Breaking Down the NFC North, 2022 Edition

Voyageur

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I think Tonyan will be far enough in his rehab to be on the 53. And yeah, I thought DeGuarra was considered a FB in MLF's system.
It's true that Deguara is a hybrid TE/FB. That's what creates more value with certain packages.
 

Heyjoe4

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It's true that Deguara is a hybrid TE/FB. That's what creates more value with certain packages.
Yeah and at least later in the season last year, he was looking like a decent tight end. I don't think he's as fast as Tonyan, but hey, eventually Lewis is gonna retire and they'll need his blocking abilities.
 

captainWIMM

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Jordan Love > Trey Lance and Jimmy G. If AR goes down the Packers will hitch the wagon to Love and ride him into the playoffs, IMHO.

Love hasn't proven to be better than Garoppolo or Lance by any means. If Rodgers misses an extended period of time I definitely don't expect Love to be able to carry the team to the playoffs.

The Bears, with a serious lack of talent on both sides of the ball, are currently predicted to win 6.5 games with Justin Fields at QB ... do you honestly think a loaded GB team with Love at QB will struggle to win 10-11 games and get into the playoffs?

The Bears will get nowhere near winning six games in 2022. On the other hand the Packers won't come close to winning 10 or 11 games with Love as their quarterback.
 

Heyjoe4

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Love hasn't proven to be better than Garoppolo or Lance by any means. If Rodgers misses an extended period of time I definitely don't expect Love to be able to carry the team to the playoffs.



The Bears will get nowhere near winning six games in 2022. On the other hand the Packers won't come close to winning 10 or 11 games with Love as their quarterback.
I agree with you on Love. And it doesn't mean I don't like the person, and a lot of commenters seem to take negative Love comments personally. He just hasn't shown anything close to what I'd expect from a 1st round pick. He has to show something this PS if he hopes to have a career as more than a backup. He's been on an excellent team and next to to a HOF QB and 4-time MVP. I hope he's learned something. I just haven't seen it. I'd love for him to have a great TC and PS, pun intended. We'll see.

As for the Bears - well they've made a needed change at GM in Pace and we'll see how he and the new HC manage. But best case - they're in a 2 to 3 year rebuild and they likely, again, don't have their franchise QB in place. I guess I'm just not crazy about former OSU QBs. Has any other team gone through so many QBs as the Bears? They might win 3 games this year, no more. They can use that to get good draft position. But they traded away too much draft capital for Mack. That's almost always a mistake and sets a team back at some point. That's where the Bears are.
 
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Pkrjones

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I agree with you on Love. And it doesn't mean I don't like the person, and a lot of commenters seem to take negative Love comments personally. He just hasn't shown anything close to what I'd expect from a 1st round pick. He has to show something this PS if he hopes to have a career as more than a backup. He's been on an excellent team and next to to a HOF QB and 4-time MVP. I hope he's learned something. I just haven't seen it. I'd love for him to have a great TC and PS, pun intended. We'll see.

As for the Bears - well they've made a needed change at GM in Pace and we'll see how he and the new HC manage. But best case - they're in a 2 to 3 year rebuild and they likely, again, don't have their franchise QB in place. I guess I'm just not crazy about former OSU QBs. Has any other team gone through so many QBs as the Bears? They might win 3 games this year, no more. They can use that to get good draft position. But they traded away too much draft capital for Mack. That's almost always a mistake and sets a team back at some point. That's where the Bears are.
We can agree to disagree on Love for another month... by then he'll either prove to be a winner or busted 1st rounder.

Here's a list of # of starting QB's in the Tom Brady w/ NE time-frame from a Sportrac tweet ~ NOT in descending order which would've been helpful. :( Feel free to update to today if you care to do the research.
https://twitter.com/spotrac?ref_src...ne-amount-starting-quarterbacks-tom-brady-era
"Starting QBs in Brady's NE Era:
ARZ, 20
ATL, 9
BAL, 14
BUF, 18
CAR, 17
CHI, 23
CIN, 9
CLE, 26
DAL, 17
DEN, 19
DET, 13
GB, 6
HOU, 15
IND, 10
JAC, 14
KC, 13
LA/SD, 3
LA/STL, 20
MIA, 19
MIN, 20
NE, TB+3
NO, 6
NYG, 6
NYJ, 16
OAK, 20
PHI, 12
PIT, 10
SEA, 7
SF, 16
TB, 15
TEN, 16
WAS, 20
9:05 AM · Mar 19, 2020
 

Heyjoe4

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We can agree to disagree on Love for another month... by then he'll either prove to be a winner or busted 1st rounder.

Here's a list of # of starting QB's in the Tom Brady w/ NE time-frame from a Sportrac tweet ~ NOT in descending order which would've been helpful. :( Feel free to update to today if you care to do the research.
https://twitter.com/spotrac?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1240640492200755200|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/nfl-has-had-insane-amount-starting-quarterbacks-tom-brady-era
"Starting QBs in Brady's NE Era:
ARZ, 20
ATL, 9
BAL, 14
BUF, 18
CAR, 17
CHI, 23
CIN, 9
CLE, 26
DAL, 17
DEN, 19
DET, 13
GB, 6
HOU, 15
IND, 10
JAC, 14
KC, 13
LA/SD, 3
LA/STL, 20
MIA, 19
MIN, 20
NE, TB+3
NO, 6
NYG, 6
NYJ, 16
OAK, 20
PHI, 12
PIT, 10
SEA, 7
SF, 16
TB, 15
TEN, 16
WAS, 20
9:05 AM · Mar 19, 2020
Well I really do hope Love does well. It will make him a better backup for now, and ideally get him some attention from other teams if he doesn't stay in GB. I'd like the guy to be successful.

Thanks for these stats. I thought Chicage was the leading QB revolving door, but it's Cleveland. It's a good reminder of how fortunate we've been to have two starting, HOF QBs over a 30-year period. Kinda mind-boggling.
 

tynimiller

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Love will neither prove or disprove his starting future in the next month...he may show more promise or not but anyone believing certainty is going to come out of PS is naive.
 

tynimiller

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Who were the other four (Favre, Rodgers)....Flynn, Love....is it Senaca and Tolzein?
 

Pkrjones

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Who were the other four (Favre, Rodgers)....Flynn, Love....is it Senaca and Tolzein?
Favre, Rodgers, Flynn (1 each year 2010, 2011 & 4 in '13), Wallace (1-'13), Tolzien (2-'13), Hundley (9-'17) and not in my original list is Love (1-'21).

Call me naive, then, because I'm expecting to know A LOT more about Love this preseason. We'll be able to see his decision making, accuracy, and command (or lack thereof) of the offense on display in actual game settings. Don't care if our 3rd-string OL has trouble & allows more pressures than desirable... we'll be able to see how Love handles it. We'll also see if Love is able to get thru his 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes 4th read at times OR if he panics after the 1st/2nd read. There's a lot to see in these PS games, IMHO.
 
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tynimiller

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Favre, Rodgers, Flynn (1 each year 2010, 2011 & 4 in '13), Wallace (1-'13), Tolzien (2-'13), Hundley (9-'17) and not in my original list is Love (1-'21).

Call me naive, then, because I'm expecting to know A LOT more about Love this preseason. We'll be able to see his decision making, accuracy, and command (or lack thereof) of the offense on display in actual game settings. Don't care if our 3rd-string OL has trouble & allows more pressures than desirable... we'll be able to see how Love handles it. We'll also see if Love is able to get thru his 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes 4th read at times OR if he panics after the 1st/2nd read. There's a lot to see in these PS games, IMHO.

I'm not saying a lot cannot be learned, I'm merely saying christening him a winner or loser in his future by it is naive is all.
 

Mondio

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Nobody's future is known until they live it, but I'm fully expecting to see some growth this preseason out of Love. If there isn't, I 'm putting a tick in the negative column :)
 

Heyjoe4

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I'm not saying a lot cannot be learned, I'm merely saying christening him a winner or loser in his future by it is naive is all.
Correct. You both make good points, but it's not realistic to project Love's career, or possibly even his value, by what he does in TC and PS games. We can answer questions like - is he going in the right direction? Are his decisions sound? Is he under control during pressure? Does he have command and does he move the ball?

I'm less interested in the stats than what I see on the field and even on the sidelines.

And it's not like this is his first chance. Yeah the pandemic delayed things, but he had last year's TC and PS and he'll have another. If GB wants him to be a career starter, as opposed to a backup, we need some positive answers to these questions.
 
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The Bears will get nowhere near winning six games in 2022. On the other hand the Packers won't come close to winning 10 or 11 games with Love as their quarterback.
I disagree with that. I think with each passing year Love will improve some. I could see him in his 1st full season going 25TD/15INT, 3,500+ yards ballpark area.
Aaron Rodgers went 17-15 (barely .500) in his first 5 seasons. I think Love could do that because this roster is loaded and our Division isn’t as stout as it was back then.

I could totally see a possible 10-7 record in our weaker Division, strong Running game and solid Defense would play heavily into that. In 2022, Love would have to go 4-2 in the North, Then 6-5 over the remaining 11 games. That’s very attainable and I think you somewhat underestimate our HC, Running game and this years Defense combination.

If I were placing bets. My over/under with Love on this 2022 roster would be 8.5/17 (8-9 Wins) for his first full season. Finishing at 7-10 Wins is in the “very likely” area)
 
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Heyjoe4

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I disagree with that. I think with each passing year Love will improve some. I could see him in his 1st full season going 25TD/15INT, 3,500+ yards ballpark area.
Aaron Rodgers went 17-15 (barely .500) in his first 5 seasons. I think Love could do that because this roster is loaded and our Division isn’t as stout as it was back then.

I could totally see a possible 10-7 record in our weaker Division, strong Running game and solid Defense would play heavily into that. In 2022, Love would have to go 4-2 in the North, Then 6-5 over the remaining 11 games. That’s very attainable and I think you somewhat underestimate our HC, Running game and this years Defense combination.

If I were placing bets. My over/under with Love on this 2022 roster would be 8.5/17 (8-9 Wins) for his first full season. Finishing at 7-10 Wins is in the “very likely” area)
I gotta stick with Cap on this. Granted Love's body of work is small, but when he's had the chances, he hasn't done much. Nothing to indicate that if he took over instead of Rodgers this year that the Packers would/could win 10 games and make the playoffs. I get that they have an improved running game and D, but the QB leads.

Again I hope he has a great camp and PS. But he'll have to turn in some 3 or 4 TD games as well as QBRs north of 100 before I'll start to believe in him. And he'll mostly be playing against backups once Q1 is over. So it's not that big of an ask for a first round pick.

The good news is that we should get some answers, either way, by September. The other good news is that he makes for a competent BU QB if that's where this ends. And it will, until next season at the earliest.
 
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I gotta stick with Cap on this. Granted Love's body of work is small, but when he's had the chances, he hasn't done much. Nothing to indicate that if he took over instead of Rodgers this year that the Packers would/could win 10 games and make the playoffs. I get that they have an improved running game and D, but the QB leads.

Again I hope he has a great camp and PS. But he'll have to turn in some 3 or 4 TD games as well as QBRs north of 100 before I'll start to believe in him. And he'll mostly be playing against backups once Q1 is over. So it's not that big of an ask for a first round pick.

The good news is that we should get some answers, either way, by September. The other good news is that he makes for a competent BU QB if that's where this ends. And it will, until next season at the earliest.
First of all 10 games isn’t a guarantee of playoffs anymore. Really wasn’t guaranteed 2 seasons ago. I just don’t think Jordan is nearly as bad as being made out to be. The 2022 Packers Roster is not an average team. This is one of the better overall Packer rosters we’ve had. Outside of QB, Right there in the mix with 2020, 2014, 2010, 2009

This isn’t an average team and definitely not an average HC.
My argument stems partly from the very comment you made. A QB with severely limited play time cannot get continuity. You’ve got to give any QB continuity with an A team Offense for more than 1 week!

I’m not saying Love is a postseason lock. I’m just saying that with each passing season we’d expect some modest improvement. Some improvement and with this roster? He could definitely Win 10 games. It’s not inconceivable at all.

He’s essentially a 2nd year Pro to be frank. Love was never a selection designed to play year 1 (last season). He was a College Junior needing serious development. Is 2 partial preseason games enough?? Obviously not anywhere close, but that’s what he had before the games you are using for your evaluation.

Some Fans are mad and want the
player to fail to fit their narrative of being:whistling: a “wasted pick” (not necessarily you) They need to shed the prejudicial evaluation tied to their preference of wanting a WR, what 3 drafts ago. I say let it go! I’ve had GF’s that didn’t like me yolked with less grievances!:laugh:
I would be highly shocked if our backup QB either didnt improve or regressed. To use an evaluation or full season projection strictly on the minuscule amount of play time he’s had after 2 partial preseason and 1 full offseason? That’s Really not an accurate body of work to properly gauge him is it??
 
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Jayzee1981

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I agree with you on Love. And it doesn't mean I don't like the person, and a lot of commenters seem to take negative Love comments personally. He just hasn't shown anything close to what I'd expect from a 1st round pick. He has to show something this PS if he hopes to have a career as more than a backup. He's been on an excellent team and next to to a HOF QB and 4-time MVP. I hope he's learned something. I just haven't seen it. I'd love for him to have a great TC and PS, pun intended. We'll see.

As for the Bears - well they've made a needed change at GM in Pace and we'll see how he and the new HC manage. But best case - they're in a 2 to 3 year rebuild and they likely, again, don't have their franchise QB in place. I guess I'm just not crazy about former OSU QBs. Has any other team gone through so many QBs as the Bears? They might win 3 games this year, no more. They can use that to get good draft position. But they traded away too much draft capital for Mack. That's almost always a mistake and sets a team back at some point. That's where the Bears are.
Pace was fired as their GM a while ago and has been discussed here as nausea.
 

captainWIMM

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Call me naive, then, because I'm expecting to know A LOT more about Love this preseason. We'll be able to see his decision making, accuracy, and command (or lack thereof) of the offense on display in actual game settings. Don't care if our 3rd-string OL has trouble & allows more pressures than desirable... we'll be able to see how Love handles it. We'll also see if Love is able to get thru his 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes 4th read at times OR if he panics after the 1st/2nd read. There's a lot to see in these PS games, IMHO.

Teams mostly play vanilla schemes in the preseason, therefore there's not a whole lot to learn about Love solely based on those games. Don't forget that Brett Hundley led all quarterbacks in passer rating at 129.7 during the 2015 preseason when he was a rookie.

I disagree with that. I think with each passing year Love will improve some. I could see him in his 1st full season going 25TD/15INT, 3,500+ yards ballpark area.
Aaron Rodgers went 17-15 (barely .500) in his first 5 seasons. I think Love could do that because this roster is loaded and our Division isn’t as stout as it was back then.

I could totally see a possible 10-7 record in our weaker Division, strong Running game and solid Defense would play heavily into that. In 2022, Love would have to go 4-2 in the North, Then 6-5 over the remaining 11 games. That’s very attainable and I think you somewhat underestimate our HC, Running game and this years Defense combination.

If I were placing bets. My over/under with Love on this 2022 roster would be 8.5/17 (8-9 Wins) for his first full season. Finishing at 7-10 Wins is in the “very likely” area)

I highly doubt Love would be able to succeed considering a lack of talent at both wide receiver and tight end. Especially considering he has yet to prove that he can develop into at least an average starter at the pro level.

Some Fans are mad and want the player to fail to fit their narrative of being:whistling: a “wasted pick” (not necessarily you)

I don't think there's a single poster wanting Love to fail. There's valid concern at this point he might though.
 

Heyjoe4

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Teams mostly play vanilla schemes in the preseason, therefore there's not a whole lot to learn about Love solely based on those games. Don't forget that Brett Hundley led all quarterbacks in passer rating at 129.7 during the 2015 preseason when he was a rookie.



I highly doubt Love would be able to succeed considering a lack of talent at both wide receiver and tight end. Especially considering he has yet to prove that he can develop into at least an average starter at the pro level.



I don't think there's a single poster wanting Love to fail. There's valid concern at this point he might though.
At this point, it's best just to wait out TC and PS. I'm not expecting a huge improvement from Love - I don't think you are either. I also don't think the guy I've seen could win 10 games as a starter and/or take this team to the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong. Yeah the D looks great but as you note, the WR/TE groups are suspect. They need Rodgers. And STs is a work in progress. I'm willing to give Love the benefit of the doubt. He's a Packer. I hope he does great. Just not betting on it.
 

Heyjoe4

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Teams mostly play vanilla schemes in the preseason, therefore there's not a whole lot to learn about Love solely based on those games. Don't forget that Brett Hundley led all quarterbacks in passer rating at 129.7 during the 2015 preseason when he was a rookie.



I highly doubt Love would be able to succeed considering a lack of talent at both wide receiver and tight end. Especially considering he has yet to prove that he can develop into at least an average starter at the pro level.



I don't think there's a single poster wanting Love to fail. There's valid concern at this point he might though.
That last point is a good one because Love has become a lightning rod issue here. No one wants him to fail. Just the opposite. There are different opinions about whether he will succeed or not. Two very different things.
 
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I don't think there's a single poster wanting Love to fail. There's valid concern at this point he might though.
You’re wrong again! My wife told me I’m becoming too predictable just this morning. So… hmmm…

I’ve just decided I want him to fail!
(Captain, I don’t ever want to come across as predictable and I definitely don’t want her to be right! :coffee:)
 
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Schultz

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I agree with you on Love. And it doesn't mean I don't like the person, and a lot of commenters seem to take negative Love comments personally. He just hasn't shown anything close to what I'd expect from a 1st round pick. He has to show something this PS if he hopes to have a career as more than a backup. He's been on an excellent team and next to to a HOF QB and 4-time MVP. I hope he's learned something. I just haven't seen it. I'd love for him to have a great TC and PS, pun intended. We'll see.

As for the Bears - well they've made a needed change at GM in Pace and we'll see how he and the new HC manage. But best case - they're in a 2 to 3 year rebuild and they likely, again, don't have their franchise QB in place. I guess I'm just not crazy about former OSU QBs. Has any other team gone through so many QBs as the Bears? They might win 3 games this year, no more. They can use that to get good draft position. But they traded away too much draft capital for Mack. That's almost always a mistake and sets a team back at some point. That's where the Bears are.
I wish I got a free beer every time you posted that Pace was the new GM in Chicago. LOL.
 

Heyjoe4

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I wish I got a free beer every time you posted that Pace was the new GM in Chicago. LOL.
Yeah and the funny part is I don't even care, Pace, Poles, whatever. It's the Bears after all..... They have a new GM. They have a new HC. I don't expect different results.

Maybe I should just call the Bears' GM "Ryan" and the HC "Matt". Then I'd always be right.
 
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captainWIMM

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At this point, it's best just to wait out TC and PS. I'm not expecting a huge improvement from Love - I don't think you are either.

Actually I don't know if Love improves significantly over his performance last season. In my opinion the only way to prove he has is by excelling in real games, something he hopefully doesn't get a chance to though.
 
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