The Vikings are Fake

[Mondio]

That’s exactly true, the season rarely finishes like it starts.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Thank you, but be it known that was mostly frustrated venting post-tie.

Realistically, I always believed their OL would be a big problem, and I've always thought that Dalvin Cook is overrated. But beyond that, I never expected that their defense would be as vulnerable in spots as it's been. That's the surprising thing.

But there's still time for that to course correct. 7 of Green Bay's points came off of a ST play, Buffalo had a ton of short fields, and the Rams are kind of a buzz saw at the moment. So we will see. September is usually a month of flux for NFL teams. October and November is generally when they show you who they are.

The Bills game was fluky but they did give up two really long drives as well as the short field scores. Against the Packers they did only give up 22 but that was actually 6 scoring drives including one were a td got called back on a terrible holding call and lets not forget it was against a limping Aaron Rodgers. Even against the 49ers they gave up a lot big chunk yardage plays. Last night was just crazy.

If their defense even corrects to be good but not elite are they really a special team? Remember this is a team that is really one bad call from being 1-3. The sample size isnt super small anymore. Over a quarter of the year they dont look like a playoff team.

 

[PackerDNA]

That was more of a function of how the Vikings chose to play defense than anything and a brilliant example of how the execution or breakdown of a certain person or group makes the entire team look better or worse. Against most teams, and especially a team like GB with a shaky Oline and a 1 legged QB, you can play defense like that. Your linebackers never have to cover long and your Dline is on them. There is no way GB would have kept Rodgers in a pocket long enough for a receiver to drag all the way across the field then turn and go down it to hit a big play. But against the Rams, the Vikings couldn't play to the strength of their defense and then they chose to leave their linebackers on the field a lot rather than go to Dime.

But then the Rams could have killed them with the run. Lots of weapons, and great execution make that offense go. It's pretty cool to watch.

I saw nothing "innovative" or "new" from the Rams. They pretty much just lined up and played. The difference was, the QB was clean for as long as he wanted to be on 95% of their plays. They ran the ball very, very well on 1st down. 5,7,9 yards was not uncommon. and they didn't miss any plays. Every ball was caught. Nothing was fumbled away. Pretty much every play that was there to make, they made. How do you think they would have looked dropping or fumbling away 3 first down catches that resulted in TO's?

IMO it's more of a function of McVay. Goff was floundering before he came. And they are now an offence capable of hanging 35+ on any defense, any time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

IMO it's more of a function of McVay. Goff was floundering before he came. And they are now an offence capable of hanging 35+ on any defense, any time.

Goff played in only seven games before McVay was hired though.

 

[Mondio]

IMO it's more of a function of McVay. Goff was floundering before he came. And they are now an offence capable of hanging 35+ on any defense, any time.

He’s a good coach so far, has them playing well. But what specifically did they do differently to “scheme” people open? I watched, I saw lots of great plays due to great execution. Great protection, very accurate passes and every catchable ball was caught. I saw your basic formations, drags, outs etc. not a lot of fancy anything. Line up and go

 

[Dantés]

It's a little funny to me that these debates always emerge between coach and player. Brady and Belichick is that one that usually comes up.

It's both. And it's always both. A fantastic HC or OC can make a bad QB better, but he can't make a bad QB great. A good QB can't become great if scheme is completely holding him back. McVay is an innovator and a fantastic play caller. Goff was a great talent in college who is fast becoming an excellent quarterback. Together, they make for a stellar offense. We know that Goff with a terrible coaching staff was a horrible QB. And we also see examples of great (or supposedly great) offensive minds who can't get everything out of their offense because the QB holds them back (e.g. Nagy and Trubisky thus far).

Todd Gurley is a good parallel example. He's always been a phenomenal running back. With Fisher, he looked mostly terrible. With McVay, he's a phenom. But if you took him out and put Kelly in, it's not like the running game would be equally as good. You need both.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Todd Gurley is a good parallel example. He's always been a phenomenal running back. With Fisher, he looked mostly terrible. With McVay, he's a phenom. But if you took him out and put Kelly in, it's not like the running game would be equally as good. You need both.

I get your point but you're exaggerating when suggesting that Gurley was terrible with Fisher being the Rams head coach.

 

[Dantés]

I get your point but you're exaggerating when suggesting that Gurley was terrible with Fisher being the Rams head coach.

He looked mostly terrible (to me) in that after a four game breakout to his career, his performances were middling in 2015 and then he went on to post a 3.18 YPC on a full 16 game season the year following. McVay showed up and his 2017 made him an MVP candidate. He didn't suddenly become great, nor could McVay have produced those results with just anyone. That's my point-- fans often want to credit one far more than the other, but in my opinion it's usually the synergy between the two that leads to greatness (e.g. Brady & Belichick, Payton & Brees, etc).

 

[PackAttack12]

I get your point but you're exaggerating when suggesting that Gurley was terrible with Fisher being the Rams head coach.

While his rookie year was impressive, Gurley didn't look very good in his sophomore year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While his rookie year was impressive, Gurley didn't look very good in his sophomore year.

While that might be correct compared to the way Gurley has performed over the past 20 games he still managed to gain more than 1,200 yards from scrimmage in 2016.

 

[CaptainCanuck]

IMO it's more of a function of McVay. Goff was floundering before he came. And they are now an offence capable of hanging 35+ on any defense, any time.

Amazing what a good head coach with a good system can bring to a team...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Amazing what a good head coach with a good system can bring to a team...

I wonder why Washington only ranked 17th in points scored from 2014-16 with the innovative McVay being the offensive coordinator calling the plays.

FYI the Packers, while holding on a terrible offensive
mind like McCarthy, scored the second most points over those three seasons.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Stick a fork in the Vikes so-called elite defense. No way you're going to convince me the sh_t they got on the field is elite. Elite defenses don't let even good offenses get half a thousand yards in one game.

Also, MM's offense is perfectly capable of duplicating that feat with a non-limping Rodgers because Doug Pedersen figured out they had some deep ball vulnerability, and McVay simply took note. Deep ball chuck em, especially without Trey Waynes out there.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I wonder why Washington only ranked 17th in points scored from 2014-16 with the innovative McVay being the offensive coordinator calling the plays.

Trust me I do believe most fans are wrong to use one successful offensive coordinator to try to shoot down McCarthy, and it's always someone. Always someone who they gotta paint as some shiny new colossus over MM be it Pat Shurmur, Jim Bob ******, Kyle Shanahan or fill in the blank with some other joker. Usually it is someone who hasn't accomplished any more in their career than MM, or sometimes even less.

But as to McVay finding more success here than he did in Washington, well even though he is a friend of the Grudens and had a good relationship with Cousins, neither head coach nor QB are very smart. I definitely think Jay Gruden has handcuffed the Redskins for much of his tenure and despite being 2-1 right now, I think Snyder will fire him if he fails to make the playoffs given how bad Dallas and New York are.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Trust me I do believe most fans are wrong to use one successful offensive coordinator to try to shoot down McCarthy, and it's always someone. Always someone who they gotta paint as some shiny new colossus over MM be it Pat Shurmur, Jim Bob ******, Kyle Shanahan or fill in the blank with some other joker. Usually it is someone who hasn't accomplished any more in their career than MM, or sometimes even less.

But as to McVay finding more success here than he did in Washington, well even though he is a friend of the Grudens and had a good relationship with Cousins, neither head coach nor QB are very smart. I definitely think Jay Gruden has handcuffed the Redskins for much of his tenure and despite being 2-1 right now, I think Snyder will fire him if he fails to make the playoffs given how bad Dallas and New York are.

There's no doubt McVay finds himself in a way better situation in Los Angeles than he had in Washington. That's my point though, he's successful because he has a significantly more talented roster and not due to the fact that he has any more innovative than McCarthy.

BTW most of the coaches named as either a replacement or upgrade over McCarthy haven't even had close to as much success as MM.

 

[gbgary]

they're not fake but their d isn't what they've been touted to be.

 

[CaptainCanuck]

they're not fake but their d isn't what they've been touted to be.

Vikings defense is overrated simple as that

 

[rmontro]

The Rams kind of remind me of the 2011 Packers. Not the way they're put together, and certainly not the defense, but the way their offense appears to be unstoppable.

Frigging Giants.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Rams kind of remind me of the 2011 Packers. Not the way they're put together, and certainly not the defense, but the way their offense appears to be unstoppable.

Interestingly the Rams are currently on pace to score 560 points this season, which would tie the 2011 Packers for third most in NFL history.

 

[rmontro]

Interestingly the Rams are currently on pace to score 560 points this season, which would tie the 2011 Packers for third most in NFL history.

Nice observation. Should have quoted my "Frigging Giants" though - I hate to mention the 2011 Packers without it.

 

[OldSchool101]

As said already here to some degree, each team will metamorphosize during the course of 16 games. We’re not even 1/4 way in yet so I don’t get too excited about calling a legit playoff contender until I see 4-6 more games and we’re still a mile from calling a SB contender. It was just last week near everyone was writing the Bills off.

You’ll see some of these early Offenses powerhouses go through struggles, particularly once the injuries rack up. That’s when teams will have their hand forced to use rookies and former practice squad players. Then we’ll see who has the “real” depth.
Some of the so called better Defenses will lose traction as were seeing with MN. I couldn’t help but wonder what that MN Vikings crowd was thinking when they were down 0-24 before they could take a bathroom break. I almost felt bad for them but then I remembered how they’ve had a resurgence of arrogance the last couple years. They need to chill

Having an established running game and a HOF veteran QB counts huge come playoffs. GB hasn’t even gotten warmed up yet our QB got punished first half of game 1 and has barely had a full week of practice since. He’s been throwing off 1 leg.. literally.
Our #1 RB hasn’t played a half game.

We’ve been mostly limping around At 1-1-1.. just wait a few weeks once we start getting our mojo.. Aaron doesn’t settle for mediocrity and he will demand performance and his confidence makes players around him rise up. There’s no price tag for that.

I believe we will see a rookie or 1st year player take a leap this year and start making some splash plays and I’m curious to see who’s about to break out. I’m going to guess it’s Montravious or someone else on D

 

[rmontro]

We’ve been mostly limping around At 1-1-1.. just wait a few weeks once we start getting our mojo.. Aaron doesn’t settle for mediocrity and he will demand performance and his confidence makes players around him rise up.

That's true, but if he's going to be hampered by injury the whole season, that is going to have different expectations than if he was healthy. Like you say though, it's early yet, and time will tell.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

We're now up a game on Minny, and thus far I'd say the Bears are a bigger threat.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Jared Goff just shredded that Vikings defense.

Rams are contenders for sure

And Cousins shredded the Rams defense. Way too early to write the queens off, or to under estimate them. The question is who can beat the Rams? I can’t think of any team, for now. But it’s a looooong season and they have peaked early. Always better to peak in November and December.

 

[Mondio]

There's always a team that's a shoe in for the Super Bowl by the end of September that is lucky to play in and win a playoff game at all. There was a crap ton of offense Thursday night by both teams. The Rams couldn't miss a play. They barely missed a block, they didn't drop passes, and the QB put every ball about as perfect as you could. it was cool to see, but it's the end of September.