The Jordan Love Thread

[Magooch]

I suppose.
As long as your house remains unaffected you don’t need homeowners insurance. As long as your health remains intact you don’t need any form of health insurance. The list goes on. That just doesn’t sound like a wise strategy and we don’t have to get very far around the league to see how risky that is. It’s not even Week 2 and we’ve seen QB get hurt.

That said I don’t recommend dropping your homeowners and healthcare because you haven’t had a recent total loss or medical emergency.

That's the whole point though: if Love wasn't the "insurance policy," someone else would be. It seems like you're making it out to be "Insured vs Uninsured" when in reality it'd be more like "Insured by State Farm vs Insured by Allstate".

Unless the argument is that Love would be a better form of "insurance" than whichever non-Love backup QB we would employ, I don't really think this holds up... And I don't know that we have really seen enough out of Love one way or another to suggest that he would be a considerably better option than the average NFL backup QB.

 

[tynimiller]

Love was drafted as they didn't see Aaron still being here this long either by choice or regression.

They were wrong.

End of discussion as far as why Love was picked. I truly will never understand all the debate over it.

Now discussion of what Love may become or is I get...too early to know the one (become), easy to declare anything for the other (is).

 

[OldSchool101]

has there ever been a QB taken in the first round who played so few meaningful snaps in his first 2, 3, 4 years and went on to be an above-average starting QB in the NFL?

We need not go far

#12

 

[Magooch]

#12 fits that. Am I reading the question wrong idk.

No you're not reading it wrong but that's kind of my point. Are there many (any) others?
Expecting Love to follow the same trajectory seems to me like expecting to lightning to strike the same unicorn twice.

In other words: I would consider Rodgers to be the exception, not the rule. Maybe Love will end up the same way, but I think that we can all acknowledge that it's far more probable he doesn't.

 

[OldSchool101]

No you're not reading it wrong but that's kind of my point. Are there many (any) others?
Expecting Love to follow the same trajectory seems to me like expecting to lightning to strike the same unicorn twice.

In other words: I would consider Rodgers to be the exception, not the rule. Maybe Love will end up the same way, but I think that we can all acknowledge that it's far more probable he doesn't.

Are you asking if we think Love will match Aaron Rodgers? Cmon that’s an argument no QB can win. Should we never use a 1st round selection drafting a QB because we’re afraid he won’t match Aaron Rodgers??

I guess teams can no longer use a 6th round draft pick on a QB because they won’t match Tom Brady’s Super Bowl rings?

That logic just doesn’t work with me

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So again, not saying this is what you've said, but obviously it can't be both "Love was a good pick because he should've gone early in the first and we lucked into him being available later" and "Love was taken late in the first so we need to temper our expectations" simultaneously.

Actually, it can be both IMO. I think circumstances have changed since Love was drafted. Those circumstances mainly being Aaron Rodgers. So I don't agree with you that you can't have both of those turn out to be true or false. All those that have been and continue to say Love was a bust and a bad pick could be right, but we won't know that until he is no longer a Packer. Even some might call him a great pick, if he finds success elsewhere. I wouldn't agree with that or at least the notion that he was a great pick for the Packers.

Had Rodgers retired or been traded before the 2021 season, we would be closer to having our answers to; "Was Love a bargain pick and like most QB's, did he just need experience in the NFL to prove that?".

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So, then why draft a guy to sit on the bench? If it's going to take a year or two of game action for the QB to properly develop, why waste the draft pick just sitting on the bench for 4 years? There is no way to justify spending a first round pick on a guy who is going to take SIX YEARS to eventually develop into a decent QB.

Considering the Packers rarely pick in the top 10 of the draft, when and how do you propose that such a QB should be obtained? Should the Packers do what the Bears did to acquire Turdbiscuit? It's been said over and over, but simply put, Gute was trying to repeat what Ted did with Rodgers, get a bargain QB for the future.

 

[Magooch]

Are you asking if we think Love will match Aaron Rodgers? Cmon that’s an argument no QB can win. Should we never use a 1st round selection drafting a QB because we’re afraid he won’t match Aaron Rodgers??

I guess teams can no longer use a 6th round draft pick on a QB because they won’t match Tom Brady’s Super Bowl rings?

That logic just doesn’t work with me

No, that's not at all what I'm asking and I'm not particular sure how you could've stretched what I wrote to mean "We should never spend a 1st rounder on a QB because they won't become Aaron Rodgers." That's fine if that logic "doesn't work for you," but that's not my logic either, so no disagreement there.

You already read what I asked in my prior post: How many quarterbacks have been drafted in the first round, played virtually no meaningful games for 2, 3, 4 years, and then went on to become even an above-average NFL quarterback, much less an Aaron Rodgers-level one?

Beyond Rodgers himself, how many examples can you think of? It's not at all about him matching the level of Rodgers; again as I already said I'm simply asking how many *above-average* NFL QBs have came out of similar circumstances. If Rodgers is the only prominent answer we can think of, well, that's that.

 

[OldSchool101]

No, that's not at all what I'm asking and I'm not particular sure how you could've stretched what I wrote to mean "We should never spend a 1st rounder on a QB because they won't become Aaron Rodgers." That's fine if that logic "doesn't work for you," but that's not my logic either, so no disagreement there.

You already read what I asked in my prior post: How many quarterbacks have been drafted in the first round, played virtually no meaningful games for 2, 3, 4 years, and then went on to become even an above-average NFL quarterback, much less an Aaron Rodgers-level one?

Beyond Rodgers himself, how many examples can you think of? It's not at all about him matching the level of Rodgers; again as I already said I'm simply asking how many *above-average* NFL QBs have came out of similar circumstances. If Rodgers is the only prominent answer we can think of, well, that's that.

To understand this selection, you really need to go back 2 years and look at what the scouts saw. They saw a high potential college Junior that was raw but needed time. Each player is picked for different reasons. I won’t pretend to answer why GB took a QB because I don’t have inside details. However what I do know is they had absolutely, positively ZERO expectation of Jordan starting before about YEAR 3 range, because he was more project with potential than production with experience. To be fair Jordan is beginning his 2nd Live season and gets a + for (rookie) playbook and paper study in 2020. He lost a year of college -1. He at best gets 1/2 season credit for Covid 2020. + season. He’s the equivalent of a early Sophomore with + playbook. One could argue he gets negated a season as a College Junior.

QB that are high college production and are 4 year starters in an FBS program with ascending results don’t last until #26 or beyond. Late Day 1 is an area you might get a great upside QB that needs to be groomed. That’s Jordan love to a T. Anyone who was “hard grading” him last year in his first official season was way way premature or just didn’t do their homework etc..

Pipelining is the word that comes to mind.

 

[Magooch]

To understand this selection, you really need to go back 2 years and look at what the scouts saw. They saw a high potential college Junior that was raw but needed time. Each player is picked for different reasons. I won’t pretend to answer why GB took a QB because I don’t have inside details. However what I do know is they had absolutely, positively ZERO expectation of Jordan starting before about YEAR 3 range, because he was more project with potential than production with experience.

QB that are high college production and are 4 year starters in an FBS program with ascending results don’t last until #26 or beyond. Late Day 1 is an area you might get a great upside QB that needs to be groomed. That’s Jordan love.

Anyone expecting to get a high grade, top level, 4 year+, high ceiling college QB at pick #26 Is clearly off their granny rocker. Lol

Yes, I understand all of that...what I'm asking for is precedent. How many quarterbacks taken in similar situations have gone on to become reliable and/or above-average NFL quarterbacks?
I get the rationale, I'm just saying that I think if history is any indication odds are probably stacked against Love.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Considering the Packers rarely pick in the top 10 of the draft, when and how do you propose that such a QB should be obtained? Should the Packers do what the Bears did to acquire Turdbiscuit? It's been said over and over, but simply put, Gute was trying to repeat what Ted did with Rodgers, get a bargain QB for the future.

Are you saying only top 10 picks become good quarterbacks cause i have some news for you….

Also, Rodgers was in the running for #1 overall and he fell to the packers; at no point did anyone consider Love to even be a top 15 pick and Gute traded UP to get him. If he was trying to imitate what TT did with Rodgers then he did a weird bizarro version. Also, weirdly, some fans want to compare Favre’s retirement drama over multiple seasons with Rodgers making a few comments one off-season; the two scenarios aren’t really comparable in the slightest.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Are you saying only top 10 picks become good quarterbacks cause i have some news for you….

Also, Rodgers was in the running for #1 overall and he fell to the packers; at no point did anyone consider Love to even be a top 15 pick and Gute traded UP to get him. If he was trying to imitate what TT did with Rodgers then he did a weird bizarro version. Also, weirdly, some fans want to compare Favre’s retirement drama over multiple seasons with Rodgers making a few comments one off-season; the two scenarios aren’t really comparable in the slightest.

Actually, if you go back and read enough scouting reports, Love was highly regarded by some. Interesting that you don't see the similarities between the Favre situation, especially given that twice in the last 15 or so months, Rodgers has talked about retiring or forcing a trade.

I mean I get it, people that hated the pick when it happened, myself included, can continue to stay in their lane with blinders on and pretend that it was a pick that absolutely had no merit and Rodgers play since, is confirmation of that.

I eish all football decisions were that easy to decipher.

 

[gopkrs]

How many times has there ever been a QB taken in the first round who played so few meaningful snaps in his first 2, 3, 4 years and went on to be an above-average starting QB in the NFL?

What do you think Rodgers did?

 

[gopkrs]

No you're not reading it wrong but that's kind of my point. Are there many (any) others?
Expecting Love to follow the same trajectory seems to me like expecting to lightning to strike the same unicorn twice.

In other words: I would consider Rodgers to be the exception, not the rule. Maybe Love will end up the same way, but I think that we can all acknowledge that it's far more probable he doesn't.

Steve Young sat behind Montana awhile and even after he played earlier for other teams. And many others in days gone by. Question for you. How many young QBs have been ruined because they were put in too early in their career?

 

[longtimefan]

Love was drafted as they didn't see Aaron still being here this long either by choice or regression.

They were wrong.

End of discussion as far as why Love was picked. I truly will never understand all the debate over it.

Now discussion of what Love may become or is I get...too early to know the one (become), easy to declare anything for the other (is).

Exactly.. I've mentioned it numerous times. They thought Aaron wanted and knew of his management issues, and was slipping.

Maybe they panicked or just was preparing.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My take. Never pass up an opportunity to add what you believe is a potential impact player. They didn't pass up the opportunity to draft Rodgers and they didn't pass on Love. They did however pass on TJ Watt. Perhaps there was disagreement in the building as to Watt's future value. I always have believed that he was the closest thing to a safe lock at pick 29 that I've ever seen.

The Packers passed on impact players by selecting Love with Higgins and Pittman coming to mind at a position of need. At this point there's no way of knowing if Love ever develops into one.

So, then why draft a guy to sit on the bench? If it's going to take a year or two of game action for the QB to properly develop, why waste the draft pick just sitting on the bench for 4 years? There is no way to justify spending a first round pick on a guy who is going to take SIX YEARS to eventually develop into a decent QB.

Especially as Love most likely won't even be with the Packers six years after being drafted.

I suppose.
As long as your house remains unaffected you don’t need homeowners insurance. As long as your health remains intact you don’t need any form of health insurance. As long as you don’t get a flat tire you can send your daughter in a cross country trip and you don’t need a spare tire. The list goes on. That doesn’t necessarily make it a wise decision to go without, just because we say it.
Nothing personal you can run a team however you like and you might luck out. Good Luck Cooper! NOT!!

Do you honestly believe the Packers wouldn't have been able to find another backup quarterback if they didn't draft Love???

In other words, we're looking at probably 3 years minimum - perhaps more - in which Love will have only started games due to injury/resting starters.

You need to consider that rookie contracts only run for four years and Love will probably be gone after the 2023 season if Rodgers is still around.

All those that have been and continue to say Love was a bust and a bad pick could be right, but we won't know that until he is no longer a Packer.

Actually that's all you should need to know to realize Love was a terrible pick.

It's been said over and over, but simply put, Gute was trying to repeat what Ted did with Rodgers, get a bargain QB for the future.

Gutekunst forced the issue on trying to be like TT with Rodgers.

Interesting that you don't see the similarities between the Favre situation, especially given that twice in the last 15 or so months, Rodgers has talked about retiring or forcing a trade.

Rodgers never talked about retiring or forcing a trade before the Packers drafted Love. I don't know why a lot of you completely ignore that fact.

 

[PikeBadger]

The Packers passed on impact players by selecting Love with Higgins and Pittman coming to mind at a position of need. At this point there's no way of knowing if Love ever develops into one.



Especially as Love most likely won't even be with the Packers six years after being drafted.



Do you honestly believe the Packers wouldn't have been able to find another backup quarterback if they didn't draft Love???



You need to consider that rookie contracts only run for four years and Love will probably be gone after the 2023 season if Rodgers is still around.



Actually that's all you should need to know to realize Love was a terrible pick.



Gutekunst forced the issue on trying to be like TT with Rodgers.



Rodgers never talked about retiring or forcing a trade before the Packers drafted Love. I don't know why a lot of you completely ignore that fact.

Do you know where the Packers had Higgins and Pittman slotted on their draftboard?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Do you know where the Packers had Higgins and Pittman slotted on their draftboard?

Obviously not highly enough.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yes, I understand all of that...what I'm asking for is precedent. How many quarterbacks taken in similar situations have gone on to become reliable and/or above-average NFL quarterbacks?
I get the rationale, I'm just saying that I think if history is any indication odds are probably stacked against Love.

Ok. But Odds are stacked against any QB if you really look at it. Fir every Justin Herbert or Pat Mahommes you’ve got 5 other Deshone Kizer who don’t see a long career.
The hit rate does get better by draft position, but even quite a few top 20 QB selections spiral out of the league.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you know where the Packers had Higgins and Pittman slotted on their draftboard?

No idea, but obviously the Packers had Love rated above both of them. Two years into their careers that doesn't seem to have been smart though.

Ok. But Odds are stacked against any QB if you really look at it. Fir every Justin Herbert or Pat Mahommes you’ve got 5 other Deshone Kizer who don’t see a long career.
The hit rate does get better by draft position, but even quite a few top 20 QB selections spiral out of the league.

Exactly, that's another reason why it was a mistake using a first rounder on a quarterback while having a HOFer starting.

 

[OldSchool101]

Exactly, that's another reason why it was a mistake using a first rounder on a quarterback while having a HOFer starting.

It’s a good point actually. Hmmm..
That Fing Glutenkoonst!

I was thinking on the Anniversary of the Love selection, on the exact minute we would go poop on Brian’s doorstep and use lighter fluid and ring the doorbell?! Are you in or not?

 

[PikeBadger]

No idea, but obviously the Packers had Love rated above both of them. Two years into their careers that doesn't seem to have been smart though.



Exactly, that's another reason why it was a mistake using a first rounder on a quarterback while having a HOFer starting.

My guess is they had Love rated in the top 10.
You mean it was a mistake for Thompson to draft Rodgers in the 1st round while Favre was still starting???

 

[longtimefan]

the biggest circle jerk ever

He sucks!! Gute just try to be like Ted

Give him time, Covid hindered

Aaron wanted out , no he didn't

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You mean it was a mistake for Thompson to draft Rodgers in the 1st round while Favre was still starting???

The situation was completely different when TT selected Rodgers.

Favre had hinted at retirement for years, Rodgers was widely considered a potential #1 overall pick and the Packers found themselves in a rebuilding mode.

 

[PikeBadger]

Most teams aren't in rebuilding mode after back to back 10-6 seasons and playing in the playoffs. So perhaps you can tell me why there were so many Packers fans that were complaining about them choosing a QB in the 1st round when they already had a future HOF QB playing.
Love was considered by at least some to have the best arm and leg abilities of any QB in the 20 draft. Are you saying now (and at in April 2020) that this is untrue?
Can you explain to me why many Packer fans felt that in April 2020, they had already seen Rodgers best playing days?
I think there were many similarities in the circumstances surrounding the current QB situation when Rodgers and Love were drafted. Gutekunst spoke to Rodgers in February 2020 about the possibility of drafting a QB so clearly the scouts and Gutekunst had already targeted at least one guy they liked.