers at the wall.

Edit: I forgot about the RGIII trade. The Skins traded three first round picks and a #39. The Skins were picking at #6. If one assumed the future Skin first rounders would be out of the #6 slots as in 2012, the chart says this was a very lopsided trade. RGII: 2600 points; 4 Ram picks: 5310. The chart was right...the Redskins paid too much.
 
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Deleted member 6794

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I wasn't speaking on his behalf, I was addressing him before you decided to respond for him.

He wants a player similar to someone I have seen predicted to go 1st overall. If he wants to clarify that I would take it to mean more coming from ... You know... The guy who I quoted

You must be really bored tonight

Now I get it. It's fine for you to assume what someone else is thinking although something like that has never been posted. On the other hand no one should dare to point out to you that nobody suggested what you read into it. :rolleyes:
 
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Deleted member 6794

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If Williams will go super high in the draft, so will similar players.

There are at least two other defensive tackles expected to go in the first round with Eddie Goldman and Danny Shelton. While they're not as highly regarded as Williams they're similar players possibly still on the board when the Packers pick.

BTW just being projected to be a better player in the NFL doesn't mean it works out that way as well.
 

ivo610

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Now I get it. It's fine for you to assume what someone else is thinking although something like that has never been posted. On the other hand no one should dare to point out to you that nobody suggested what you read into it. :rolleyes:

do you always go around speaking on what others think?

He wanted a Williams type player. up until last week or 2, the projected 1st overall pick. I guess we see it differently.
 
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do you always go around speaking on what others think?

He wanted a Williams type player. up until last week or 2, the projected 1st overall pick. I guess we see it differently.

You were the one posting that you would prefer not trading away an entire draft to trade up (which I correctly pointed out nobody suggested in this thread).

It's possible that Williams drops in the draft for whatever reason and is still there when the Packers pick. It's not likely but it happened before (2005 anyone???).
 
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Anyone else mildly anxious about this game?
As bad a D as Tampa might have, this is a MUST win. Not to mention, as I offered earlier in the year, it's very important to gain cohesiveness going into the playoffs. IMO, that means consecutive games with an O and D playing at a playoff level.. Sunday needs to be that game.
There are 3 things Tampa is going to key on that we have to counter..
1. Running the ball effectively and chewing up the clock
2. Negating the GB deep ball threat
3. Winning the turnover battle and making a game changing play early
 
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Bryan Bulaga has been upgraded to probable for tomorrow's game.
 

yooperpackfan

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Anyone else mildly anxious about this game?
As bad a D as Tampa might have, this is a MUST win. Not to mention, as I offered earlier in the year, it's very important to gain cohesiveness going into the playoffs. IMO, that means consecutive games with an O and D playing at a playoff level.. Sunday needs to be that game.
There are 3 things Tampa is going to key on that we have to counter..
1. Running the ball effectively and chewing up the clock
2. Negating the GB deep ball threat
3. Winning the turnover battle and making a game changing play early
I'm very anxious about this game.
The Packers have lost 7 0f 8 at Raymond James Stadium.
Rodgers threw 3 interceptions in a loss the last time he played there.
The Bucs could come out loosey goosey and play like champs.
The Packers could come out tight and pressing.
The Packers traditionally have not played well in the State of Florida.
Darn right I'm anxious.
 

TJV

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- I am not anxious about this game. If the Packers can’t win this away game after losing at Buffalo, IMO they aren’t challenging for a title this season.

- I think the Packers should draft players of the same caliber as early first round picks – or Reggie White type players – at every pick. I wonder why Thompson doesn’t do that? ... Conspiracy?
 

Mklangelo

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I am not anxious about this game. If the Packers can’t win this away game after losing at Buffalo, IMO they aren’t challenging for a title this season.
Understatement of the year. :tup:
We lose this one and... Well, I shudder at the thought.
 
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JBlood

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I've been thinking on this one. Not much I can do going through chemo, anyway pack has this one players on o-line want to show fans it was a fluke. On how bad they played Lacy will get the yards he needs to break 1000 yards d-line will stand strong, game will be fun to watch pack 48 bucks 7.
Sorry to hear of your need for chemo--certainly hope for the best possible outcome with it. I think your Packers will help out with a big win on Sunday.
 

ThePerfectBeard

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I think we'll win as long as we get to the quarterback. Otherwise it's going to be a long day with the amount of height they have at wide out and tight end.
 

Mklangelo

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I can't believe how worried many are over a game with a 2 win team. If we can't win this one, I'll have serious doubts about this team and it's staff.

Chalk this one up. Pack will win.

If this team has a heart at all, and I think they have a big one, they will be looking for blood and they will smell it in Tampa Bay.
 
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ivo610

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It's possible that Williams drops in the draft for whatever reason and is still there when the Packers pick. It's not likely but it happened before (2005 anyone???).

And its possible Crosby could be NFL MVP next season (1982 anyone???)
 

PackwillBEback

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I can't believe how worried many are over a game with a 2 win team. If we can't win this one, I'll have serious doubts about this team and it's staff.

Chalk this one up. Pack will win.
Packers have never won in Buffalo and lost again. They always struggle against TB especially in TB....
 

Mklangelo

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Packers have never won in Buffalo and lost again. They always struggle against TB especially in TB....

For the 2012, 2013 and 2014 season thus far for the Pack:

At home: .772*
On the Road: .521* :eek:

There was a tie in 2013 in Lambeau with the Vikes.

I think if you go much further back than 2 or 3 years for team stats, you run the risk of comparing apples and oranges.

*During the stretch Rodgers had the broken collarbone last year: At home: .250 On the Road: .333
 
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MichiganSportsTalk

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Johnson after the week 3 meeting against GB was 10 targets/6 receptions for 82 yards and 0 TDs averaging 13.67 yards per catch. Long was 26 yards.

For what its worth, he didn't finish the game. He left with an ankle injury in the 4third quarter.
 

Hincha

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I can't believe how worried many are over a game with a 2 win team. If we can't win this one, I'll have serious doubts about this team and it's staff.

Chalk this one up. Pack will win.

Agreed... I think Packers win this by double digits.

TB does not have a good run or pass defense and McCoy is out. This is not a great defense like Seattle, Detroit, Buffalo or even Miami. This will be more like playing at Chicago IMO.
 

ExpatPacker

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I think we're pretty much all on the same page here. If the Packers can't win this game, if they can't find a way to bounce back strong after last week's defeat, then they ain't a playoff contender in the first place.

I think they will bounce back.
 
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And its possible Crosby could be NFL MVP next season (1982 anyone???)

If you really think that it has happened only once in NFL history that a player considered a top 5 pick during the season has dropped significantly on draft day you haven't followed the league closely.
 

droppino

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C'mon guys, the Packers will win and Bears will also do it. We will lead the conference and go to the PO without pass through the WC. I'm sure of this, we must be confident!!!
 
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C'mon guys, the Packers will win and Bears will also do it. We will lead the conference and go to the PO without pass through the WC. I'm sure of this, we must be confident!!!

Once again, if we beat the Bucs the outcome of the Bears/Lions game doesn't matter. We would still have to beat them next week to win the division.
 
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