Thompson/McCarthy Backup QB Experiment to Blame

El Guapo

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To be fair, Flynn has said that he's not wounded but that he just sucks. :D The elbow was only a factor in training camp but not during the season
 

Carl

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Mike Sherman left TT with not much talent. He inherited a team that went 4-12 his first season.

He turned that team into a Super Bowl winner and perennial contender.

Yes, he makes mistakes (as does every GM in the league), but that's results that can't be argued with.
 

rodell330

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So bringing back a wounded Flynn who hasnt played yet isnt admitting anything? Or is there a time line limitation on bringing a guy back, like waiting 2 years is ok? The last thing we needed was another QB with an injury issue, yet we went out and got one. Before I knew of his elbow issues I was more positive about going for him, but now, I think it was a bone headed move. Hey, here is some cash to sit on our bench, join the others.

So you are saying TT bought back a guy who's got a bum elbow and he knows it? Wow..he's more clueless then i thought then. On a more serious note, i still trust Flynn as the better option over Tolzien.
 

rodell330

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Mike Sherman left TT with not much talent. He inherited a team that went 4-12 his first season.

He turned that team into a Super Bowl winner and perennial contender.

Yes, he makes mistakes (as does every GM in the league), but that's results that can't be argued with.


Aaron Rodgers has turned the team into a perennial contender and SB winner. But TT did draft him so i'll give him a little credit ;)
 

Oshkoshpackfan

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So you are saying TT bought back a guy who's got a bum elbow and he knows it? Wow..he's more clueless then i thought then. On a more serious note, i still trust Flynn as the better option over Tolzien.

So, you trust flynn with an elbow problem to throw the long ball better than Tolzein? Tolzein has proven he can throw the long ball, it's the finess throws (back shoulder/touch pass) that he can't make....yet. He still sucks IMO, we are screwed either way we go.
 
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FrankRizzo

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I still have overall issues with all of these TT threads. What is the point? That he F'd up the backup QB position? Are we going to run the guy out of town on a rail? A) Seriously, what is the point?......

Nobody has ever said that he was perfect, but there are folks like Rodell, Rizzo, Bus Cook, and others that are B) always looking to pounce on every misstep of a good GM. That's not how fans behave IMO.

Pointing out that someone made a mistake is fine but to the degree it happens on this forum, C) it makes me wonder the motive of folks. An honest question here - do you want TT fired?
A) Point is he made a big error with the backup QB project, and it's cost us a season.
A2) Alteriar motive is that there are still some fans who refuse to admit any mistakes made.

B) What missteps? I don't pounce over everything. I just think that having just 3 of 51 guys who have any experience in the NFL with any other team, with 13 being the next lowest, that's pretty odd. I've thought we needed veteran presence, leadership, experience back at safety, and clearly at backup QB.

If Rodgers goes down for a season, it doesn't matter. But we always have worried about who can handle a few games if Rodgers goes down for a few games, and having a veteran who can at least know what he's doing is better than having a guy with possible potential who can use a bunch of games to see what he might, perhaps, have.
We're losing games because of that. Games count too much.

C) My motive is just to hear the TT-lovers admit that this was a serious mistake of philosophy at backup QB, which has backfired, and which is the clear primary reason we have lost 3 straight games since Arod went down.

If TT's team really was as talented as his lovers have been saying it was, we wouldn't have lost 3 straight games to once-inferior teams. This was supposed to be the easy part of our schedule.

Remember, when Tom Brady went down with the torn ACL in 2008 game one, Matt Cassel went 11-4 as a starter.... this guy was still available, and we have had plenty of cap space this season.
He won his first start this year, on a terrible Vikings club.

Whatever option you want to rip, hypothetically, it can't be any worse than 0-3. That's the reality.
 

Carl

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A) Point is he made a big error with the backup QB project, and it's cost us a season.
A2) Alteriar motive is that there are still some fans who refuse to admit any mistakes made.

B) What missteps? I don't pounce over everything. I just think that having just 3 of 51 guys who have any experience in the NFL with any other team, with 13 being the next lowest, that's pretty odd. I've thought we needed veteran presence, leadership, experience back at safety, and clearly at backup QB.

If Rodgers goes down for a season, it doesn't matter. But we always have worried about who can handle a few games if Rodgers goes down for a few games, and having a veteran who can at least know what he's doing is better than having a guy with possible potential who can use a bunch of games to see what he might, perhaps, have.
We're losing games because of that. Games count too much.

C) My motive is just to hear the TT-lovers admit that this was a serious mistake of philosophy at backup QB, which has backfired, and which is the clear primary reason we have lost 3 straight games since Arod went down.

If TT's team really was as talented as his lovers have been saying it was, we wouldn't have lost 3 straight games to once-inferior teams. This was supposed to be the easy part of our schedule.

Remember, when Tom Brady went down with the torn ACL in 2008 game one, Matt Cassel went 11-4 as a starter.... this guy was still available, and we have had plenty of cap space this season.
He won his first start this year, on a terrible Vikings club.

Whatever option you want to rip, hypothetically, it can't be any worse than 0-3. That's the reality.

Maybe Wallace was a solid back up? We'll never know because he got hurt quickly. How many teams are three deep at QB? I doubt any.

Also, the same "mistake of a philosophy" of draft and develop has produced many solid QB's who left Green Bay to start somewhere else.

As far as Cassel, he can't even earn his job back after being hurt and it's not like he's behind a stud. Plus, Cassel signed for 7.4 million to possibly start in Minnesota. That's way more than teams like Green Bay should pay for a guy they hope never sees the field.
 
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FrankRizzo

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Maybe Wallace was a solid back up? We'll never know because he got hurt quickly. How many teams are three deep at QB? I doubt any.

Also, the same "mistake of a philosophy" of draft and develop has produced many solid QB's who left Green Bay to start somewhere else.
We didn't draft Wallace, or Graham Harrell, or Vince Young.

What solid quarterbacks left here and started somewhere else successfully?
Mark Brunell, Aaron Brooks, and Matt Hasselbeck.
Those were in the early Favre years, under Ronny Wolf.

Thompson also spent a 2nd round pick on Brian Brohm.
You just never really know with rookies, what you're going to get.

When you already have Rodgers, and a team assembled to win now, you should not be gambling so much with your backup QBs as they were with the washed-up, never-talented, always loser Seneca Wallace, and almost all of you were frightened of the prospect of Graham Harrell taking over, even last year. You were, admittedly, proven right.
 

Carl

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We didn't draft Wallace, or Graham Harrell, or Vince Young.

What solid quarterbacks left here and started somewhere else successfully?
Mark Brunell, Aaron Brooks, and Matt Hasselbeck.
Those were in the early Favre years, under Ronny Wolf.

Thompson also spent a 2nd round pick on Brian Brohm.
You just never really know with rookies, what you're going to get.

When you already have Rodgers, and a team assembled to win now, you should not be gambling so much with your backup QBs as they were with the washed-up, never-talented, always loser Seneca Wallace, and almost all of you were frightened of the prospect of Graham Harrell taking over, even last year. You were, admittedly, proven right.

I'm aware those guys were under Wolf. I was just using it as an example so show that draft and develop can work for the Packers. Flynn was drafted and developed into a solid backup. I know that Brohm and Coleman did not work out, however. I don't think TT gambled with back up QB. He did exactly what the Packers have been doing for 20+ years. Sometimes picks just turn don't turn out though. That's how the draft goes in the NFL.

Anyway, it's not like starting caliber QB's wait around for teams to sign them as a back up. The ones good enough are already starting on other teams. Many teams can't even find one solid QB, yet the Packers were supposed to have found three?
 
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FrankRizzo

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Anyway, it's not like starting caliber QB's wait around for teams to sign them as a back up. The ones good enough are already starting on other teams.
True, but it's funny.
First game, we lost to a heavy underdog that was playing a 34-year old journeyman backup QB in Joshua McCown. Hmm.
Might not be as 'talented' as the youngster Tolzien, but he was better than our 30-something journeyman Seneca Wallace, who had proven in time to not be a winner, and had been out of the league.
Second game, we lost to another team who was playing their non-week-1 starter, who happened to have become good in the past month, they apparently hit on him.

It's not like we lost to Brees, Brady, Peyton, Newton, Luck in those games.

Their backup plans panned out.
 

rodell330

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So, you trust flynn with an elbow problem to throw the long ball better than Tolzein? Tolzein has proven he can throw the long ball, it's the finess throws (back shoulder/touch pass) that he can't make....yet. He still sucks IMO, we are screwed either way we go.

with all the 9/8 in the box defenses we will face going deep all the time isn't going to work all the time..you have got to be able to complete some of the underneath stuff. Besides..Flynn says his elbow is fine... but we will never know until we see him throw a pass deep. Can't do that from the sidelines.
 
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longtimefan

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First game, we lost to a heavy underdog that was playing a 34-year old journeyman backup QB in Joshua McCown. Hmm.
Might not be as 'talented' as the youngster Tolzien, but he was better than our 30-something journeyman Seneca Wallace, who had proven in time to not be a winner, and had been out of the league.
.



http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoJo01.htm

Josh has been in the Bears system for three years now

His brother played under the Bears coach and told Josh you will love this guy...Josh had many OC and finally has a system and coach that helps him

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoJo01/gamelog//

2003 he was 1-4 and the one win was that haul marry to beat the Viks and put the Pack in the playoffs

2004 most playing time he won 6 lost 8

2005 3 and 4

2007 2 and 6

2011 which was his 1st Chicago year he went 1-2 with 59% completion with 2 tds and 4 int..But 1st game he only tossed 2 passes yet one was intercepted

Even with him doing well in Chicago, he is still under 59% completion. Which is something I have heard to gauge Wallce by. Rating is under 74

This is why I said Wallace MAY have worked..Just because he didnt win elsewhere sometimes it just takes the right system to help.
 

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True, but it's funny.
First game, we lost to a heavy underdog that was playing a 34-year old journeyman backup QB in Joshua McCown. Hmm.
Might not be as 'talented' as the youngster Tolzien, but he was better than our 30-something journeyman Seneca Wallace, who had proven in time to not be a winner, and had been out of the league.
Second game, we lost to another team who was playing their non-week-1 starter, who happened to have become good in the past month, they apparently hit on him.

It's not like we lost to Brees, Brady, Peyton, Newton, Luck in those games.

Their backup plans panned out.

First of all, you seem to keep forgetting that the Packers are down to their third string QB. Wallace did not have a bad game against the Bears. Do those teams win with their third guy?

McCown is a 34 year journey man just like you just said. He also has proven to not be a winner. Did you somehow know in the offseason he would play well? The Bears got lucky that he's playing so well. It's easy to say now that's what they should have done.

And Foles was a third round pick drafted to compete for the starting job. He's practiced as the starter for weeks. The Packers should not pick players that high in the draft that they hope never see the field.
 

ivo610

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So everyone is up in arms that TT & MM didnt have a capable 3rd string QB on the roster that could win games? ok just checking.

I am also thrilled to see people blaming him for drafting players that are injured now.

Has no one noticed that we have some of our best players out on offense besides Rodgers? No? Well carry on then
 

ivo610

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You know who has a great back up QB situation? Where you know the back ups (2nd and 3rd string) are just as good as the 1st string? Minnesota.
 

Carl

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People can blame TT and MM all they want for not having a solid third string, but I'd take Rodgers plus Tolzien over a decent starter and decent back up any day (like in Chicago and Philly).
 

rodell330

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People can blame TT and MM all they want for not having a solid third string, but I'd take Rodgers plus Tolzien over a decent starter and decent back up any day (like in Chicago and Philly).

two teams that have beaten us this year..i'm just saying. With backups.
 

longtimefan

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two teams that have beaten us this year..i'm just saying. With backups.

Their back ups have been discussed Josh track record is in plain sight few posts above,,,,


These back ups are quality starters... Which doesnt happen a ton
 

Carl

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two teams that have beaten us this year..i'm just saying. With backups.

I've already addressed that point above if you'd like to try to refute it.

Those two teams are also not contenders with their starters. Rodgers and Tolziens is better than what they have.
 

rodell330

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I've already addressed that point above if you'd like to try to refute it.

Those two teams are also not contenders with their starters. Rodgers and Tolziens is better than what they have.

Not contenders? Isn't Philly leading the East? and the Bears are tied atop of our division? did i miss something?
 

Carl

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Not contenders? Isn't Philly leading the East? and the Bears are tied atop of our division? did i miss something?

Leading a bad divison by default does not mean a team can win the Super Bowl.

Can the Bears compete with Seattle and New Orleans? I don't think so. Can the Packers with Rodgers? Yes
 

ivo610

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Funny thing is, the biggest complaints from teds detractors has been the o line and the running game. Both have been much better this season. Instead of crediting TT with this, the detractors moved on to complain about the 3rd string QB quality
 

rodell330

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Leading a bad divison by default does not mean a team can win the Super Bowl.

Can the Bears compete with Seattle and New Orleans? I don't think so. Can the Packers with Rodgers? Yes


Any given Sunday..any given Sunday. Besides the game is going to be outside in the elments in New york..don't anticipate New Orleans or Seattle scoring a ton of point's. the Bears are very capable of winning an ugly game.
 

Carl

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Any given Sunday..any given Sunday. Besides the game is going to be outside in the elments in New york..don't anticipate New Orleans or Seattle scoring a ton of point's. the Bears are very capable of winning an ugly game.

At this point, the Bears would have to go through Seattle or New Orleans to get to New York. They certainly can't end up playing each other in New York.
 

Forget Favre

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Funny thing is, the biggest complaints from teds detractors has been the o line and the running game. Both have been much better this season. Instead of crediting TT with this, the detractors moved on to complain about the 3rd string QB quality
Hmmmm......
Favre fans reluctantly coming back?

I don't like it either but I also don't pretend to understand it.
Ted had his reasons and football is so unpredictable.
It's another wonky year with us falling, Giants improving, Bears ahead and KC with the most wins.
What's next?
Blaming Ted for all that as well?
He is the scapegoat when things go wrong and on a throne when things go right.
In the end he is only human like the rest of us.
 

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