Free Agency: ILB

Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
95
Reaction score
2
Location
North Chesterfield (Richmond), VA
I love trevathan guy is a stud or Marshall I would be good wth either but after this season they will be the top targets at the position and I just can't believe TT will do such a thing with that being said a guy that from what I watched had become great against the run is mason foster. The skins had some good linebackers come alive and they may try to keep him but he wouldn't have the price tag or trevathan or Marshall I wouldn't think
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
What are the tag hits looking like for Miller? Because I don't see them letting him hitting the open market in any scenerio and I gotta believe he feels this is his time to cash in.

I assume the tags gotta be worth cap hits in the area of 12 mill per for him

The franchise tag for linebackers was set at $13.195 million last season.

However, all that said if we plan on pursuing him Peppers will not be resigned as he will free up much needed cash to fund the signing and looking towards other resignings as well.

Peppers is under contract with the Packers for next season. Releasing him would free up $8 million in cap space.

Danny Trevathan is 6'-1", 240 lbs and ran a 4.82 at the combine, before having reconstructive knee surgery last year. If he's plenty fast then why are we Packer fans so down on our own guys?
Jake Ryan - 6'-2", 240 ran a 4.65 at the combine.
Sam Barrington - 6'-1", 246 ran a 4.91 at the combine 4 yrs. ago (before foot injury).
Joe Thomas - 6'-1", 227 lbs ran a 4.70 at his pro day, switched from OLB after draft.
Carl Bradford - 6'-1", 248 ran a 4.76 at the combine. Fast moving forward, not sure about coverage. Switched to ILB last spring, so has a year of ILB experience in the GB system.

ILB was a weak spot on the D in 2015, but don't see too many FA that are huge upgrades to what's in-house. The four above need experience and strength (JT) but should be able to play faster in 2016 as they get that experience.

I didn´t realize Trevathan wasn´t any faster. Maybe I have to rethink about him being the inside linebacker I want the Packers to target.
 

Sunshinepacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,766
Reaction score
896
Danny Trevathan is 6'-1", 240 lbs and ran a 4.82 at the combine, before having reconstructive knee surgery last year. If he's plenty fast then why are we Packer fans so down on our own guys?
Jake Ryan - 6'-2", 240 ran a 4.65 at the combine.
Sam Barrington - 6'-1", 246 ran a 4.91 at the combine 4 yrs. ago (before foot injury).
Joe Thomas - 6'-1", 227 lbs ran a 4.70 at his pro day, switched from OLB after draft.
Carl Bradford - 6'-1", 248 ran a 4.76 at the combine. Fast moving forward, not sure about coverage. Switched to ILB last spring, so has a year of ILB experience in the GB system.

ILB was a weak spot on the D in 2015, but don't see too many FA that are huge upgrades to what's in-house. The four above need experience and strength (JT) but should be able to play faster in 2016 as they get that experience.

I think the Packers have fielded bad NTs the past few years, which has helped expose a stable a bad ILBs. So some naturally assume that the Packers need to find an "elite" ILB with the assumption that that's the only way to upgrade the position. Upgrades at NT and actually getting an average ILB on the roster would vastly improve that position. If the Packer had an effective NT on the roster, Thomas would probably look much better.
 

Ace

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
94
Location
Milwaukee
I think the Packers have fielded bad NTs the past few years, which has helped expose a stable a bad ILBs. So some naturally assume that the Packers need to find an "elite" ILB with the assumption that that's the only way to upgrade the position. Upgrades at NT and actually getting an average ILB on the roster would vastly improve that position. If the Packer had an effective NT on the roster, Thomas would probably look much better.

Is there factual evidence to back this up? Is Denver's D-Line that good that it makes Trevathan and his 4.8 speed look as good as he does? Not being a d*** here, I'm honestly asking because you say Thomas would "probably" look better. So, that would suggest that Thomas isn't nearly as bad as he looked, we don't need to vastly upgrade that position, and the ILB's as a group just needs help up front. So, I guess if this is true, then I would tend to agree and that IMO our biggest need would then shift to finding a NT who can make this happen.
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
IMO the instincts of an ILB have to be factored in with his straight-line speed and of course instincts are not easily - or at all - quantifiable. For example an ILB who reacts a half-a-second faster may negate his disadvantage vs. a faster ILB. If experience enhances Ryan's instincts he may become the ILB with coverage skills to replace the need for Matthews playing ILB - paired with Barrington. But if I were GM I wouldn't want to go into next season counting on that.

BTW, what are your thoughts on a drill done at the combine that may be a better indicator of a LBs ability to cover receivers than his 40 time? I'm not sure if there is one. For example the change of direction required in the shuttle drills don't directly translate but is a measure of agility. Is it just studying the player's game reps in coverage?
 

Vrill

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
137
Speed can be misleading. Instincts and angles are key here. Especially at the ILB position. I have seen some 4.5 speed ILB's not do much in the NFL before.

Some players play faster than their 40 speed. Meanwhile, others can play slower than their 40 speed. We like to call these things "Football speed"
 

Sunshinepacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,766
Reaction score
896
Is there factual evidence to back this up? Is Denver's D-Line that good that it makes Trevathan and his 4.8 speed look as good as he does? Not being a d*** here, I'm honestly asking because you say Thomas would "probably" look better. So, that would suggest that Thomas isn't nearly as bad as he looked, we don't need to vastly upgrade that position, and the ILB's as a group just needs help up front. So, I guess if this is true, then I would tend to agree and that IMO our biggest need would then shift to finding a NT who can make this happen.

No...probably means that he would likely look better but no guarantee. The NT position in the Packer's defense is a weakness. The 3-4 defense depends on the NT to keep olinemen off of the linebackers so that they (the linebackers) can make plays. Therefore, if the NT is not very good at doing their job, the linebackers are contending with more olinemen reaching the second level and that makes the linebackers jobs much harder.

Yes, the Broncos have a very good interior dline. Wolfe and Jackson are very good dlinemen, both are probably top-20/25 players at their positions.

I'm not saying the Packers don't need to upgrade at linebacker, just that, unless you think you can draft an ILB at the end of round 1 or 2 that will become Kuechly or Burfict, drafting an ILB high in the draft just isn't necessary. The Broncos get excellent play from a couple of ILBs that were 5th and 6th round picks because the Broncos have a very good defensive line and Von Miller. I'll also point out that both Kuechly and Burfict benefit from playing behind two VERY dominant dlinemen in Short and Atkins.

Just makes more sense to improve the dline in a draft this year that's noted for being very deep at the interior dline position. Imagine how nice it would be to have a guy almost as good as Mike Daniels on the dline playing WITH Mike Daniels...that alone would significantly improve the linebacking play since the Packer's linebackers wouldn't need to fight off blocks from olinemen nearly as often.

Or the Packers could go after Damon Harrison from the Jets. He's a 27 year old NT who is VERY good and the Jets will have some major decisions to make on the dline with Wilkerson also being a free agent. Wilkerson will be very expensive but Harrison, while pricey, won't be one of those major free agents. It's like last year when some were saying the Packers should go after Dan Williams, who ended up having a terrific year for the Raiders and would have been hugely valuable for the Packers. Williams signed a 4yr/$25mn deal last season. Harrison would probably cost more but he's also shown himself to be a better player than Williams did prior to last year with the Raiders.
 
Last edited:

Sunshinepacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,766
Reaction score
896
Speed can be misleading. Instincts and angles are key here. Especially at the ILB position. I have seen some 4.5 speed ILB's not do much in the NFL before.

Some players play faster than their 40 speed. Meanwhile, others can play slower than their 40 speed. We like to call these things "Football speed"

Nothing proves this more than the debate many were having between Mosley and Shazier coming out of college. Shazier was the guy some wanted because he ran so fast while Mosley timed slowly. Yet it was Mosley who made the Pro Bowl his rookie season and was pretty good this year as well (also helping illustrate how much a good interior dline can help the linebacker since Mosley had Ngata in front of him in Mosley's rookie season).
 

Ace

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
1,297
Reaction score
94
Location
Milwaukee
Nothing proves this more than the debate many were having between Mosley and Shazier coming out of college. Shazier was the guy some wanted because he ran so fast while Mosley timed slowly. Yet it was Mosley who made the Pro Bowl his rookie season and was pretty good this year as well (also helping illustrate how much a good interior dline can help the linebacker since Mosley had Ngata in front of him in Mosley's rookie season).

In fairness, Shazier has been injured
 

Shawnsta3

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
1,273
Reaction score
137
Location
Manawa & Shawano, WI
Nothing proves this more than the debate many were having between Mosley and Shazier coming out of college. Shazier was the guy some wanted because he ran so fast while Mosley timed slowly. Yet it was Mosley who made the Pro Bowl his rookie season and was pretty good this year as well (also helping illustrate how much a good interior dline can help the linebacker since Mosley had Ngata in front of him in Mosley's rookie season).
Mosley has had the better career so far, no argument there but I got to watch Pittsburgh in the playoffs this year and Shazier's speed was making plays everywhere. Both would be an easy upgrade on this team.
 

Un4GivN

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
811
Reaction score
82
Location
Green Bay
Mosley has had the better career so far, no argument there but I got to watch Pittsburgh in the playoffs this year and Shazier's speed was making plays everywhere. Both would be an easy upgrade on this team.

Shazier is a BEAST if he can stay healthy... I'd take him in a heartbeat
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,285
Reaction score
8,013
Location
Madison, WI
speed, instincts, tackling and coverage skills all important when grading out an ILB. I think out of Ryan, Palmer and Thomas I have more confidence in Ryan's future, but very little with what I have seen out of Palmer and Thomas. Getting Barrington back may help the ILB position, but even he is a relative unproven commodity. I get the point of the front 3 having something to do with how good the linebackers look, but no matter how good your front 3 are, your linebackers still need to be able to cover and tackle in space and I didn't see a lot of that being done well this year. Move Clay outside, let Barrington and Ryan battle for one spot and bring in a proven FA at the other. This also gives us a bit of depth.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,001
Reaction score
4,920
I just want a ILB with a quick first two steps...we don't need a fast game changer, but a quick shifty one...don't get me wrong I want a Kuechly (sp) but logically ain't gonna be found in this draft or FA. Could Ryan mature into that like some other ILBs do after a couple years, sure...but I want a 1st or 2nd rounder as well! :)
 

TJV

Lifelong Packers Fanatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
5,389
Reaction score
954
This is from McGinn's grading column at the end of the 2014 season.
When Barrington was made a surprise starter in Game 7 he had played two snaps from scrimmage in 1½ years. From Game 7-11, Barrington played 32.1% because when Clay Matthews moved inside in Game 9 it was his playing time, not A.J. Hawk's, that plummeted. It wasn't until Games 12-18 when Hawk was demoted and Barrington's playing time swelled to 77.2%. Excluding Matthews, Barrington paced ILBs in tackles per snap (one every 5.7) and pressures per blitz (one every 3.1). Barrington isn't big (6-1, 240) or fast (4.76). He is aggressive, tough and can deliver a blow. Not unlike Desmond Bishop, he possesses the maniacal look and temperament that some of the great MLBs had. He got stuck on some blocks, ran around some others and tended to play small in traffic. He also needs a ton of work in both man and zone coverage. But, at this point, he's the best the Packers have. Grade: C-plus
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-2013-individual-report-card-defense-b99431313z1-289706171.html
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,285
Reaction score
8,013
Location
Madison, WI
This is from McGinn's grading column at the end of the 2014 season.

Barrington......He also needs a ton of work in both man and zone coverage. But, at this point, he's the best the Packers have' Grade: C-plus

I remember reading that or something like it and thinking "well at least the Packers won't sit pat and expect too much out of him". Except for drafting Ryan, they pretty much did. I just hope that doesn't happen this off season.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,285
Reaction score
8,013
Location
Madison, WI
I may be wrong here, but I don't think Matthews strong point is pass coverage. So when you have 2 ILB's with limited skills covering guys, it really puts a lot of pressure on your secondary to pick up the slack. I think we witnessed the failures of that too many times this season and hope Clay goes back to what he does best playing OLB and TT really takes a long hard look at what he currently has in the way of ILB's
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
15,893
Reaction score
3,796
Barrington......He also needs a ton of work in both man and zone coverage. But, at this point, he's the best the Packers have' Grade: C-plus

I remember reading that or something like it and thinking "well at least the Packers won't sit pat and expect too much out of him". Except for drafting Ryan, they pretty much did. I just hope that doesn't happen this off season.
They didn't sit pat though, because you need to upgrade at one position, doesn't mean roster turnover, injury, etc doesn't create other areas that need help to.

We were fortunate in that Clay could play in the middle, and we had decent OLB's to rotate in, and we could address the DB's, which they did and very well I think. If they hadn't, I think we would have a lot more problems on defense than we do. I don't see any of those linebackers available to us having a bigger impact than our DB's. I'm hoping we can get a good ILB from somewhere. I don't think last years FA were worth much for us, we'll see what draft or FA brings this year, but if we suddenly have a need at OLB and DL, I think you see GB shore up those positions before ILB again.

I disagree it means the team is standing pat, it means we have more important positions at which better players were available.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,285
Reaction score
8,013
Location
Madison, WI
They didn't sit pat though......
I disagree it means the team is standing pat, it means we have more important positions at which better players were available.

Won't argue semantics of "sitting pat", but besides Ryan, they did sit pat at ILB. No there were not a lot of options in FA ILB's, but there was the draft and potential trades options. My point was, IMO the weakest part of our defense this year was at ILB and that weakness was a result of both Barrington getting hurt and relying on the hope Palmer, Thomas or Ryan could perform well, they didn't. I don't think many of us were too confident with our ILB's at the start of the 2015 season and even less when Barrington went down. In 2016 our Defense is much better if TT doesn't sit pat on what he has at ILB, especially given the desire to move Clay back outside.
 
Last edited:

Vrill

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
137
We'll have some options at ILB this offseason in FA and the draft both. Its just a matter if TT goes after them.
 

Vrill

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
137

Wynnebeck

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
235
Reaction score
14
Possibly could take a look at Myles Jack. Too bad we don't know whether he's an OLB or ILB lol.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
I think the Packers have fielded bad NTs the past few years, which has helped expose a stable a bad ILBs. So some naturally assume that the Packers need to find an "elite" ILB with the assumption that that's the only way to upgrade the position. Upgrades at NT and actually getting an average ILB on the roster would vastly improve that position. If the Packer had an effective NT on the roster, Thomas would probably look much better.

While that's true in the run game where a good nose tackle can keep linemen off the linebackers it doesn't help an ILB cover RBs and TEs.

BTW I took a look at Trevathan's numbers from his pro day (he didn't run at the combine) and he pulled his hamstring on his first 40 yards dash, so the slow time doesn't mean a whole lot.
 

Latest posts

Top