unrealistic expectations

[rodell330]

I see two posters on here keep talking TT being cheap. I was going to make a long drawn out post on how this is incorrect but its pointless.

Anyone that thinks he is being "cheap" is ignorant of how the nfl works.

If it looks like a duck, and quaks like a duck?? it's a duck.

 

[ivo610]

If it looks like a duck, and quaks like a duck?? it's a duck.

Did you just call yourself ignorant?

 

[rodell330]

So if a man walks into a bar and orders the best Cognac they have, $500 per glass but doesn't order the $400 glass of wine - does that make him cheap?

Ford, yes they are. The Packers have one of the best rosters in the NFL. We came extremely close to beating the team you admire - with many more injuries than they contended with. 28 other teams are out of it. And next week 2 more teams will be out of it.

Stop thinking anything short of a SB victory means you have to alter the way you do business. Following that philosophy, did you think the Patriots should have cut Brady and fired Belicheck last year? Been a while since they have been to the big dance. Guess what, they are back again.

Why can't they wait for talent to emerge? Waiting more than a few month seems prudent. What about Perry, Jones, Boyd, Palmer, House, Worthy, etc. ? They are still young and on the roster. Kneejerks seem to want to call a player a bust before their rookie seasons are over. Guess what? We will probably draft a few other defensive players who will have little impact next season. But some of the 2013 and 2012 guys will step to the plate.
I actually endorse the signing of a mid range Safety. I don't see any in the draft that will immediately step up and our Safety play was poor. If we don't, it won't be because we didn't try; TT is too cheap; TT doesn't realize when FA starts; TT has too much ego; etc. I am sure TT tries every avenue - but he will be very prudent.

No...just means he likes Cognac in my opinion. Some of TT's picks are his favorite Cognac... but eventually if you drink to much of your "favorite" Cognac you get drunk and fall flat on your ****. A fine glass of AGED wine is ok every now and then ..even if you have it SHIPPED in from somewhere else

 

[rodell330]

Can I change his ways? Can you posting on here change his ways?

No to both..It wont change, so just accept it..

But, if you go into thinking he wont do it, and then he does, it will make you that much happier

I would be delighted if he signed some FA..sure would.

 

[rodell330]

Did you just call yourself ignorant?

Far from, i am however calling TT cheap...except for when it comes to his guys like i mentioned a while back in another thread. No ones picking on TT but come on man. Look at what he's drafted on defense in the Aaron Rodgers era. The list leaves a lot to be desired, and it's no wonder why the draft and develop method hasn't worked on defense. More then half these guys are either completely off the roster or have little to no impact at all on defense. So with all that being said, do you still think that TT shouldn't spend a little via FA for some help on defense? If your answer is still no i will start to wonder if you are either related to TT or if you are actually him posting in the forums.

Nick Collins
Marviel underwood
Brady Poppinga
Mike Hawkins
Mike montgomery
Kurt Campbell
Aj Hawk
Abdul hodge
Will blackmon
Johnny Jolly
Tyrone culver
Dave Tollefson
Justin Harrell
Aaron Rouse
Desmond bishop
Pat Lee
Jeremy Thompson
Bj Raji
Clay Matthews
Jarius Wynn
Brandon Underwood
Brad Jones
Mike Neal
Morgan Burnett
CJ Wilson
Devon house
DJ Smith
Ricky Elmore
Lawrence Guy
Nick Perry
Jerel worthy
Casey Heyward
Mike Daniels
Jerron McMillan
Terell Manning
Daytone Jones
Micah Hyde
Nate Palmer
Sam Barrington

 

[ivo610]

Far from, i am however calling TT cheap.

In case you forgot http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...ws-contract-extension-green-bay-aaron-rodgers

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-o...s-sign-qb-aaron-rodgers-to-contract-extension

I would also suggest reading up on the ownership structure of the packers as well as how the salary cap works, the implementation of the salary floor and how carry over $ is taken into account.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your argument.

 

[rodell330]

In case you forgot http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...ws-contract-extension-green-bay-aaron-rodgers

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-o...s-sign-qb-aaron-rodgers-to-contract-extension

I would also suggest reading up on the ownership structure of the packers as well as how the salary cap works, the implementation of the salary floor and how carry over $ is taken into account.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your argument.

We are talking defense...defense! any GM in the world would sign the best player at his position to a large contract if he had any common sense...so because he made sure to lock up the best player in the NFL he's a big spender? ok man. As far as Clay Matthews goes he's the only all pro type player on defense so locking him up was a no brainer as well... but what kind of help does he have around him?? Exactly, not much. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your argument.

 

[NOMOFO]

No...just means he likes Cognac in my opinion. Some of TT's picks are his favorite Cognac... but eventually if you drink to much of your "favorite" Cognac you get drunk and fall flat on your ****. A fine glass of AGED whine is ok every now and then ..even if you have it SHIPPED in from somewhere else

I think you mean wine not whine? Actually...a common misunderstanding about wine is that all wine is better when aged. Not true. Most wine is better when drunk "young" and all wine expires eventually. Even wine that does get better when aged a bit, will eventually go bad. So be careful rodell, don't rush to buy that $450 bottle of Merlot on sale for $25. There's probably a very good reason the price is reduced!

 

[longtimefan]

There is a difference being cheap and not wanting to sing a FA..

TT should be called stubborn, not cheap

 

[rodell330]

I think you mean wine not whine? Actually...a common misunderstanding about wine is that all wine is better when aged. Not true. Most wine is better when drunk "young" and all wine expires eventually. Even wine that does get better when aged a bit, will eventually go bad. So be careful rodell, don't rush to buy that $450 bottle of Merlot on sale for $25. There's probably a very good reason the price is reduced!

So what you are saying is that Brad Jones is a bottle of Merlot? Then Teddy must really like Merlot.

 

[NOMOFO]

There is a difference being cheap and not wanting to sing a FA..

TT should be called stubborn, not cheap

AMEN...well said. We'll look at this very closely this year. I am dying to see all of these free agents that will be available at a decent price and they are a perfect fit to get us to the Superbowl. We'll let all these expert arm chair GMs tell us exactly what Ted should do at that point, not after the season and after the fact!

There is just soooooooooo much more to rostering and this approach than Ted haters even begin think about. Ted haters think there's this long list of guys that TT could just run out and sign that would be a great fit. It's just not the case.

I highly suspect that if a decent player comes available on the defensive side, at a decent price and a decent contract in terms of years, Thompson will grab him like he did Woodson. THAT is one of the main issues! To sign a guy to a one year contract like Seattle just did with Bennett is probably not going to happen. Here is the thing AGAIN... as the Searags are signing all these free agents, Wilson is sitting there playing at less the one million a season! With every passing year that he's not re-worked, his price tag goes up! Now you are paying him much more than you could have over several years! Before you know it you don't have cash or a very deep roster with this approach! NONE of this is taken into account by the arm chair GMs on this forum. None of it! They just want guys signed and want a Super Bowl every year and that is that!

I fail to see how anyone spending any time looking at the complete rosters and contracts of San Fran and Seattle don't understand that both teams are really in big big trouble. ...but it should be no shocker...it's only been a few years since both teams started winning again and it'll be no shocker to me when they're back at the bottom soon! ...but NONE of that is ever looked at by the anti-Ted crowd.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

AGAIN- Three years ago his "method" got us a Super Bowl. THREE years ago!

The Pack won the division yet AGAIN this year over the Bears, Lions and Vikes. (Three teams that often play in the free agent market.) Why aren't free agents like Reggie Bush and Julies Peppers getting these teams to the playoffs!? Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz.... I'm so confused.

You guys are showing a monumental lack of analytical skills to go along with being spoiled.

It really shouldn't be THIS hard to understand: TEAMS THAT PLAY IN FREE AGENCY DO NOT HAVE THE FUNDS TO BUILD A LONG-TERM ROSTER!!!! It really is that simple.

We have all the proof in the world just looking at winning percentages, playoff appearances and division titles!

Most of what gets spewed by the anti-Ted crowd is absolutely beyond "uninformed", to say the very least. It borders on insanity. Comments like "The rest of the division is getting better". "We'll never win a Super Bowl with Ted Thompson being this way." "Just look at ENTER TEAM HERE and how great they are." (and they've won 40 less games than the Pack the past 10 years)

lol .... yes... you guys are nuts.

It´s funny that you only use teams in our division as an example. Let´s take a look at the teams that made it to the championship games:

In Seattle, Marshawn Lynch (acquired for a 4th and a 5th round pick) had 140 rushing yards and 2 TDs vs. the Saints.
Le Garette Blount had 166 rushing yards and 4 TDs in the Patriots win vs. the Colts. He was acquired for a 7th rounder.
Anquan Boldin had 136 receiving yards in the Niners win at Carolina, he was acquired for a 6th round pick.
Denver signed Peyton Manning in free agency and have gone 27-7 since.

Yeah, there´s really proof it doesn´t make any sense to participate in free agency or trade for guys.

 

[longtimefan]

Anquan Boldin had 136 receiving yards in the Niners win at Carolina, he was acquired for a 6th round pick.
.

I think that the one brother tried to help the other brother with that trade

 

[Deleted member 6794]

as the Searags are signing all these free agents, Wilson is sitting there playing at less the one million a season! With every passing year that he's not re-worked, his price tag goes up! Now you are paying him much more than you could have over several years! Before you know it you don't have cash or a very deep roster with this approach! NONE of this is taken into account by the arm chair GMs on this forum. None of it! They just want guys signed and want a Super Bowl every year and that is that!

The Seahawks can´t re-negotiate Wilson´s contract until after next season. Get your facts straight.

 

[longtimefan]

The Seahawks can´t re-negotiate Wilson´s contract until after next season. Get your facts straight.

You are correct...for wilson that would be AFTER the end of next season

Point is still valid that his price tag rises every year..So the Hawks have him for one more year than will have to pay him HUGE

 

[NOMOFO]

It´s funny that you only use teams in our division as an example. Let´s take a look at the teams that made it to the championship games:

In Seattle, Marshawn Lynch (acquired for a 4th and a 5th round pick) had 140 rushing yards and 2 TDs vs. the Saints.
Le Garette Blount had 166 rushing yards and 4 TDs in the Patriots win vs. the Colts. He was acquired for a 7th rounder.
Anquan Boldin had 136 receiving yards in the Niners win at Carolina, he was acquired for a 6th round pick.
Denver signed Peyton Manning in free agency and have gone 27-7 since.

Yeah, there´s really proof it doesn´t make any sense to participate in free agency or trade for guys.

I used teams in our division mainly because several guys mentioned our division and how lucky we were to win it!!!! I asked, how is it luck when THOSE teams participated in free agency more than we did and every single one of them was MUCH healthier this year!!!!!!

You posting those free agent examples mean NOTHING, zero... ZILCH without looking at the individual situations on those teams and the contract the player signed. It's always 100% clear when somebody really doesn't have much depth to an argument when they mention one season, much less one GAME as an example of why a free agent was a great signing. I'm not going to re-post about Seattle and San Fran again. The next two years will prove guys like you wrong about both teams fantastic roster moves.

Said it a million times now... EVERY M'Fing FACT behind win percentages, playoff appearances ....division crowns...going back a decade should be all the proof you need. ....but non-analytical types won't look past the here and now.

I'd be willing to bet Ted Thompson haters don't have retirement accounts set up and most TT fans do. JUST SAYIN.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You are correct...for wilson that would be AFTER the end of next season

Point is still valid that his price tag rises every year..So the Hawks have him for one more year than will have to pay him HUGE

That´s correct. And they´ll have to re-do Sherman´s contract after next season as well.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I used teams in our division mainly because several guys mentioned our division and how lucky we were to win it!!!! I asked, how is it luck when THOSE teams participated in free agency more than we did and every single one of them was MUCH healthier this year!!!!!!

You posting those free agent examples mean NOTHING, zero... ZILCH without looking at the individual situations on those teams and the contract the player signed. It's always 100% clear when somebody really doesn't have much depth to an argument when they mention one season, much less one GAME as an example of why a free agent was a great signing. I'm not going to re-post about Seattle and San Fran again. The next two years will prove guys like you wrong about both teams fantastic roster moves.

Said it a million times now... EVERY M'Fing FACT behind win percentages, playoff appearances ....division crowns...going back a decade should be all the proof you need. ....but non-analytical types won't look past the here and now.

I'd be willing to bet Ted Thompson haters don't have retirement accounts set up and most TT fans do. JUST SAYIN.

You haven´t posted a single fact about the effects of participating in free agency. NOT A SINGLE FACT!!!

The 49ers and Seahawks will be in cap troubles over the next few years, but that has nothing to do with signing free agents. The league is set up to work that way. Great teams won´t be able to hold on to all of their players because of the cap. That´s a fact, no matter how you acquired them.

Overpaying for players gets a team into troubles with the cap without being good, and Burnett´s and Jones´ deal don´t look good right now.

 

[rodell330]

I fail to see how anyone spending any time looking at the complete rosters and contracts of San Fran and Seattle don't understand that both teams are really in big big trouble. ...but it should be no shocker...it's only been a few years since both teams started winning again and it'll be no shocker to me when they're back at the bottom soon! ...but NONE of that is ever looked at by the anti-Ted crowd.[/quote]



Nope, the "haters" just focus on a team that is playing in it's third consecuctive conference championship who's probably not thinking about when they will ever be back on the "bottom". The mindset over there is win championships now and worry about rosters and contracts when the time comes. I think i like their method a little better.

 

[rodell330]

You haven´t posted a single fact about the effects of participating in free agency. NOT A SINGLE FACT!!!

The 49ers and Seahawks will be in cap troubles over the next few years, but that has nothing to do with signing free agents. The league is set up to work that way. Great teams won´t be able to hold on to all of their players because of the cap. That´s a fact, no matter how you acquired them.

Overpaying for players gets a team into troubles with the cap without being good, and Burnett´s and Jones´ deal don´t look good right now.

Beat me to it!

 

[NOMOFO]

I fail to see how anyone spending any time looking at the complete rosters and contracts of San Fran and Seattle don't understand that both teams are really in big big trouble. ...but it should be no shocker...it's only been a few years since both teams started winning again and it'll be no shocker to me when they're back at the bottom soon! ...but NONE of that is ever looked at by the anti-Ted crowd.

Nope, the "haters" just focus on a team that is playing in it's third consecuctive conference championship who's probably not thinking about when they will ever be back on the "bottom". The mindset over there is win championships now and worry about rosters and contracts when the time comes. I think i like their method a little better.[/quote]

LMAO. Are you kidding me?!! I posted the complete roster and CAP of the Searags and about 40 posts with detailed info!!!!!!!! What else do you want?!! THIS is EXACTLY why I mentioned the ADHD issue with the Ted haters.

OK...cliff notes version for you on everything I have posted already WAY too many times! lol

A. The Packers under Ted Thompson are the 5th winningest team the past 5 years. Not sure what better way to prove a point than showing the amount of wins. ?!!! ... but nope- people like you point to the **** team of the year and go "Look! THAT is how we should operate!" Next January people like you will have another set of teams entirely that you will be pointing to as the Searags and Niners head back down the crapper! People like you are also not the least honest about these things. PLEASE try to tell me Ted haters weren't complaining about Bush going to Detroit and Peppers to Chicago and pointing to those two! Case in point. Where did that get those teams? As predictable as the sun setting in the East, you rant on about the "free agent d-jour" in your posts! (Ie... Manning, Lynch etc etc etc)

B. There is the tiney itty bitty little point that... TED THOMPSON'S ROSTER WON THE M'fing SUPER BOWL JUST THREE F'ING YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY GOD!!!!!!!!!

C. Every free agent that gets signed makes less money available to sign (or extend) somebody else on your roster. It is BRILLIANT for Thompson to continually look at the roster and get the most bang for the buck on the CAP space. By extending players, he IS... and it's not debatable, he IS saving CAP space down the road.

D. For the second straight season the Packers are killed with injuries and they won the division and played the Niners dead even in the playoffs. How is that NOT a fact that any logical humane being would consider when analyzing the Packer's roster, and hence, the need for free agent spending?!!! Of course, WTF would we expect when the Packers just WON THE F'ING SUPER BOWL THREE YEARS AGO And....AND are the 5th winningest team under Thompson!!!!!!! If THAT doesn't speak volumes about this entire debate, what will?

E. Do you want to go *** for tat on this? You list your top 20 free agent signing to try to prove your point. For every one you list, I'll list 10 that ended up being horrible signings!!! BUT AGAIN... people like you can't even think that far in advance! You really and truly can't comprehend how eating the final years on a free agent contract KILLS a CAP. Yet, that is EXACTLY what happens in most free agent signings! ...or at the very least, they are getting grossly over-paid in their final years!

F. What, in the name of God, would make anti-Ted people like you think that if our roster was healthy, we WOULD'NT still be playing right now!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? THIS is the most frustrating part of hearing you guys squak!!! San Fran snuck out of Green Bay with a last second win, despite 75% of our opening day roster being on the I.R.. AGAIN I will ask, how exactly does any logical person think, "ooooh, ya, we need to TOTALLY rethink this mess". ? I mean....seriously!

 

[NOMOFO]

You haven´t posted a single fact about the effects of participating in free agency. NOT A SINGLE FACT!!!

The 49ers and Seahawks will be in cap troubles over the next few years, but that has nothing to do with signing free agents. The league is set up to work that way. Great teams won´t be able to hold on to all of their players because of the cap. That´s a fact, no matter how you acquired them.

Overpaying for players gets a team into troubles with the cap without being good, and Burnett´s and Jones´ deal don´t look good right now.

"The 49ers and Seahawks will be in cap troubles over the next few years, but that has nothing to do with signing free agents."

LMMFAO!!!! WHAT?????? "Nothing to do with signing free agents"?

Honestly... you really...and I mean REALLY should not even begin to debate this roster-CAP issue if you honestly believe that.

 

[rodell330]

Nope, the "haters" just focus on a team that is playing in it's third consecuctive conference championship who's probably not thinking about when they will ever be back on the "bottom". The mindset over there is win championships now and worry about rosters and contracts when the time comes. I think i like their method a little better.

LMAO. Are you kidding me?!! I posted the complete roster and CAP of the Searags and about 40 posts with detailed info!!!!!!!! What else do you want?!! THIS is EXACTLY why I mentioned the ADHD issue with the Ted haters.

OK...cliff notes version for you on everything I have posted already WAY too many times! lol

A. The Packers under Ted Thompson are the 5th winningest team the past 5 years. Not sure what better way to prove a point than showing the amount of wins. ?!!! ... but nope- people like you point to the **** team of the year and go "Look! THAT is how we should operate!" Next January people like you will have another set of teams entirely that you will be pointing to as the Searags and Niners head back down the crapper! People like you are also not the least honest about these things. PLEASE try to tell me Ted haters weren't complaining about Bush going to Detroit and Peppers to Chicago and pointing to those two! Case in point. Where did that get those teams? As predictable as the sun setting in the East, you rant on about the "free agent d-jour" in your posts! (Ie... Manning, Lynch etc etc etc)

B. There is the tiney itty bitty little point that... TED THOMPSON'S ROSTER WON THE M'fing SUPER BOWL JUST THREE F'ING YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY GOD!!!!!!!!!

C. Every free agent that gets signed makes less money available to sign (or extend) somebody else on your roster. It is BRILLIANT for Thompson to continually look at the roster and get the most bang for the buck on the CAP space. By extending players, he IS... and it's not debatable, he IS saving CAP space down the road.

D. For the second straight season the Packers are killed with injuries and they won the division and played the Niners dead even in the playoffs. How is that NOT a fact that any logical humane being would consider when analyzing the Packer's roster, and hence, the need for free agent spending?!!! Of course, WTF would we expect when the Packers just WON THE F'ING SUPER BOWL THREE YEARS AGO And....AND are the 5th winningest team under Thompson!!!!!!! If THAT doesn't speak volumes about this entire debate, what will?

E. Do you want to go *** for tat on this? You list your top 20 free agent signing to try to prove your point. For every one you list, I'll list 10 that ended up being horrible signings!!! BUT AGAIN... people like you can't even think that far in advance! You really and truly can't comprehend how eating the final years on a free agent contract KILLS a CAP. Yet, that is EXACTLY what happens in most free agent signings! ...or at the very least, they are getting grossly over-paid in their final years!

F. What, in the name of God, would make anti-Ted people like you think that if our roster was healthy, we WOULD'NT still be playing right now!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? THIS is the most frustrating part of hearing you guys squak!!! San Fran snuck out of Green Bay with a last second win, despite 75% of our opening day roster being on the I.R.. AGAIN I will ask, how exactly does any logical person think, "ooooh, ya, we need to TOTALLY rethink this mess". ? I mean....seriously![/quote]


Uh how about the last three years? being blown out in two of those years because of a bad defense. But i guess thats ok because we won the M'FING SB smh. Fans living in the past need to rethink this mess more then we do.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Nope, the "haters" just focus on a team that is playing in it's third consecuctive conference championship who's probably not thinking about when they will ever be back on the "bottom". The mindset over there is win championships now and worry about rosters and contracts when the time comes. I think i like their method a little better.

LMAO. Are you kidding me?!! I posted the complete roster and CAP of the Searags and about 40 posts with detailed info!!!!!!!! What else do you want?!! THIS is EXACTLY why I mentioned the ADHD issue with the Ted haters.

OK...cliff notes version for you on everything I have posted already WAY too many times! lol

A. The Packers under Ted Thompson are the 5th winningest team the past 5 years. Not sure what better way to prove a point than showing the amount of wins. ?!!! ... but nope- people like you point to the **** team of the year and go "Look! THAT is how we should operate!" Next January people like you will have another set of teams entirely that you will be pointing to as the Searags and Niners head back down the crapper! People like you are also not the least honest about these things. PLEASE try to tell me Ted haters weren't complaining about Bush going to Detroit and Peppers to Chicago and pointing to those two! Case in point. Where did that get those teams? As predictable as the sun setting in the East, you rant on about the "free agent d-jour" in your posts! (Ie... Manning, Lynch etc etc etc)

B. There is the tiney itty bitty little point that... TED THOMPSON'S ROSTER WON THE M'fing SUPER BOWL JUST THREE F'ING YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY GOD!!!!!!!!!

C. Every free agent that gets signed makes less money available to sign (or extend) somebody else on your roster. It is BRILLIANT for Thompson to continually look at the roster and get the most bang for the buck on the CAP space. By extending players, he IS... and it's not debatable, he IS saving CAP space down the road.

D. For the second straight season the Packers are killed with injuries and they won the division and played the Niners dead even in the playoffs. How is that NOT a fact that any logical humane being would consider when analyzing the Packer's roster, and hence, the need for free agent spending?!!! Of course, WTF would we expect when the Packers just WON THE F'ING SUPER BOWL THREE YEARS AGO And....AND are the 5th winningest team under Thompson!!!!!!! If THAT doesn't speak volumes about this entire debate, what will?

E. Do you want to go *** for tat on this? You list your top 20 free agent signing to try to prove your point. For every one you list, I'll list 10 that ended up being horrible signings!!! BUT AGAIN... people like you can't even think that far in advance! You really and truly can't comprehend how eating the final years on a free agent contract KILLS a CAP. Yet, that is EXACTLY what happens in most free agent signings! ...or at the very least, they are getting grossly over-paid in their final years!

F. What, in the name of God, would make anti-Ted people like you think that if our roster was healthy, we WOULD'NT still be playing right now!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? THIS is the most frustrating part of hearing you guys squak!!! San Fran snuck out of Green Bay with a last second win, despite 75% of our opening day roster being on the I.R.. AGAIN I will ask, how exactly does any logical person think, "ooooh, ya, we need to TOTALLY rethink this mess". ? I mean....seriously![/quote]

You just don´t get that I´m not asking Ted to break the bank to sign a free agent but sign some guys to reasonable contracts to improve the safety and ILB position.

BTW not a single player on the Niners roster is averaging more than $7.5 million a year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

LMMFAO!!!! WHAT?????? "Nothing to do with signing free agents"?

Honestly... you really...and I mean REALLY should not even begin to debate this roster-CAP issue if you honestly believe that.

Well, would you please list the contracts the Niners and Seahawks handed out to other teams free agents which will result in cap troubles for them.