unrealistic expectations

[PFanCan]

Maybe the question is, would Packer fans rather mortgage the future for a better shot at one Superbowl, or win the division and get in the playoffs every year ...

That's a fair question, and hopefully you would agree that there is no correct answer. My preference is certainly to remain a contender every year, but... there is evidence that having a string of losing years can add up to a juggernaut of a team- if not just for a couple of years. SF, for example. They had some lean seasons recently. Then... boom, loaded with OL and DL high first rounders, they finally found a QB with some talent and leadership and it's off to the races.

Our OL and DL is loaded with lower pedigree talent. Tough to find gems from draft spots 25+ all the time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's a fair question, and hopefully you would agree that there is no correct answer. My preference is certainly to remain a contender every year, but... there is evidence that having a string of losing years can add up to a juggernaut of a team- if not just for a couple of years. SF, for example. They had some lean seasons recently. Then... boom, loaded with OL and DL high first rounders, they finally found a QB with some talent and leadership and it's off to the races.

Our OL and DL is loaded with lower pedigree talent. Tough to find gems from draft spots 25+ all the time.

The Niners actually have only eight former first-round picks on their roster. Two of them have been taken after the Packers selected in the draft (Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree) and three of them have been acquired by trade (Mike Iupati, Joe Staley and Eric Reid).

 

[Jordyruns]

I will say there is a difference between complaining about the team and complaining about the defense. Our record is what it is because of the offense, not the defense. Our offense is typically great, our defense is mediocre at best. Has been for some time now.

I know some people will say that it was not the defenses fault we lost against the 49ers this year and that's true the offense did not look good against a very stout 49ers defense. But it seems like a victory for our defense now is to have them not lose the game for us. When was the last time you could say our defense won a game for the packers? 2010 probably. This is the problem I have is some people seem to think a below mediocre defense year after year is fine. A well thought out and planned big change on the defensive side of the ball needs to happen before the packers can become legit title contenders year in and year out. Again I don't want to make a move for the sake of making a move, but TT should be looking into other options in case a chance for the defense to improve pops up. Otherwise Rodgers prime years are doomed to end up like Favres under Sherman.

 

[NOMOFO]

That's a fair question, and hopefully you would agree that there is no correct answer. My preference is certainly to remain a contender every year, but... there is evidence that having a string of losing years can add up to a juggernaut of a team- if not just for a couple of years. SF, for example. They had some lean seasons recently. Then... boom, loaded with OL and DL high first rounders, they finally found a QB with some talent and leadership and it's off to the races.

Our OL and DL is loaded with lower pedigree talent. Tough to find gems from draft spots 25+ all the time.

I agree there's no right answer. Just opinions. I remember how brutal the 80's were. I don't take for granted what the Packers have been able to do the past 10-15 years. My opinion is that I really like winning games and knowing that my team is going to be in the chase at the end.

 

[rodell330]

I said this earlier and i stand by my comment. Division titles seem to be as far as we can get. The year we won the SB the Bears won the division but that Packers team had some talented players on it.... Both sides of the ball did. This current team is good enough to win the division that's about it. The Vikings are a qb away from being a real threat and the Bears and Lions have already caught up. Imagine how good the Lions could be with a legit head coach? The rest of the division is getting better and it seems as tho the Packers are stuck in neutral.

 

[rodell330]

I agree there's no right answer. Just opinions. I remember how brutal the 80's were. I don't take for granted what the Packers have been able to do the past 10-15 years. My opinion is that I really like winning games and knowing that my team is going to be in the chase at the end.

True, but we can't get seem to get past the first round nowadays.

 

[NOMOFO]

True, but we can't get seem to get past the first round nowadays.

... but 25 other teams can't seem to even get into the playoffs. That is the point.

 

[El Guapo]

The rest of the division is getting better and it seems as tho the Packers are stuck in neutral.

This is the kind of irrational comment that spurs the origins of this thread. The Bears went from 10-6 to 8-8...getting better? The Vikings went from 10-6 to 5-10...getting better? The Lions went from 4-12 to 7-9 but lost 6 of their final 7 and then fired their coach...getting better?

This same load of BS was launched around this forum during free agency. The rest of the division (and league) is getting better through FA and the Packers are stuck in neutral. That's a load of BS! Paper champions. Many of those teams just burdened their caps and didn't get any better. We can do more to improve, and some of it could come through FA, but the current GM's approach has kept the Packers winning throughout his tenure. I value that MUCH more than an occasional SB trophy.

 

[raj34]

I'm not in the "blow the entire team up; fire everybody" camp (is anybody? seems like a straw man to me...) but I will say that our being "division champs" this year has way more to do with Detroit completely imploding than the efforts of our team.

8-7-1, a NEGATIVE point differential, four straight losses to the niners, and a bottom of the league defense isn't anything to get complacent about. This organization needs a little shakeup. Nothing dramatic, but there should be some tweaks:

1. consider moving to a 4-3, 3-4 hybrid.

More flexibility on the defense is needed. Prime example is the way Perry was "developed" in his rookie year. Compare and contrast with how the niners converted Aldon Smith to OLB. His rookie year they brought him along slowly in the base D, and used him primarily as a pass rusher. The Packers on the other hand insisted on throwing everything all at once at Perry. Will anybody ever forget how clueless he looked his rookie year?

We also have a lot of twitchier DL like Worthy, Neal, Jones, Daniels, (even Raji), that would probably benefit from more "jet" calls, than "2 gap and wrestle with the OL and let the inimitable Brad Jones and AJ Hawk flow to the ball" calls.

2. Thompson: stop whiffing on defensive picks.

Not really a plan, more of a hope.

3. Sign some warm bodies at safety and possibly DL and ILB.

Any random, cheap free agent could help us.

4. Fire the strength and conditioning staff.

I don't believe that our continuing insane injury problems are 100% bad luck. Maybe 80% bad luck, but not 100%. Our players can't stay healthy, and they stay hurt too damn long. Is the S&C staff accountable for their performance like everybody else, or do they have tenure?

4. Continue to get more physical on offense.

McCarthy did a tremendous job this year setting the tone early with the running game and following through on his promise to run the ball. Not really a plan either, just an observation. Wanted to end on a positive note. This past season wasn't all bad.

 

[rodell330]

This is the kind of irrational comment that spurs the origins of this thread. The Bears went from 10-6 to 8-8...getting better? The Vikings went from 10-6 to 5-10...getting better? The Lions went from 4-12 to 7-9 but lost 6 of their final 7 and then fired their coach...getting better?

This same load of BS was launched around this forum during free agency. The rest of the division (and league) is getting better through FA and the Packers are stuck in neutral. That's a load of BS! Paper champions. Many of those teams just burdened their caps and didn't get any better. We can do more to improve, and some of it could come through FA, but the current GM's approach has kept the Packers winning throughout his tenure. I value that MUCH more than an occasional SB trophy.

Congratulations?? Nothing wrong with division titles. OCCASIONAL SB trophy huh? that's the problem. The team is winning yes but 1 SB appearance isn't good enough for me sorry. The last three/four tries in the playoffs have been terrible exits.. two of which we were at home..and won alot of games.

 

[El Guapo]

We know that it's Super Bowl or bust for you rodell. That's well documented

 

[NOMOFO]

This is the kind of irrational comment that spurs the origins of this thread. The Bears went from 10-6 to 8-8...getting better? The Vikings went from 10-6 to 5-10...getting better? The Lions went from 4-12 to 7-9 but lost 6 of their final 7 and then fired their coach...getting better?

This same load of BS was launched around this forum during free agency. The rest of the division (and league) is getting better through FA and the Packers are stuck in neutral. That's a load of BS! Paper champions. Many of those teams just burdened their caps and didn't get any better. We can do more to improve, and some of it could come through FA, but the current GM's approach has kept the Packers winning throughout his tenure. I value that MUCH more than an occasional SB trophy.

Do we have a place to nominate post of the year? This could not have been said better! AMEN Brotha!!!

It's very frustrating dealing with a season ending loss. It makes it even harder when Packer fans don't deal in facts. Anyone suggesting that the rest of the division got better is just-not-paying-attention.

The Bears are about to nuke some big name contracts and attempt to get their CAP back in line, after over-paying free agents.

The Lions just took, by what most experts talked about this summer, as their "big shot at it all" this season. There is now little in Detroit to look forward to and really no reason at all to think they're ready to knock the Packers down the ladder.

Minnesota? LMAO. Talk about a train wreck. I called this one 5 years ago when instead of working on their QB issues, they endlessly put it off for what they thought was "their year". That is a classic team to point to for what NOT to do to your NFL team! All of their best players are just another year older and more hurt and there is NOTHING to make me think they are ready to sniff a winning season any time soon.

 

[ivo610]

As I said, this is the Niners 3rd straight NFC Title game.
In that same timespan, we've not won a single #playoff game.
And they've eliminated us the past 2 years.
Who's been the true title contenter among the 2?
We thought all along it was us.

#Solo win over Joe Webb's Minnesota Vikings officially counts, but that's it.

But they havent won a title. Would you rather win a title or be this eras eagles? Well see when they have to pay that tool of a QB? I cant imagine a guy that loves to kiss his biceps will make any mistakes with millions and millions of dollars.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Lions just took, by what most experts talked about this summer, as their "big shot at it all" this season. There is now little in Detroit to look forward to and really no reason at all to think they're ready to knock the Packers down the ladder

Maybe you missed it, but the Lions fired the jerk that coached this team. They have a lot of talent on the roster and if they get a decent coach who is capable of putting a disciplined team on the field they'll be scary.

 

[ivo610]

I'm not in the "blow the entire team up; fire everybody" camp (is anybody? seems like a straw man to me...) but I will say that our being "division champs" this year has way more to do with Detroit completely imploding than the efforts of our team.

8-7-1, a NEGATIVE point differential, four straight losses to the niners, and a bottom of the league defense isn't anything to get complacent about. This organization needs a little shakeup. Nothing dramatic, but there should be some tweaks:

1. consider moving to a 4-3, 3-4 hybrid.

More flexibility on the defense is needed. Prime example is the way Perry was "developed" in his rookie year. Compare and contrast with how the niners converted Aldon Smith to OLB. His rookie year they brought him along slowly in the base D, and used him primarily as a pass rusher. The Packers on the other hand insisted on throwing everything all at once at Perry. Will anybody ever forget how clueless he looked his rookie year?

We also have a lot of twitchier DL like Worthy, Neal, Jones, Daniels, (even Raji), that would probably benefit from more "jet" calls, than "2 gap and wrestle with the OL and let the inimitable Brad Jones and AJ Hawk flow to the ball" calls.

2. Thompson: stop whiffing on defensive picks.

Not really a plan, more of a hope.

3. Sign some warm bodies at safety and possibly DL and ILB.

Any random, cheap free agent could help us.

4. Fire the strength and conditioning staff.

I don't believe that our continuing insane injury problems are 100% bad luck. Maybe 80% bad luck, but not 100%. Our players can't stay healthy, and they stay hurt too damn long. Is the S&C staff accountable for their performance like everybody else, or do they have tenure?

4. Continue to get more physical on offense.

McCarthy did a tremendous job this year setting the tone early with the running game and following through on his promise to run the ball. Not really a plan either, just an observation. Wanted to end on a positive note. This past season wasn't all bad.

These come across as really general. "stop wiffing on defensive picks", "get more physical", bring in "any random, cheap free agent".

I am all for suggestions, I would just like to see why you think its needed, how it would help, and how it would be implemented. Firing the S&C staff sounds tough and great but they are well regarded around the league, how many injuries do you point a finger at them for? Could it be the scheduling of off season work outs and training camps? Idk but just to fire them to fire them seems sloppy.

Any free agent wont help. I had a gf once that would just shop for the sake of shopping, because it made her feel better I guess. Guess what, when she didnt have a plan she came back with alot of junk.

 

[ivo610]

Maybe you missed it, but the Lions fired the jerk that coached this team. They have a lot of talent on the roster and if they get a decent coach who is capable of putting a disciplined team on the field they'll be scary.

No, they'll continue to be the same old lions unless they fix the pass defense and teach stafford not to throw INTs. Good luck with that. Perennial 7-9 team on avg til that changes

 

[rodell330]

We know that it's Super Bowl or bust for you rodell. That's well documented

I have high standards sorry. We won't win it every year i'm realistic but if wanting to get out the first round is a crime?? I am very guilty.

 

[adambr2]

I said this earlier and i stand by my comment. Division titles seem to be as far as we can get. The year we won the SB the Bears won the division but that Packers team had some talented players on it.... Both sides of the ball did. This current team is good enough to win the division that's about it. The Vikings are a qb away from being a real threat and the Bears and Lions have already caught up. Imagine how good the Lions could be with a legit head coach? The rest of the division is getting better and it seems as tho the Packers are stuck in neutral.

This silly, irrational love for the rest of the division is getting ridiculous. They have "caught up?" The Lions, though talented, are 11-21 in the last 2 years. And they were relatively healthy this year, which is a lot more than we can say for us. The Vikings went from 10-6 to 5-10-1 and they are getting BETTER? That defense is worse than ours! Even when healthier! Yet they're a QB from being a real threat? Laughable. Sure, if you add an Aaron Rodgers to their team they're a legit contender, but that's a lot easier said than done.

The Bears from 10-6 to 8-8. The defense that has long been the soul of their team finally hit the wall this year. Jeffrey emerged to give them a great 1-2 receiver punch, that's about it. On both the Bears and Vikings, you've got elite franchise RB's that have a lot of wear on the tires and are nearing the age where they're going to start hitting a wall. Think that won't hurt them?

We've actually got a better defense already than the Bears or Vikings statistically, so if you didn't enjoy watching our D this year, I'm guessing you wouldn't have enjoyed it much in Minnesota or Detroit either.

Is the grass really THAT green on the other side? Something tells me that if you cheered for the Vikings or Bears, you wouldn't be the voice of reason on their message boards right now telling about how they're headed in the right direction and catching up or caught up, yet here you are telling us that.

 

[rodell330]

No, they'll continue to be the same old lions unless they fix the pass defense and teach stafford not to throw INTs. Good luck with that. Perennial 7-9 team on avg til that changes

At least they make you one dimensional. Our defense can do neither. A good coach could easily turn that team into a 11 win team.

 

[adambr2]

I have high standards sorry. We won't win it every year i'm realistic but if wanting to get out the first round is a crime?? I am very guilty.

You make it sound like we're constantly failing to get out of the first round. You realize this is the first time we've been bounced out in the first round since the 2009 season, right?

 

[rodell330]

This silly, irrational love for the rest of the division is getting ridiculous. They have "caught up?" The Lions, though talented, are 11-21 in the last 2 years. And they were relatively healthy this year, which is a lot more than we can say for us. The Vikings went from 10-6 to 5-10-1 and they are getting BETTER? That defense is worse than ours! Even when healthier! Yet they're a QB from being a real threat? Laughable. Sure, if you add an Aaron Rodgers to their team they're a legit contender, but that's a lot easier said than done.

The Bears from 10-6 to 8-8. The defense that has long been the soul of their team finally hit the wall this year. Jeffrey emerged to give them a great 1-2 receiver punch, that's about it. On both the Bears and Vikings, you've got elite franchise RB's that have a lot of wear on the tires and are nearing the age where they're going to start hitting a wall. Think that won't hurt them?

We've actually got a better defense already than the Bears or Vikings statistically, so if you didn't enjoy watching our D this year, I'm guessing you wouldn't have enjoyed it much in Minnesota or Detroit either.

Is the grass really THAT green on the other side? Something tells me that if you cheered for the Vikings or Bears, you wouldn't be the voice of reason on their message boards right now telling about how they're headed in the right direction and catching up or caught up, yet here you are telling us that.

Ok sir.

 

[rodell330]

You make it sound like we're constantly failing to get out of the first round. You realize this is the first time we've been bounced out in the first round since the 2009 season, right?

Omg i'm not considering a bye getting out of the 1st round. So with that being said you are incorrect.

 

[Powarun]

I only have one unreasonable expectation in the off season, resurrecting Reggie White in his prime and signing a 2008 Charles Woodson. I'd think that would help our D.

Oh wait that can't happen. I think there are a whole bunch of teams that would rather be in the Packers shoes than their shoes. Also it helps to get good draft picks, the problem is the cost to get them. 49ers are a great example of it.

 

[adambr2]

Omg i'm not considering a bye getting out of the 1st round. So with that being said you are incorrect.

Got it.

Everyone, just to let you know, per Rodell, playing in the divisional round doesn't count if you earned a first round bye in the regular season to get there. It is still the theoretical "1st round", it is only the pretend divisional round.

 

[adambr2]

At least they make you one dimensional. Our defense can do neither. A good coach could easily turn that team into a 11 win team.

How many times have your 11 win Lions made it to the divisional round since 2009? Or since 1993, for that matter?