2022 week 18 pre-game thread: Rematch with the Lions

[Pokerbrat2000]

There is certainly a factor of discipline that falls on the teams playing the games

Nice brush by of what I would say IS the most important influence on penalties.

I admit just skimming through this no name from Indianapolis's theory, but stopped when he did not remove non-judgmental penalties in his data. Off-sides, illegal forward pass, too many men on field, etc. are not judgement calls, they are black and white rules violations.

Again, while some might want to invoke conspiracy theories of certain teams being favored by refs, they are conveniently/intentionally leaving out a very critical and unmeasurable variable, that of a teams discipline, skill level and coaching.

 

[weeds]

Nice brush by of what I would say IS the most important influence on penalties.

I admit just skimming through this no name from Indianapolis's theory, but stopped when he did not remove non-judgmental penalties in his data. Off-sides, illegal forward pass, too many men on field, etc. are not judgement calls, they are black and white rules violations.

Again, while some might want to invoke conspiracy theories of certain teams being favored by refs, they are conveniently/intentionally leaving out a very critical and unmeasurable variable, that of a teams discipline, skill level and coaching.

Or... what the hell... let 'em whine....

 

[OldSchool101]

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[OldSchool101]

Either Lazard is a total of 3 feet tall or the Lions Refs backed him up 30”

This should’ve been 1st n Goal from the 6” yard line. Then very next play Dillon breaks just inside the 1 yard line. That’s a Packer TD if the spot was proper and the Refs weren’t Detroit Aboriginals. How do you get that spot wrong?? It’s a booth review with every possible angle showing inside the 1ft line?! Where is this Detroit?!

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I didn’t even get through the 1st Quarter of the very last game and the Lions Refs are already Cheeta’s..

A Cop arresting a man in Detroit..

(Detroit Police Revolver being emptied at man) BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!.. BANG. BANG!! …
…. …. Pause…. (Man lifeless on ground bleeding)

HALT!!

 

[milani]

Either Lazard is a total of 3 feet tall or the Lions Refs backed him up 30”

This should’ve been 1st n Goal from the 6” yard line. Then very next play Dillon breaks just inside the 1 yard line. That’s a Packer TD if the spot was proper and the Refs weren’t Detroit Aboriginals. How do you get that spot wrong?? It’s a booth review with every possible angle showing inside the 1ft line?! Where is this Detroit?!

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I didn’t even get through the 1st Quarter of the very last game and the Lions Refs are already Cheeta’s..

A Cop arresting a man in Detroit..

(Detroit Police Revolver being emptied at man) BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!.. BANG. BANG!! …
…. …. Pause…. (Man lifeless on ground bleeding)

HALT!!

This game was almost harder to swallow than the Jets, Giants, and Washington put together. We can only go forward now.

 

[Team Ronny]

2022 stats don't necessarily agree with your assessment. Not saying that the Lions are going to win, just that your assertion is inaccurate.





Hes had 1 good season. Not counting this one. He was just a throw in in the Stafford trade..if he was any good they would have gotten something in return. He will **** the bed!!



 

[OldSchool101]

This game was almost harder to swallow than the Jets, Giants, and Washington put together. We can only go forward now.

Absolutely. Many outside GB are perpetuating this feeling that the Packers can’t “keep this pace up” much longer.
If we go back and look at our first meeting in Detroit, we really didn’t play well on Offense at all. We were 1st and inches and couldn’t get a TD to save our lives. We got in our own way.
Our Offense led in:

Yards per Rush
1st downs Rushing
1st downs passing
Total Plays
4th down %
Yards per play
Passing yards
Time of possession

We held Goff to:
a season low 137 passing
a season low Comp% 53.85
a season low Yards/attempt
3rd lowest Passer rating

The question really should be

“Can the Lions Defense replicate that D performance through 4 quarters?? This time relying on another 8-81 penalty yardage and 3 INT and 0-4 in the Redzone? All the while doing it in front of a hostile crowd at 27 degrees?
Along with their ST trying to mitigate the leagues best Returner rather than Amari Rodgers?”

 

[coulomb]

On espn both the lion's and packer's reporters picked the lions to win.. Not that it means anything, just found it interesting. fyi they both picked the vikings to crush the packers last week too.

 

[Heyjoe4]

There was a study done a year or so ago that looked at all penalties since 2010 (https://time2play.com/blog/referee-bias-in-the-nfl/). There is certainly a factor of discipline that falls on the teams playing the games, but an interesting read nonetheless.

Pertinent values (with other teams for comparison)

Most penalized:
Raiders - 1st
Lions - 5th
Packers - 29th
Patriots - 32nd

They also created a formula to generate an overall bias for each NFL team:
Colts - 1st
Packers - 4th
Lions - 23rd
Seahawks - 32nd

This isn't intended to place blame anywhere, or discount what a team has done, just found it to be a unique analysis.

Thanks for putting this together. As you note, it doesn't really address bias or blame. It's still interesting.

I think bias exists, but it's at the player, not the team level. This is still all subjective and just my opinion. I notice it most in the NBA, where the established stars seem to get the benefit of the doubt.

At the team level, I have a feeling that bad calls affect all teams somewhat equally, ideally at a rate that doesn't change the outcome of a game (it does happen, ask the Saints). We don't expect players to be perfect. We don't expect people to be perfect. So officials make mistakes. I'm pretty sure that's monitored and an official only advances, and stays, in the NFL with a good track record.

 

[milani]

Absolutely. Many outside GB are perpetuating this feeling that the Packers can’t “keep this pace up” much longer.
If we go back and look at our first meeting in Detroit, we really didn’t play well on Offense at all. We were 1st and inches and couldn’t get a TD to save our lives. We got in our own way.
Our Offense led in:

Yards per Rush
1st downs Rushing
1st downs passing
Total Plays
4th down %
Yards per play
Passing yards
Time of possession

We held Goff to:
a season low 137 passing
a season low Comp% 53.85
a season low Yards/attempt
3rd lowest Passer rating

The question really should be

“Can the Lions Defense replicate that D performance through 4 quarters?? This time relying on another 8-81 penalty yardage and 3 INT and 0-4 in the Redzone? All the while doing it in front of a hostile crowd at 27 degrees?
Along with their ST trying to mitigate the leagues best Returner rather than Amari Rodgers?”

We just have to slow their offense down. Although the Vikings played one of their worst of the season we did an excellent job against a very high powered group. Detroit is playing with heart and they have been coached better than they have historically. I believe the Vikings have more experience than the Lions and their close game wins attest to that. At 1-6 the Lions were snake bitten. But both of us found a way to get back to 8-8.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hes had 1 good season. Not counting this one. He was just a throw in in the Stafford trade..if he was any good they would have gotten something in return. He will **** the bed!!

Goff has played significantly better this season, hopefully the Packers will have success forcing him into turnovers though.

 

[weeds]

"So, this team is going to be built on, we're going to kick you in the teeth, right? And when you punch us back, we're going to smile at you," Campbell told reporters. "And when you knock us down we're going to get up and, on the way up, we're going to bite a kneecap off. All right?"

Look, this isn't the same-old, same-old Lions. We all know this. As I recall from the November game, this team was relentless - to the point of relentless after the whistle. Once again, I sincerely doubt that Rodgers is going to throw two interceptions in the end zone and another deep in Lion territory again - he looked absolutely brain dead that day. The Lions defensive scheme had a ton to do with that...and, his broken thumb some say in that as well. I don't want to take a thing away from the Lions ... they showed up and played and coached. The Packers didn't on ANY level and lost even though they dominated the stats sheet.

Campbell is on a 2 game win streak (both in Detroit) against MLF. Granted, week 17 of 2021, the Packers parked Rodgers at halftime and the starting O-line as well as most of the defense (we had home field) and Love proceeded to toss two interceptions and all that stuff - as I recall, Detroit had pretty much stuffed the first units in the opening half.

Yeah ... this ain't your Daddy's Lions. Any and every divisional game ends up being a bloodbath and this one will no exception. There will plenty of sh*t talk and activity after the whistle ... and, it's going to be one of those whomever has the ball last deals. ...and if the Lions win, which they could because like it or not, we are BOTH "average" teams, I'll be pulling for the Lions until they inevitably get pummeled by the #2 seed (same as the Packers' fate). I truly believe that the difference maker here is going to be the coaching staffs, particularly on the defensive side of the ball - if Barry can pull one more magic rabbit out of his a**, the Pack get to extend the '22-'23 season another week.

Go Pack!

 

[Mondio]

I think a lot of people are riding high after the Vikings. Yes we dominated on defense, and we did play better in general. better coverages etc. But we see this time and time again and saw it with our own team this year week after week, they were missing almost their entire starting offensive line and were pretty far down the depth chart at center. 3rd, 4th? It's easy to look good against scrubs. It happens to team after team, week after week, year after year.

Ours included. It's not a coincidence we're looking better when Jenkins and BakhT are back and Royce Newman isn't on the field and Meyers is at center and Yosh isn't hurt or playing his 3rd position in 3 weeks. I know the obvious answer is Rodgers is a selfish, egotistical whatever whatever people want to say and missed OTA's, but the reality of it probably has 10,000 times more to do with what's in front of the QB and that goes for every team.

The Lions have a much better Oline than we faced against the Vikings. Our defense better come to play, it's not going to be as easy as it was last week.

 

[MichiganSportsTalk]

Thanks for putting this together. As you note, it doesn't really address bias or blame. It's still interesting.

I think bias exists, but it's at the player, not the team level. This is still all subjective and just my opinion. I notice it most in the NBA, where the established stars seem to get the benefit of the doubt.

At the team level, I have a feeling that bad calls affect all teams somewhat equally, ideally at a rate that doesn't change the outcome of a game (it does happen, ask the Saints). We don't expect players to be perfect. We don't expect people to be perfect. So officials make mistakes. I'm pretty sure that's monitored and an official only advances, and stays, in the NFL with a good track record.

Indeed. If anything, what can be gleaned from that analysis is that a fan bias could be "supported" by factual data, even if an officiating bias doesn't exist.

Seems a few here got a bit defensive after I posted that, but genuinely I just found it interesting to read. No blaming or whining intended, if that's truly how some took it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

"So, this team is going to be built on, we're going to kick you in the teeth, right? And when you punch us back, we're going to smile at you," Campbell told reporters. "And when you knock us down we're going to get up and, on the way up, we're going to bite a kneecap off. All right?"

All they need is Ndamukong Suh back playing in Detroit!

 

[Guacamole]

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[longtimefan]

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I’ll see that and raise you the non face mask Arizona game

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[Guacamole]

I’ll see that and raise you the non face mask Arizona game

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there are face mask penalties not called on qb's every week.....which is unbelievable to me. But the video I posted shows how some games are called the way they are. Calling a penalty that is not here is different then not calling a penalty that is there.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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I was at this game and when I got home, watched all 3 plays several times. My least favorite broadcaster, "Booger" McFarland and his input on those 3 calls, didn't help change my mind. Booger is a complete moron.

On the fumbled "catch". It wasn't a catch, at least by how most are called. He did not maintain possession through the catch.

On the 2 "Hands to the face" calls. In both of them, the Detroit lineman had his hands up around the neck area and "face and neck" are included in the penalty. Also, Defensive holding can be called, if the defensive player commits the same offense as an offensive lineman commits. Both times the Lion DL player had a hold of the Packer lineman.

Here is the "hands to the face" rule:

It is a foul if an offensive blocker: Thrusts his hands forward above the frame of an opponent to contact him on the head, neck, or face. In football, the penalty for a player contacting an opponent's face with their hands is an illegal use of hands penalty. The resulting punishment for illegal use of hands is a 10-yard penalty if the offender is on offense and a 5-yard penalty with an automatic first down if the foul is committed by the defense.

This is also a non-reviewable call and if you look at the angle the ref who throws the flag had, he called it how he saw it.

 

[OldSchool101]

On espn both the lion's and packer's reporters picked the lions to win.. Not that it means anything, just found it interesting. fyi they both picked the vikings to crush the packers last week too.

I actually like that. If anyone has been disrespected (like the Lions claim) it has been the ability of this Packers team to be resilient. We are witnessing 1st hand the total and complete underestimation of this group in GB.
If our Offense starts popping (maybe it never does idk) it has the capability to be a top 5 area unit. We have the Offensive player talent and Coaching to put a hurting on teams but we just have not peaked yet imo.

 

[Poppa San]

I think bias exists, but it's at the player, not the team level. This is still all subjective and just my opinion. I notice it most in the NBA, where the established stars seem to get the benefit of the doubt.

"Star" MLB pitchers get a called strike off the outside of the plate consistently if they "hit" it consistently. A journeyman or up and comer is "just a bit outside" at the same position.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

"Star" MLB pitchers get a called strike off the outside of the plate consistently if they "hit" it consistently. A journeyman or up and comer is "just a bit outside" at the same position.

Yup and some players are known to commit certain penalties and the refs are very aware of it. Also, coaches are usually reminding the refs of those "facts" all the time too. Certain refs and crews are more apt to let some things slide and not others. Which is why teams scout the refs too and know who will be on the field for their game.

The final 2 minutes and overtime in hockey is usually played with swallowed whistles. Players almost have to be killed, before the refs will blow the whistle.

 

[Team Ronny]

Absolutely. Many outside GB are perpetuating this feeling that the Packers can’t “keep this pace up” much longer.































































If we go back and look at our first meeting in Detroit, we really didn’t play well on Offense at all. We were 1st and inches and couldn’t get a TD to save our lives. We got in our own way.































































Our Offense led in:































































































































Yards per Rush































































1st downs Rushing































































1st downs passing































































Total Plays































































4th down %































































Yards per play































































Passing yards































































Time of possession































































































































We held Goff to:































































a season low 137 passing































































a season low Comp% 53.85































































a season low Yards/attempt































































3rd lowest Pa sser rating































































































































The question really should be































































































































“Can the Lions S Defense replicate that D performance through 4 quarters?? This time relying on another 8-81 penalty yardage and 3 INT and 0-4 in the Redzone? All the whil e doing it in front of a hostile crowd at 27 degrees?































































Along with their ST trying to mitigate the leaguesNo best Returner rather than Amari Rodgers?”































No doubt.

Absolutely. Many outside GB are perpetuating this feeling that the Packers can’t “keep this pace up” much longer.
If we go back and look at our first meeting in Detroit, we really didn’t play well on Offense at all. We were 1st and inches and couldn’t get a TD to save our lives. We got in our own way.
Our Offense led in:

Yards per Rush
1st downs Rushing
1st downs passing
Total Plays
4th down %
Yards per play
Passing yards
Time of possession

We held Goff to:
a season low 137 passing
a season low Comp% 53.85
a season low Yards/attempt
3rd lowest Passer rating

The question really should be

“Can the Lions Defense replicate that D performance through 4 quarters?? This time relying on another 8-81 penalty yardage and 3 INT and 0-4 in the Redzone? All the while doing it in front of a hostile crowd at 27 degrees?
Along with their ST trying to mitigate the leagues best Returner rather than Amari Rodgers?”

 

[Team Ronny]

No doubt. People act like the Lions are unbeatable. They played great against us in their loud, climate controlled stadium full of their fans!! This game is at LAMBEAU FIELD..in primetime full of Packer fans in OUR WEATHER!! NOT WORRIED!! THIS PACKERS TEAM WILL BE FIRED UP!! Funny kittens safety talking ****!!

 

[OldSchool101]

No doubt. People act like the Lions are unbeatable. They played great against us in their loud, climate controlled stadium full of their fans!! This game is at LAMBEAU FIELD..in primetime full of Packer fans in OUR WEATHER!! NOT WORRIED!! THIS PACKERS TEAM WILL BE FIRED UP!! Funny kittens safety talking ****!!

It’s almost like outside of GB many are trying to find any excuse possible for motivation.

I’m calling a spade a spade.
Nobody wants GB in the playoffs for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost people hate being wrong.
IF the Packers Win? There’s going to be lots of people that have to own up to being wrong.
I was wrong. Yet I’m a Packer fan so I have an easy time admitting it. These others jokers are not lifetime Packer fans so there’s no reward balance like there is for us.

A second reason. We have been so good for so consistently long. Maybe not Tom Brady/Bill Bellichek type good. I’d argue the next best for a very long time. Must get tiring to watch our team if you’re not a Packer fan. Praise God