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Thompson/McCarthy Backup QB Experiment to Blame

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I didn't even know Hasselbeck wanted to come here like that.
    But so did Steven Jackson (who's been hurt and flopped) and so did, does Tony Scheffler.

    Ted just doesn't outbid teams for free agents. We all know this.
    He's not a good salesman, for whatever reasons.

    Even Woodson and Pickett, they had no other options really.

    I wonder why the Colts wanted an experienced backup when they already had their stud QB now in Luck.
    Why would a playoff team with a great young QB want a backup like that?
    And why wouldn't a playoff team with a great QB like us want a backup like that?

    Was one team's GM smarter than the other, or exactly a tie?

    Bottom line is Hasselback has not been needed yet.
    And when Wallace was counted on, he failed. And then hurt himself being chased.
     
  2. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I believe Adam Vinetari was offered more than what they were offering Longwell

    Lavat arrington was offered more then he got from the Giants.. He wanted to play vs the East..So while it may not have happened in a while, the Pack have outbid other teams

    Wallace went 5 for 5.. I can say with almost 100% certainty he wouldnt have tossed those bad int like Scott...one game and he is a failure is not giving hima chance. More like mind made up that he would suck no matter what.

    I think we would have beat the Giants for sure with Wallace
     
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  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I think Matt going to Colts had more to do with a solid vet helping Luck more than anything
     
  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I read the comments in the Hasslebeck link, I needed that for good laughs
     
  5. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    As I KEPT ON MENTIONING You do not put in a fresh rookie at this time. You put in someone who has experience under his belt.
    Today's game proved that once and for all.
    Flynn starts and we would have beat the Vikings.
    0 INTs, and he threw it in for a TD.
    How many TDs has Tolzien thrown?

    Flynn had better start against Detroit to give us the best chance at winning.
    And did you see how the D-Fence came alive after Flynn went in?
    Mike is a big time moron for not starting Flynn earlier.
    And by earlier, I mean against NY.
     
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  6. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I am pretty sure I have said it...He wouldnt start Scott if he felt Matt gave us the better option..No way no how..

    Why is it some posters believe MM was stupid? Again, he isnt doing it out of spite, ego, or anything..

    He didnt play him for a specific reason...We may never know.But MM would have played him if he felt he was the better option
     
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  7. melvin dangerr

    melvin dangerr Cheesehead

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    I think the one thing TT might have considered was hiring a Offensive Cordinator (don't hammer me with who) but that could have been considered, he needs to have a overall view of his game plan, if not, than he should get 2 play cards, and start calling defensive plays as well…………….
     
  8. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I think MM has control over the coaches
     
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  9. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    EXACTLY.
    We didn't need a young QB and see what he shows.
    Flynn was a better option than Seneca Wallace all along, from the moment Oakland let him go.

    90% of you guys would have scooped Flynn up there and then, and he would have been ready the moment Rodgers collar bone cracked. And we'd probably be 8-3 right now, maybe 7-4.

    We all make mistakes, even at our jobs or school, or sports.

    This was OBVIOUSLY a mistake, to not take back the proven good backup for us.
    What was that, ego?
    Or that thing where Teddy hates taking guys in who had been tainted (on other organizations playing)?
     
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  10. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I hope they learn from this mistake.

    I will give props to Ted for bringing back Flynn.
     
  11. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I dunno man.
    Part of me thinks that it could have been just partly or a little bit of ego.
    Look at the history of all the great/famous QBs we have had. Starr, Favre and Rodgers.
    The first two were part of losing Packers teams and two different coaches developed them and turned them into winners.
    And then it was Mike's turn to do that with Air-Run.
    And then he tried it with Tolzien.
    Fine to do that but this was the wrong time. Is Mike just trying to fit in with that history or to give them the best chance at playoffs?
    If you have an old clunker that breaks down every 10 miles and you have a brand new car and you're going on a cross country trip, which one do you take? The one you rely on.
    At least he did recognize in time for today's game to put in Flynn instead.
    Mike was impressed with Tolzein's work ethic and preparation. That may have had something to do with feeling like Tolzein was the better option.
    Yeah, I agree with you that Mike probably did feel like Tolzein was the better QB to start. But why? He was just a rookie while Flynn knows the playbook, this offense and has been in these situations before.
    Mike should have known better.
    He's the head coach. Or are we asking too much from him?

    What's done is done and all we can do is move on and hope that Flynn starts in Detroit if our star QB isn't back.
     
  12. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    The only reason wallace was 5/5 before he came up lame on that scramble was: Jordy nelson basically had to climb a ladder and go up high to save wallace's butt and made a great catch. James Jones had to reach backwards for a poorly thrown ball that was well behind him...Jones saved his butt from an INT. .....and then 3 dink/dunk short high % passes to the check down guy. In no way was is 5/5 a performance worthy of keeping him around.....WR's saved his butt and then he came up lame duck. He needs to pack his sh!t.[/quote]
     
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  13. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Here's what a lot of fans don't understand:
    McCarthy can call a play, beit for Tolzein or Flynn, or Rodgers.

    At the LOS (that's Line Of Scrimmage), the QB has to do 2 very important things. A) He must diagnose the defense. B) He must then call the correct play (they usually have 2 options to go with based on what the defense shows).
    These 2 steps are VERY IMPORTANT. It takes time. Time in the film room. And time playing real live games, that count. In preseason, defenses don't scheme like they do in real games.

    Then after A) and B), the QB must execute, and go to the right receiver...... ALL THAT AIN'T EASY.
    QB's with a lot more talent, and arm strength, have crashed, burned, and failed from the NFL because they can't read & react to all the confusing moving parts, at the same time as they got 900 pounds of pissed off maniacs trying to break their collar bone or break their legs.

    Tolzein might have the better arm, and foot speed, but he has no clue yet what the hell he is doing regarding A) and B), and it was my personal opinion that THIS TEAM DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO LET HIM LEARN ON THE FLY RIGHT NOW.

    Flynn has already grasped this WITH THIS OFFENSE.

    I think it's safe to see that we all learned this yesterday. It was night and day...... MM even gave Tolzein one drive after halftime..... and he was doing it with a hot Eddie Lacy and a defense that's focus was stopping #27 first.
    Why Tolzein threw 6 passes to James Jones being covered by a good Xavier Rhodes, but only threw 2 to Jordy against a bad CB.... that amazes me.
    That's not on McCarthy.
     
  14. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

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    How was the movie?
     
  15. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    [/quote]

    You and your damn facts!
     
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  16. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    Its ALL about processing the situation and making quick decisions. Flynn can do that well within this offense. That is also why McCown is doing well with the bears.
     
  17. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Favre wasn’t part of a losing season until 2005, his 14th season as a Packer. McCarthy has already developed Rodgers into one of the best QBs in the league and won a title, why anyone would think his decision-making over the past few weeks has had anything to do with Starr and Favre is beyond me.
    It was Flynn who McCarthy developed and had right out of college and; Tolzien is in his third NFL year. If McCarthy was thinking about “his turn to do” what he did with Rodgers, that would apply to Flynn much more than Tolzien.

    I don’t know why fans try to apply selfish motives not in the best interest of the team to the actions of McCarthy – and Thompson for that matter. Both obviously want the Packers to succeed as least as much as fans. Their jobs and reputations are on the line. Did we all see Tolzien’s accuracy throwing the long ball vs. the Giants? McCarthy probably thought with another week of work, he’d be able to not only do that but avoid the mistakes he made in that game.

    For those of you who believe McCarthy and Thompson are only, or mostly, interested in boosting their egos, what would provide more of a boost than winning another championship? Like everyone else they make mistakes but I know of no objective evidence that would suggest they are not acting in the best interest of the Packers to achieve that goal.
     
  18. hanskristoffkarl

    hanskristoffkarl Cheesehead

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    MM and TT are either monu-mentally egotistical or profoundly stupid. They have botched the back-up QB situation for 2-3 years. They held on to Harrell forever and then ditched Harrell and Young just before regular season to pick up Wallace and Tolzien? After Rodgers was hurt and it was made clear he would be out at least a month, wouldn't a competent duo have immediately brought Flynn in for a physical and a work out? Or consider bringing back Young? Or even look at Te-Blow (at least he's a winner)? Anyone who has ever watched Wallace knows that at best he is mediocre. Regarding Tolzien, he was an above average QB on a team that neglects the position. So they finally bring in Flynn - better late than never. But they still start Tolzien against the ViQueens. Stupidity or arrogance? You tell me. Can anyone answer this most pertinent question: Why did MM give Tolzien another series in the second half?
     
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  19. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    A) I would say "stubborn" fits even more than egotistical or stupid. They are not stupid. Yeah I guess egotistical appears to fit a little too, but mostly stubborn.

    B) There's the stubbornness part, regarding Harrell.

    C) That would have been wise, logical, but would have admitted they might have erred with their longshot gambles on Seneca and Tolzien.

    D) Tebow... probably a distraction too big for the small town of Green Bay to handle? I love Tebow, but he's an even worse thrower of the ball than Vince Young is...... but he would have fared better than Tolzien and Wallace obviously. They provided nothing but L's for us.

    E) Calling Wallace "mediocre" is very Christmas-like generous. I thought I read he had the WORST W-L record of any QB in the NFL with at least 20 starts.... or something like that.

    F) That alone admits it. The smart fans, and the ESPN and NFL Network fans who SAID THIS THE NIGHT RODGERS GOT HURT, were right.
    Some said this back in Sept (or early Oct) when the Raiders released him.

    G) Both perhaps, but to answer your question about why another series in the second half, here's my guess at how, why that occurred.
    Halftime, private conversation: McCarthy to Thompson: "Look, I gave Scott the start as you asked, and it's not working, it's terrible out there. I'm going with Matt while there's still time.".
    Thompson back: Give Scott one more series and I think he'll get it going, but if not, fair enough, bring your guy Flynn in."
     
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    look at Josh Mcnown stats till this year...Mirrors Wallace's but Wallace had better ratings I believe..
     
  21. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoJo01.htm

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WallSe00.htm

    LTF: You are somewhat correct. McCown has played for 3 years longer and has MANY more "games started" than wallace so that right there will throw off the stats totals. Both are turds IMO, but I think that McCown has a better head on his shoulders and does not play scared like wallace does. McCown also appears to have a better learning curve ability and can read defenses better.
     
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  22. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Was McClown also out of football for over a year, before this season's salvation project?
    I honestly don't know, just asking.
     
  23. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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  24. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Sorry, I just don't get all this love for Wallace. :confused:
     
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  25. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    To me, some fans on here were unfair in their judgement without really seeing what he could do with a week of practice.

    And I don't get all the love for Tolzien.
    I was feeling really doubtful, even though he made that awesome TD run, against the Vikes.
    Then when I saw Flynn going out there, I gave a cheer and was feeling a breath of fresh air and thinking that he was going to go out there and do it. Which he did. But the defense and players not knowing that the game can end in a tie is why we didn't win, IMO.
     

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