1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Thompson/McCarthy Backup QB Experiment to Blame

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,985
    Ratings:
    +1,010
    That's the million dollar question brother. Is Flynn ready? i would think he would be after two weeks and already knowing the playbook. If Tolzien has outplayed him in practice fine but practice? come on man, we talkin bout practice? not a game, practice. (Allen Iverson) Tolzien has done some great thing's don't get me wrong but i'm still looking at the win/loss column and theres still a big fat 0 there. I can assure you if this was not such a critical point in the season or just pre-season you wouldn't hear near the fuss. Unfortunately it's not..and the fans have become impatient..at least i have. If Flynn was to go in and stunk it up then i'd be all for Tolzien getting the starts until Rodgers came back but i don't know how good of an option flynn would be because he hasn't had a chance. If Tolzien is bad against minnesota will MM have the cojones to pull him in favor of Flynn? i vote no. He will count on Capers defense to bail out the poor guy..we all have seen the results of that smh.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,834
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    I saw Vince Young making first downs while running the ball in the preseason games or moving the ball downfield when the other back ups couldn't get it done.

    You are right that we have no idea how Flynn is doing in practice.
    Flynn has more games won than Tolzein as a Packer.
    I am relying on the past of what he has done and maybe that isn't right either.
    How else can I look at what gives us the greatest hope though when our latest starter has yet to win a game?

    With Air-Run we were always so sure of a very good chance at winning.
    Without and whoever is starting there is all sorts of doubt.
    I won't feel good about Tolzien until he wins a game.

    Sometimes, like others on here, my emotions take over without really thinking or looking at things.
    As Tom Petty once sang, the waiting is the hardest part. That was about relationships and I'm using that as waiting for the return of Air-Run as well as another win.

    It is also frustrating to me because Mike keeps on putting in the new kid instead of a QB with experience which Wallace (Not Mike's fault for what happened.) and Flynn has.
    Because of this, we may never find out if one with experience would have done better than a "rookie."
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977
    I cant phatom a nfl coach stay with the worse option is all...
     
  4. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,755
    Ratings:
    +1,019
    McCarthy certainly know more about his QB's than we do. If he thinks Tolzien is the better option, Tolzien is more than likely the better option.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,985
    Ratings:
    +1,010
    Lol i'm sure Cleveland Browns fans would disagree haha.
     
  6. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977


    With starter Aaron Rodgers resting during the preseason finale Thursday, Young was the Packers' starter against the Kansas City Chiefs. Young completed 14 of 30 passes for 144 yards, with two fumbles, no touchdowns, no interceptions and a passer rating of 61.0. After successfully rushing three times for 39 yards in Green Bay's third preseason game, Young was only able to scramble for 12 yards on three attempts in Kansas City.
     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977
    The Packers are not believed to be interested in re-signing free agent QB Vince Young.
    Young, 30, spent 26 days with the Packers during the summer before being a part of final cut. He completed 20-of-42 preseason passes for 177 yards with zero touchdowns and one lost fumble. It was widely believed that he had sealed up the No. 2 job following the all-important third exhibition game but face-planted in the finale. Young hasn't generated any known interest since. Nov 5 - 9:35 PM
    Source: Ed Werder on Twitter
     
  8. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977
    Those articles are not real glowing that he was able to do to much
     
  9. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,985
    Ratings:
    +1,010
    I'm sure he means the games outside of the Chiefs game as well Young played in...The chiefs have a solid defense so can't expect VY to have lit it up against a bunch of 1st stringers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,834
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    When we lose?????

    Vic is not a Packers fan so he has no idea what we go through.
    He even roots for other teams or players when they play the Pack to break records.

    I like Mike Spofford better.
    He has more football knowledge and doesn't bring up tons of irrelevant points that have nothing to do with the game as Vic does.

    http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...m-to-run/f24f82e8-92d7-47ba-ba9b-98d603391bb8
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  11. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,936
    Ratings:
    +3,031
    So some here admit they have no idea how Flynn has looked in practice but want him to start Sunday. Some here at least hint they think McCarthy is just being stubborn or wanting “his” guy even though he apparently knows Flynn would be the better option. (And even though two of “his guys” were released before the season.) BTW, if Flynn were a “money” player as opposed to a “practice player”, why didn’t he perform better in Oakland and Buffalo?

    The Packers can probably only afford one more loss this season or they’ll miss the playoffs. Thompson, McCarthy, the staff, the players and the person in charge of the laundry realize this. They will do everything they can to win Sunday. If McCarthy thinks Flynn gives them a better chance to win, he’ll put him in. Why wouldn’t he? After all (for some of you) remember, Flynn was McCarthy’s guy before Tolzien was.

    BTW, and this is obviously not important at this point of this season but my guess is they’ve found the backup QB for the next few years. My guess is it’s Tolzien because of his arm strength, dedication, and smarts. He needs the work of McCarthy’s QB camp and he’ll get it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,985
    Ratings:
    +1,010
    I'm inspiered by your post sir haha.
     
  13. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,936
    Ratings:
    +3,031
    I guess that's good but it wasn't intended to inspire. Sunday's game will no doubt be a struggle particularly because of the state of the D in general and the D backfield specifically. And I'm certainly not saying Tolzien will lead the Packers to victory. All I'm saying is McCarthy will start and continue to play whoever he considers to be the best QB Sunday.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  14. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,241
    Ratings:
    +2,408
    Wallace's career TD/INT ratio (31/19 = 1.63) is better than Campbell's (82/55 = 1.49). Wallace's decent INT % (2.4) was likely a key statistical support for signing him.
     
  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,241
    Ratings:
    +2,408
    So, if Tolzien throws 3 picks again against the Vikes, will we see Flynn in Detroit, a team he's had some ;) success against?

    MM's vaunted QB camp is a shadow of it's former self thanks to the 2011 CBA's restrictions on off season activities. Besides, other than Rodgers, who has MM developed, CBA or otherwise, that one could call a reliable starter? We thought Flynn was one of those guys but he crashed and burned.

    And using the words "developing" and "Rodgers" in the same sentence is a bit of stretch to begin with...more like "development lite".
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    #1- Vic Ketchman, this is on Packers.com, the official website of the team, his boss. This is like Jay Carney writing an op-ed. You think he's going to second guess Obama?

    #2- Always have complete confidence in coaches. They know what they're doing.
    Really?
    Did Ray Rhodes lead us anywhere other than off a cliff? I loved Les Steckel as a coach.
    How about Matthew's alma mater, USC? Complete confidence in Lane Kiffin, who's been in coaching for so long. He has to know what he's doing.
    Leslie Frazier... all my Viking fans have wanted him out for awhile. My best friend who has ties to the NFL and players, never wanted Frazier in the first place and was disappointed in last year's fluke playoff appearance, because he thought it would cost them in the shorter long run and they'd never get a good coach before Peterson was gone, wasting the Adrian Era.
    But always trust in the coach because fans couldn't possibly know more.
    Don't have to know "more" to be right sometimes.

    #3- Also, there are numerous coaches on a team.
    They aren't always 100% in unison. Not always unanimous in their opinions on a particular player.

    So if the GM wins out over the HC, and a team goes with player B instead of player A, event though the coach thought (although never publicly said that) player A was more ready (hypothetical), does that make you fans wrong in your belief that throwing player B out there is a mistake?

    Fans make mistakes.
    Players make mistakes.
    Coaches make mistakes.
    GM's make mistakes.
    Refs make mistakes.
    Humans...... make mistakes.

    For Ketchman, and some company-line fans to always believe the coach is doing the 100% right thing, that's ridiculous.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977
    True..

    Also true is coaches will play the ones that give the best chance to win..Unless of course the coaches ego is so big he won't
     
  18. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    The one they THINK will give them the best chance to win. I agree with that.

    MM's ego is certainly not a problem.
    I think he's a great coach AND I like him.
    He makes mistakes. He also sometimes probably defers to Thompson, in certain personnel decisions.

    I really wish I knew how the Vince Young being released decision went down.

    My sense is, because Thompson publicly stated something like "Vince not being ready or brought in earlier was my fault"... that makes me almost feel like it was he, TT, who wanted Vince here. And MM didn't think VY was the guy..... and because he looked terrible that last game in KC, MM won out and cast him away.,....because he can't throw the ball like a real QB can.
    Ted fell on that landmine, it would appear to me.

    If my between the lines interpretation there is correct, I blame MM more than TT.
    But I still love MM and really like TT.
     
  19. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,834
    Ratings:
    +2,674
    And Vic thinks that Greg Jennings deserves applause or cheers when he comes out of the tunnel.
    Greg made his bed and now he must lie in it.
    If the fans boo, then he deserves that.
    Vic should realize that. But nope. As you pointed out he will follow the company line.
     
  20. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    That's his employer and he's lucky to have that gig.
    He's not dumb enough to bite the hand that feeds him.

    I hope for 2 big things Sunday.
    A nice Packers win.
    Jennings gets boo'd bigtime and does nothing good. I want him to drop a pass so he can hear that.
     
  21. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977
    Dropping a pass will get cheers
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977
    Just out of curiosity, what made Josh MckNown better than Wallace? Before this year Josh was a loser but now is winning...

    What is the difference now with Josh and the Bears? Surely if Josh could be a good q.b now, Wallace could have been.

    11-24 was his record with any meaningful time playing.. 31% winning

    Wallace 7-17 Wallace

    I dont get the hate for Wallace when his career is almost identical path as Josh
     
  23. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,755
    Ratings:
    +1,019
    Comparing McCarthy to unsuccessful coaches really doesn't make sense. Since the Packers have won a lot more under him than they've lost, obviously the vast majority of his decisions have worked out.

    Also, he did not say he trusts coaches to be 100% correct. Just that he trusts them make the decision they think is best and for fans to think they know enough to make informed decisions about the team doesnt make sense. Yes, the coaches informed decision could turn out wrong, but as fans we don't have nearly enough information to determine things like who the QB should be.
     
  24. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    I didn't advocate signing Josh.
    I advocated signing the three Matt's, or staying with Young, or even Tebow.
    I do love Josh though, since he did this, which was my favorite non-Packer game NFL moment of all time.
    I'll always cherish this moment because it knocked the Vikings out, and us into, the playoffs.

     
  25. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977

    Matt wasnt coming here...Again, here is the article stating that...

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/matt...llace-will-improve-b99137819z1-231098671.html

    You really still havent answered my main question...Neither has @Sunshine885500

    Josh was a loser up until this year..

    Why wouldnt have Wallace turned out okay with MM instructing him? Lord knows he has to be better any q/b coach the Bears have.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/319898-seneca-wallace-or-matt-hasselbeck

    article from 2010

    We heard at least 2 out of 3 of those same issues..

    Last part I have said more than once..New OC and right players around him..

    I just cant understand why people harp on Wallace being a loser of completion % is low.. Those are the SAME issues Josh Mcknown had before this year..And now he is 4-0 or 5-0 this year.
     

Share This Page