Comparing 2008 Packers Roster vs 2023 Packers Roster

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tynimiller

tynimiller

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Tight ends having a hard time making an impact during the rookie season happens with every team around the league though. I don't expect Musgrave and Tucker to be any different.



I'm convinced the Packers wouldn't have spent two picks on tight ends in the first three rounds of the draft if they believed Deguara would be able to develop into a decent #1 or even #2 on the depth chart.

How can no one understand the role Deguara is in this system is not an inline TE???

He is an H Back type TE...essentially the modern day FB. His position in the offense is not nor was ever expected to replace guys like Tonyan and Lewis - sure he is going to line up at times inline or split beside in a double TE stack...but he WAS never expected to be that.
 

Mondio

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How can no one understand the role Deguara is in this system is not an inline TE???

He is an H Back type TE...essentially the modern day FB. His position in the offense is not nor was ever expected to replace guys like Tonyan and Lewis - sure he is going to line up at times inline or split beside in a double TE stack...but he WAS never expected to be that.
I think you're making the same point basically that he was. Deguara is NOT going to be a TE we need to line up on the end of the line, block and go out in to patterns. he's not that guy. He is a "TE", but he is NOT that TE and we were in desperate need of TE's that fill that role. Him being the only "TE" basically on the roster certainly factored in to their draft plans.
 
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tynimiller

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I think you're making the same point basically that he was. Deguara is NOT going to be a TE we need to line up on the end of the line, block and go out in to patterns. he's not that guy. He is a "TE", but he is NOT that TE and we were in desperate need of TE's that fill that role. Him being the only "TE" basically on the roster certainly factored in to their draft plans.

No Capt threw Deguara in the same bucket as Musgrave and Kraft in saying the develop into #1 or #2 in the same position group. Deguara was never from day one drafted for traditional TE work.
 

Mondio

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Well, he is in the same position group and I think you yourself said you expected him to line up all over, including inline.

Regardless, he’s a gadget piece at best at this point and hasn’t been a very good one. An offense needs functioning TEs or they’re not much. This team doesn’t have one .
 
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tynimiller

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Well, he is in the same position group and I think you yourself said you expected him to line up all over, including inline.

Regardless, he’s a gadget piece at best at this point and hasn’t been a very good one. An offense needs functioning TEs or they’re not much. This team doesn’t have one .

Correct, but to imply an expectation that Deguara was ever to be considered as a primary inline TE would IMO show someone doesn't understand the positional player he is. You didn't give Darren Sproles the ball on fourth and one at the goal line to run up the gut....expecting him to be a between the tackles body mover would be a similar thing to expecting Josiah to be a heavy snap use inline type.
 

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Correct, but to imply an expectation that Deguara was ever to be considered as a primary inline TE would IMO show someone doesn't understand the positional player he is. You didn't give Darren Sproles the ball on fourth and one at the goal line to run up the gut....expecting him to be a between the tackles body mover would be a similar thing to expecting Josiah to be a heavy snap use inline type.
Which is why I thought, and still do that he was a bad pick in round 3.
 
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Tight ends having a hard time making an impact during the rookie season happens with every team around the league though. I don't expect Musgrave and Tucker to be any different.

While I agree with you in an ordinary or typical scenario that Rookie TE’s don’t produce much.
That said. How often do we see a team move on from their best blocking and best pass catching TE and go double down and draft 2 TE’s in Day2?? The point I was making is we’ll likely see Musgrave or Kraft or both used more than your typical scenario. You are referring to a typical team, typical season, typical QB, typical starting incumbent TE, typical TE draft, typical Rookie TE.
However 2023 is the epitome of atypical for the Packers at TE.
 
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tynimiller

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Which is why I thought, and still do that he was a bad pick in round 3.

That isn’t the discussion however, Deguara will forever be like Love, or King or Aj Hawk - their play and such will never be able to be discussed without their round pick being brought forth.

I get it - I also don’t think he was a Day 2 guy, but doesn’t change anything other than my thoughts or grade perhaps of his pick as a prospect.
 
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How can no one understand the role Deguara is in this system is not an inline TE???

He is an H Back type TE...essentially the modern day FB. His position in the offense is not nor was ever expected to replace guys like Tonyan and Lewis - sure he is going to line up at times inline or split beside in a double TE stack...but he WAS never expected to be that.

Where did I say anything about Deguara being an inline tight end? I clearly mentioned that if the Packers believe he would be a decent #1 or #2 they wouldn't have spent two early picks on the position. They clearly didn't think he was capable of developing into one.

You didn't give Darren Sproles the ball on fourth and one at the goal line to run up the gut....expecting him to be a between the tackles body mover would be a similar thing to expecting Josiah to be a heavy snap use inline type.

Actually Sproles received five carries from the 1-yard line in his career and scored a touchdown on all of them. It might have been a good idea to use him in those situations more often :sneaky:

While I agree with you in an ordinary or typical scenario that Rookie TE’s don’t produce much.
That said. How often do we see a team move on from their best blocking and best pass catching TE and go double down and draft 2 TE’s in Day2?? The point I was making is we’ll likely see Musgrave or Kraft or both used more than your typical scenario. You are referring to a typical team, typical season, typical QB, typical starting incumbent TE, typical TE draft, typical Rookie TE.
However 2023 is the epitome of atypical for the Packers at TE.

I fully expect Musgrave and Kraft to receive a lot of snaps. That doesn't automatically result in them being productive though.

Last season, there were a total of 10 rookie tight ends who received at least 300 snaps. They combined to average 26.4 catches for 286 yards and 2.2 tochdowns.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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However 2023 is the epitome of atypical for the Packers at TE.
It will also be a complete change at QB for the Packers. Also, unlike 2008, when Rodgers took over for Favre, Love has inherited a very GREEN receiving room. His 2 veteran WR's are 2nd year players Watson and Doubs. The TE with the most experience, Deguara, is a guy with 39 career catches.

Given all the lack of experience surrounding the passing game, I don't really know what to expect from Love and this group. If I was a betting man, I would put my money on the higher odds of, it will be a mixed bag of some good, but probably more bad.
 
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tynimiller

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Where did I say anything about Deguara being an inline tight end? I clearly mentioned that if the Packers believe he would be a decent #1 or #2 they wouldn't have spent two early picks on the position. They clearly didn't think he was capable of developing into one.

Because an HBack is NEVER going to be a team's #1TE or #2TE except in crazy exception like Niners and Juszczyk.
 
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tynimiller

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Actually Sproles received five carries from the 1-yard line in his career and scored a touchdown on all of them. It might have been a good idea to use him in those situations more often :sneaky:
You're ignoring the point.
 

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Last season, there were a total of 10 rookie tight ends who received at least 300 snaps. They combined to average 26.4 catches for 286 yards and 2.2 tochdowns.

That’s actually not too shabby! For Rookies?
That’s 592 yards, 4-5 TD’s and actually surpasses 2022, TE1 Tonyan and TE2 Deguara in total yards production and doubled our 2022 TD’s.

I’m not sure if you realize it but that backfired. You just made a case for how bad the 2022, Packers TE1-2 combo was and made a case for drafting 2 Rookies.
 
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Interesting, so you are assuming the rookies will be TE1 & TE2.
Call them TE3/4 idc. It sure wouldn’t be hard to get 2022 receiving production from the top 2 combined. So no matter what you name ‘em it’s irrelevant.
The point is we were comparing combined production. Our best 2 TE in 2022 (passing game) were working on 8 years of service and we’re uninspiring. 2 TD’s?? Cmon are you serious.

These 2 TE rookie studs could trip over the Paint twice.
 
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My fear is that the paint will still be wet.
Then we’ll slide into the paint! Tucker has the home plate slide down perfectly :tup:
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Buddy of mine asked if I felt the young Rodgers had a better roster or Love does going into their first year as "the man"....to be honest I didn't remember the 2008 roster for sure so had to pull it up...for point of sharing here pasted below are the two rosters compared by position groups, I've put the year I feel gets the nod as better each time so that is why you see the order of 2008 or 2023 change at times for each position group:

QB
2008 - Aaron Rodgers / Matt Flynn
2023 - Jordan Love / Sean Clifford
*I give 08' a nod here probably out of sheer hindsight creates biasness when dealing with one of the best EVER...but retrospectively it is quite a close thing 2008 Rodgers to 2023 Love from a known commodity.

RB
2023 - Aaron Jones / AJ Dillon and company
2008 - Ryan Grant / Brandon Jackson
*IMO 2023 by A LOT

TE
2008 - Donald Lee / Jermichael Finley / Tory Humphrey
2023 - Deguara / Musgrave / Kraft
*This is honestly a tie IMO...Finley was no more known than Musgrave or Kraft are and Deguara and Lee had similar experience, but Lee JUST SLIGHTLY due to that one year he had nearly 600 yards prior.

WR
2008 - Jordy Nelson / Greg Jennings / Donald Driver / James Jones / Ruvell Martin
2023 - Watson / Doubs / Reed / Wicks / Toure
*On the surface quickly would go 2008...but remember Nelson was a rookie in 2008, Jones was in 2007...Driver and Jennings however STILL provide a clear 2008 win by proven results with Jones promising rookie campaign a bonus.

OL
2023 - Bakh / Jenkins / Myers / Tom / Nijman / Runyan / Rhyan / Newman
2008 - Barbre / Colledge / Sitton / Giacomini / Wells / Spitz / Tauscher
*Top shelf guys Bakh and Jenkins get massive nod IMO, middle of the lists might lean 08' but we have vastly more experience and depth of "starts" in 2023 IMO which means 23' takes it.

Front Seven (tough to compare as we ran different style...so doing main front 7 types)
2023 - Clark / Wyatt / Wooden / Brooks / Slayton / Campbell / Q. Walker / Gary / P Smith / LVN / Enagbare
2008 - Harrell / Pickett / Jenkins / Pettway / Kampman / Montgomery / Barnett / Poppinga / Bishop / Chillar
*I feel very strongly that this may be the group that 2023 beats 2008 the most (more than RB IMO). Clark and Campbell and Gary are All Pro caliber recently guys, Wyatt and Walker showcased belonging...Slayton improvement for sure and we haven't touched on the rest....2008 had a few VERY SOLID guys but the presence across board just doesn't compare.

CB
2008 - *Woodson / Harris / Tramon / Bush / Blackmon / Peprah / P Lee
2023 - Jaire / Rasul / Stokes / Nixon / Ballentine / Valentine
*Initially when I see Woodson or Harris I quickly went 08'....but I think this is closer than I originally thought but 08' still for sure.

S
2008 - Collins (MY MAN) / Rouse / Bigby / *Woodson
2023 - Savage / Ford / Moore / Owens / Johnson / Gaines / Leavitt
*Collins alone makes 08' get nod...however I'll say we are much deeper with experience and potential in 23'

K/P/LS
2008 - Crosby / Kapinos / Goode
2023 - Carlson / O'Donnell / Orzech?
*Crosby for sure over...O'Donnell for sure over and LS Goode...08' gets nod, Crosby alone at this point in his career I say gets it alone.

In summary:

2008 - Clearly got WR / CB / S / K/P/LS
Close Calls - QB 2008 gets it
Ties - TE group
2023 - Clearly got IMO OL / Front 7 Defense / RB
Did I mention I think you left out Chad Clifton from 2008? That might give the nod to 2008 because of experience. He was in many playoff games in his career.
 
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