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Thompson/McCarthy Backup QB Experiment to Blame

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    http://packersinsider.com/?p=6117

    Key points:

    • Seneca Wallace has always been a loser (record-wise, as well as throwing ability). Was out of football for awhile for a reason.
    • Most of you have said for a year-2 that Harrell sucked. I bought into the Kool-Aid, turned out sour. I was wrong, MM was wrong. You were right.
    • I never liked BJ Coleman. What a waste of precious time & resources.
    • Vince Young looked decent or good... until the last preseason game at KC when he sucked, and was shockingly released and then MM/TT went desperado on Wallace. Who has looked good at Kansas City? Even Manning only had one TD against them this week. Even Rodgers lost there in 2011 when we got beaten up.

    There were plenty of other options.
    Better options.
    But not as Thompson-like.

    http://packersinsider.com/?p=6117
     
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  2. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Well.....all true. I stated that before the season got rolling that we should have picked up Jason campbell....while not a super star, he is more than serviceable: Tall, young, athletic, mobile, big arm. I also stated that instead of craphead wallace we should have went and got young back. Hindsight is a muthaf*cka.
     
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  3. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I take issue with several premises in the article:

    1) Calling it a QB experiment is wrong. Did they do something exotic going into training camp? They tried to develop their backups, realized that they failed, and moved on. Oh how the same people would have complained about TT and MM sticking with "their" guys. Accountants have a term called sunk costs. You don't sit around stewing about what you've already invested. You analyze the situation and seek the best outcome moving forward. I think that they tried once it became clear that neither Harrell nor Coleman could lead this team if Rodgers went down. So not an experiment, just recognizing a failure and moving on.

    2) The whole Kansas City Chiefs argument? Really? Is this a pro sports writer at Packers Insider? Does he not understand the basic concept that Young (our 4th string QB) was facing the Chiefs 3rd and 4th string players in the final preseason game? Those are NOT the same guys who went undefeated until last week. As of today, KC has one player on injured reserve and one player on their injury report. That is a big reason why they are still so good. Those final preseason guys that stuffed Young, half of them aren't on the team and the other half have barely seen the field. VY looked bad against nobodies.

    3) The author tries to bolster his weak argument by saying that Green Bay should have picked up Jason Campbell. Again, seriously? Here is a quote from the author, "His career has not gone as planned, and he’s bounced around teams from Washington to Oakland and Chicago last year." How is that ANY different than Seneca Wallace who had done the same thing, except the GM had actual first-hand experience with Wallace. I would have gone with the guy I knew if looking at two relatively equal backup QB options.

    4) Sign Hasselbeck. Brilliant! The Colts signed him for $8 million. Imagine how the same writer would have crucified the Packer brass for signing a high-dollar backup QB when we had Rodgers and Matthews contracts to sign, and many holes that need to be filled.

    5) Tebow? That's how you cap off a backup QB argument? You can't make up how absurd this guy's thinking has become. Tebow is terrible. TERRIBLE. Yes he made a great completion in overtime to beat the Steelers, but the Broncos running game and defense were superb that season. It had little to do with Tebow...

    I can buy the argument that the Packers should have recognized that both Harrell and Coleman were failures sooner. That's pretty clear to all right now. The arguments by the author are mostly ridiculous though
     
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  4. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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  5. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    He wasn't available when the Packers went looking in early September. Again, most recognize that sitting on Harrell and Coleman was a mistake but you can't warp time and pretend that they could have still gotten Campbell.
     
  6. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    He was available during a time window when we were in need and or looking. end of story.
     
  7. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    It's unfair to discount Wallace so quickly when he didn't give us a full game after a week's worth of prep work.
    One of those great "What if..." questions.
    I still think getting rid of Young was a mistake and it's foolish to not start Flynn who IMO is our best chance.

    Oh well.
    We have no control over it.
    It is what it is.
    I'm not usually a praying man but maybe I'll start now because we need all the help we can get. LOL
     
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  8. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Wallace might have been a capable back up. We don't know since he was hurt so soon though.

    Tolzien is the Packers third string guy. I think it's unrealistic to be expect the Packers to be three deep at QB. I bet very few teams are, if any.

    Plus, the Packers draft and develop usually works. It's gotten them a title and they are consistent contenders. Competing with other teams for free agent contracts is not what they do and they especially would not overpay for a back up player.
     
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  9. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I still have overall issues with all of these TT threads. What is the point? That he F'd up the backup QB position? Are we going to run the guy out of town on a rail? Seriously, what is the point?

    We all get it, but I'll defend him because overall he has still been a great GM for the Packers. Nobody has ever said that he was perfect, but there are folks like Rodell, Rizzo, Bus Cook, and others that are always looking to pounce on every misstep of a good GM. That's not how fans behave IMO.

    Pointing out that someone made a mistake is fine but to the degree it happens on this forum, it makes me wonder the motive of folks. An honest question here - do you want TT fired? If so then all of these threads make sense. If not, I'm really perplexed as to why you all get so worked up over the mistakes.

    (Bus Cook need not answer, I know his reply)
     
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  10. Lakedog

    Lakedog Cheesehead

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    Scoreboard!! The rest is just BS.

    You read Thomson's comments... Their plan was to look the other way. "Hope" is not a sound plan for any of us. Why should it be for a FB team?!
     
  11. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    When we win, they are gods.
    When we lose, get rid of them.

    I'm frustrated too and obviously they (MM/TT) have made mistakes that are costing us wins regarding the back up QB.
    Looks like another one could happen without starting Flynn.
    This would be the perfect opportunity. Going up against a team with a worse record could be the key to get his mojo going since Air-Run probably won't be back for Detroit.
    But instead we're going to continue with Interception King Jr.
    I guess they just want to keep on risking taking mistakes. What are they? A bunch of masochists?
    SMH
     
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  12. Lakedog

    Lakedog Cheesehead

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    I'm not convinced TT should be fired, but the reporters that have access to him should be blunt with him and ask the hard questions. More importantly.... You're short-sighted n brain dead if you don't think anyone or any group should not challenge someone or something you're relying on and it's failing. Are you saying we should just sit by cuz TT has had good years and the sucking was okay for a while?! How long do you propose the fans should take some idiot moves and just look back on past successes? Is Rodgers getting any younger or are you ok w 1 SB for him? Compete! Schlitzy
     
  13. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    It's knee jerk reactions to what we as fans are going through right now.
    As for Timmy T-Bag.
    I agree. And to add, when Tim played and won they were beating teams that had similar or worse records than Denver. Something the media was all too eager to overlook.
    We don't them to show any more desperation than they are already showing us now.
     
  14. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Ha. I don't ever remember saying fire TT? yes i have talked about his poor decisions by not having a solid backup on the roster, over paying average players, not wanting free agency help, and some of his draft choices but that is justified imo. If his approach is to draft and develop players then please tell me why we didn't have a guy at the most important position on the team ready in case Rodgers got hurt? tell me why he cut two guy's that had been in the system that he signed? in Harrell and Coleman who wasted roster space. TT lovers please explain this to me. Defend him please.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  15. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    #1 - You're relying on this team? #2 - You can read into it as you want, but I'm not talking about questioning and challenging. I'm talking about crucifying. There is a distinct difference.

    Longer than three games.

    You all act like this is the Browns franchise and we've sucked for years. We are in a three game slump and the youngsters here treat it like an eternity. I think a lot of posters here lack perspective and that's sad. Decades ago fans had a virtue called patience, and it allowed HOF coaches like Chuck Noll and Don Shula to have down years before returning to prominence. It took Landry until his seventh season to have a winning record! The Packers have done very well under the leadership of MM and TT, and most folks here want to throw it all away the moment their favorite team isn't elite. That's short-sighted.
     
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  16. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I never said that you did. I questioned your motives and asked the question.


    Because the point you consistently fail to recognize is that it's impossible to be stacked at every position in the NFL. You were #1 on beating the "we need more defense" drum. You always want the cake and to eat it too. That's not reality in the NFL. It never has been and it never will be, except in your mind.
     
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  17. Terre Haute Cheesehead

    Terre Haute Cheesehead Cheesehead

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    frsarducci.gif
    FF, I've been confessing my "shortcomings" to this guy for a few weeks now and am STILL awaiting an answer to
    my prayer request for a solution to our backup QB woes. I may need a new "go to" guy. Time is running out :confused:
     
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  18. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Sucking was okay for a while? It's been only 3 bad games....

    The other seasons haven't been Super Bowls, but they've been contenders. Nothing a GM does can guarantee a Super Bowl win. The Broncos were the best team in the league last year and a bad defensive play cost them a Super Bowl shot. Also, I don't think the Giants were the best team in the league either year they won it. They just got hot at the right time.

    As long at TT keeps the team contending, I'll remain on his side.
     
  19. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Because the point you consistently fail to recognize is that it's impossible to be stacked at every position in the NFL. You were #1 on beating the "we need more defense" drum. You always want the cake and to eat it too. That's not reality in the NFL. It never has been and it never will be, except in your mind.[/quote]

    Completely agree with El Quapo on this. Every team has its weaknesses.
     
  20. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I heard the Pope is available.
     
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  21. Terre Haute Cheesehead

    Terre Haute Cheesehead Cheesehead

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    What ya' think, FR? He's still out there and looking for a team, isn't he? And available?
    Quickness......speed to make plays with his feet......strong arm.

    VINCE YOUNG?
     
  22. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Yea and he drafted prodominantly defense last year. How has that panned out? It's not like anybody is complaining about the defense after his draft eh? :rolleyes:
     
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  23. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Theres no way TTwould ever bring back VY after cutting him in the same year..that would basicly mean he's admitting to screwing up to Packerland and he seems way to brash to do that. Even tho he did screw up..but we already know that.
     
  24. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    They are going to stick with what they have somehow thinking that it's going to get better.
    Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
     
  25. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    So bringing back a wounded Flynn who hasnt played yet isnt admitting anything? Or is there a time line limitation on bringing a guy back, like waiting 2 years is ok? The last thing we needed was another QB with an injury issue, yet we went out and got one. Before I knew of his elbow issues I was more positive about going for him, but now, I think it was a bone headed move. Hey, here is some cash to sit on our bench, join the others.
     

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