2017 roster cuts

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Pokerbrat2000

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Saints to our waiver wire players is as the Vikings are to our vet free agents. Scooped up as soon as available. :laugh:
At least they gave Callahan back last year (via Cleveland).

In order to make room for Hill, the Saints cut former Packer fan favorite John Kuhn.
 

GreenBaySlacker

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I just don't see how bringing in a nickel back means we have to drop down to two Dlinemen. It's bad strategy imo. Nobody will ever change my mind on that.

I also debated with some of you on the ESPN boards and yahoo boards about how we should pass first, and open up the run with the elite passing game... ohhhhh Noooooooo. I'm a ****ing idiot for thinking we should pass first.... 10 years later, it's a passing league where only 2 Dlinemen are used??? Lol I don't think so. We pass first, but we use that pass to open up the run, breaking the defense....
On point. Defensively. We are working on stopping the pass first. But leaving the run open. And still not stopping the pass! LOL. Abandoning the trenches is not how it's done.
 

mradtke66

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It's like in chess, when you have to sacrifice a bishop or rook to break the defense open.
In this case. A player like price doesn't just step up and stand there. He, and most 330 pounders alike will bull rush and pressure the qb by squeezing the pocket. Not allowing him to step up, and such, until the oline doubles him.....

A player like Price doesn't literally stand there, but he might as well. Without some quickness, a interior rusher will be reliably shutdown by a competent guard. A typical NT isn't going to get much of any push, regardless of how good he is against the run.

Also, in chess--if you sacrifice a bishop or rook without a clear plan and a purpose, you've just made a blunder. A gambit at best. Trading a rook or minor for a pawn (I assume you took a piece to more strongly suggest your opponent take your piece back) is beyond foolish. Even a low-level D-ranked player can turn a single pawn advantage into victory. But I digress...

Price isn't a pass rusher. He doesn't collapse the pocket. He's got about zero value on anything other than 1st and 10.

It's what I considered the corner stone of the 3-4. A nose who forces the double. Without that, I believe the 3-4, or 2-4 or anything in between, is simply complicating things without reaping the rewards of adding another lb to diversify blitz options.

A NT is a foundation piece to a 3-4, but again, IN THE RUN GAME.

To put it another way. Why replace a dlineman with a lb, if that lb is certain to have a olineman on him, since there isn't a dlineman in front to take the blocks...
At that point, you might as well bring a 300 pounded to go against the 300 pounder?

Again. Run game vs. Pass. There are no blocks to eat up on a passing play! Your premise is fundamentally flawed.

The OLBs in our scheme, their job is to defeat OTs one on one. Let's break down how:

1) Win around the corner. This is accomplished with speed and quick hands. If you're not fast enough to beat the OT around the corner, you're basically worthless.

2) Off of speed, you need enough strength to cross the face/counter move to an inside rush. Once the OT is worried about the outside rush, you expose him. Think like how Spriggs has been looking bad against inside moves. That's what basically every EDGE player is trying to get to happen.

3) Quick hands. The OT is looking to get his hands on you and lock out his arms. If he does so, it doesn't matter if you're Atlas. He's going to steer you out of the play. You need fast hands to knock his away from your body.

4) If you have it, the occasional bull rush works, but if the T doesn't have to worry about one of the others (1 or 2) you're not going to scare him with a bull rush.

5) Oh yeah, and just for fun, they've got outside contain if the offense happens to run.

It all basically starts with speed. There are a handful of players who are complete rushers who don't start their approach without speed or attacking the edge. JJ Watt comes to mind. However, even he is plenty fast enough to beat you around the edge. He just does more Inside to Setup The Outside, rather than the reverse.

Even Daniels, easily our best inside rusher (though I'm getting cautiously excited about Clark) Wins by first stressing the outside shoulder of the guard.

We get too caught up in scheme, and we end up abandoning the trenches to cover... the good offenses beat us because we can't go toe to toe.
A great nose tackle brings the fight to them. And that's what this defense is missing.

Ah, trenches, it makes for a good football analogy, doesn't it? The muck, the back and forth. The ridiculous manliness of it all. What an odd thing it was, The War to End All Wars. We learned our lessons and perfected trench warfare.

Problem is, the Nazis showed up with an air force and their blitzkrieg. The perfectly dug trench was rendered worthless because it was ignored. And so most of Europe fell, because they were too busy fighting the last war.

To put a blunt point on it, in case you missed it: The hulking NT is the last war, where the game was won and lost on the ground. The 3 receiver set is the air force, the hurry up offense/no-huddle the blitzkrieg. Stop fighting the last war, fight this one.
 
H

HardRightEdge

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But we still run a west coast offense, right?

:D

Sometimes. Not often enough if you ask me. Like when Rodgers completed 14 of 15, or whatever it was, in the second half of the regular season Dallas game. The first drive against Washington this preseason was a refresher.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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A player like Price doesn't literally stand there, but he might as well. Without some quickness, a interior rusher will be reliably shutdown by a competent guard. A typical NT isn't going to get much of any push, regardless of how good he is against the run.

Also, in chess--if you sacrifice a bishop or rook without a clear plan and a purpose, you've just made a blunder. A gambit at best. Trading a rook or minor for a pawn (I assume you took a piece to more strongly suggest your opponent take your piece back) is beyond foolish. Even a low-level D-ranked player can turn a single pawn advantage into victory. But I digress...

Price isn't a pass rusher. He doesn't collapse the pocket. He's got about zero value on anything other than 1st and 10.



A NT is a foundation piece to a 3-4, but again, IN THE RUN GAME.



Again. Run game vs. Pass. There are no blocks to eat up on a passing play! Your premise is fundamentally flawed.

The OLBs in our scheme, their job is to defeat OTs one on one. Let's break down how:

1) Win around the corner. This is accomplished with speed and quick hands. If you're not fast enough to beat the OT around the corner, you're basically worthless.

2) Off of speed, you need enough strength to cross the face/counter move to an inside rush. Once the OT is worried about the outside rush, you expose him. Think like how Spriggs has been looking bad against inside moves. That's what basically every EDGE player is trying to get to happen.

3) Quick hands. The OT is looking to get his hands on you and lock out his arms. If he does so, it doesn't matter if you're Atlas. He's going to steer you out of the play. You need fast hands to knock his away from your body.

4) If you have it, the occasional bull rush works, but if the T doesn't have to worry about one of the others (1 or 2) you're not going to scare him with a bull rush.

5) Oh yeah, and just for fun, they've got outside contain if the offense happens to run.

It all basically starts with speed. There are a handful of players who are complete rushers who don't start their approach without speed or attacking the edge. JJ Watt comes to mind. However, even he is plenty fast enough to beat you around the edge. He just does more Inside to Setup The Outside, rather than the reverse.

Even Daniels, easily our best inside rusher (though I'm getting cautiously excited about Clark) Wins by first stressing the outside shoulder of the guard.



Ah, trenches, it makes for a good football analogy, doesn't it? The muck, the back and forth. The ridiculous manliness of it all. What an odd thing it was, The War to End All Wars. We learned our lessons and perfected trench warfare.

Problem is, the Nazis showed up with an air force and their blitzkrieg. The perfectly dug trench was rendered worthless because it was ignored. And so most of Europe fell, because they were too busy fighting the last war.

To put a blunt point on it, in case you missed it: The hulking NT is the last war, where the game was won and lost on the ground. The 3 receiver set is the air force, the hurry up offense/no-huddle the blitzkrieg. Stop fighting the last war, fight this one.

Have you explained all this to Capers? ;)
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Every week. We get together for coffee, play a little checkers, talk football. He's my son, ya know. :D
I have a sneaky feeling this could become the #mantra of the board this year?

"Fire Capers"......"Can't, he is my son" :coffee:
 

GreenBaySlacker

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A player like Price doesn't literally stand there, but he might as well. Without some quickness, a interior rusher will be reliably shutdown by a competent guard. A typical NT isn't going to get much of any push, regardless of how good he is against the run.

Also, in chess--if you sacrifice a bishop or rook without a clear plan and a purpose, you've just made a blunder. A gambit at best. Trading a rook or minor for a pawn (I assume you took a piece to more strongly suggest your opponent take your piece back) is beyond foolish. Even a low-level D-ranked player can turn a single pawn advantage into victory. But I digress...

Price isn't a pass rusher. He doesn't collapse the pocket. He's got about zero value on anything other than 1st and 10.



A NT is a foundation piece to a 3-4, but again, IN THE RUN GAME.



Again. Run game vs. Pass. There are no blocks to eat up on a passing play! Your premise is fundamentally flawed.

The OLBs in our scheme, their job is to defeat OTs one on one. Let's break down how:

1) Win around the corner. This is accomplished with speed and quick hands. If you're not fast enough to beat the OT around the corner, you're basically worthless.

2) Off of speed, you need enough strength to cross the face/counter move to an inside rush. Once the OT is worried about the outside rush, you expose him. Think like how Spriggs has been looking bad against inside moves. That's what basically every EDGE player is trying to get to happen.

3) Quick hands. The OT is looking to get his hands on you and lock out his arms. If he does so, it doesn't matter if you're Atlas. He's going to steer you out of the play. You need fast hands to knock his away from your body.

4) If you have it, the occasional bull rush works, but if the T doesn't have to worry about one of the others (1 or 2) you're not going to scare him with a bull rush.

5) Oh yeah, and just for fun, they've got outside contain if the offense happens to run.

It all basically starts with speed. There are a handful of players who are complete rushers who don't start their approach without speed or attacking the edge. JJ Watt comes to mind. However, even he is plenty fast enough to beat you around the edge. He just does more Inside to Setup The Outside, rather than the reverse.

Even Daniels, easily our best inside rusher (though I'm getting cautiously excited about Clark) Wins by first stressing the outside shoulder of the guard.



Ah, trenches, it makes for a good football analogy, doesn't it? The muck, the back and forth. The ridiculous manliness of it all. What an odd thing it was, The War to End All Wars. We learned our lessons and perfected trench warfare.

Problem is, the Nazis showed up with an air force and their blitzkrieg. The perfectly dug trench was rendered worthless because it was ignored. And so most of Europe fell, because they were too busy fighting the last war.

To put a blunt point on it, in case you missed it: The hulking NT is the last war, where the game was won and lost on the ground. The 3 receiver set is the air force, the hurry up offense/no-huddle the blitzkrieg. Stop fighting the last war, fight this one.
Disagree.... :)

But seriously. I really liked that whole post.

But I'd like to clear up some things. The big nose is a guy who can beat a olineman one on one. Either run blocking or pass blocking. There are blocks being made. If a big nose is pushing the center, or guard back in the qbs lap like he isn't there. Then they need to double him... two blockers to slow his roll...
Secondly, I am also penciling in Daniels/ Clark at DE. If they are blocked one on one all game, then their qb will be on the run.
Now preferably they double one or the other, and Perry is facing tes and rbs instead of o tackles....

This opens the other 3 lbs and secondary to blitz and make the play.

I have a slightly different approach to the three wr sets and tes like Bennett or rbs like montster. You crush their qb. You smear him into the turf until the offense takes wrs off the field and blocking tes and fbs in their place. Make the qb throw on the run at least...
Dictate by putting their 100+ million dollar qb in danger...

Bend but don't break, my ****.

Giants did it to us twice. Niners. Seattle. Great defenses as a whole. But our game s were lost in the manly trenches.
 
OP
OP
D

Deleted member 6794

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What's so funny? We lost a guy who consistently beat the one on one to force the double team.

Price played a total of only 10 snaps in the regular season for the Packers. He wasn't even getting off the bench consistently let alone force double teams.

See that...Barclay to IR.

I didn't expect Barclay to be placed on injured reserve. Good call on that one.

But I'd like to clear up some things. The big nose is a guy who can beat a olineman one on one. Either run blocking or pass blocking. There are blocks being made. If a big nose is pushing the center, or guard back in the qbs lap like he isn't there. Then they need to double him... two blockers to slow his roll...
Secondly, I am also penciling in Daniels/ Clark at DE. If they are blocked one on one all game, then their qb will be on the run.
Now preferably they double one or the other, and Perry is facing tes and rbs instead of o tackles....

This opens the other 3 lbs and secondary to blitz and make the play.

I have a slightly different approach to the three wr sets and tes like Bennett or rbs like montster. You crush their qb. You smear him into the turf until the offense takes wrs off the field and blocking tes and fbs in their place. Make the qb throw on the run at least...
Dictate by putting their 100+ million dollar qb in danger...

For the umpteenth time, while defensive lineman being able to collapse the pocket are important in a 3-4 defense outside linebackers are the primary pass rushers in the scheme. With offenses primarily using three plus receiver sets there's no other way to cover pass catchers than to line up in nickel for the majority of snaps. Another thing you don't realize is that the Packers defense would get killed by blitzing on nearly every play.

Therefore it's smart primarily lining up in a 2-4-5 formation. The Packers need more talented players to make it work though.
 
H

HardRightEdge

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Doesn't really matter to me who anyone in this forum is beyond the screen, for all you guys know, I'm Jeff Janis :cool:

Of course, posing as someone you really aren't isn't cool nor necessary.
So, do you care...or not? ;)

If you were Jeff Janis talking up Jeff Janis I'd kinda be OK with that. but I'd wonder why you're not spending your time on the playbook and film study.

You have to admit that somebody being obsessed over Brian Price's comings and goings who is NOT personally attached is pretty d*mn weird.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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So, do you care...or not? ;)

If you were Jeff Janis talking up Jeff Janis I'd kinda be OK with that. but I'd wonder why you're not spending your time on the playbook and film study.

You have to admit that somebody being obsessed over Brian Price's comings and goings who is NOT personally attached is pretty d*mn weird.

Oh I agree with your last part for sure and I wasn't trying to make a social statement or judgement of anyone by what I said, I just meant that, to me.......I don't really care who people are or who they say they are in this forum. Over time, you get to know people and who they are in here. Basically, their true selves are revealed. From time to time we see posters fly in and fly out, making claims to be an ex player, coach, confessional priest, etc.....doesn't matter to me, unless they actually stick around and let us get to know them as a poster. I am sure it would be very interesting to have a "Packer Forum Get Together" and chances are, we would all "look" a bit different to each other in person.

Not picking on Mondio......and I think I have joked with him about this. But for whatever reason, whenever I picture him, I picture "Mongo" (Alex Karras) in Blazing Saddles.
 
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Guion and price. Our two best nose tackles. Gone. It's damn sure the reason our defense has struggled. We don't give a crap about the trenches.

It is apparent that capers and the brass are finally listening to reason, and bringing in some dline help. But those 3-4 DEs are supposed to have a big tough nose inside eating blocks.
Where is Johnnie Jolly when you need him!:rolleyes:
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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The food and the pleasant company in prison must be better than what we think.
They always say....."Surprise wake up sex is great.....except in Prison and at Band Camp" ;)

Not that there is anything wrong with that!
 

mradtke66

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But I'd like to clear up some things. The big nose is a guy who can beat a olineman one on one. Either run blocking or pass blocking. There are blocks being made. If a big nose is pushing the center, or guard back in the qbs lap like he isn't there. Then they need to double him... two blockers to slow his roll...

I really want to understand why you think a nose tackle is typically a good pass rusher. Where is this coming from? Why do you think this?

Most of the league (all?) pulls their NT when they're defending the pass. This isn't just a Capers thing.
 

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