Bears stud n duds

[Curly Calhoun]

I do. It wasn't all that long ago.

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/d-droppal-paddlehands.68553/






This was the start of Devante's 3rd year. Just 2 people, but I only looked at the first page.


History will repeat itself. Of MVS, GMo, Lazzard, and Kumerow, 2 will emerge and be impactful leaving the posters who are complaining we have no talent at WR besides Adams, confused. Or they will forget or say they suddenly became talented.

Thanks for posting this, and proving my point for me. I believe you have effectively shut that poster up.

 

[PackAttack12]

That's wrong.

There were some on this very forum who referred to him as "Paddle-hands". Someone even suggested they needed to sit him to play Janis more.

I am not making that up, no matter what you think.

My apologies, I thought you were referring to when he returned from the injury this season. There were absolutely some, if not a good handful, that wanted him gone a few years ago. That’s absolutely true.

 

[PackAttack12]

Thanks for posting this, and proving my point for me. I believe you have effectively shut that poster up.

Just now saw this. I clarified my position, and tried to remain respectful.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Studs:
Ervin
O-Line
Adams
Lazard
Kumerow
Clark
Lowry
Jaire
Savage


Duds:
LeFleur
Rodgers
MVS
GMo



When was the last time MVS caught a pass? I think Kumerow should be the slot behind Adams and Lazard. Maybe loss of playing time will wake him up, but he's not a #2 option right now.

The Offensive Line was excellent majority of the game, I believe they just got tired after holding those guys off for so long. For Mack's name to not be mentioned until the 4th quarter is amazing.

DBs need to hit the jugs machine, because Cousins will give multiple gifts in a game too. We have to capitalize on that.

Just because Rodgers and LeFleur have a good working relationship doesn't mean it's a productive one. That possession before the half was both abysmal and unacceptable. And for LeFleur to call a pass play late in the game Rodgers taking a sack to push us out of field goal range was equally the same. I like LeFleur; but this team needs a Head Coach and not a Head Offensive Coordinator. LeFleur has yet to show me that he is the Head Coach of this team. His game management and situational awareness is just awful to say the least.

 

[Mondio]

MLF's comments lead me to believe GMo is in the game because he's come up big on some long run plays, ie, he does the little things that make other parts go. I know people have their issues with him, trust me, so do I. But he's earning his playing time. I don't think any of our other guys make the passing game exceptionally better, barely marginally better, but they might hurt our run game if i'm reading between the lines correctly.

 

[AmishMafia]

MLF's comments lead me to believe GMo is in the game because he's come up big on some long run plays, ie, he does the little things that make other parts go. I know people have their issues with him, trust me, so do I. But he's earning his playing time. I don't think any of our other guys make the passing game exceptionally better, barely marginally better, but they might hurt our run game if i'm reading between the lines correctly.

Scheme! We have WRs who are not supposed to catch the ball and pass rushers who are not supposed to sack the QB.



Yes, I have heard coaches and players acknowledge GMos ability to block. Unappreciated by the fans, but our run game is the best it has been since Ahman Green days. It's not all just Aaron Jones.

 

[PackAttack12]

MLF's comments lead me to believe GMo is in the game because he's come up big on some long run plays, ie, he does the little things that make other parts go. I know people have their issues with him, trust me, so do I. But he's earning his playing time. I don't think any of our other guys make the passing game exceptionally better, barely marginally better, but they might hurt our run game if i'm reading between the lines correctly.

More importantly at this point, he has some trust and cohesion built up with 12. As you alluded to, he’s got some issues with holding on to the football as it relates to both drops and fumbles, but he’s fundamentally sound elsewhere.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Scheme! We have WRs who are not supposed to catch the ball and pass rushers who are not supposed to sack the QB.



Yes, I have heard coaches and players acknowledge GMos ability to block. Unappreciated by the fans, but our run game is the best it has been since Ahman Green days. It's not all just Aaron Jones.

More importantly at this point, he has some trust and cohesion built up with 12. As you alluded to, he’s got some issues with holding on to the football as it relates to both drops and fumbles, but he’s fundamentally sound elsewhere.

I too am aware of GMo's ability to block. But this is about MVS more than it is him. For his drops at least he make 1 catch a game, MVS has gone catchless 3 times this year I believe. That's not what you expect from a starting WR.

I would be in favor of this lineup:

Adams
Lazard
GMo
Kumerow
MVS

OR

Adams
Lazard
Kumerow
GMo
MVS

They could even interchange both of those lineups throughout a game so as not to give away whether run or pass.

 

[swhitset]

I do. It wasn't all that long ago.

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/d-droppal-paddlehands.68553/





This was the start of Devante's 3rd year. Just 2 people, but I only looked at the first page.


History will repeat itself. Of MVS, GMo, Lazzard, and Kumerow, 2 will emerge and be impactful leaving the posters who are complaining we have no talent at WR besides Adams, confused. Or they will forget or say they suddenly became talented.

Adams was a second round pick with a lot of potential.. the guys you are comparing him to might be successful if given enough time but they are certainly not coming with the pedigree that Adams had.

 

[longtimefan]

Adams was a second round pick with a lot of potential.. the guys you are comparing him to might be successful if given enough time but they are certainly not coming with the pedigree that Adams had.

A street fa should still be able to catch a pass..
Route running..speed..cutting ability
.etc..is different.

But has to be able to catch..1st round or street fa

 

[swhitset]

A street fa should still be able to catch a pass..
Route running..speed..cutting ability
.etc..is different.

But has to be able to catch..1st round or street fa

No argument there.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Duds: Pettine’s idea of an effective D. He says they focus on stopping the pass instead of the run. So, when does that start? The middle is always open and that prevent D ******** is ridiculous.

The Packers have given up an average of 13.7 points over the last three games. The only thing ridiculous being fans complaining about them giving up too many yards.

So I put the fault of that on Rodgers as much as anyone. Plus apart from a few games, he's been awful in the 4th quarter this year, something he's going to have to change if we're going to go far in the playoffs.

Rodgers has a passer rating of 99.4 in the fourth quarter this season. While that's not elite it's definitely not terrible either.

Only unfortunate news from today is it looks like a week from Monday night we have a must win game if we're to win the division and get a top seed.

The Packers win the division by winning in Detroit in week 17 as well.

Also considering a rookie HC has never made a SB it kinda precludes SB or bust.

Actually Don McCafferty (1970 Colts) and George Seifert (1989 Niners) won the Super Bowl as rookie head coach.

MVS lacks confidence. Build his confidence with safe and short catches. Put him in position to make some safe catches and dude will show his potential. I dont understand why MLF keeps Gmo on, no matter how many passes he drops, but MVS is banned from the offense every game.

I guess the coaching staff doesn't trust MVS to run correct routes on short and intermediate throws.

But this is about MVS more than it is him. For his drops at least he make 1 catch a game, MVS has gone catchless 3 times this year I believe. That's not what you expect from a starting WR.

MVS has only one catch in the last six games.

 

[AmishMafia]

Adams was a second round pick with a lot of potential.. the guys you are comparing him to might be successful if given enough time but they are certainly not coming with the pedigree that Adams had.

True enough. But I can spin it this way: MVS came in with far less experience than Adams. He was much more raw of a WR. Yet at this point in their respective careers, MVS is as successful (and maybe a little more) than Adams.

But this push to replace MVS because of his issues is silly. Just as it was silly for some to want to replace Adams a little over 3 years ago.

Should we try to upgrade WR? Of course, we should try to upgrade every position. I just don't see the same dire need most see. This draft has a lot of talent and I expect us to grab a WR in the first 3 rounds. I have been calling for that for a few years, and we never seem to do it.

But if we do, he will give us very little in year one, and I expect MVS, Kumerow, St Brown, and/or Lazzard to be having a bigger impact. By year 3 he will be ready, when we are going to lose a FA or two.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

My apologies, I thought you were referring to when he returned from the injury this season. There were absolutely some, if not a good handful, that wanted him gone a few years ago. That’s absolutely true.

Fair enough. Accepted.

Let's all move on now.

 

[Mondio]

True enough. But I can spin it this way: MVS came in with far less experience than Adams. He was much more raw of a WR. Yet at this point in their respective careers, MVS is as successful (and maybe a little more) than Adams.

But this push to replace MVS because of his issues is silly. Just as it was silly for some to want to replace Adams a little over 3 years ago.

Should we try to upgrade WR? Of course, we should try to upgrade every position. I just don't see the same dire need most see. This draft has a lot of talent and I expect us to grab a WR in the first 3 rounds. I have been calling for that for a few years, and we never seem to do it.

But if we do, he will give us very little in year one, and I expect MVS, Kumerow, St Brown, and/or Lazzard to be having a bigger impact. By year 3 he will be ready, when we are going to lose a FA or two.

With Adams though, everything I saw from his rookie year was gone his 2nd year. The quick twitch, the routes, etc were not there year 2 like they were in year 1 and year 3. He was injured and it got into his head and affected his hands. I have not seen close to the same skills as MVS and he still runs fast. I'm not aware of a severe ankle injury that he's trying to play thru.

I wasn't sold year 1 on Adams, I definitely wasn't in year 2, but had a feeling it was the injury that was holding him back. I often said back then, if he works thru this he'll be pretty good for it. and he did and he is. But I saw things for him to build on in year 1. I haven't seen the same or gotten the same feelings for MVS yet and I can't put my finger on a reason why like I could see for Adams.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I get all of this talk of "we need to be patient and let this WR develop, it took this guy awhile too", might be correct, it's not a great strategy to use when 80% of your WR group falls into that category. I also think that history has shown that the odds of a high round pick eventually being more successful than a mid to late round pick is something to consider as well.

In the case of the Packers, if MVS was a #3 or #4 guy and there were 2-3 quality veteran starters ahead of him (like when Adams was young), then cool, let him develop. But that isn't the case. For whatever reason, Gute thought starting the year with Alison and MVS as #2 and #3 WR's was the way to go. That was mistake #1. Then he compounded the mistake by not making a trade before the deadline to improve what was obviously a weak position.

Not sure how this season will end up and if trading for someone like Emanuel Sanders would have drastically altered it, but I do hope that we don't ever have another season of having just one quality WR and the rest of the group are just unproven hopefuls.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I haven't seen the same or gotten the same feelings for MVS yet and I can't put my finger on a reason why like I could see for Adams.

Simply put, there are reasons that MVS was chosen in the 5th round and Adams in the 2nd round, one came out of college a better WR than the other. On another team, MVS might only be your 5th or 6th guy on the depth chart. In Green Bay he is being asked to step up and produce more. I said it in my previous post, this really isn't on MVS, but more on Gute and the Packers expecting way too much out of a 2nd year 5th round pick. Will he eventually be a solid WR? Who knows, but I don't expect the light bulb to instantly turn on in the next game or 2, nor should the Packers or their fans.

 

[tynimiller]

MLF's comments lead me to believe GMo is in the game because he's come up big on some long run plays, ie, he does the little things that make other parts go. I know people have their issues with him, trust me, so do I. But he's earning his playing time. I don't think any of our other guys make the passing game exceptionally better, barely marginally better, but they might hurt our run game if i'm reading between the lines correctly.

Call me crazy but who thinks GMo could bulk up, put on 20 pounds at least and dare I say be a TE/WR hybrid? He has to be able block as well (or lack there of) than Graham ever has and has the desire to do so which is clearly evident on his blocking desire and ability in run plays.

Now I know it is crazy different blocking ends/OLBs than DBs and ILBs at times...but the more I watch GMo the more I think he isn't selfish enough to ever pan out at pure WR...

Has anyone in the league that anyone can remember ever done this type of move?

 

[tynimiller]

Simply put, there are reasons that MVS was chosen in the 5th round and Adams in the 2nd round, one came out of college a better WR than the other. On another team, MVS might only be your 5th or 6th guy on the depth chart. In Green Bay he is being asked to step up and produce more. I said it in my previous post, this really isn't on MVS, but more on Gute and the Packers expecting way too much out of a 2nd year 5th round pick. Will he eventually be a solid WR? Who knows, but I don't expect the light bulb to instantly turn on in the next game or 2, nor should the Packers or their fans.

While I don't believe fully with the claim he is a 6th guy on a depth chart elsewhere (maybe a few places) but MVS came from a small school where his raw skills won battles against opposition, not football skills or his route running or anything else. A receiver like that typically take a while of saturation in the next level to achieve sizable measurable results.....and honestly the dude "statistically" has outperformed Davante did at the same young experience level of 2 seasons (and actually with LESS games). Now, that is merely statistically...I don't think anyone would say that is apples to apples given the squad of WRs Adams grew up in the NFL with early vs whom MVS is.

All that said, everyone has gotta step back and assess MVS for what he is and just be thankful the dude has contributed to the level he has for being truly a raw extremely fast wideout that has NEVER really had high level competition week in and week out to play against and grow.....could he be a #2 in the NFL, maybe...should we expect him to play as one merely because of the situation? Nope.

It sucks...but we don't have a #2 in GB this year. We have a wideout committee after Adams, plain and simple.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Call me crazy but who thinks GMo could bulk up, put on 20 pounds at least and dare I say be a TE/WR hybrid? He has to be able block as well (or lack there of) than Graham ever has and has the desire to do so which is clearly evident on his blocking desire and ability in run plays.

Now I know it is crazy different blocking ends/OLBs than DBs and ILBs at times...but the more I watch GMo the more I think he isn't selfish enough to ever pan out at pure WR...

Has anyone in the league that anyone can remember ever done this type of move?

I don't think he is practice squad eligible.

I say that kind of tongue in cheek, but in reality there is some truth behind it. All sorts of players have been switched from playing one position to another, but unless they have a boatload of physical and mental talents, it usually doesn't equate to a success in the NFL.

For GMO it would be an all or nothing attempt at saving his career. I think he would be better off taking the off season to work on his routes, his ability to make a contested catch and holding onto the football after. He probably makes an NFL team next year as a WR, but not as a #1-3.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I don't believe fully with the claim he is a 6th guy on a depth chart elsewhere (maybe a few places)

He started the year as the Packers #2 or #3, but given his drop in playing time, he probably is being viewed as the #5 guy in the current rotation. So why would it surprise you that on another team, especially one with better depth at WR, he wouldn't be the #5 or #6 guy?

 

[gopkrs]

Call me crazy but who thinks GMo could bulk up, put on 20 pounds at least and dare I say be a TE/WR hybrid? He has to be able block as well (or lack there of) than Graham ever has and has the desire to do so which is clearly evident on his blocking desire and ability in run plays.

Now I know it is crazy different blocking ends/OLBs than DBs and ILBs at times...but the more I watch GMo the more I think he isn't selfish enough to ever pan out at pure WR...

Has anyone in the league that anyone can remember ever done this type of move?

Geronimo just does not look like he could bulk up. I still say he should always line up on the outside where he would be effective. He does block well for a receiver, but I think he would be more valuable as a receiver. The slot was not meant for him. imho

 

[Mondio]

Call me crazy but who thinks GMo could bulk up, put on 20 pounds at least and dare I say be a TE/WR hybrid? He has to be able block as well (or lack there of) than Graham ever has and has the desire to do so which is clearly evident on his blocking desire and ability in run plays.

Now I know it is crazy different blocking ends/OLBs than DBs and ILBs at times...but the more I watch GMo the more I think he isn't selfish enough to ever pan out at pure WR...

Has anyone in the league that anyone can remember ever done this type of move?

Listen here Crazy, I think Gmo could be force fed 15,000 calories a day of Steak, Cake, and Ice Cream and he'd still be 1 skinny dude.

 

[Mondio]

Simply put, there are reasons that MVS was chosen in the 5th round and Adams in the 2nd round, one came out of college a better WR than the other. On another team, MVS might only be your 5th or 6th guy on the depth chart. In Green Bay he is being asked to step up and produce more. I said it in my previous post, this really isn't on MVS, but more on Gute and the Packers expecting way too much out of a 2nd year 5th round pick. Will he eventually be a solid WR? Who knows, but I don't expect the light bulb to instantly turn on in the next game or 2, nor should the Packers or their fans.

I think it was more of investing 3 picks and yes, hoping 1 developed while filling other very glaring holes all over this team. I'm sure they tried to do better, but nothing fit the value and cost points. We are where we are. Regardless, I don't see development from MVS, I saw the same, then I saw regression and I'm not sure why. With Adams I could tell he lost some of his twitch and quickness and even then I still just had hope he'd be more like year 1 but better obviously. With MVS, I don't see it really and the regression without a cause concerns me.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With MVS, I don't see it really and the regression without a cause concerns me.

Has he really regressed or has he just not progressed? Maybe like a lot of other mid to late round WR's, this is all we are going to get? We have seen this story how many times in the last 20 years? "Wow, this guy could be the next Donald Driver!" How often have we seen it since Donald? How long do we wait? Seems like TT and now Gute have waited too long to invest high picks or sign a decent FA WR and this season we are finally seeing what happens when only 1 WR is a bonafide every down threat.

MVS had some success last season due to the fact the Adams, Cobb and to some extent Alison and Graham took some heat off of him. He was a 5th round rookie, not expected to do much. Also, helps to have #12 throwing to you. He wasn't ready to be a relied upon starter in his second year and I really hope that Gute doesn't make the same mistake heading into 2020.