NFC North Comparison

JBlood

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You visiting Pittsburgh? Green Bay don't have but 4 trophies in their HOF. They won them, but they don't have the trophy(ies)
I guess you haven't experienced the reality that past accomplishments leave to us. Pittsburgh isn't quite 1/2 way to our level, but someday I'd like to visit there anyway. I understand their baseball field is quite nice.
 
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PackFanNChiTown

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I guess you haven't experienced the reality that past accomplishments leave to us. Pittsburgh isn't quite 1/2 way to our level, but someday I'd like to visit there anyway. I understand their baseball field is quite nice.
Actually if you research the Steelers' championships going all the way back (as it should be, though there are some narrow-minded fools who believe the NFL started only with the first Super Bowl), the Steelers have 12 National Championships but for some reason only credit the Super Bowl wins.

As I always tell my Steeler friends though, the Pack will get to seven Super Bowl wins before the Steelers do. :)
 

Raptorman

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Actually if you research the Steelers' championships going all the way back (as it should be, though there are some narrow-minded fools who believe the NFL started only with the first Super Bowl), the Steelers have 12 National Championships but for some reason only credit the Super Bowl wins.

As I always tell my Steeler friends though, the Pack will get to seven Super Bowl wins before the Steelers do. :)
Ah sorry no they do not. from 1933 to 1972 they had 7 winning seasons. 1942, (Redskins), 1947(Cardinals), 1949(Eagles), 1958(Colts), 1959(Colts), 1962(Packers), 1963(Bears). So those are the Steeler winning seasons prior to 1972 an the NFL champions in that year.
 
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PackFanNChiTown

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Ah sorry no they do not. from 1933 to 1972 they had 7 winning seasons. 1942, (Redskins), 1947(Cardinals), 1949(Eagles), 1958(Colts), 1959(Colts), 1962(Packers), 1963(Bears). So those are the Steeler winning seasons prior to 1972 an the NFL champions in that year.
I beg to differ there mister! I did another search and found out you're right and I'm wrong so how do you like them apples?










oh wait...
 

JBlood

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A bit of history for our friends: The Steelers never won an NFL Championship from 1920 until their first in 1974. They were in the NFL until the merger, then moved to the AFC after the merger, which was good for their futility to that point. League Championships in the AFC do not count as NFL Championships.

The NFL awarded a traveling trophy to the NFL Champions, named the Ed Thorpe Memorial Trophy, from 1934 to 1969. The Packers owned it 8 times. The last holder of the trophy? Your Minnesota Vikings, who took it in 1969, their only NFL Championship, and promptly lost to the Chiefs in the Big Game, the last before the leagues merged. Where is the Ed Thorpe Trophy? Nobody seems to know, but I find it fitting that a franchise like Minnesota would be responsible for losing it.
 

Raptorman

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A bit of history for our friends: The Steelers never won an NFL Championship from 1920 until their first in 1974. They were in the NFL until the merger, then moved to the AFC after the merger, which was good for their futility to that point. League Championships in the AFC do not count as NFL Championships.

The NFL awarded a traveling trophy to the NFL Champions, named the Ed Thorpe Memorial Trophy, from 1934 to 1969. The Packers owned it 8 times. The last holder of the trophy? Your Minnesota Vikings, who took it in 1969, their only NFL Championship, and promptly lost to the Chiefs in the Big Game, the last before the leagues merged. Where is the Ed Thorpe Trophy? Nobody seems to know, but I find it fitting that a franchise like Minnesota would be responsible for losing it.
Never thought I would read those words on a Packer forum. :)

And really, since no one really gives a damn about anything other than the "New" trophy the fact that it is lost is, well lost on a lot of NFL fans. Most under the age of 50 don't even know that it existed. It would be cool to find it at a yard sale however. This it what it looks like. Keep your eyes open.

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Oshkoshpackfan

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Hate to break it to you but I am correct. There are only 4 trophies in the Packer HOF. There is no NFL championship trophy anywhere to be seen. They won them yes, but they don't have a trophy for it.
well, good sir....I was speaking of overall titles....of which there are much more than 4. Jealous haters....:)
 
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fanindaup

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I've been to the Packer HOF several times, and while Raptor is right about the four trophies, I will also attest those four are shiny and potentially throw a lot of glare.
 

JBlood

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Never thought I would read those words on a Packer forum. :)

And really, since no one really gives a damn about anything other than the "New" trophy..."

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A country without a memory is a country of madmen.
George Santayana
Again, you are correct. Sadly, the Super Bowl has become the origin of Championships, even by today's NFL leaders, who are primarily P.R. people more interested in the money than the game. The Thorpe Trophy is a treasure that any thinking person would like to see in a Hall of Fame--even if it were in Minneapolis.
 

AmishMafia

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Never thought I would read those words on a Packer forum. :)

And really, since no one really gives a damn about anything other than the "New" trophy the fact that it is lost is, well lost on a lot of NFL fans. Most under the age of 50 don't even know that it existed. It would be cool to find it at a yard sale however. This it what it looks like. Keep your eyes open.

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My theory, is that it is still in Minnesota, in a secret closet somewhere. It was a traveling trophy - they would have to relinquish the thing the next year. The Vikings had it and they knew they probably would never win it agian. They told everyone it was lost so they could keep it.
 

JBlood

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My theory, is that it is still in Minnesota, in a secret closet somewhere. It was a traveling trophy - they would have to relinquish the thing the next year. The Vikings had it and they knew they probably would never win it agian. They told everyone it was lost so they could keep it.
And they were correct--they never would have won it again. If anyone still has it, my first guess would be the Mike Lynn family. Maybe it will show up in a garage sale sometime.
 

Raptorman

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My theory, is that it is still in Minnesota, in a secret closet somewhere. It was a traveling trophy - they would have to relinquish the thing the next year. The Vikings had it and they knew they probably would never win it agian. They told everyone it was lost so they could keep it.
Well, I wonder if they would have to give it up. Because it was the NFL Championship trophy and the "new" NFL Championship game was the Super Bowl the next season. They even named a new trophy for the NFC championship game in 1984. But from 70-83 I don't believe they had a trophy.
 
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PackFanNChiTown

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Meanwhile, somewhere in Africa, native villagers are reaping the rewards of the failure which is the Chicago Bears...
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AmishMafia

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Well, I wonder if they would have to give it up. Because it was the NFL Championship trophy and the "new" NFL Championship game was the Super Bowl the next season. They even named a new trophy for the NFC championship game in 1984. But from 70-83 I don't believe they had a trophy.
After the 1969 season, the Vikings lost SB4. THe NFL championship was still being awarded to the NFC championship team through the first 4 NFC vrs AFC championships. They may have continued the tradition, but called it the NFC Championship.
 

Raptorman

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After the 1969 season, the Vikings lost SB4. THe NFL championship was still being awarded to the NFC championship team through the first 4 NFC vrs AFC championships. They may have continued the tradition, but called it the NFC Championship.
During the first 4 Super Bowl both the NFL and AFL awarded their Championships as they always had. That championship is what got you to the Super Bowl. The First 4 Super Bowls were not, repeat, not, NFL or AFL championship games. That's why I say if you think about the "true" history of the NFL, the Packers have 15 Championships. 13 NFL Championships(including the last 2 Super Bowls) and 2 AFL-NFL Championships. But that is not how the NFL wants it to look for some reason or another. There is a piece of film footage out there that shows Lombardi complaining about playing KC in the first Super Bowl, because they had already won the NFL championship why did they have to play another game was his basic gripe. NFL network doesn't show it. But I have seen it several times.

They did not rename anything until after the merger in 1970. That is also the year the Super Bowl became the NFL Championship. So, the New York Jets have a Super Bowl, but not a NFL championship.
 
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PackFanNChiTown

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A great analysis on Cutler from a Bear forum Raptorman and I frequent. A little long but a good read.

As last night's odd showing against the San Diego Chargers proved to the Chicago Bears and new Head Coach Mark Trestman, this whole thing is only gonna end one way.

Yes, the Bears prevailed on the scoreboard at the end of the night, though barely so, and how that happened was hard to understand after a myriad of Charger turnovers seemed to stake Treatman's troops to a lead thought insurmountable. But these games aren't about the final score, nor are they really about the stats either. They're about progress, or lack thereof.

Therefore, throw out the curious 98.6 passer rating generated by "franchise"-QB "Oh" Jay Cutler, and the eighty percent completion percentage. For Cutler, the more things change, the more they stay the same, and it must be apparent now to Trestman and Bears GM Phil Emery "Bored," both of whom have proven swftly decisive in their decision making, that Jay Cutler is, to paraphrase Dennis Green, is exactly what we thought he was.

That being an interesting football specimen with all the physical tools that would appear to be necessary to be an upper echelon quarterback in the NFL, sans unfortunately the most important ones - savvy, guts, and a willingness to learn.

Cutler's four completed passes - and five targets - all to best buddy Brandon Marshall "Tucker Band" were a sad display that confirmed ol' Jay has neither the patience nor the inclination to learn the guru Trestman's new system and operate within it. No, just like Cutler's kafkaesque rejection of "Meathead" Mike Tice's pi55-poor offensive system that saw him block out everyone on the field except Marshall last year, he appears to have decided once again - as of course everyone says he always does - to do it his own way.

Even Cutler's touchdown pass was an ill-advised throw to Marshall. But worse than that one was the interception he lofted Marshall's way through double-coverage. Throw in two sacks on the first three plays, both of which were due to Mr. Cavalliere holding onto the ball too long (another ill the Trestman offense is designed to eliminate that Cutler won't embrace), and you have nothing more than another fake-it-till-it-looks-close-enough-for-the-apologists-to-say-you're-making-it performance by the ertswhile underachiever.

Of course, this is how it has to be with Cutler. He is a coach-killer, having cost even his handpicked quarterback coach Jeremy Miller his job last year, not to mention of course a host of others over the last near-decade. He is 30 years old, halfway through camp, and still doesn't know enough of Trestman's offense - a relatively simple West Coast offense dressed up with fancy terminolgy - to avoid the same old sacks and interceptions that have plagued him his whole career. He will never learn.

Frankly, though the shoopster had an inkling this was all Jay Cutler was ever going to be, the crashing down to Earth has been swift and shocking to even he (or, as Packfan may prefer after comparing the shoopster in another thread and perhaps properly so to Christ, "He"). No, the shoopster thought Jay Cutler, as deliberately perverse as he is, would at least make things interesting. You know - come out, have a pretty good preseason, start the season off strong, then struggle a bit mid-season before rallying at the end of the season to fall just short of respectability - say, 7-and-9 - and make Emery's decision on what to do with him in the offseason all the more difficult. But it doesn't look like Cutler's even got the moxie left to mess with his detractors anymore, though; his preseason - as well as his minicamp - as been startlingly lackluster. Last night's Chargers game showed it's not even the beginning of the end anymore; but rather the end of the beginning.

And so it goes for Cutler. Matt Blanchard - despite the injury - suddenly looms as the quarterback of the future. And Josh McC(l)own, unbelievably, doesn't seem like a bad watch come football Sunday if Cutler goes down, as of course he will because he continues to hold onto the ball until someone offers to dislodge him from it. And thus does the shoopster break it down . . .

. . . Cutler's sad showing bogged down the offense enough to overshadow a strong start from Matt "Don't Call Me Fort, or Forty, For That Matter" Forte, who ran with the abandon that seemed to elude him the last two years. Later, Michael Bush"whacker" showed toughness and fortitude running through also-rans. Their one-two punch convinced Trestman to suspend his passing offense and rely on the run, which of course warms the hearts of meatball Bear fans everywhere who still believe the Bears could run their way to the championship the way our fellow poster Mr. Wade "led" them to the promised land in 1963. Two problems though - one, this isn't 1963, and two, Trestman didn't come here to hand the ball off. The fact that he was forced to do so by Cutler's ineptitude is another indictment against Cutler that Trestman won't be able to overlook for long . . .

. . . Indeed, it was the run game, along with special teams and defense, that won this game for the Bears. Can the defense turn in one last turnover-prodding effort this year? Though few thought so, they seemed intent on proving otherwise last night. Is Jay willing to let them carry his sorry a-fifty-five again this year? Sure seems like it . . .

. . . On Special Teams, "Dumb" Devin Hester didn't run backward, and that's an improvement. He also sat stoically on the sideline as Michael Ford "lTD" showed the kind of return game Hester only dreams about now. Ford also ran effectively out of the backfield in the second half, albeit against stiffs, but may have proven himself a sufficient enough double-threat to make Hester the one-trick-pony expendable. the shoopster wouldn't mind . . .

. . . Above all, though, it was refreshing to see something the shoopster hasn't seen in it seems like decades from the Bears - rookies on the field, contributing, showing more than isolated flashes but consistent streaks of professional football ability. Kyle "Not For" Long is obviously starting material, wherever the coaching staff decides to put him. Blanchard himself looked like a solid professional, not a skittish rookie, before getting hurt. And Jon Bostic has shown in two games the type of speed and power that ingrate Brian "Hollywood" Urlacher last offered in 2005 or so. Emery was spot on in jettisoning the politicking, divisive Urlacher, though his bonus baby of last year's draft, Shea Mc(Sm)ellin, remains a bust in the shoopster's eyes until he busts out, if he ever does . . .

. . . So it's out with the old for the Bears, and in with the new. And though of course that's what we all expected of Marc "Not a Breastman" Trestman's first season with the Bears, who knew so quickly that Jay Cutler would find himself on the wrong side of history? Outside of the shoopster, that is, and, probably deep down, Jay himself . . .
 
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PackFanNChiTown

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So we're two weeks in and the Bears are 2-0 while the Pack share 1-1 with the Lions and the Queens bringing up the rear.

Any thoughts on the Bears so far? Are they getting the advantage of playing easy games so far or are they improved? Do they pose a threat to the Pack winning the division for the 3rd year in a row?

Two things I'll grudgingly admit, Emery is a better GM than Angelo, (I miss him), and Trestman has a better grasp on the offense than Lovie did.

Hated seeing them pull out the win yesterday but much of that was on the Vikes for the blown coverage.
 

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I wouldn't call their wins "easy" at all. I would say the Bengals and Vikings are at worst middle of the road teams.

If i'm being honest, I think we're going to have our hands full with the Bears this year unless we get better in the secondary. They have a LOT of weapons this year between Marshal, Jeffrey (gotten a lot better this year I think), M. Bennett (easily their best pickup since Marshal), and Forte. They've really been able to move the ball this year, and their O-line seems to be much better at keeping Cutler off of the ground, at least so far, this year.

I was really disappointed Minn. folded at the end because that would have been great for us if they lost.
 

PackerFlatLander

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Eh, nothing to see here. The Bears start like, 7-1 or 8-1 every f'ing year, nothing new at all. Can't wait until January, so all these Al Capone wanna-be's around here can ****.
 

Raptorman

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So we're two weeks in and the Bears are 2-0 while the Pack share 1-1 with the Lions and the Queens bringing up the rear.

Any thoughts on the Bears so far? Are they getting the advantage of playing easy games so far or are they improved? Do they pose a threat to the Pack winning the division for the 3rd year in a row?

Two things I'll grudgingly admit, Emery is a better GM than Angelo, (I miss him), and Trestman has a better grasp on the offense than Lovie did.

Hated seeing them pull out the win yesterday but much of that was on the Vikes for the blown coverage.
The Bears by all means should have lost that game. The MN coaches gave it to them by their stupid play calling. What's interesting is you get to see just how much Felton means to Peterson. If Felton was playing, that 1 and goal would not have ended up a FG. BTW, for anyone counting, Peterson has 49 more yards rushing so far this year then he did the first two games of last year.
 

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That's why I say if you think about the "true" history of the NFL, the Packers have 15 Championships. 13 NFL Championships(including the last 2 Super Bowls) and 2 AFL-NFL Championships. But that is not how the NFL wants it to look for some reason or another. There is a piece of film footage out there that shows Lombardi complaining about playing KC in the first Super Bowl, because they had already won the NFL championship why did they have to play another game was his basic gripe. NFL network doesn't show it. But I have seen it several times.

After the "Ice Bowl" the radio guy is clearly heard saying the greenbay packers are world champions, then changes it to something else

So I believe you
 

13 Times Champs

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The Bears by all means should have lost that game. The MN coaches gave it to them by their stupid play calling. What's interesting is you get to see just how much Felton means to Peterson. If Felton was playing, that 1 and goal would not have ended up a FG. BTW, for anyone counting, Peterson has 49 more yards rushing so far this year then he did the first two games of last year.
:sleep:
 

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