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Biggest Pet Peeves regarding the Green Bay Packers

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Ace, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. AKCheese

    AKCheese Cheesehead

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    #1 by a long shot is the way the franchise mishandled Favre's exit. The franchise lost a lot of luster over that and they will never get it back.

    #2 along the same lines are fans who think Favre committed some kind of sin because he changed his mind and went on to compete against the packers, he was a football player long before he was a packer.

    #3 fans who bash a player because he gets injured .... That is just absurd

    Other than the Favre debacle there's not much to not love about the franchise, time for them to step up and reconcile that situation, just like I put more responsibility on MANAGEMENT for misMANAGING the issue, I put more responsibility on them to correct it.
     
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  2. OCBP

    OCBP Cheesehead

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    Get ready for some hate. TT does little wrong/Farve is satan.
     
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  3. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    If you're making a point I'm missing it. Being a fan is being pro-Packers. I've never been to a game (and I still go to a couple each year) and heard anybody whining about the coaches or the players.
    You might not think fans are any different today than 30 years ago but you'd be wrong. There is a big difference. I didn't just talk Packers with my friends, I talked Packers with co-workers, people at restaurants, family and on and on. The one thing I don't remember is this idea that you are entitled to Lombardi trophies or even victories.
    If I'm hearing you correctly... the idea that you know Chris Clemons is available as a free agent makes you more capable of questioning the front office?
    Here's a question for you Sunshine: What do you know that 32 other teams don't know? I mean, there are 32 teams that are not signing him. But yea, you have the internetz so you know more than we did 30 years ago.
     
  4. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    Here's where you're all wet behind the ears:
    Who's a know-it-all? What you might want to consider is that there will always be people with more life experience than some in any grouping. You don't seem to understand that like football.... experience counts. It makes you quicker to react and more informed. You haven't gained enough experience to know how valuable this is.
    You likely didn't live in those days before the internet and therefore you consider yourself more informed. Go back and look at some of that newspaper material. It was far and away more factual than the "instant news" that is pounded on the internet. Reporters had credibility and what you read was more fact than opinion.
    And by the way, I was at the front of making ASCII a universal language and command and control functions in word processing more universal. It was about binary and hexidecimal values and assigning interface pins but somebody had to be the first. That stuff didn't come out of an eggshell. Old guys like me created it.
    So yea, there's all that "maybe the old guy should learn to use the computer" going on too right?
    The idea that you think there's less violence than 20 years ago screams to your ignorance of the truth. You live in the internet and you believe what you are told. The most surprising thing I've learned about the internet is that younger people tend to believe what they read regardless of source.
     
  5. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I have no idea why you came off so confrontational, as I wasn't even referring to you as a know-it-all, just simply saying that every generation of fans has those who think they know more than the rest.

    I find your first paragraph to be rather offensive. I'm in my 30's and did 2 OIF tours to Iraq. I also have a degree in Accounting, if you're looking for that kind of "life experience". I'm not bragging about either. I'm simply saying, please don't assume you know someone and their story.

    I have no idea where you were going with your rant after that. I never questioned your experience or education. Congratulations on your accomplishments with ASCII. I never questioned the value of old news. In fact, I said the sensationalizing of news today because of the internet is part of the reason that people tend to believe in myths.

    By the way, you're dead wrong about your last paragraph, which is ironic since it screamed to my "ignorance of the truth". I do my research before I go claiming things, Don. I don't go read a Yahoo article and then try to pass it off as fact.

    Here's a good article from CNN last year about the drop in violence the last 20 years. Go ahead and tell me that CNN isn't credible. I'm fairly certain they were covering the news "back in your day". In fact, I remember watching their live coverage of the Challenger disaster in 1986 when I was very, very young. It's not an opinion article. It's not an editorial. It's based on actual research.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/08/us/study-gun-homicide/

    "Researchers have studied the decline in firearm crime and violent crime for many years, and though there are theories to explain the decline, there is no consensus among those who study the issue as to why it happened," the researchers say in a summary."

    I'm glad you can take a 200 word (or so) post from me and make various assumptions from it, including that I
    "didn't live in those days before the internet", "haven't gained enough experience" (wow), and am "wet behind the ears". I'm glad you think you can make a big blanket statement about "young people" and have them all pegged. Congratulations on that, sir.
     
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  6. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    First, in relation to your question about my point; the availability of information and the ease with which many people can interact with one another means that people are exposed to a far more diverse array of opinions than they were in the 70's or 80's. So it may seem like fans criticize more today than they did 30+ years ago, it's really only because there's more information to form an opinion on and 30+ years ago you really only got exposure to this type of conversation from people you hung out with, who most likely shared your opinions (and if not then you just had good-natured conversations about it).

    Your sarcasm on the internet is completely misplaced. Yeah, it's a fact that people today have access to FAR MORE information than people did 30 years ago. So in that sense, people today DO know more. That's a far cry from making someone smarter though. Trying to claim that people today don't have access to more information today than 30 years ago is like saying that the Pony Express delivered mail just as well as the USPS....

    As for your point on Clemons; this is a fan board. If the requirement for discussing anything football related is that the poster knows more than 32 NFL teams, this forum would be pretty empty. I'm getting the sense that you would just prefer that everyone assume the front office is doing everything right? The front office screws up. It's a fact. The Packers were a disaster at safety last year. Maybe if the Packers had signed Mike Mitchell last year to a one-year, $1m contract (same contract he signed with the Panthers) the season could have gone better. Instead, the front office trusted in young players making strides and it didn't work out. It's completely reasonable to wonder if signing an established, solid safety like Clemons might be a smart move on the part of the Packers. It would stabilize one of the weakest positions on the team, wouldn't cost a ton and would allow the Packers more freedom in the upcoming draft.
     
  7. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    I'm not going to hate because I'm learning to respect peoples opinions but I disagree with #1 & #2 completely.

    #1- I'm not sure who the franchise lost alot of luster with. Fans? The NFL? You personally? The situation was mishandled on both sides I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. Favre had an agenda to become a Viking, which was made very evident by the 6 hour yelling session he had with MM and the rest of management when all they wanted was an answer about playing for the Packers. I dont think MM was wrong wanting Brett to commit to playing for the Packers after this all started going down which he never did, and had he he would have been a Packer. TT is painted as the bad guy here which is completely false IMO. Do Brett and TT like each other? Probably not, but I think Brett has a genuine hatred for MM.

    I don't hate Brett, in fact I'm a fan who has been able to look past everything that happened and am ready to let him back in. What this has taught me is to never latch on to one particular player like I did with Brett.

    #2- I have a problem with the way he held this franchise hostage that entire summer. He is allowed to change his mind I won't argue that, he had earned that right, but what ended up transpiring was completely and totally unfair to Aaron Rodgers. Regardless of how it was handled by management, Favre thought he was above the team and that when he said jump they'd say how high. I believe MM was ready to move on from Favre from the day he got here. He knew what he had in Rodgers but at the same time MM gave him a chance to commit to being a Packer and he never did.

    TT has taken the brunt of all of this when MM is the one who should have been taking the bullets. Management is not completely innocent nor are they completely at fault. This whole situation is bittersweet. Favre, one of the greatest Packers of all time, didn't finish his career as a Packer which is a shame no matter who is at fault. But his ultimate goal was to get to Minnesota and win a SB with the Vikings which he did not do. In turn, the Packers ended up with Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews because of this and ultimately won a SB. Would we have won another with Favre? We'll never know. But we did with what came from this which is now all I care about. The rest of the stuff is ancient history and it's time to move on.
     
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  8. PackerFlatLander

    PackerFlatLander Cheesehead

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    Ace - I agree with just about everything you said there. I don't hate Favre either, BUT ... I absolutely hate what he did. It was a complete crock of BS, all-around. Also, I have a difficult time with the notion that "both sides handled it wrong". Um ... the Packers did NOTHING wrong at all. Nothing. The dude retires all on his own doing and his own will. The team simply moves on and names Rodgers the starter. Mini-camps, OTA's, and training camp are nice and peaceful. Then this little runt shows up uninvited and starts a circus for no reason? Hell no, get out. I was absolutely livid.

    As for Ted and the Packers handling it wrong after Favre showed up? Oh bleeping well. He's the one who instigated and started the whole damn thing to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, that alone absolves Ted and the team of any wrongdoing. It was forced on them by a self-absorbed drama king, nothing more to it than that. Regardless, ultimate justice was served twice - first when Favre did what he did best - threw to Tracy Porter and then one year later when Ted, Mike and Aaron held a Lombardi and shoved it where Favre's sun don't shine. Hilarious. Couldn't make it up if I tried, lol.
     
  9. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Thats the problem, the dunk was grandfathered in along with the Lambeau Leap when they made the new rule against "props" being used in celebration, if they are outlawing this it may only be a matter of time before the leap is outlawed. :mad:
     
  10. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    I think it was handled wrong a couple of ways from the Packers standpoint. 1. As I said I think MM was ready to move on from Brett as soon as he stepped foot in the door. I have to assume Brett was sensing this as well which is what I think started this whole thing. I don't think Brett and MM ever had or ever will have a very good relationship. It also would not shock me if Brett at some point went to TT and said something to the effect of "it's him or me". Sherman was the WORST thing that ever happened to Brett Favre. He had free reign to do whatever he wanted under Sherman which he didn't under Holmgren or MM. 2. Sending Murphy down to Bretts house to offer him money to go away when this guy had had little to no interaction with Brett to that point was absolutely ridiculous. This never should have happened.

    Look, Favre was the catalyst of all of this but I just think the Packers could have done a few things differently. Favre was/is a legend here and I don't think MM ever realized that. He wanted Rodgers in from the get go. This doesn't mean MM and management should have bent over backwards for him but I don't think he was getting the respect he felt he deserved.
     
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  11. PackerFlatLander

    PackerFlatLander Cheesehead

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    I totally agree about Sherman - that guy was like the deer in the headlights with Favre and he let Favre get away with everything. I've said this from day one ... Holmgren leaving, was the worst thing that happened to Favre and that wasn't Favre's fault at all. No question about that. As for the sending Murphy down to Favre's house with the "retirement package" - yes, that was ridiculous, BUT ... again - Favre instigated all of it. Period. All he had to do, was say that he wanted a trade, didn't like Ted or whatever. Instead, the path he chose to take, was what was ridiculous. He owes Ted an apology for biting the hand that fed him(trying to be the GM, telling him to sign Randy Moss, etc.), he owes McCarthy an apology for disrupting what was a quiet training camp and he owes Rodgers an apology for generally treating him like crap for no coherent reason. I mean, hey - Favre was 35 when Rodgers was drafted. You know ... teams DO sorta need to draft for the future sometimes, no?

    No way around it - this issue deeply divided a lot of us and most of us will never budge on which side we took.
     
  12. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    The thing that does still bother me about this whole thing is that I think (I'm speculating completely) that a majority of the hatred for TT from the fanbase stems from the summer of '08. If thats true, those are the fans I have an issue with. Love Brett or Hate Brett, TT did not push him out of town. That to me is a fan who is completely putting one guy over the team, and not a true fan in my book.
     
  13. PackerFlatLander

    PackerFlatLander Cheesehead

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    Amen, brother. Like many of us, I was a Packer fan for a decade before Favre ever got there (I was born in 1972) and I'll still be one long after he's been long gone.
     
  14. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    How exactly should they have handled it differently? Bent over and said, "C'mon back Brett. You're going on the trading block, Aaron."

    I'm very grateful they didn't do this.

    If you want to say they should have been a little more upfront about them being done with Favre from the start and not feigned a QB competition in training camp eventually, ok, I can get on board with that.

    But beyond that, no. There was nothing they could have done that would have pleased everybody. They had to make a business decision. They made the right one.
     
  15. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    My only hope is that the NFL realizes that unlike the dunk, the Leap actually involves the fans in a positive way.
     
  16. AKCheese

    AKCheese Cheesehead

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    Well you guys misremember a little history. As I recall Favre let it be known that he wanted to play football long before training camp started, Green Bay went through all sorts of hoops to keep him away and the commissioner finally intervened. Green Bay could have traded him at that point, but they tried to pay him to stay retired......stupid classless move. They also tried to accuse Minnesota of tampering, the league investigated and found that charge baseless......also a stupid classless move. I may be inaccurate here but I don't think Rodgers won a Super Bowl the next year..... Missed the playoffs, lost to the Cardinals the following year, won the Super Bowl the following year as a wild card team, flushed out in the playoffs each year since. Do I think Favre did everything the way I wish he would have? No, Farvre is an athlete who mismanaged his departure, he's a jock, a guy who throws a football..... Public relations and management are not his profession. Packer MANAGEMENT did a horrible job MANAGING the situation. That is their job. Aaron Rodgers played pretty poorly his first year and decently his second, the league was not beating a path to snag this guy away IF Green Bay had gone with Favre. Green Bay could have let Favre compete for his job ( he would have won it) and Rodgers would have waited, nobody was going to sign him away for the Packers if Green Bay wanted to keep him. If TT and MM were so sure Rodgers was their guy, they could have traded Favre for a lot more value than they got. Green Bay just looked stupid because they didn't want Favre, but they were clearly afraid to play against him. If they had manned up and traded him for value up front, I may not have agreed with it, but it would have been handled in an above board honorable manner. Green Bay caught a lot of breaks the year they won the Super Bowl with Rodgers, the same can be said for a lot of Super Bowl champions, but if they did not have that feather in their cap the stench of this debacle would be lingering a lot stronger.
     
  17. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    No no sir you are misremembering. Favre said he wanted to come back 2 weeks after his retirement. Management was all set to go down to his home and talk about bringing him back and then he called and said he had changed his mind. How did management mismmanage that one?

    I agree trying to pay him off was stupid and never should have happened.

    You are incredibly wrong about how AR played in his 1st yr as a starter. He actually played very well might want to go back and check your stats. The record says 6-10 but that is not at all indicitive as to how AR played.

    You have no idea as to what the interest may have been in AR from other teams so to assume he wouldnt have left is ridiculous. I believe, no factual evidence, there is no chance he would have stayed and where would we be today?

    Let me ask you this... why did the Packers create a timeline of events related to his retirement?
     
  18. PackerFlatLander

    PackerFlatLander Cheesehead

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    Hmmm, well - I'll also add this ... it all kinda started for me when he threw six picks against the Rams in the playoffs. I knew right then and there, that his "bad sandlot" crap in the playoffs, was going to wipe out his "good sandlot" stuff that won us a lot of regular season games. Then you get to the Philly game, when he tossed a bag of kittens in the air with the season on the line. Then you get to the 2007 NFC title game (which I was at, unfortunately) and with that, I was done with him. I couldn't wait for him to leave. Goodbye and good riddance. Sorry, but my mind was made up on him before he even "retired". Haven't missed one thing about him since.
     
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  19. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    The rule against dunks was made because players have bent the goal post and delayed the game. The Lambeau Leap is in no danger of going away as it had never caused a delay.
     
  20. AKCheese

    AKCheese Cheesehead

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    Green Bay could have put a tender on AR that would have kept any team from signing a total unknown who had had 2 season ending injuries during his short stints actually playing and had done virtually nothing ( because to be fair he had not had a chance). He was not an unrestricted free agent.

    Did Favre flip then flop then flip again? Probably did, we really have no way of knowing everything that actually happened . Packer management should have been the adult in the room, they were not being paid for athletic prowess, they were being paid to do a good job managing the team, handling the situation. The commissioner had to step in and mediate, if that doesn't indicate managerial failure I don't know what does. The Packers did everything but blow a crater in the airport to keep Favre from reporting to camp. It was an embarrassment. I think it could have been handled a lot lot better. If other people feel it was handled well they are certainly entitled to their opinion.
     
  21. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Rodgers was still under contract for two more years when all this happened in 2008.
     
  22. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    So again, what should the Packers have done differently?

    Should they have just said "Come on back Brett, you're our starter as long as you want to be". ?

    Do you think Rodgers would have been content to continue to wait in limbo his entire career under Favre was ready to go? Or more likely, would have requested a trade at that point?
     
  23. PackerFlatLander

    PackerFlatLander Cheesehead

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    I disagree. The dude retired. Done, you're out. Had he just stayed on his tractor in Mississippi and stayed the hell out of everyone else's lives, management wouldn't have NEEDED to do a damn thing, other than manage the 2008 Packers as the 2008 Packers were getting ready for the 2008 season. Simple as that! Instead, the dude decided to voluntarily jump on a plane and showed up to start a circus. He was his own embarrassment and that's all there was to it.
     
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  24. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    Ok this is clearly turning into a beating my head against a wall session so I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree.... and I completely disagree.
     
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  25. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's one thing to have an opinion (however whacked it is) but another thing entirely to ignore facts and act like there's more to this story! What in God's name do you mean "We really have no way of knowing everything that actually happened"?! We know exactly what happened.

    There is nothing coming out of BrentINT's cake hole that even disputes anything that the Packers put out officially! It's just a giant misconception from people like you that there's this big "he said she said" thing going on here. THERE'S NOT! When BreNtint finally realized there was nothing he had on the Packers that made them look like the bad guy here, he stopped talking about it and wanted it to go away! Look at the Greta interview for God's sake. Even then, he wouldn't go on record as saying anyone lied! He knew he couldn't because nobody did! He's a complete POS. Period.
     
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