unrealistic expectations

[NOMOFO]

Not even an attribution? http://www.packerforum.com/threads/the-sunshine-patriot.48885/#post-528647

TT only wants "young and cheap" but what did “he” just pay Rodgers and Matthews? And it’s ironic that Smokeycheddar accuses Thompson of depending upon “crossed fingers, lucky charms, and prayer” when that is more applicable to those franchises that heavily depend upon UFA, praying all the pieces fit. A GM depending upon luck would be one who trades up in the draft time and time again; reaching to that player he’s sure is going to be a star. Thompson’s style is more cold and logical, the opposite of what Smokey alleges.

I didn’t watch an entire Raiders game this season but I watched every play of Woodson’s career in Green Bay. IMO he was a shadow of himself his last year with the Packers and his style was not conducive to playing safety. He grabbed a lot and had clearly lost a step IMO. Hayward emerged in his rookie season as the “wild card” Woodson played so well for so many seasons. I’m not saying Hayward was as good of course, but he displayed instincts and a nose for the ball.

IMO the mistake was not letting Woodson go, it was not acquiring a mid-priced UFA safety to pair with Burnett. The expectation was that the winner of the MD Jennings/McMillian battle would be good enough, but some of us thought it made more sense to sign a vet and there were a few mid-priced safeties available. The need to fill that hole with a vet is even greater this season since the only player currently at that position we could hope to step up is Sean Richardson. I have high hopes for him, but he shouldn't be depended upon to be the answer IMO. For the team to improve, MD Jennings has to be replaced or be relegated to the end of the roster. He started every game and didn’t have an INT but even more damning, he was not credited with a single pass defensed.

Thompson has said in the past that rookies should not be depended upon for immediate help, that’s the role of second or third year players familiar with the system. And he has said filling an immediate need is the role of a UFA. I hope he finds a way to do so at safety this off season. Of course we shouldn’t expect it to be one signed during the first week of UFA, but just like last season, it doesn’t need to be. If Capers is still the DC and his system requires experienced vets, Thompson should give him one to pair with Burnett if at all possible.

Regarding rookies immediately helping, of course that’s the hope but it shouldn’t be the expectation, even for a draft and develop team. Look at the 2010 draft class. The one draftee who looked like he could make an immediate impact, third rounder Burnett, started the first four games, got injured and was IR’d. Obviously not necessary for the title run. First rounder Bulaga made a great contribution but only ended up doing so because Tauscher started four games, got injured and was IR’d. Does anyone believe the Packers wouldn’t have won a title with a healthy Mark Tauscher at RT? Quarless played after Finley was IR’d and caught 21 passes and scored a TD in the regular season. CJ Wilson played but wasn’t a critical part of the DL. Mike Neal played in 2 games, injured his shoulder and was IR’d in week 7. Newhouse didn’t play (thank goodness). James Starks made a huge contribution of any rookie in 2010, but without Ryan Grant’s injury on opening day, he would not have been necessary. Unless you define an immediate impact as being available on the bench in case a starter goes down, none of the draftees of 2010 qualify. IOW, if the Packers had the luck of being as healthy as some of this year’s playoff teams, there would have been no need for an immediate impact from any of the rookie class of 2010.

yep... I agree with almost every point. Like I said, sometimes it's a matter of being honest with ourselves. It's always the arm chair QBs that scream the loudest. Few Packer fans complained about Woodson being let go. The general
consensus was that he lost not one but a few steps. Now all of sudden we looked poor in the secondary, for a number of reasons, (lack of pass rush being A-NUMBER ONE in my mind) and we are going to pretend we wanted Woodson all along? Really?

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

Reggie White put GB's Defense over the top, and the team did not go broke !

 

[rodell330]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...rodell... did ya see the post of mine above and all of those historical numbers?!!! I fail to see how guys like you can ramble on like you do with all the hating without looking at FACTS.

You wanna talk JUST the past 3 years huh? Hmmmm... well...ok... 12 out of the NFL's 32 teams have not even MADE the playoffs the past 3 years.

The Packers just won their division, yet again, despite by far having the longest I.R. list in the NFL and then lost their first round game by a last second field goal. I tend to think the facts prove people like you are totally irrational, unrealistic and maybe a bit ADHD.

Lol come on man..the Packers won the division on sheer luck we both know that. It wasn't because TT put together some amazing roster. If anything thank you letters need to be sent to Matthew Stafford and Tony Romo for throwing bone head ints...has nothing to do with TT. But if it makes you feel better congrats to TT haha.

 

[longtimefan]

yea ok, but if your goal is to win the NFC North every year and get bounced early in the playoffs by the Niners and then be pissed that they are playing in NFC
title game every year so be it. I'm sure i'm not the only Packers fan who would prefer playing in the NFC Championship every year vs winning the NFC North every year. How has having the 1 playoff game at home worked out??

Just curious..Once the 2000 and Sherman got a lot of free agents, you probably were happy..

But then answer---Under Sherman---how many home playoff games did they lose? How many divisions did they win...and many losing season did they have?

 

[NOMOFO]

Lol come on man..the Packers won the division on sheer luck we both know that. It wasn't because TT put together some amazing roster. If anything thank you letters need to be sent to Matthew Stafford and Tony Romo for throwing bone head ints...has nothing to do with TT. But if it makes you feel better congrats to TT haha.

Luck? ...and Micah Hyde dropping what would have been a game ending interception wasn't "luck" for the Niners?

Rodgers missed much of the year and we were killed with injuries and we still won the division and you call that LUCK? Seriously?!... it's fine to point out flaws in the team, in Ted, in certain players...debate different draft issues... but clearly you aren't much of a Packer fan if you think this season represents Packer "luck". With just a little "luck" this Packer team would have been just a tad healthier and they would have blown the niners out in the playoffs.

LMAO..."luck"?... of course....I notice you are a fan going back all the way to 1990! Trust me big shooter. You're missing out on a few decades of NFL football to be making as bold of statements as you do.

I should stop. Analytical skills are something that often get developed much later in life and it's lacking in younger ages. 1990 huh?

 

[rodell330]

Luck? ...and Micah Hyde dropping what would have been a game ending interception wasn't "luck" for the Niners?

Rodgers missed much of the year and we were killed with injuries and we still won the division and you call that LUCK? Seriously?!... it's fine to point out flaws in the team, in Ted, in certain players...debate different draft issues... but clearly you aren't much of a Packer fan if you think this season represents Packer "luck". With just a little "luck" this Packer team would have been just a tad healthier and they would have blown the niners out in the playoffs.

LMAO..."luck"?... of course....I notice you are a fan going back all the way to 1990! Trust me big shooter. You're missing out on a few decades of NFL football to be making as bold of statements as you do.

I should stop. Analytical skills are something that often get developed much later in life and it's lacking in younger ages. 1990 huh?

I have my opinion and you have yours. Good day sir.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Luck? ...and Micah Hyde dropping what would have been a game ending interception wasn't "luck" for the Niners?

Rodgers missed much of the year and we were killed with injuries and we still won the division and you call that LUCK? Seriously?!... it's fine to point out flaws in the team, in Ted, in certain players...debate different draft issues... but clearly you aren't much of a Packer fan if you think this season represents Packer "luck". With just a little "luck" this Packer team would have been just a tad healthier and they would have blown the niners out in the playoffs.

LMAO..."luck"?... of course....I notice you are a fan going back all the way to 1990! Trust me big shooter. You're missing out on a few decades of NFL football to be making as bold of statements as you do.

I should stop. Analytical skills are something that often get developed much later in life and it's lacking in younger ages. 1990 huh?

That`s ageism . five yard penalty, repeat 1st down.

 

[Forderick]

Blown the niners out? Get real man.

No one in the NFC North deserved to be in the playoffs, did any team want to win that division? The bears and Lions were the teams to beat once Rodgers went down. McCown was playing really well for the bears and the Lions looked like they were about to take a step forward, well we all know that didnt' happen.

Yes it was part luck that the packers won the division but they beat the bears to do so. It was luck and teams tanking that put them in that position to win the division in the first place. So while they rose to the occasion and won, I still say its luck they were even in the running to win the division.

 

[NOMOFO]

Blown the niners out? Get real man.

No one in the NFC North deserved to be in the playoffs, did any team want to win that division? The bears and Lions were the teams to beat once Rodgers went down. McCown was playing really well for the bears and the Lions looked like they were about to take a step forward, well we all know that didnt' happen.

Yes it was part luck that the packers won the division but they beat the bears to do so. It was luck and teams tanking that put them in that position to win the division in the first place. So while they rose to the occasion and won, I still say its luck they were even in the running to win the division.

Honestly...again... you should stop following the team and pretending to be a "fan". We all have opinions on what can be done to "right the ship" from our totally not acceptable 3 year drought without a Super Bowl win. LMAO - yes...you are comical and SPOILED. We just won it all 3 years ago and listen to you.

We all have our opinions on all of this as to how to improve the team, but you not being at least somewhat "proud" of the team, if nothing else, that with all of the injuries they won the division and despite the ridiculous amount of injuries took the niners to the last second...sad really that all you got out of that as a fan is the complaints you rant on about. ...the Dallas win.... the Bears game to end the year....the Falcons game. Seeing Mulumba attempt to chase down Kaper****less on that last scramble because they ran out of healthy players....and all you get out of that this crap you spew? Sad.

 

[rodell330]

Just curious..Once the 2000 and Sherman got a lot of free agents, you probably were happy..

But then answer---Under Sherman---how many home playoff games did they lose? How many divisions did they win...and many losing season did they have?

Oh no Sherman was a terrible GM trust me i agree. There is a fine line between using the money wisely and bringing in help vs what Sherman did. The thing is TT squeezes the quarter until the eagle starts to scream. He needs to take a different approach this year, he HAS to fill the holes in the defense even if he has to spend a little. I'm almost tempted to say draft Darquez Dennard from Michigan State, and let Shileds walk so TT can sign another pass rusher and safety... Shileds is my favorite player on defense to... that's how much i want to see this defense improve.

 

[Carl]

Oh no Sherman was a terrible GM trust me i agree. There is a fine line between using the money wisely and bringing in help vs what Sherman did. The thing is TT squeezes the quarter until the eagle starts to scream. He needs to take a different approach this year, he HAS to fill the holes in the defense even if he has to spend a little. I'm almost tempted to say draft Darquez Dennard from Michigan State, and let Shileds walk so TT can sign another pass rusher and safety... Shileds is my favorite player on defense to... that's how much i want to see this defense improve.

He can't let our favorite player go!

 

[ivo610]

I see two posters on here keep talking TT being cheap. I was going to make a long drawn out post on how this is incorrect but its pointless.

Anyone that thinks he is being "cheap" is ignorant of how the nfl works.

 

[Carl]

I see two posters on here keep talking TT being cheap. I was going to make a long drawn out post on how this is incorrect but its pointless.

Anyone that thinks he is being "cheap" is ignorant of how the nfl works.

Agreed. TT's way is the only way to contend every season and not have to rebuild.

 

[Forderick]

He is cheap when it comes to free agents. If one other team is in the running for a player, the packers will not be getting that player.

Now, he isn't cheap when it comes to "His Guys". He will sign his drafted players to rich contracts, and some of the last few haven't turned out too well. He is so confident in his drafting he will overpay to keep his players, but won't budge when it cones to a free agent.

Carl, but the packers really aren't contending. They are following the Colts with Bill Polian's formula, that netted them 1 super bowl win. That is it. Every super bowl winning team has used free agency at some point on their way to winning it all. So why Ted has been so stubborn the last few years is beyond me.

The packers are in a position where we can't keep waiting for these raw talent projects to emerge. They need immediate help on the defence. This YEAR not 3 years from now. At some point you need to take a chance on a few players and go for it. This is not to say sign a Julius Peppers to a massive deal, but there are mid tier guys who help a team big time at decent prices. There are deals to be made, but Ted just does not make those deals happen.

Whether you agree or not with the way Ted is running this team, this team should be contending for the NFC Championship more times than not. It should be an interesting offseason. Let's just hope we have a good draft and maybe sign a couple players in free agency.

 

[Carl]

He is cheap when it comes to free agents. If one other team is in the running for a player, the packers will not be getting that player.

Now, he isn't cheap when it comes to "His Guys". He will sign his drafted players to rich contracts, and some of the last few haven't turned out too well. He is so confident in his drafting he will overpay to keep his players, but won't budge when it cones to a free agent.

Carl, but the packers really aren't contending. They are following the Colts with Bill Polian's formula, that netted them 1 super bowl win. That is it. Every super bowl winning team has used free agency at some point on their way to winning it all. So why Ted has been so stubborn the last few years is beyond me.

The packers are in a position where we can't keep waiting for these raw talent projects to emerge. They need immediate help on the defence. This YEAR not 3 years from now. At some point you need to take a chance on a few players and go for it. This is not to say sign a Julius Peppers to a massive deal, but there are mid tier guys who help a team big time at decent prices. There are deals to be made, but Ted just does not make those deals happen.

Whether you agree or not with the way Ted is running this team, this team should be contending for the NFC Championship more times than not. It should be an interesting offseason. Let's just hope we have a good draft and maybe sign a couple players in free agency.

IMO, they are. This season, they came very close to beating the 49ers while be ravaged by injuries. Switch it around with the 49ers missing their two best guys on defense while the Packers having theirs, I think the game goes the other way.

It just happens they had to play them early in the postseason. They probably would have avoided them until the NFC title game if Rodgers didn't get hurt, most likely being the 3rd seed. The certainly looked better to me than the Saints and Panthers did last weekend.

The previous two seasons, they were 11-5 (actually 12-4) and 15-1. I think any team good enough to get that many wins has enough talent to win it all.

 

[AmishMafia]

He is cheap when it comes to free agents. If one other team is in the running for a player, the packers will not be getting that player.

Now, he isn't cheap when it comes to "His Guys". He will sign his drafted players to rich contracts, and some of the last few haven't turned out too well. He is so confident in his drafting he will overpay to keep his players, but won't budge when it cones to a free agent.

Carl, but the packers really aren't contending. They are following the Colts with Bill Polian's formula, that netted them 1 super bowl win. That is it. Every super bowl winning team has used free agency at some point on their way to winning it all. So why Ted has been so stubborn the last few years is beyond me.

The packers are in a position where we can't keep waiting for these raw talent projects to emerge. They need immediate help on the defence. This YEAR not 3 years from now. At some point you need to take a chance on a few players and go for it. This is not to say sign a Julius Peppers to a massive deal, but there are mid tier guys who help a team big time at decent prices. There are deals to be made, but Ted just does not make those deals happen.

Whether you agree or not with the way Ted is running this team, this team should be contending for the NFC Championship more times than not. It should be an interesting offseason. Let's just hope we have a good draft and maybe sign a couple players in free agency.

So if a man walks into a bar and orders the best Cognac they have, $500 per glass but doesn't order the $400 glass of wine - does that make him cheap?

Carl, but the packers really aren't contending. They are following the Colts with Bill Polian's formula, that netted them 1 super bowl win. That is it. Every super bowl winning team has used free agency at some point on their way to winning it all. So why Ted has been so stubborn the last few years is beyond me.

Ford, yes they are. The Packers have one of the best rosters in the NFL. We came extremely close to beating the team you admire - with many more injuries than they contended with. 28 other teams are out of it. And next week 2 more teams will be out of it.

Stop thinking anything short of a SB victory means you have to alter the way you do business. Following that philosophy, did you think the Patriots should have cut Brady and fired Belicheck last year? Been a while since they have been to the big dance. Guess what, they are back again.

The packers are in a position where we can't keep waiting for these raw talent projects to emerge. They need immediate help on the defence. This YEAR not 3 years from now. At some point you need to take a chance on a few players and go for it. This is not to say sign a Julius Peppers to a massive deal, but there are mid tier guys who help a team big time at decent prices. There are deals to be made, but Ted just does not make those deals happen.

Why can't they wait for talent to emerge? Waiting more than a few month seems prudent. What about Perry, Jones, Boyd, Palmer, House, Worthy, etc. ? They are still young and on the roster. Kneejerks seem to want to call a player a bust before their rookie seasons are over. Guess what? We will probably draft a few other defensive players who will have little impact next season. But some of the 2013 and 2012 guys will step to the plate.

Whether you agree or not with the way Ted is running this team, this team should be contending for the NFC Championship more times than not. It should be an interesting offseason. Let's just hope we have a good draft and maybe sign a couple players in free agency.

I actually endorse the signing of a mid range Safety. I don't see any in the draft that will immediately step up and our Safety play was poor. If we don't, it won't be because we didn't try; TT is too cheap; TT doesn't realize when FA starts; TT has too much ego; etc. I am sure TT tries every avenue - but he will be very prudent.

 

[Carl]

Lol come on man..the Packers won the division on sheer luck we both know that. It wasn't because TT put together some amazing roster. If anything thank you letters need to be sent to Matthew Stafford and Tony Romo for throwing bone head ints...has nothing to do with TT. But if it makes you feel better congrats to TT haha.

You could also say it's unlucky Rodgers was hurt and the Packers couldn't win it until week 17.

 

[longtimefan]

People just need to stop freaking out on Ted not getting a FA

This happens EVERY year, havent you guys learned by now?

 

[Forderick]

Amish, when Ted relies solely on the draft, he needs players to make an impact right away, or the defence will be bad, like it has been the last 3 years. I agree young players sometimes need a few seasons before they hit their stride, and there is nothing wrong with that. But they don't have the luxury of sitting behind a starter and learn Dom Capers system, they are thrown in to the fire and are suffering because of it.

If Ted would get some free agent help and acquire a veteran safety, a veteran linebacker, and possibly a veteran defensive lineman. These young guys could learn the system and know it before they have to be thrown in. When you hire a guy who has a really difficult system to learn, you cannot expect rookies to know how it works or know every play. But when drafting is the only way Ted has acquired players, those rookies and 2nd year players need to be good-great in order for this to work and the last 3 years, they just haven't.

Maybe next year with everyone healthy, the rookies won't have to start and maybe the 3rd year players will be finally ready to take that next step. but if he lets certain players walk, injuries happen again, it will be nothing more than rinse and repeat.

Carl, barely losing a game is still losing. I am happy it wasn't a blowout and that they didn't get embarrassed but until the packers actually start living up to their potential and winning some playoff games, they will still be nothing more than a team good enough to make the playoffs but can't hang with the elite teams of the league. This has been true the last 3 years. I hope next year they finally take that step and become the team we all know they can be, I just fear it will be rinse and repeat with free agency and drafting, and be stuck with the same problems. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Forderick]

Honestly...again... you should stop following the team and pretending to be a "fan". We all have opinions on what can be done to "right the ship" from our totally not acceptable 3 year drought without a Super Bowl win. LMAO - yes...you are comical and SPOILED. We just won it all 3 years ago and listen to you.

We all have our opinions on all of this as to how to improve the team, but you not being at least somewhat "proud" of the team, if nothing else, that with all of the injuries they won the division and despite the ridiculous amount of injuries took the niners to the last second...sad really that all you got out of that as a fan is the complaints you rant on about. ...the Dallas win.... the Bears game to end the year....the Falcons game. Seeing Mulumba attempt to chase down Kaper****less on that last scramble because they ran out of healthy players....and all you get out of that this crap you spew? Sad.

I have said plenty of times, I was relieved the game wasn't a blowout, and that they didn't get embarrassed like the last 2 playoffs. Losing by 3 is still losing, should i be happy about that?

3 years of essentially being one and done. Yeah I expect better. Sorry for wanting the best and being upset when that doesn't happen. I know the team can't win the super bowl every year, but sure hope they do.

Did you even read what I wrote, the packers rose to the occasion and beat the bears to win the division. while the packers were lucky to be in that position they took the ball and ran with it. Good on them to win the division, but that doesn't change the fact that the division was bad overall. And the last 4 weeks of the season, it seemed like no one wanted to win it.

Being a fan doesn't mean I have to think everything is great and what the team is doing is working out so well, (proof is in the pudding).

I hope next year they can get healthy and make a run at another super bowl, or at least make the NFC championship game. I just don't want to see another Hall of Fame quarterback's career go down with only 1 super bowl title because they can't build a team around him to win.

 

[longtimefan]

When you hire a guy who has a really difficult system to learn, you cannot expect rookies to know how it works or know every play.

Maybe next year with everyone healthy, the rookies won't have to start and maybe the 3rd year players will be finally ready to take that next step.

I am happy it wasn't a blowout and that they didn't get embarrassed but until the packers actually start living up to their potential .

You are claiming that we need vets to help the rookies along (which I would agree with)

But then you say the Packers need to live up to their potential..To me your saying they have all the talent, and dont need any one else..

I am not trying to start an argument, but this struck me odd, and I think it needs a little bit of explaining, if you dont mind?

 

[TJV]

... this team should be contending for the NFC Championship more times than not.

Just to be clear:
Do you mean the Packers should be in the NFC Championship game more than 50% of the time?
Or in the game to get into the NFC Championship more than 50% of time?
BTW, did the irony of typing this in a thread titled "unrealistic expectations" strike you at all?

 

[rodell330]

People just need to stop freaking out on Ted not getting a FA

This happens EVERY year, havent you guys learned by now?

Hasn't TT learned that his methods are not always going to work? his not getting some veteran help via FA is hurting the young guys and defense if Capers scheme is as "complex" as i hear it is. Mise well hang a sign on Lambeau Field that says...Defense now hiring...no experience necessary....we believe strongly in our draft and develop method (undrafted rookies need not apply)

 

[longtimefan]

Hasn't TT learned that his methods are not always going to work? his not getting some veteran help via FA is hurting the young guys and defense if Capers scheme is as "complex" as i hear it is. Mise well hang a sign on Lambeau Field that says...Defense now hiring...no experience necessary....we believe strongly in our draft and develop method (undrafted rookies need not apply)

Can I change his ways? Can you posting on here change his ways?

No to both..It wont change, so just accept it..

But, if you go into thinking he wont do it, and then he does, it will make you that much happier

 

[NOMOFO]

Hasn't TT learned that his methods are not always going to work? his not getting some veteran help via FA is hurting the young guys and defense if Capers scheme is as "complex" as i hear it is. Mise well hang a sign on Lambeau Field that says...Defense now hiring...no experience necessary....we believe strongly in our draft and develop method (undrafted rookies need not apply)

AGAIN- Three years ago his "method" got us a Super Bowl. THREE years ago!

The Pack won the division yet AGAIN this year over the Bears, Lions and Vikes. (Three teams that often play in the free agent market.) Why aren't free agents like Reggie Bush and Julies Peppers getting these teams to the playoffs!? Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz.... I'm so confused.

You guys are showing a monumental lack of analytical skills to go along with being spoiled.

It really shouldn't be THIS hard to understand: TEAMS THAT PLAY IN FREE AGENCY DO NOT HAVE THE FUNDS TO BUILD A LONG-TERM ROSTER!!!! It really is that simple.

We have all the proof in the world just looking at winning percentages, playoff appearances and division titles!

Most of what gets spewed by the anti-Ted crowd is absolutely beyond "uninformed", to say the very least. It borders on insanity. Comments like "The rest of the division is getting better". "We'll never win a Super Bowl with Ted Thompson being this way." "Just look at ENTER TEAM HERE and how great they are." (and they've won 40 less games than the Pack the past 10 years)

lol .... yes... you guys are nuts.