Thompson/McCarthy Backup QB Experiment to Blame

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FrankRizzo

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Seneca Wallace had the worst W-L record of anyone they could have possibly grabbed.
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Seneca, with his poor track record and the fact that nobody wanted him for over a year, was not a mistake to depend on?
Yes you can't blame them for the #3 QB being Tolzein, I guess.

But that original backup QB plan was a failure and many of you, us said that at the immediate time about Seneca Wallace. We just hoped we'd be proven wrong, or that it wouldn't even matter again.

By the way, trading up and taking Clay Matthews was all-time brilliant, one of the 10 most genius moves in a draft in history IMO. That was Teddy.
Taking Randall Cobb and Jordy Nelson and Greg Jenning were all brilliant as well, especially since he got Jennings in a deal with NE that got him an extra pick, with them taking a different WR (Chad Jackson) with our earlier pick and them him taking Jennings later.

Being the one who accepted the free-falling Rodgers also was smart.
Getting Eddie Lacy a round later than most of us wanted to take him, was also brilliant.

I don't hate TT at all and just pointed out how many great moves he made.

But that doesn't mean I have to lie to myself and say he didn't make a mistake, a big one, by banking on a career-horsecrap backup QB in Seneca Wallace, when there were many better options available.
 

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Seneca Wallace had the worst W-L record of anyone they could have possibly grabbed.
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Seneca, with his poor track record and the fact that nobody wanted him for over a year, was not a mistake to depend on?
Yes you can't blame them for the #3 QB being Tolzein, I guess.

But that original backup QB plan was a failure and many of you, us said that at the immediate time about Seneca Wallace. We just hoped we'd be proven wrong, or that it wouldn't even matter again.

By the way, trading up and taking Clay Matthews was all-time brilliant, one of the 10 most genius moves in a draft in history IMO. That was Teddy.
Taking Randall Cobb and Jordy Nelson and Greg Jenning were all brilliant as well, especially since he got Jennings in a deal with NE that got him an extra pick, with them taking a different WR (Chad Jackson) with our earlier pick and them him taking Jennings later.

Being the one who accepted the free-falling Rodgers also was smart.
Getting Eddie Lacy a round later than most of us wanted to take him, was also brilliant.

I don't hate TT at all and just pointed out how many great moves he made.

But that doesn't mean I have to lie to myself and say he didn't make a mistake, a big one, by banking on a career-horsecrap backup QB in Seneca Wallace, when there were many better options available.

Poor track record... nobody wanted him... mistake to depend on...

wait a minute, are you talking about Vince Young?
 
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Here's a very interesting article, from last week of THIS August 23rd, which is the tail end of NFL preseason. THIS season.

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http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/49ers-quarterbacks-preseason-vikings-seneca-wallace-scott-tolzien/

The third preseason game is usually the point during the exhibition season when the starters show what they can do for the longest period of time, but the 49ers have a finite number of snaps and a new five-quarterback rotation with the addition of Seneca Wallace.........

......They just need quarterbacks who can move the ball, something Colt McCoy and Scott Tolzien have struggled to do throughout training camp........
 

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...ce-young-doesnt-understand-why-hes-not-in-nfl
Vince Young doesn't understand why he's not in NFL

Vince Young NFL career starting record: 31-19
Seneca Wallace
NFL career starting record: 6-16

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WallSe00.htm
You argue against Wallace bc no one wanted him yet post a link showing Vince young being confused on why no one wants him... You see the contradiction right? Fact is, professionals all over the league said young isn't worth even a spot as a 3rd stringer. The packers wanted to double check and decided against him.

Hard to argue for or against what Wallace might of done seeing as he is injured.
 

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Seneca Wallace had the worst W-L record of anyone they could have possibly grabbed.
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Seneca, with his poor track record and the fact that nobody wanted him for over a year, was not a mistake to depend on?
Yes you can't blame them for the #3 QB being Tolzein, I guess.

But that original backup QB plan was a failure and many of you, us said that at the immediate time about Seneca Wallace. We just hoped we'd be proven wrong, or that it wouldn't even matter again.

By the way, trading up and taking Clay Matthews was all-time brilliant, one of the 10 most genius moves in a draft in history IMO. That was Teddy.
Taking Randall Cobb and Jordy Nelson and Greg Jenning were all brilliant as well, especially since he got Jennings in a deal with NE that got him an extra pick, with them taking a different WR (Chad Jackson) with our earlier pick and them him taking Jennings later.

Being the one who accepted the free-falling Rodgers also was smart.
Getting Eddie Lacy a round later than most of us wanted to take him, was also brilliant.

I don't hate TT at all and just pointed out how many great moves he made.

But that doesn't mean I have to lie to myself and say he didn't make a mistake, a big one, by banking on a career-horsecrap backup QB in Seneca Wallace, when there were many better options available.

Who were the better options? Not trying to argue your point. Just wondering who they were.
 
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You argue against Wallace bc no one wanted him yet post a link showing Vince young being confused on why no one wants him... You see the contradiction right? Fact is, professionals all over the league said.....
I don't care what the professionals say.
The professionals are often wrong, as are coaches.

I coached.
I made personnel decisions.
Sometimes, I probably erred.

Kurt Warner was deemed by the professionals not worthy of being drafted. Were they right or wrong?

Then years later, he became a magician out of nowhere, and 1999 he went from nobody to MVP.

A few years later, the professional Rams gave up on him. Were they right or wrong?

Then the Giants brought him in..... and he did okay but not great. Then they let him go for Eli. Right or wrong?
Nobody else, professionals, wanted him.

So the Cardinals brought him in.

He took them to the Super Bowl in 2008.
Then he beat us, sliced us up, in the 2009 playoff game like nobody ever.... ball barely hit the ground.
He beat Rodgers.

There are a lot of errors in judgment.

Tim Tebow and Vince Young cannot throw better than I can. I'll take my arm over them thank you.
But they battle and they have won a lot of close football games.
That's demonstrated.

How good as Tennessee done after Young left?
They went to Jake Locker with a 1st round pick.
How's that worked better than what Young gave them?
Prettier passes maybe?

I always prefer ugly WINS to pretty LOSSES.

You all thought Young had made our team as backup QB, even after that Chiefs game.
It was a shock, and I think it was an overreaction to one game at a good Chiefs team.
But then again, we'll never know because they went with Seneca instead. All I know is that, for various reasons, failed.
 
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Who were the better options? Not trying to argue your point. Just wondering who they were.
Depends by your definition of "better".
Mine is more wins. Not more yards passing or stronger arm.
Wins baby, nothing more.

Young, 3 Matt's (Hasselbeck, Moore, Cassel), and yes Tebow, who has been clutch as well as an ugly thrower.

They went with Harrell all year last year, I don't know why they didn't stick with Young.

49ers tried Wallace and Tolzien.

Lotta castaways, but I think Young's career W-L record speaks for itself.
 

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Kurt Warner was deemed by the professionals not worthy of being drafted. Were they right or wrong?

Then years later, he became a magician out of nowhere, and 1999 he went from nobody to MVP.

A few years later, the professional Rams gave up on him. Were they right or wrong?

Then the Giants brought him in..... and he did okay but not great. Then they let him go for Eli. Right or wrong?
Nobody else, professionals, wanted him.

So the Cardinals brought him in.

He took them to the Super Bowl in 2008.
Then he beat us, sliced us up, in the 2009 playoff game like nobody ever.... ball barely hit the ground.
He beat Rodgers.


You all thought Young had made our team as backup QB, even after that Chiefs game.
It was a shock, and I think it was an overreaction to one game at a good Chiefs team.
But then again, we'll never know because they went with Seneca instead. All I know is that, for various reasons, failed.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoJo01.htm

Josh has been with the Bears for three years now

His brother played under the Bears coach and told Josh you will love this guy...Josh had many OC and finally has a system and coach that helps him

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoJo01/gamelog//

2003 he was 1-4 and the one win was that haul marry to beat the Viks and put the Pack in the playoffs

2004 most playing time he won 6 lost 8

2005 3 and 4

2007 2 and 6


2011 which was his 1st Chicago year he went 1-2 with 59% completion with 2 tds and 4 int..But 1st game he only tossed 2 passes yet one was intercepted

Even with him doing well in Chicago, he is still under 59% completion. Which is something I have heard to gauge Wallce by. Rating is under 74

This is why I said Wallace MAY have worked..Just because he didnt win elsewhere sometimes it just takes the right system to help.
 
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This is why I said Wallace MAY have worked..Just because he didnt win elsewhere sometimes it just takes the right system to help.
Wallace may have worked, we'll never know other than what we saw against Chicago when he took over with a 3-point lead, and came away with the L.
Bottom line.

It definitely wasn't young Brett taking over for injured Don in 1992 vs the undefeated Cincinnati Bengals under Boomer Esiason.
 

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I always look at the back up QB position like this.
How many teams can say they have an adequate back up at the most important position in football?
You lose your starting QB for a long period of time your team is in a world of hurt. There are a few exceptions of course, but majority of times the team falters.
 

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I always look at the back up QB position like this.
How many teams can say they have an adequate back up at the most important position in football?
You lose your starting QB for a long period of time your team is in a world of hurt. There are a few exceptions of course, but majority of times the team falters.
You do realize that our respective teams are in the same boat.
We are not used to these losing streaks after so many winning ones. Especially at Lambeau and especially after one winning QB after another.
I think we were expecting Ted to bring in a good back up to follow the likes of Flynn.
It's a real head scratcher why we have what we do.
 

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You do realize that our respective teams are in the same boat.
We are not used to these losing streaks after so many winning ones. Especially at Lambeau and especially after one winning QB after another.
I think we were expecting Ted to bring in a good back up to follow the likes of Flynn.
It's a real head scratcher why we have what we do.

I don't think it's head scratcher. Flynn was a 7th rounder who developed into a solid back up. Harrell was signed and Coleman was drafted in the 7th round in hope to develop one of them. Neither of them worked just like most draft picks and undrafted free agents signings.
 

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I don't think it's head scratcher. Flynn was a 7th rounder who developed into a solid back up. Harrell was signed and Coleman was drafted in the 7th round in hope to develop one of them. Neither of them worked just like most draft picks and undrafted free agents signings.
By "head scratcher" I mean why we ended up with these back ups that we got when others were, IMO, showing more promise in pre-season like Vince Young.
And they bring back Flynn who has won games for us before and they insist on starting Tolzein?
I can hear Vince yelling from beyond, "Just what the hell is going on out there!!"

I agree with the headline and parts of the linked article in the OP.
This is not the time to be experimenting with new QBs when the season is on the line.
 

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http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoJo01.htm

Josh has been in the Bears system for three years now

His brother played under the Bears coach and told Josh you will love this guy...Josh had many OC and finally has a system and coach that helps him

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoJo01/gamelog//

2003 he was 1-4 and the one win was that haul marry to beat the Viks and put the Pack in the playoffs

2004 most playing time he won 6 lost 8

2005 3 and 4

2007 2 and 6

2011 which was his 1st Chicago year he went 1-2 with 59% completion with 2 tds and 4 int..But 1st game he only tossed 2 passes yet one was intercepted

Even with him doing well in Chicago, he is still under 59% completion. Which is something I have heard to gauge Wallce by. Rating is under 74

This is why I said Wallace MAY have worked..Just because he didnt win elsewhere sometimes it just takes the right system to help.


The statement about wallace "may" work in our system....... Not after just a few weeks of time. He CLEARLY does not have the tools to be even a mid level QB, so even if MM could have worked with him all of training camp and pre-season, given his sketchy history, he would still have been a bust even in our system. He is getting up in "football age" as well. I remember he used to at least have a set of wheels and could run, but now even those wheels seem to have gone flat. Over all, he was one of the worst choices and seems uncoachable as of now, kinda like the old dog new tricks thing.
 

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By "head scratcher" I mean why we ended up with these back ups that we got when others were, IMO, showing more promise in pre-season like Vince Young.
And they bring back Flynn who has won games for us before and they insist on starting Tolzein?
I can hear Vince yelling from beyond, "Just what the hell is going on out there!!"

I agree with the headline and parts of the linked article in the OP.
This is not the time to be experimenting with new QBs when the season is on the line.

Everyone I have heard that covers the Packers for a living all say Vince looked terrible in camp...So what did you see that showed promise?

I asked @rodell330 how Matt has looked in practice, but no answer...Maybe you know how he has done in practice since both of you know he is better than Scott?

That isnt being a smart a@@, but if Flynn is better as this point, the coaches would be starting him..
 

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I coached.
I made personnel decisions.
Sometimes, I probably erred.
LOL, ya you probably did and your pee wee team will never forgive you. Unless you coached at a major college, and you didn't, comparing that to the NFL is silly.
 

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Depends by your definition of "better".
Mine is more wins. Not more yards passing or stronger arm.
Wins baby, nothing more.

(Hasselbeck,

Matt wanted to come here but Titans made it impossible to turn down,,, exact words GB nevver had a chance...

I posted thst article on the forum
 

longtimefan

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The statement about wallace "may" work in our system....... Not after just a few weeks of time. He CLEARLY does not have the tools to be even a mid level QB, so even if MM could have worked with him all of training camp and pre-season, given his sketchy history, he would still have been a bust even in our system. He is getting up in "football age" as well. I remember he used to at least have a set of wheels and could run, but now even those wheels seem to have gone flat. Over all, he was one of the worst choices and seems uncoachable as of now, kinda like the old dog new tricks thing.
Why did Josh with the Bears change??

Exact same scenario...


Why was he able to turn from career loser with under 59% completion to what we see with the bears now
 

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Everyone I have heard that covers the Packers for a living all say Vince looked terrible in camp...So what did you see that showed promise?

I asked @rodell330 how Matt has looked in practice, but no answer...Maybe you know how he has done in practice since both of you know he is better than Scott?

That isnt being a smart a@@, but if Flynn is better as this point, the coaches would be starting him..


Scott Tolzien threw Matt Flynn a going away party..but it was intercepted and returned for a touchdown haha. Anyways lol, You know i don't have the answer to this question..however who's to say MM isn't being his normal stubborn self and just sticking with Tolzien just because he's more than likely going to be the #2 guy going forward and he doesn't want to hurt his confidence as Flynn is prolly just an rent-a-qb at this point? that's probably the case, but it by no means makes Tolzien the better option.
 

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Scott Tolzien threw Matt Flynn a going away party..but it was intercepted and returned for a touchdown haha. Anyways lol, You know i don't have the answer to this question..however who's to say MM isn't being his normal stubborn self and just sticking with Tolzien just because he's more than likely going to be the #2 guy going forward and he doesn't want to hurt his confidence as Flynn is prolly just an rent-a-qb at this point? that's probably the case, but it by no means makes Tolzien the better option.


He rather be stubborn with "his" guy then to win..

That is what you are saying??
 

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Scott Tolzien threw Matt Flynn a going away party..but it was intercepted and returned for a touchdown haha. Anyways lol, You know i don't have the answer to this question..however who's to say MM isn't being his normal stubborn self and just sticking with Tolzien just because he's more than likely going to be the #2 guy going forward and he doesn't want to hurt his confidence as Flynn is prolly just an rent-a-qb at this point? that's probably the case, but it by no means makes Tolzien the better option.

Today's ask Vic article as a perfect response to this:

"Vic, you are the coach this week. Who do you start at QB and why? I like the veteran Flynn, who has seen a little more action. I think so many fans are on the fence."

"I have complete confidence in the coaches; I always have. It’s nonsensical for me to believe I know more about their football team than they do. If fans would adopt that attitude, I think they would experience less frustration and more enjoyment in watching games. The coaches know what they’re doing. They’ve spent their lives preparing teams to play football games. This is not the time of the year to audition talent. This game is a must win. You go with the people you believe give you the best chance of victory. I trust the coaches are doing that." - Vic Ketchman
 

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He rather be stubborn with "his" guy then to win..

That is what you are saying??

Well yes and no..and heres what i mean. Tolzien is 0-2 as the starter and still wet behind the ears in the playbook. He's got a big arm yes, he's thrown for a bunch of yds yes..but has he won any games? No. Has the offense scored many points? No. The win loss stat is more important then the amount of yds he's thrown for. Flynn may not have the big arm but he knows the playbook and one thing i can say is the guy put point's on the board and at least won games or kept us close...can't say the same for Tolzien. Oh and btw the defense was bad when Flynn started to. Go figure eh?
 

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Today's ask Vic article as a perfect response to this:

"Vic, you are the coach this week. Who do you start at QB and why? I like the veteran Flynn, who has seen a little more action. I think so many fans are on the fence."

"I have complete confidence in the coaches; I always have. It’s nonsensical for me to believe I know more about their football team than they do. If fans would adopt that attitude, I think they would experience less frustration and more enjoyment in watching games. The coaches know what they’re doing. They’ve spent their lives preparing teams to play football games. This is not the time of the year to audition talent. This game is a must win. You go with the people you believe give you the best chance of victory. I trust the coaches are doing that." - Vic Ketchman

We will revisit this post in a couple of weeks.
 

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Well yes and no..and heres what i mean. Tolzien is 0-2 as the starter and still wet behind the ears in the playbook. He's got a big arm yes, he's thrown for a bunch of yds yes..but has he won any games? No. Has the offense scored many points? No. The win loss stat is more important then the amount of yds he's thrown for. Flynn may not have the big arm but he knows the playbook and one thing i can say is the guy put point's on the board and at least won games or kept us close...can't say the same for Tolzien. Oh and btw the defense was bad when Flynn started to. Go figure eh?

And do you think MM isnt aware of the losses and every VALID point you just made?

We can agree he does..

So why wouldnt he want to fix it? Just because of ego? Or is Matt really ready?
 

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