The Free Agency Thread

[hallzi43]

Best "athlete" doesn't mean that much. LVE has the potential to be very good but hasn't shown the skill that would deserve the 14th overall pick. Vea, as I said, is very good but he's not SO good that it would be worth adding another DT to the dline. I don't care how Pettine uses the dline, there's just no effective system that would need Daniels, Clark, Wilkerson, AND Vea. I'm all for depth on the dline but the Packers have plenty of 300+ pound interior depth. What the Packers need are edge rushers; Matthews is on the decline on Perry is always hurt.

Explain to me how LVE hasn't shown the skill to be picked #14? The problem with our defense is we don't actually have a lot of pure athletic freaks.

There is certainly a scenario where Vea has effective value despite what we already have at Dline and edge rushers aren't necessarily a need round 1. Lot of questions on both Davenport and Landry. The value might actually be better in round 2.

 

[hallzi43]

Fitzpatrick will be good and might, might, be worth moving up a spot or two. James though, he has the potential to be one of the best defenders in the NFL. His versatility is off the charts and he's basically custom-built to defend passing games like the Eagles, Patriots, and Saints that make heavy use of the short-throw game and incorporate running backs into the passing game. Put James on the defense and you're base defense is also a nickel defense because he's big enough to stop the run, skilled enough to rush the QB (check out his tape, he has ACTUAL pass rush moves, not just hitting open gaps in the line), and he can cover tight ends, slot receivers, and running backs.

Moving up is too costly for a safety. If you are moving up it is going to be for Ward who would be an immediate starter at corner. James has his warts too despite his freakish physical ability. Most believe Fitzpatrick is the better man coverage guy.

 

[hallzi43]

Is no one very high on Josh Jackson? Has good size for a corner. Might be just me but I'd like some size out there other than King.

I don't really like Jackson when talking comparisons with Oliver/Hughes/Alexander for us. I tend to feel most like him so much because of their familiarity of Big 10 football.

 

[gbgary]

Moving up is too costly for a safety. If you are moving up it is going to be for Ward who would be an immediate starter at corner. James has his warts too despite his freakish physical ability. Most believe Fitzpatrick is the better man coverage guy.

moving up for derwin james is "to costly" but drafting vander esch (a 2nd rounder) at 14 is ok?

 

[hallzi43]

moving up for derwin james is "to costly" but drafting vander esch (a 2nd rounder) at 14 is ok?

LVE is not a second rounder. He is the 3rd rated LB prospect by most. The other 2 are mostly looked at as top 10 picks. Moving up would cost a day 2 pick on top of our #14. Some have us passing on James even if he falls to us at #14 for a corner or a pass rusher.

 

[gbgary]

LVE is not a second rounder. He is the 3rd rated LB prospect by most. The other 2 are mostly looked at as top 10 picks. Moving up would cost a day 2 pick on top of our #14. Some have us passing on James even if he falls to us at #14 for a corner or a pass rusher.

most mocks i see don't mention him at all, and the ones that do have him very late 1st. the Packers can do better than that.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Explain to me how LVE hasn't shown the skill to be picked #14? The problem with our defense is we don't actually have a lot of pure athletic freaks.

There is certainly a scenario where Vea has effective value despite what we already have at Dline and edge rushers aren't necessarily a need round 1. Lot of questions on both Davenport and Landry. The value might actually be better in round 2.

He's only started a grand total of 14 real football games in his life. He's not good enough in coverage to demand a pick that high. Now, his inexperience is certainly a factor in that but there's no guarantee that he'll markedly improve in that area; just having the physical speed is far from a guarantee that a guy can cover. If he doesn't improve in that area then you've got a terrific run-stopping linebacker but that's not worth the 14th pick. He just hasn't shown enough to be counted on as a centerpiece in a defense as bad as the Packers.

Value later in the draft is almost always better than early because, despite everything, there are no guarantees in the draft. Landry though should easily be the Packers pick at 14 if he's there (barring a guy like James, Ward, or Smith falling). He was a GREAT pass rusher in 2016 and was hurt in 2017. Prior to getting hurt this year he was really good too. So I don't see any reason that he isn't the guy everyone saw in 2016.

 

[hallzi43]

most mocks i see don't mention him at all, and the ones that do have him very late 1st. the Packers can do better than that.

Show a single mock that doesn't have him mentioned at all. Especially one since the injury issue had been cleared.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Stiff in the hips, and a little on the slow side. One year starter.
Not as high on him as some.

See, I look at the "one year starter" thing as a pro for this guy. He got moved to corner in 2015. So he's played the position for about two years. He's not the fastest guy but he's big and has terrific ball skills. As good as he is after only playing the position for two years, this is a guy that could become REALLY good with some actual coaching in the NFL (and it just so happens the Packers have a really good corner coach).

 

[hallzi43]

He's only started a grand total of 14 real football games in his life. He's not good enough in coverage to demand a pick that high. Now, his inexperience is certainly a factor in that but there's no guarantee that he'll markedly improve in that area; just having the physical speed is far from a guarantee that a guy can cover. If he doesn't improve in that area then you've got a terrific run-stopping linebacker but that's not worth the 14th pick. He just hasn't shown enough to be counted on as a centerpiece in a defense as bad as the Packers.

Value later in the draft is almost always better than early because, despite everything, there are no guarantees in the draft. Landry though should easily be the Packers pick at 14 if he's there (barring a guy like James, Ward, or Smith falling). He was a GREAT pass rusher in 2016 and was hurt in 2017. Prior to getting hurt this year he was really good too. So I don't see any reason that he isn't the guy everyone saw in 2016.

The reason LVE is so valuable (Same with Edmunds as well) is because they are great chess pieces who can move inside and out because of their freakish athleticism. Those are the types of guys that will be valuable to Pettines defense.

There is no guarantee on anyone in the draft. That is why it is an open discussion. They all have warts.

 

[hallzi43]

See, I look at the "one year starter" thing as a pro for this guy. He got moved to corner in 2015. So he's played the position for about two years. He's not the fastest guy but he's big and has terrific ball skills. As good as he is after only playing the position for two years, this is a guy that could become REALLY good with some actual coaching in the NFL (and it just so happens the Packers have a really good corner coach).

Terrific ball skills in a zone defense. That is the questionable mark against him in that he might not translate into a press corner in man coverage.

 

[Half Empty]

Note the thread title

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Note the thread title

boy the mods are going to have a hell of a fun time cleaning up this mess!!

Someone better placate them with libations.

 

[hallzi43]

FA is on pause. Draft in 2 days. *shrug*

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

This is what happens when we give you some leeway on threads

 

[Jerellh528]

Is no one very high on Josh Jackson? Has good size for a corner. Might be just me but I'd like some size out there other than King.

The speed issue for him is overrated I think. Seems to have good speed watching him play. At the combine he put up a 40 time of 4.56 which isn’t even that slow but was clocked better during his pro day, some reportedly even clocked him in the 4.4 range. Other workouts like his 3 cone drill(10th), 20 yard shuttle(5th), vertical jump(5th), bench press(3rd) and broad jump(11th) were all towards the top of the heap for cbs in this draft and collectively along with tape suggest he’s a great athlete.

My problem watching him on tape was his reluctance in run support, didn’t seem to want to fight towards the ball carrier for those tackles. Some say he isn’t a press corner, which is true he mostly did excel in zone. But with his strength, length, athleticism and ball skills I think he could do well in press. He might have more big play potential than any cb in this draft with proper coaching, he’s a natural ball hawk.

I like Jackson as a dB only behind fitz, Ward, and James.

 

[gbgary]

Show a single mock that doesn't have him mentioned at all. Especially one since the injury issue had been cleared.

googled mock drafts, clicked on the first one in the list, and it's updated today...http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-davis-mock-draft-30-jets-pick-baker-mayfield

 

[RRyder]

LVE is not a second rounder. He is the 3rd rated LB prospect by most. The other 2 are mostly looked at as top 10 picks. Moving up would cost a day 2 pick on top of our #14. Some have us passing on James even if he falls to us at #14 for a corner or a pass rusher.

I'm normally not "that guy" when it comes to who to draft but if we pass on James I'm going to be so salty

most mocks i see don't mention him at all, and the ones that do have him very late 1st. the Packers can do better than that.

googled mock drafts, clicked on the first one in the list, and it's updated today...http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-davis-mock-draft-30-jets-pick-baker-mayfield

That's literally ONE guy on NFL.com. He also says hes a top 10 talent. Most every other one of their mocks has him going top ten, mostly at #7, excluding one other that has him going 16.

Saying "most mocks" is disingenuous at best 80% of mocks have him going top 10 and outside of those all but a very few outliers have him going anywhere in the 10-20 range. Not once have I seen him not mentioned in the first as you asserted earlier

(Fyi I'm assuming your talking about James here)

 

[hallzi43]

googled mock drafts, clicked on the first one in the list, and it's updated today...http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-davis-mock-draft-30-jets-pick-baker-mayfield

Fair enough. I see they like Rashaad Evans better.

 

[hallzi43]

That's literally ONE guy on NFL.com. He also says hes a top 10 talent. Most every other one of their mocks has him going top ten, mostly at #7, excluding one other that has him going 16.

Saying "most mocks" is disingenuous at best 80% of mocks have him going top 10 and outside of those all but a very few outliers have him going anywhere in the 10-20 range. Not once have I seen him not mentioned in the first as you asserted earlier

(Fyi I'm assuming your talking about James here)

Talking Vander Esch. But I still see Vander Esch with a higher ceiling than Evans myself. Which some of them are rating Evans higher in their mocks.

 

[gbgary]

I'm normally not "that guy" when it comes to who to draft but if we pass on James I'm going to be so salty





That's literally ONE guy on NFL.com. He also says hes a top 10 talent. Most every other one of their mocks has him going top ten, mostly at #7, excluding one other that has him going 16.

Saying "most mocks" is disingenuous at best 80% of mocks have him going top 10 and outside of those all but a very few outliers have him going anywhere in the 10-20 range. Not once have I seen him not mentioned in the first as you asserted earlier

(Fyi I'm assuming your talking about James here)

i clicked on many more after the first and about half mentioned him and of the ones that did he was in the last half of the draft...but whatever. they can do better than him in the first round. now if they want to trade back into the first and get him late fine.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If the Patriots miss out in Rosen they'd be a prime partner to look at.

It's possible Rosen gets selected with the first overall pick making it highly unlikely the Patriots end up eith him.

However, I think there's a good chance that the Packers end up trading down, which in general is a good idea but i think those three guys are worth trading up for.

The Packers already have 12 selections in this year's draft. There's no need to trade down at #14, just selected the player presenting the best value.

Trade UP for Landry?

If Landry ends up being the only top tier player left on the board before the Packers are on the clock I would be fine with the team trading up for him.

LVE would absolutely be worth the #14 pick. He would be the best athlete in our defense on day 1 BY FAR.

Unfortunately being an elite athlete doesn't automatically translate to on-field success in the NFL. Therefore I agree with several other posters that LVE isn't worthy of being selected at #14.

Is no one very high on Josh Jackson? Has good size for a corner. Might be just me but I'd like some size out there other than King.

I'm definitely high on Jackson. In my opinion concerns about him not being able to be successful in press coverage as well as his speed are exaggerated.

Some have us passing on James even if he falls to us at #14 for a corner or a pass rusher.

It would be absolutely insane to pass on Derwin James if he drops to #14.

As good as he is after only playing the position for two years, this is a guy that could become REALLY good with some actual coaching in the NFL (and it just so happens the Packers have a really good corner coach).

Did the Packers hire someone else than Whitt to coach the cornerbacks???

 

[Half Empty]

FA is on pause. Draft in 2 days. *shrug*

Understand that, but I thought maybe someone could start or add to a draft thread instead. I know nothing about college players, but I am aware of some free agents, so I'd prefer not to waste my time here.

 

[gbgary]

who should move up in the draft...
https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1533511

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

who should move up in the draft...
https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1533511

Given that we have 12 picks, if that is what it takes to assure us of one of the top defensive guys, I am all over that move. The article mentioned doing it to grab Barkley. First, that would probably require us to get up as high as #2 and way too costly and second, as much as I like Barkley, I wouldn't value him enough (as a Packer) to spend the draft capital to acquire him. Moving up just 2-4 spots should get us a great player.