Thompson/McCarthy Backup QB Experiment to Blame

rodell330

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And do you think MM isnt aware of the losses and every VALID point you just made?

We can agree he does..

So why wouldnt he want to fix it? Just because of ego? Or is Matt really ready?

That's the million dollar question brother. Is Flynn ready? i would think he would be after two weeks and already knowing the playbook. If Tolzien has outplayed him in practice fine but practice? come on man, we talkin bout practice? not a game, practice. (Allen Iverson) Tolzien has done some great thing's don't get me wrong but i'm still looking at the win/loss column and theres still a big fat 0 there. I can assure you if this was not such a critical point in the season or just pre-season you wouldn't hear near the fuss. Unfortunately it's not..and the fans have become impatient..at least i have. If Flynn was to go in and stunk it up then i'd be all for Tolzien getting the starts until Rodgers came back but i don't know how good of an option flynn would be because he hasn't had a chance. If Tolzien is bad against minnesota will MM have the cojones to pull him in favor of Flynn? i vote no. He will count on Capers defense to bail out the poor guy..we all have seen the results of that smh.
 
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Forget Favre

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Everyone I have heard that covers the Packers for a living all say Vince looked terrible in camp...So what did you see that showed promise?

I asked @rodell330 how Matt has looked in practice, but no answer...Maybe you know how he has done in practice since both of you know he is better than Scott?

That isnt being a smart a@@, but if Flynn is better as this point, the coaches would be starting him..
I saw Vince Young making first downs while running the ball in the preseason games or moving the ball downfield when the other back ups couldn't get it done.

You are right that we have no idea how Flynn is doing in practice.
Flynn has more games won than Tolzein as a Packer.
I am relying on the past of what he has done and maybe that isn't right either.
How else can I look at what gives us the greatest hope though when our latest starter has yet to win a game?

With Air-Run we were always so sure of a very good chance at winning.
Without and whoever is starting there is all sorts of doubt.
I won't feel good about Tolzien until he wins a game.

Sometimes, like others on here, my emotions take over without really thinking or looking at things.
As Tom Petty once sang, the waiting is the hardest part. That was about relationships and I'm using that as waiting for the return of Air-Run as well as another win.

It is also frustrating to me because Mike keeps on putting in the new kid instead of a QB with experience which Wallace (Not Mike's fault for what happened.) and Flynn has.
Because of this, we may never find out if one with experience would have done better than a "rookie."
 
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Carl

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McCarthy certainly know more about his QB's than we do. If he thinks Tolzien is the better option, Tolzien is more than likely the better option.
 

longtimefan

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I saw Vince Young making first downs while running the ball in the preseason games or moving the ball downfield when the other back ups couldn't get it done.

"



With starter Aaron Rodgers resting during the preseason finale Thursday, Young was the Packers' starter against the Kansas City Chiefs. Young completed 14 of 30 passes for 144 yards, with two fumbles, no touchdowns, no interceptions and a passer rating of 61.0. After successfully rushing three times for 39 yards in Green Bay's third preseason game, Young was only able to scramble for 12 yards on three attempts in Kansas City.
 

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The Packers are not believed to be interested in re-signing free agent QB Vince Young.
Young, 30, spent 26 days with the Packers during the summer before being a part of final cut. He completed 20-of-42 preseason passes for 177 yards with zero touchdowns and one lost fumble. It was widely believed that he had sealed up the No. 2 job following the all-important third exhibition game but face-planted in the finale. Young hasn't generated any known interest since. Nov 5 - 9:35 PM
Source: Ed Werder on Twitter
 

rodell330

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With starter Aaron Rodgers resting during the preseason finale Thursday, Young was the Packers' starter against the Kansas City Chiefs. Young completed 14 of 30 passes for 144 yards, with two fumbles, no touchdowns, no interceptions and a passer rating of 61.0. After successfully rushing three times for 39 yards in Green Bay's third preseason game, Young was only able to scramble for 12 yards on three attempts in Kansas City.

I'm sure he means the games outside of the Chiefs game as well Young played in...The chiefs have a solid defense so can't expect VY to have lit it up against a bunch of 1st stringers.
 

Forget Favre

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Today's ask Vic article as a perfect response to this:

"Vic, you are the coach this week. Who do you start at QB and why? I like the veteran Flynn, who has seen a little more action. I think so many fans are on the fence."

"I have complete confidence in the coaches; I always have. It’s nonsensical for me to believe I know more about their football team than they do. If fans would adopt that attitude, I think they would experience less frustration and more enjoyment in watching games. The coaches know what they’re doing. They’ve spent their lives preparing teams to play football games. This is not the time of the year to audition talent. This game is a must win. You go with the people you believe give you the best chance of victory. I trust the coaches are doing that." - Vic Ketchman
When we lose?????

Vic is not a Packers fan so he has no idea what we go through.
He even roots for other teams or players when they play the Pack to break records.

I like Mike Spofford better.
He has more football knowledge and doesn't bring up tons of irrelevant points that have nothing to do with the game as Vic does.

http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...m-to-run/f24f82e8-92d7-47ba-ba9b-98d603391bb8
 
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TJV

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So some here admit they have no idea how Flynn has looked in practice but want him to start Sunday. Some here at least hint they think McCarthy is just being stubborn or wanting “his” guy even though he apparently knows Flynn would be the better option. (And even though two of “his guys” were released before the season.) BTW, if Flynn were a “money” player as opposed to a “practice player”, why didn’t he perform better in Oakland and Buffalo?

The Packers can probably only afford one more loss this season or they’ll miss the playoffs. Thompson, McCarthy, the staff, the players and the person in charge of the laundry realize this. They will do everything they can to win Sunday. If McCarthy thinks Flynn gives them a better chance to win, he’ll put him in. Why wouldn’t he? After all (for some of you) remember, Flynn was McCarthy’s guy before Tolzien was.

BTW, and this is obviously not important at this point of this season but my guess is they’ve found the backup QB for the next few years. My guess is it’s Tolzien because of his arm strength, dedication, and smarts. He needs the work of McCarthy’s QB camp and he’ll get it.
 

rodell330

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So some here admit they have no idea how Flynn has looked in practice but want him to start Sunday. Some here at least hint they think McCarthy is just being stubborn or wanting “his” guy even though he apparently knows Flynn would be the better option. (And even though two of “his guys” were released before the season.) BTW, if Flynn were a “money” player as opposed to a “practice player”, why didn’t he perform better in Oakland and Buffalo?

The Packers can probably only afford one more loss this season or they’ll miss the playoffs. Thompson, McCarthy, the staff, the players and the person in charge of the laundry realize this. They will do everything they can to win Sunday. If McCarthy thinks Flynn gives them a better chance to win, he’ll put him in. Why wouldn’t he? After all (for some of you) remember, Flynn was McCarthy’s guy before Tolzien was.

BTW, and this is obviously not important at this point of this season but my guess is they’ve found the backup QB for the next few years. My guess is it’s Tolzien because of his arm strength, dedication, and smarts. He needs the work of McCarthy’s QB camp and he’ll get it.

I'm inspiered by your post sir haha.
 

TJV

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I'm inspiered by your post sir haha.
I guess that's good but it wasn't intended to inspire. Sunday's game will no doubt be a struggle particularly because of the state of the D in general and the D backfield specifically. And I'm certainly not saying Tolzien will lead the Packers to victory. All I'm saying is McCarthy will start and continue to play whoever he considers to be the best QB Sunday.
 
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HardRightEdge

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So, if Tolzien throws 3 picks again against the Vikes, will we see Flynn in Detroit, a team he's had some ;) success against?

MM's vaunted QB camp is a shadow of it's former self thanks to the 2011 CBA's restrictions on off season activities. Besides, other than Rodgers, who has MM developed, CBA or otherwise, that one could call a reliable starter? We thought Flynn was one of those guys but he crashed and burned.

And using the words "developing" and "Rodgers" in the same sentence is a bit of stretch to begin with...more like "development lite".
 
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FrankRizzo

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"I have complete confidence in the coaches; I always have. It’s nonsensical for me to believe I know more about their football team than they do. ....... The coaches know what they’re doing.......... I trust the coaches are doing that." - Vic Ketchman

#1- Vic Ketchman, this is on Packers.com, the official website of the team, his boss. This is like Jay Carney writing an op-ed. You think he's going to second guess Obama?

#2- Always have complete confidence in coaches. They know what they're doing.
Really?
Did Ray Rhodes lead us anywhere other than off a cliff? I loved Les Steckel as a coach.
How about Matthew's alma mater, USC? Complete confidence in Lane Kiffin, who's been in coaching for so long. He has to know what he's doing.
Leslie Frazier... all my Viking fans have wanted him out for awhile. My best friend who has ties to the NFL and players, never wanted Frazier in the first place and was disappointed in last year's fluke playoff appearance, because he thought it would cost them in the shorter long run and they'd never get a good coach before Peterson was gone, wasting the Adrian Era.
But always trust in the coach because fans couldn't possibly know more.
Don't have to know "more" to be right sometimes.

#3- Also, there are numerous coaches on a team.
They aren't always 100% in unison. Not always unanimous in their opinions on a particular player.

So if the GM wins out over the HC, and a team goes with player B instead of player A, event though the coach thought (although never publicly said that) player A was more ready (hypothetical), does that make you fans wrong in your belief that throwing player B out there is a mistake?

Fans make mistakes.
Players make mistakes.
Coaches make mistakes.
GM's make mistakes.
Refs make mistakes.
Humans...... make mistakes.

For Ketchman, and some company-line fans to always believe the coach is doing the 100% right thing, that's ridiculous.
 

longtimefan

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Fans make mistakes.
Players make mistakes.
Coaches make mistakes.
GM's make mistakes.
Refs make mistakes.
Humans...... make mistakes.

True..

Also true is coaches will play the ones that give the best chance to win..Unless of course the coaches ego is so big he won't
 
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FrankRizzo

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True..

Also true is coaches will play the ones that give the best chance to win..Unless of course the coaches ego is so big he won't
The one they THINK will give them the best chance to win. I agree with that.

MM's ego is certainly not a problem.
I think he's a great coach AND I like him.
He makes mistakes. He also sometimes probably defers to Thompson, in certain personnel decisions.

I really wish I knew how the Vince Young being released decision went down.

My sense is, because Thompson publicly stated something like "Vince not being ready or brought in earlier was my fault"... that makes me almost feel like it was he, TT, who wanted Vince here. And MM didn't think VY was the guy..... and because he looked terrible that last game in KC, MM won out and cast him away.,....because he can't throw the ball like a real QB can.
Ted fell on that landmine, it would appear to me.

If my between the lines interpretation there is correct, I blame MM more than TT.
But I still love MM and really like TT.
 

Forget Favre

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#1- Vic Ketchman, this is on Packers.com, the official website of the team, his boss. This is like Jay Carney writing an op-ed. You think he's going to second guess Obama?

#2- Always have complete confidence in coaches. They know what they're doing.
Really?
Did Ray Rhodes lead us anywhere other than off a cliff? I loved Les Steckel as a coach.
How about Matthew's alma mater, USC? Complete confidence in Lane Kiffin, who's been in coaching for so long. He has to know what he's doing.
Leslie Frazier... all my Viking fans have wanted him out for awhile. My best friend who has ties to the NFL and players, never wanted Frazier in the first place and was disappointed in last year's fluke playoff appearance, because he thought it would cost them in the shorter long run and they'd never get a good coach before Peterson was gone, wasting the Adrian Era.
But always trust in the coach because fans couldn't possibly know more.
Don't have to know "more" to be right sometimes.

#3- Also, there are numerous coaches on a team.
They aren't always 100% in unison. Not always unanimous in their opinions on a particular player.

So if the GM wins out over the HC, and a team goes with player B instead of player A, event though the coach thought (although never publicly said that) player A was more ready (hypothetical), does that make you fans wrong in your belief that throwing player B out there is a mistake?

Fans make mistakes.
Players make mistakes.
Coaches make mistakes.
GM's make mistakes.
Refs make mistakes.
Humans...... make mistakes.

For Ketchman, and some company-line fans to always believe the coach is doing the 100% right thing, that's ridiculous.
And Vic thinks that Greg Jennings deserves applause or cheers when he comes out of the tunnel.
Greg made his bed and now he must lie in it.
If the fans boo, then he deserves that.
Vic should realize that. But nope. As you pointed out he will follow the company line.
 
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FrankRizzo

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And Vic thinks that Greg Jennings deserves applause or cheers when he comes out of the tunnel.
Greg made his bed and now he must lie in it.
If the fans boo, then he deserves that.
Vic should realize that. But nope. As you pointed out he will follow the company line.
That's his employer and he's lucky to have that gig.
He's not dumb enough to bite the hand that feeds him.

I hope for 2 big things Sunday.
A nice Packers win.
Jennings gets boo'd bigtime and does nothing good. I want him to drop a pass so he can hear that.
 

longtimefan

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That's his employer and he's lucky to have that gig.
He's not dumb enough to bite the hand that feeds him.

I hope for 2 big things Sunday.
A nice Packers win.
Jennings gets boo'd bigtime and does nothing good. I want him to drop a pass so he can hear that.

Dropping a pass will get cheers
 

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http://packersinsider.com/?p=6117

Key points:

  • Seneca Wallace has always been a loser (record-wise, as well as throwing ability). Was out of football for
Just out of curiosity, what made Josh MckNown better than Wallace? Before this year Josh was a loser but now is winning...

What is the difference now with Josh and the Bears? Surely if Josh could be a good q.b now, Wallace could have been.

11-24 was his record with any meaningful time playing.. 31% winning

Wallace 7-17 Wallace

I dont get the hate for Wallace when his career is almost identical path as Josh
 

Carl

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#1- Vic Ketchman, this is on Packers.com, the official website of the team, his boss. This is like Jay Carney writing an op-ed. You think he's going to second guess Obama?

#2- Always have complete confidence in coaches. They know what they're doing.
Really?
Did Ray Rhodes lead us anywhere other than off a cliff? I loved Les Steckel as a coach.
How about Matthew's alma mater, USC? Complete confidence in Lane Kiffin, who's been in coaching for so long. He has to know what he's doing.
Leslie Frazier... all my Viking fans have wanted him out for awhile. My best friend who has ties to the NFL and players, never wanted Frazier in the first place and was disappointed in last year's fluke playoff appearance, because he thought it would cost them in the shorter long run and they'd never get a good coach before Peterson was gone, wasting the Adrian Era.
But always trust in the coach because fans couldn't possibly know more.
Don't have to know "more" to be right sometimes.

#3- Also, there are numerous coaches on a team.
They aren't always 100% in unison. Not always unanimous in their opinions on a particular player.

So if the GM wins out over the HC, and a team goes with player B instead of player A, event though the coach thought (although never publicly said that) player A was more ready (hypothetical), does that make you fans wrong in your belief that throwing player B out there is a mistake?

Fans make mistakes.
Players make mistakes.
Coaches make mistakes.
GM's make mistakes.
Refs make mistakes.
Humans...... make mistakes.

For Ketchman, and some company-line fans to always believe the coach is doing the 100% right thing, that's ridiculous.

Comparing McCarthy to unsuccessful coaches really doesn't make sense. Since the Packers have won a lot more under him than they've lost, obviously the vast majority of his decisions have worked out.

Also, he did not say he trusts coaches to be 100% correct. Just that he trusts them make the decision they think is best and for fans to think they know enough to make informed decisions about the team doesnt make sense. Yes, the coaches informed decision could turn out wrong, but as fans we don't have nearly enough information to determine things like who the QB should be.
 
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FrankRizzo

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Just out of curiosity, what made Josh MckNown better than Wallace? Before this year Josh was a loser but now is winning...

What is the difference now with Josh and the Bears? Surely if Josh could be a good q.b now, Wallace could have been.

11-24 was his record with any meaningful time playing.. 31% winning

Wallace 7-17 Wallace

I dont get the hate for Wallace when his career is almost identical path as Josh
I didn't advocate signing Josh.
I advocated signing the three Matt's, or staying with Young, or even Tebow.
I do love Josh though, since he did this, which was my favorite non-Packer game NFL moment of all time.
I'll always cherish this moment because it knocked the Vikings out, and us into, the playoffs.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!
 

longtimefan

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I didn't advocate signing Josh.
I advocated signing the three Matt's, or staying with Young, or even Tebow.


Matt wasnt coming here...Again, here is the article stating that...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/matt...llace-will-improve-b99137819z1-231098671.html

When the veteran quarterback was released by the Tennessee Titans in March, he thought of Green Bay. Hasselbeck was "very, very interested" in signing with the Packers. But the Titans caught him off guard. He was out of the country, on vacation, and he had surpassed his allotted minutes on his AT&T cellphone package. Hasselbeck was forced to use his daughter's phone.

And the Colts persisted ... persisted ... and persisted. They made "three strong pushes" and Hasselbeck was off the market in less than 24 hours. Green Bay never had a chance.

You really still havent answered my main question...Neither has @Sunshine885500

Josh was a loser up until this year..

Why wouldnt have Wallace turned out okay with MM instructing him? Lord knows he has to be better any q/b coach the Bears have.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/319898-seneca-wallace-or-matt-hasselbeck

article from 2010

Here is the criticism I hear all the time about Seneca Wallace:
1) He cannot win games.
2) He cannot see over the offensive line.(wont really mention this)
3) He has bad accuracy.

We heard at least 2 out of 3 of those same issues..

He did pretty good filling in for the legendary Matt Hasselbeck last season. He finished the season strongly with 1532 yards, 11 touchdowns and only 3 interceptions.

Wallace’s accuracy isn’t great but he brings a whole other dimension to his game to make him just as lethal and make up for his accuracy. His mobility. He is always a threat to go on the run, has excellent break out speed and the only Quarterback’s who could give him a run for his money in a foot race in the NFL is probably Mike Vick, Vince Young

I’m not saying Seneca Wallace is better then Matt Hasselbeck, or he should even be the starting QB,

I still think Wallace is a unique and talented player with the right Offensive Coordinators and right players around him .

Last part I have said more than once..New OC and right players around him..

I just cant understand why people harp on Wallace being a loser of completion % is low.. Those are the SAME issues Josh Mcknown had before this year..And now he is 4-0 or 5-0 this year.
 

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