TTMM connection

[lambeaulambo]

I have been hearing some things about these two. Both should be gone together. If Murphy won't do it, then three.

 

[PackerFanLV]

If you had to choose who's gone between TT and MM who will be gone and why?

 

[G0P4ckG0]

McCarthy because he is actively involved with the players on a daily basis and also has some leverage as to who gets drafted. Thompson definitely has his faults, but he is not responsible for the players showing zero motivation every week.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

What have you been hearing about those two? Something....scandalous? Are they having marital issues?

 

[Sanguine camper]

The scandal is that TT has really been dead for the past five years and the Packers have been proping him up like weekend at Bernies.

 

[Forget Favre]

The scandal is that TT has really been dead for the past five years and the Packers have been proping him up like weekend at Bernies.

Then it's a darn good thing they got this stuff by the truck load to hide the smell thanx to Jennings endorsement deal.

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[swhitset]

I'm not sure there is a right answer if one gets to stay, but to play devil's advocate, I'll say Thompson. Maybe a new GM will break the bank and get some top talent in here while Rodgers is still able to be dominant.... yeah silly I know.

 

[Forget Favre]

I'm not sure there is a right answer if one gets to stay, but to play devil's advocate, I'll say Thompson. Maybe a new GM will break the bank and get some top talent in here while Rodgers is still able to be dominant.... yeah silly I know.

I agree with that.
It's a tough choice but I think it starts with the GM getting in the right talent for the coach.
We need to stop drafting only rookies that will take them a few years of getting the hang of and experience in the NFL.

 

[Pkrjones]

It's a tough choice but I think it starts with the GM getting in the right talent for the coach.

... but will (slightly) better talent keep MM from continuously kicking FG's from the 1 yd. line instead of trusting his offense to punch it in for 7? I'd prefer TT stays if I had to pick.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If you had to choose who's gone between TT and MM who will be gone and why?

I don't think it makes a ton of sense choosing one as I truly believe that if the team continues to spiral downwards over the rest of the year both Thompson and McCarthy should be gone at the end of the season.

 

[Half Empty]

Sure, but it's a lot more fun that discussing the games. As long as we have the thread, I'll got with the opposite of post #4. I don't think it's about the GM getting the players to fit the coach but about the coach adapting his scheme to the players he has.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think it's about the GM getting the players to fit the coach but about the coach adapting his scheme to the players he has.

Well, it makes a lot of sense for a general manager to draft players being a fit for the offensive or defensive scheme being used. If those philosophies don't work with each other it's the GM's job to replace the coaching staff.

 

[Half Empty]

Sure, this discussion is along the lines of which part of the team is responsible for the horrid performance lately or is it AR or the receivers fault for the bad passing game. Almost never a 'real' answer to any of those, but 'there is enough blame to go around' doesn't lend itself to discourse. I just always want to ask, when people excuse the coach because of the players he has to work with, what exactly IS the coach's job? My contention is that he first needs to get the players to live up to their level of talent and secondly to adapt his philosophy if he hasn't got the players to do what he wants. After that, you get into a problem with time and reality. Certainly agree that, at some point, the secondary part of a GM's job (primary being to secure the best possible talent) is to find coaches who can make it work.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I just always want to ask, when people excuse the coach because of the players he has to work with, what exactly IS the coach's job? My contention is that he first needs to get the players to live up to their level of talent and secondly to adapt his philosophy if he hasn't got the players to do what he wants.

There's no doubt it's the coaches job to have players perform up to their potential. But if the general manager doesn't provide the staff with enough talent there's no way to make them overachieve in the long run.

 

[Half Empty]

Roger that, and we're back to an almost purely subjective evaluation of what the players' potentials are and how close they are to it, not to mention injuries (GM provided appropriate talent, coach doesn't have it available, whose fault?). Just as the answer to 'is it the QB or the receivers' is usually Yes, the pendulum has to swing pretty far in one direction before we're reasonable able to point fingers at specific management folks.

 

[Sky King]

... but will (slightly) better talent keep MM from continuously kicking FG's from the 1 yd. line instead of trusting his offense to punch it in for 7? I'd prefer TT stays if I had to pick.

Of course you would. Otherwise, you may need to create a new avatar.

 

[Un4GivN]

TT would be gone... His drafts have been atrocious for someone that is lauded as the best around. We have been trying to fix the defense for what seems like 20 years. Let's take a look at hits and misses in the top 5 rounds of the draft on defense.

Hit or at least serviceable (I'm leaving out 2015 and 2016 since they are so new yet)
1. Clay 1st
2. AJ Hawk (though still debatable consider you want a difference maker at top 5 picks. But Ill give him it, AJ was consistent) 1st
3. Raji 1st
4. Ha Ha 1st
5. Nick Collins 2nd
6. Burnett 3rd
7. Mike Daniels 4th
8. Hyde 5th

Misses
1. Justin Harrell 1st
2. Nick Perry (for Pick 28 he is useless without Clay) 1st
3. Datone Jones 1st
4. Jerel Worthy 2nd
5. Pat Lee 2nd
6. Casey Hayward 2nd (Although he is having a career year with a different team)
7. Mike Neal 2nd
8. Abdul Hodge 3rd
9. Aaron Rouse 3rd
10. Khyri Thornton 3rd
11. Jeremy Thompson 4th
12. Davon House 4th
13. Jerron McMillian 4th
14. Will Blackmon 4th
15. Carl Bradford 4th
16. Marviel Underwood 4th
17. Mike Hawkins 5th
18. Terrell Manning 5th
19. Josh Boyd 5th

So out of the defensive hits 4 first rounders, 1 second rounder, third, fourth and fifth. And I think i am being kind with Hyde putting him in the hit column.

And for misses he has 3 first rounders, 4 second rounders, 3 third rounders, 6 fourth rounders, 3 fifth rounders.

So his percentage in 10+ years for drafting defense is.
57% in the first
25% in the second
33% in the third
16% in the fourth
33% in the fifth

Overall he has a 42% success rate with me being quite nice about some of the picks. So he is right on his assessment of talent less than half of the time. I really believe this persona got built on the Rodgers/Collins draft, then blown out of proportion with the Raji/Matthews draft. He's really middle of the pack drafting at best, as he has wasted more than his share of picks in 10 years.

And if you ask me, this team is no more talented now, than it was in 2005 when he took over. That to me is true test of a GM.

 

[Mondio]

The mighty Patriots couldn't punch it in from inside the 1 in 4 consecutive plays. Led by the mighty Tom Brady, coached by the all knowing omnipresent Bill Bellichick and with the best TE in the league. Take home point, just because you go for it, doesn't mean you get it. It's tough to score points in this league, unless you're playing the Packers defense recently.

 

[sschind]

Your analysis of TTs draft history is less than meaningless without the same analysis for every other GM in the league. I say less than meaningless because its a highly subjective analysis designed to do nothing more than prove your point. You know that the 2015 and 2016 drafts have a lot of talent so you conveniently leave them out. I'll bet you a million dollars that had Randall and Rollins been cut already they would be on your list. Since they could turn out to be hits you discount them by saying they are too young.

I'm sure it just killed you to put Hawk as a hit and I don't know what more you want out of a 5th rounder than what Hyde has produced.

I'll wait for your analysis of the other 32 GMs before I comment any further.

 

[Arod2gjdd]

... but will (slightly) better talent keep MM from continuously kicking FG's from the 1 yd. line instead of trusting his offense to punch it in for 7? I'd prefer TT stays if I had to pick.

There's a lot worse than this going in these parts at the moment....

 

[Pkrjones]

Of course you would. Otherwise, you may need to create a new avatar.

You'd be surprised at the cheesy pics I can create in 10 minutes with my crappy photo editor.

 

[Vrill]

Here is the dilemma. If we keep TT, this means that our next Coach will have to agree with how we run this organization and the draft and develop philosophy. A lot of coaches out there believe in Free Agency and bringing in veterans etc. So we could look at it as if MM and TT are connected at the hip and both need to go - Or keep TT and find a coach that complies with our current philosophy, which might mean a smaller pool of coaches to choose from because I doubt every available coach will agree with how things are ran here.

 

[rodell330]

A doofus coach with a pretty bare coboard. Good riddens to both. I can't believe Schneider and McKenzie were under TT. At least they learned you can't be content on "draft and develop" in the NFL. You have to bring in guys to help win games until they develop. Looks like at least those two got it. It really makes me sick that we have a elite qb but a GM who either takes to long filling holes...or doesn't do anything at all! On top of that a HC who fell into a good situation but now is being exposed because he can't adjust .

 

[Forget Favre]

If we get someone new for GM can we get someone who laughs, smiles or shows he has a sense of humor instead of some guy who looks like he took a wrong turn from the mall and ended up looking lost from his wife and kids?
Ted always has that, "How the hell did I end up here?" look.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I am getting the feeling that there is possibly a movie deal in the works here to help finance the building of Title Town?

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