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Good fits for the Packers

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Not sure if this belongs here?
    We never are players in free agency, but especially not for the marquee, big ticket-day one guys.
    But here are a few guys I think we could afford who won't be the big ticket lottery winners. And they'd all fit in well with us. Help us.




    OT Jason Smith, Jets, age 27:
    The #2 overall pick in 2009 Draft (Matthews & Raji later). Considered a bust. But: Smith earned a +4.6 @PFF run block grade and allowed just 1 sack this season in 265 snaps. #Jets
    Also a +2.0 pass block and +6.4 overall

    OLB Paul Kruger, Ravens, age 27:
    White guy, blue collar, hard working, would blend in well with the Packers clubhouse. Kruger notched nine sacks during the regular season and then three more against the Colts in the playoffs. He also was solid in coverage.

    OLB Connor Barwin, Texans, age 26: 6'4", 256
    White guy, hard working, blue collar. Barwin is coming off a very disappointing 2012 campaign. After registering 11.5 sacks in 2011, he managed just three this past season. He's talented, so there's a good chance this was just a fluky year. Also in the 2009 Draft. He was arguably one of the most versatile athletes in the draft. He played both offensive (tight end) and defensive for the Bearcats, recording 12 sacks and 17 tackles for losses as a senior. He wowed scouts at the Combine, managing a 40 1/2-inch vertical leap and running the 40 in 4.59 seconds.

    OLB Victor Butler, Cowboys, age 26;
    Butler has shown some solid pass-rushing ability in his brief action behind DeMarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer. No relation to LeRoy.

    S Louis Delmas, Lions, age 26:
    You know I hate this guy because he goes after ACL's (as well as heads, necks, chests), and he's been injury prone the past 2 years, like half our defense. But he's the enforcer that our defense could use back there. Very talented.

    TE Jared Cook, Titans, age 26: 6'5" 246.
    Jared Cook has tons of potential, but has never developed into the star many predicted. He hauled in 49 receptions for 759 yards in 2011, but regressed this past season. That could be blamed on poor quarterbacking though, so some team should take a chance on him. Yeah, his QB's were PATHETIC.
    He ran a 4.49 at his combine. He's what, IMO, Finley USED to be before he lost his speed.
    "The Titans were enamored enough with Cook, whom they considered a first-day pick, that they shipped a second-rounder in 2010 to New England to jump in and take him. Cook has plenty of upside, leading the Titans to believe they can create mismatches with him. - by The Sports Xchange"
    Coming off a torn rotator cuff.

    DOES BRAD JONES OWN THIS > WEBSITE? http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013ILB.php
     
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  2. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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  3. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    If Jones is that good, then we must be in good shape.
     
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  4. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Thank God Desmond Bishop will be back. Jones is just awful.
     
  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Cook is another Finley. I'd rather go in a diff route
     
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  6. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    What does this actually mean in football terms? Hard working / blue collar I understand to mean he achieves more than "the book" says he oughta but this has me confused.
     
  7. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    That's hilarious... What's weird though is that we forget that Jones was a starter as a rookie, and since then hasn't been seen besides special teams. (Until 2012)
     
  8. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    Don't forget Tavares Gooden at linebacker.
     
  9. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Good Lord. :rolleyes:

    [sarcasm]FrankRizzo, please let us know if any of the "white guys" have mixed racial blood. And what about the racial background of the other players? Any white ancestors a few generations back? That must be critical information, right? Remember to go several generations back - you must be a charter member of ancestry.com, right?[/sarcasm]

    Don't be confused, Pappa San. This isn't the first time FrankRizzo has posted this kind of nonsense. If it looks like a racist duck, and posts like one and quacks like one…
     
  10. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    You need to find the sense of humor post for goodness sake, my gosh.
    Down here in Dallas, they actually talk, joke about things such as race... not so uptight paranoid like Minnesota & Wisconsin.
    There are 3 sports radio channels here, ESPNDallas, The Ticket, and the Fan. They say the word "brother" sometimes! You'd have a cow it seems.

    Randy Galloway, who's been a journalist for decades here for the Ft Worth Star-Telegram, and is the drive-home lead guy on 103.3 ESPN Radio Galloway & Company (GAC), he says "honky" and "thug" at times. OMG right?

    Now to you, I say the word "WHITE" and you call me racist? That's pathetic. Paranoid.
    Ask Jordy some questions about color.... does it make him racist to answer them? Ask Welker.
    Ask Peyton Hillis.
    I guess they are racist to actually admit they've been harassed by many players for being white.

    You also must be the type who is offended when people compare guys like Danny Amendola to Welker or Eric Decker to Jordy.

    I admire your football knowledge TJV, but don't preach to me or anyone about race, racial-anything ever.
    Not only because you're 100% way off, but also because that is not what this thread is about.
     
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  11. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    He seemed like such a natural OLB coming out of Colorado.
    He was so fast off the edge.
    I'll always remember that draft pick and THIS video>
     
  12. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Dallas you say. That perspective is not uncommon in the former Confederacy.

    I used to work with guys from South Carolina. They were the same way. My purported boss would pitch the line that all of them Bubba's (himself included) probably had some black blood anyway, so don't take it so seriously. In the next breadth you'd hear the "N" word and a defense of the Confederate flag flying over the Capitol.

    Bigotry is a habit of thought, and your thoughts are reinforced by habits of speech.

    If anyone feels the need to purge themselves of bigoted opinions, the best place to start is to stop using bigoted expressions, you guinea dago son of a goomba. :) "I'm Italian too, so it's OK for me to say that."

    See how this works?

    Talking about a guy's race in the context of a racial issue or event makes sense. If that were not the case, we couldn't talk about race or bigotry at all. But characterizing somebody, right out of the box, as white vs. persons of color, apropos of nothing at all, indicates that race as a defining characteristic is important to you.

    So, no, you did not avoid a lecture.
     
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  13. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    This really doesn't contribute to the description of what the players above can do on the football field.

    With that said, the observation of a man's race doesn't necessarily warrant some of the lecturing above. While it's curious that Frank chose to point out that some of the players above were Caucasian, he wasn't exactly slinging around the N-bomb.

    I suppose the assumptions that might be made about an athlete on the basis of his or her race make some people uncomfortable. But the mere observation of a man's race is not bigotry and I believe some of the squeamishness this triggers says a lot about the listener's own predilections.

    That's terrible to hear and I hope you criticised your coworkers at the time.

    I have lived in the Carolinas for a number of years. While racism certainly persists in the South (especially amongst poor whites), it's hardly absent in the North, where nearly every urban center is a textbook example of what sociologists call "white flight." Milwaukee is one of the worst cities in the country in this regard. Blacks comprise a rather small fraction of the Wisconsin population but, more alarmingly, there is virtually no black middle class in the state.

    Instead of the holier-than-thou proselytizing against the South, perhaps you might consider directing your energies toward ameliorating the economic and social conditions of African-Americans in northern cities.

    ...Perhaps instead of worrying about how your white, indo-european subgroup is being labeled, as though it compares to the plight of blacks in this country:

     
  14. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    I agree. I don't see how noting whether a perspective FA acquisition is a "white guy" is contextually relevant at all. I'm not going to sit here and cry racism because you talked about the color of someone's skin, but in the manner in wich it was brought up it is irrelevant and could have gone better without being typed.
     
  15. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    FrankRizzo, if that was the first time you displayed racist tendencies I'd believe it was a joke. Unfortunately it's not. As jaybadger pointed out, a players race 'doesn't contribute to the description of what the players can do on the football field'.
    I disagree. What is racism if it isn’t making judgments about a person based upon their race? IMO members of all races are capable of being racists (that seems obvious but I’ve heard the opinion only those in the majority can be racists). IMO racism isn’t limited to whites using the N word, it is when anyone of any race makes judgments about a person based upon their race, both negatively and affirmatively. Of course the mere mention of race isn’t racist if its relevant. “Be on the lookout for a white/black/Hispanic man 6’3”…” isn’t racist. Discussing the problems in the black community in Milwaukee isn’t in itself, racist. But IMO noting the irrelevant fact that a certain player is a “white guy” is.

    The charge of racism is thrown too often IMO but that doesn’t mean it is never applicable.
     
  16. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Mississippi just voted to pass the 13th Amendment. There seems to have been a clerical mistake. By way of apology it has been reported to have been passed in 1995, but not properly recorded.

    Actually, I asked my South Carolinian associates, all college educated and with successful careers, about that flag over the SC Capitol..."what gives"? The answer is that it is a "symbol of our heritage". I guess so. Unless the legislature is composed of "mostly poor whites" flying of that flag begs certain questions. Admittedly, "my guys" are probably not the best anecdotal evidence. There were certain matters involving the SEC and others involving certain violations of the Mann Act...oh, wait...wasn't the Mann Act an anti-white slavery law? Maybe they were representative?

    By the way, my people are meso-German from northern Italy, so I don't have a dog in the hunt of those aforementioned "indo-European" slurs. We might have an Italian name, but we're really not like "those people". Besides, do you think his name is really Frank Rizzo? More like a fan of the old mayor of Philly or the Jerky Boys ("proud a' ya"). So it was all just a big joke. :) See how that works?

    Well, we're way beyond football. Once again, I'll leave the last word for others.
     
  17. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Ooooh this is starting to smack of politics - taboo in a football forum hahahaha.

    When I first came to Texas many years ago, I heard people talk about "white speed" - no, not amphetamines. It usually applied to a high school scatback who could outrun everybody except the black kids. Jordy Nelson always kinda reminded me of that, also that old WR from some La Crosse or some other state college that the Pack used to have.

    Anyway, there's always a tradeoff of whatever versus whatever - I say whatever to keep racial discussion from creeping in hahaha - but all things considered, Clay Matthews notwithstanding, I think whiteness is Not a positive thing when applied to LB prospects.
     
  18. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Did I read that correctly? "Brad Jones deserves a big contract." Did I miss something during the year?
     
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  19. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    No, I think we watched the same Brad Jones.;)
     
  20. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Jason Smith intrigues me a little. The guy was the #2 overall pick a four years ago. The Rams knew he was going to be a little bit of a project, but he had the size, speed and intangibles to be a great left tackle. I think that if he is willing to be paid what he deserves, he is definitely worth a look in camp. A guy doesn't get drafted #2 for no reason. Maybe he just needs a little coaching and the right situation.
     
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  21. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    S Louis Delmas, Lions, age 26:
    You know I hate this guy because he goes after ACL's (as well as heads, necks, chests), and he's been injury prone the past 2 years, like half our defense. But he's the enforcer that our defense could use back there. Very talented.

    I'd be interested in bringing this guy in for a look at the right price and length of contract. Maybe a 2 or 3 year contract. No more though.
     
  22. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I'd love Jason Smith to be brought in. And Delmas.

    Exactly.

    But TJV & HRE would have you believe that you shouldn't even mention the word black or white?
    Again, tell that to Peyton Hillis. Tell it to Jordy Nelson.
    They've admitted plenty to reporters. But there's a lot, LOT more to it than what they say to reporters.
    One of my best friends is friends with some Vikings and with Tony Scheffler (I own a pair of customized Reebok's thanks to Scheffler), and Scheffler has told him about some DB's who while playing while trying to blow his blocks up "I hate white guys"..... now this is true, but to TJV it's racist of Scheffler and me to mention what was said, but not by the black DB who says it and feels it. Interesting.

    All I said was the word "white" and the guys who are all uptight like TJV -probably aren't even friends with any black dudes as I am- go all off? Really?

    IMO, it's the people who are so uptight like TJV, who are the real dangers.
    TJV would have nothing to do with discussing matters like these. In my opinion, it's the paranoid ones who are racist, not the ones who are fine discussing these things. There ARE stereotypes like it or not. And some are warranted. Some not. Some are. Ignoring it doesn't help anything or anybody, except the ones who like to keep their head in the sand and also like to throw stones at glass houses.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_1...jordy-nelson-says-his-race-helps-him-succeed/

    Peyton Hillis, the ONLY white RB who has rushed for 1,000 yards in a season since most of our forum posters here were born. Is that a fluke to TJV?
    You think NFL GM's think it's a fluke?

    Peyton Hillis Claims He Was Taunted For Being A White Running Back
    IMO, the folks like them, Dan Patrick, me, who are comfortable talking about these things (we haven't even touched on the 100M in track, or the NBA), are the ones who are not racist at all... while the ones who are uptight, paranoid, insult others, are the ones who have something to hide.
     
  23. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    In my mind, I tend to distinguish between "bigotry," which suggests animosity toward someone on the basis of race (terrible), and "racism," which suggests different treatment on the basis of race but not necessarily out of animosity (sometimes unintentional). In this sense, I agree that racism is widespread. The genuine ignorance/animosity behind it seems to vary according to the circumstances...

    To a degree, racism is unavoidable when you consider our evolution as a social species (interesting link here). One hopes that thoughtful people learn to recognize these genetic tendencies and take steps to guard against the creep of such racism in their day-to-day lives but I'm not certain whether this part of our genetic wiring can be completely dismantled. In a perfect world we would treat everyone the same regardless of race, but I fear a truly colorblind society is something of a fairytale. The "Us & Them" mentality is very persistent and is wired into our nature (not just in the context of race, see HardRightEdge's rants about the South).

    You're totally right about context really shaping how racial observations are construed.

    I only mention the black community in Milwaukee to rebut the implication that the North is some sort of bastion of racial progress and equality compared to the South. HardRightEdge's comments reflect a certain vitriol for the South, which- like most forms of hatred- derive from ignorance and lack of understanding. The South still has plenty of progress to make. But I count South Carolina's healthier black middle class population as an improvement over that of many states in the upper Midwest (including WI). From a personal standpoint, I enjoy having black neighbors. This sort of integration between blacks and whites is extremely rare in the part of Wisconsin I grew up in. Such scathing criticism of the South often overlooks the problems at home.

    Frank's decision to mention the race of some of the players on his list had me speculating on the thinking behind that but I didn't sense animosity underneath it. I have seen some of the links he's provided above and, right or wrong, I believe the popular presumption is that black people are better athletes.

    It's worth observing that sometimes people from different backgrounds use widely held social stereotypes in order to facilitate positive interaction. Racist? -Yep; Hateful? -Not always. (The movie End of Watch, illustrated this sort of interaction between the main characters nicely.)

    I realize this is a sensitive topic that strays dangerously close to the political, so I'll shut up. I just really enjoyed everyone's comments (even HardRightEdge's).
     
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  24. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Frank, I’ll be blunt: You have posted racist things in the past and at the time it appeared to me that you were proud to be a racist.
    Never posted any such thing. In fact I posted there’s nothing wrong with discussing race if it’s relevant.
    More made up bull sh!t. I specifically posted racism “is when anyone of any race makes judgments about a person based upon their race”. And you weren't quoting someone else - you included race in your "analysis".
    You know nothing about my friends, upbringing or background.
    Again as I posted, there is nothing wrong with discussing race or racial matters. What is wrong is engaging in racism as you have on more than one occasion on this site. It has nothing to do with being paranoid or up tight. It has to do with calling out ignorant racists. The “real dangers” are violent racists, then IMO are those who spread racist bull sh!t, followed by those too timid to call out racism when they see it. Just because some cry "racism" where it doesn't exist usually for their own economic gain doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it doesn't mean we shouldn't point it out when we see it manifested.

    Answer a simple question: Why mention those players were “white guys”? Why did you think that was important as part of an analysis of their football ability?
     
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  25. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    There really are two separate mindsets often referred to as racism. Jaybadger came close above but didn't exactly get it right. There is hatred based solely on race, and there is merely citing real differences according to race. The former is morally indefensible. The latter, however, is perception of reality that may or may not be correct. I would suggest that the societal denial of differences according to race is also a perception of reality that may or may not be correct. You can be on whichever side of that fence you prefer. There is, however, no inherent evil or moral wrongness in any of those positions. There is, however, correctness of fact - one way or the other. Either there are qualitative differences based on race or there are not. Why does that perception of reality of the racial differences persist? I'm not gonna take a position on that issue because this is a sports forum. I will say this, though. I see a lot more hatred expressed by the self-righteous "anti-racist" people than by the so-called racists, including in several of the posts above.

    And hell no, I'm not gonna apologize like the guy above for treading the fine line of politics or whatever in a football forum, as it is very relevant to football. If you possess the first mindset referred to as racism, the hate, it ruins the whole concept of rooting for your team - your racially mixed team. The second mindset referred to as racism, the citing of racial differences, however, is clearly one factor in selection and comparison of players.
     
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