Rodgers own legacy

Mondio

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Kinda makes my point doesn’t it? When it comes to receiving it’s more about the QB and less about who’s catching the ball. If Jones was so great, why didn’t he make the QB look good? (Which is the direct argument above)

How about Jennings? What’s the excuse there?
(I’m secretly hoping you say inferior QB again)
i'm not sure what you're looking for other than to argue? It's a 2 way street. Good QB's are harder to come by than good WR's, but it will always be a 2 way street. I've answered your questions multiple times in this thread and others if you've ever followed what I had to say on the subject.

Jennings was on the downside of his career, he did have a worse QB and what's your point? The QB matters, so does the WR. When your strength as a WR is catch and run, but the QB throws it over your head or in the dirt 50% of the time or you have to stop to catch it, they took away your greatest asset. Are you seriously suggesting a WR makes a QB make better decisions or throw a better ball? Jennings absolutely benefitted from Rodgers being so accurate and knowing where to go with the ball. Of course he did, who would argue that having a ball you can catch and run with, without breaking stride wouldn't benefit the receiver. But if you can't see how many times Jennings just turned guys around on his routes and left them grabbing at air when he was gliding past them on his way for another TD, you're missing half the game.

I never thought Jones was so great any place he was. Why didn't he make Carr better? Carr was a rookie QB on a bad, bad team. Recipe for success right? come on man. are you serious with this? A rookie QB on a bad team has Jones as his best weapon and you're comparing it to a QB that sat for 3 years, was not thrust into starting on a bad team, started on a good and experienced team where a receiver like Jones was his 3rd or 4th best option? anyway, as it stands, Jones stats with a rookie QB on a bad team were pretty much on par with his stats with a HOF QB on a better team. Why didn't Rodgers turn him into 1400 yard 10+ TD and 100+ catch receiver that year.
 

gbgary

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Kinda makes my point doesn’t it? When it comes to receiving it’s more about the QB and less about who’s catching the ball. If Jones was so great, why didn’t he make the QB look good? (Which is the direct argument above)

How about Jennings? What’s the excuse there?
(I’m secretly hoping you say inferior QB again)

he did all he could. everyone thought carr had a good year for rookie, 21/12/3200, on a bad team. the next year he threw 32 td's and was thought to be the second coming. you seem to think jones was all-world. he's a career backup who'd been thrown into starting rolls occasionally. jennings didn't do much when he moved on because he was mostly done. again, if adams was traded to someone right now he wouldn't suddenly become crap. he'd be just as good as he is here. he'd get open and make plays anywhere. he hasn't really hit his peak yet.
 
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PackAttack12

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he did all he could. everyone thought carr had a good year for rookie, 21/12/3200, on a bad team. the next year he threw 32 td's and was thought to be the second coming. you seem to think jones was all-world. he's a career backup who'd been thrown into starting rolls occasionally. jennings didn't do much when he moved on was because he was mostly done. again, if adams was traded to someone right now he wouldn't suddenly become crap. he'd be just as good as he is here. he'd get open and make plays anywhere. he hasn't really hit his peak yet.
111 receptions for 1,386 and 13 TDs....

Not sure he'd do that elsewhere. Just an opinion.
 
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i'm saying those teams weren't as good as GB was, and they had already peaked while they were in GB. they were mostly used up when they moved.

well sure. that was the prime of jennings career. he really established himself that last year with BF in 2007. had a very good year. young, fast, great hands. his targets went from 84 that year to 140 in rodgers first year as a starter and stayed near there the next three years...so yeah his stats would naturally be better. he was the #1.


The main reason those receiverd excelled in Green Bay was having an elite quarterback throw them the ball.

Of course they were talented but it's impossible for a WR to overcome having a less talented QB.

Therefore it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest Rodgers has had multiple bad seasons when taking a look at other teams passers.
 
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111 receptions for 1,386 and 13 TDs....

Not sure he'd do that elsewhere. Just an opinion.
Absolutely. This is not a slight on Davante because it pretty much holds across the board.. I think Davante would be hard pressed to put up those numbers anywhere with very few exceptions. Those exceptions would all be HOF or future HOF level QB.
He’s not going to make Russell Wilson or Joe Flacco (I’m picking on them because they are pretty good but not elite) look better than they are.
 
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Had Aaron Rodgers had the benefit of several top 10 Defenses during the last 8 seasons? the entire conversation about him would hold a different feel. He’s still good enough to get that Lombardi, but possibly not good enough to compensate for an 18th or 20th ranked Defense or the like. Tom Brady himself has never done that btw.

Until we fix this Defense his legacy will always be clouded by suspicion. Just read the last 2 pages of posts it’s already started..I mean, we’re defending Jennings and JJ in a Rodgers legacy thread? We’re sinking to all new levels :laugh:
 
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PackAttack12

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The list of wide receivers who had 100+ receptions, 1,000+ yards, and 10+ touchdowns is as follows:

Antonio Brown
DeAndre Hopkins
Davante Adams

Don't get me wrong...Adams is a fine receiver. But his overall skill set is not comparable to Brown or Hopkins. Adams would be an above average receiver on many teams in the NFL. But the part where he goes from that, to putting up production comparable to the best in the NFL is the Aaron Rodgers effect.
 

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The main reason those receivers excelled in Green Bay was having an elite quarterback throw them the ball.

Of course they were talented but it's impossible for a WR to overcome having a less talented QB.

Therefore it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest Rodgers has had multiple bad seasons when taking a look at other teams passers.
*i'm not taking anything away from rodgers. all i've been saying is it's 50/50. the tandem make each other. you don't get open, you're out. you don't get the ball to the open guy, you're out.

*who's arguing that?

*who's suggesting that?
 

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Absolutely. This is not a slight on Davante because it pretty much holds across the board.. I think Davante would be hard pressed to put up those numbers anywhere with very few exceptions. Those exceptions would all be HOF or future HOF level QB.
He’s not going to make Russell Wilson or Joe Flacco (I’m picking on them because they are pretty good but not elite) look better than they are.
joe flacco is a below average qb. wilson is elite, has been for awhile. last year he was 3rd in qb rating, 3rd in td's, 2nd in td%, 35/7/3448...and that was on a run-heavy team.
 

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his numbers will vary from team to team but he'd still be a #1 on probably all but 5-6 teams. as i said, he'd be just as good as he is here. his ability to get open and catch the ball wouldn't suddenly be gone.
Well yeah. I mean, no one is saying that his abilities suddenly change from team to team. He'll obviously be just as fast, his footwork will be just as good, etc. You're speaking down and dumbing it up blatantly, which isn't really the point.

But all things being equal with a receiver's skill set, certain quarterbacks are able to get receivers better opportunities to catch the football. Certain quarterbacks are able to buy time in the pocket, extend plays, which often leads to even bigger plays. Not all quarterbacks can do that. Rodgers has proven that as a complete package at the quarterback position, no one else has been better for an extended period of time.
 
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joe flacco is a below average qb. wilson is elite, has been for awhile. last year he was 3rd in qb rating, 3rd in td's, 2nd in td%, 35/7/3448...and that was on a run-heavy team.
You’re right he is overall elite. That’s my bad. I like Russell so that was a bad example. His most dangerous asset is he is a true game manager and he is ultra competitive. He’s not a guy you want getting the ball with 2 minutes left and he’s down 6 pts. (Unless you’re a Hawks fan)
 
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Do7

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I don't think you have to bash Jennings or Jones in order to give Rodgers his due.
I don't believe anyone here was, but rather state the fact that Rodgers made them more so than they made Rodgers. I don't see anyone insulting James Jones, as he's a beloved member in Packer Nation. As far as Jennings go, the thing is that some of you are trying to make him better than what he actually was just to try to prove a point.
 

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Well yeah. I mean, no one is saying that his abilities suddenly change from team to team. He'll obviously be just as fast, his footwork will be just as good, etc. You're speaking down and dumbing it up blatantly, which isn't really the point.

But all things being equal with a receiver's skill set, certain quarterbacks are able to get receivers better opportunities to catch the football. Certain quarterbacks are able to buy time in the pocket, extend plays, which often leads to even bigger plays. Not all quarterbacks can do that. Rodgers has proven that as a complete package at the quarterback position, no one else has been better for an extended period of time.
so you agree he'd be just as good. as i said earlier, i don't think he's peaked yet. no one is disputing rodgers' history. just saying the qb/wr thing is 50/50.

as for rodgers' legacy...he'll go down as one of, if not the, most talented qb ever; that we as fans, and the Packers as a team, were lucky to have had him; that for various reasons, outside rodgers' control, the team's success under him didn't meet hopes/expectations.
 

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I don't believe anyone here was, but rather state the fact that Rodgers made them more so than they made Rodgers. I don't see anyone insulting James Jones, as he's a beloved member in Packer Nation. As far as Jennings go, the thing is that some of you are trying to make him better than what he actually was just to try to prove a point.
no one made anyone. it's 50/50. without wr's making plays any qb's pass will be incomplete or intercepted. are you trying to say culpepper made moss...or young/mcnabb made owens...or ben made brown...or eli ffs made obj?
 

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no one made anyone. it's 50/50. without wr's making plays any qb's pass will be incomplete or intercepted. are you trying to say culpepper made moss...or young/mcnabb made owens...or ben made brown...or eli ffs made obj?

Culpepper was good, but Moss elevated him significantly. Young is a bad example considering he had Jerry. But in Mcnabb's case, hell yeah I'd say Owens helped make Mcnabb. Hell I'll even use another example of a receiver making a QB, Megatron and Stafford. Everyone knows that was more Calvin than Stafford.

You just used 2 of the best receivers of all time to make your point but we saw how much of a bonafide stud both Owens and Moss were on seperate teams and with different qb's throwing them the football.

Odell and Brown are tbd, but certainly Odell is help extending Eli's career.
 

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Culpepper was a good QB until he destroyed his knee. and Moss was good. But Moss went to Brady and NE. Hardly a drop off in QB. He didn't do all that great in Oakland. Owens went from Young and Garcia, 2 pretty decent QB's in their own right and then McNabb. I was never all that high on McNabb in the grand scheme of QB's, he's good enough, but not great. I don't think Owens suddenly made him a relevant QB either.
 

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Culpepper was a good QB until he destroyed his knee. and Moss was good. But Moss went to Brady and NE. Hardly a drop off in QB. He didn't do all that great in Oakland. Owens went from Young and Garcia, 2 pretty decent QB's in their own right and then McNabb. I was never all that high on McNabb in the grand scheme of QB's, he's good enough, but not great. I don't think Owens suddenly made him a relevant QB either.
Moss wasn't good, he was great! Defences literally had to make up schemes just to cover that guy and yet he STILL shredded them. He's certainly gave us a fair share of headaches. Young is a HOF so I would use the word decent to describe someone like Garcia. And even still TO still balled no matter who the QB. He went from a HOF to just above average QB's and he still played lights out. Mcnabb's best years were with TO and after their fall out he was never the same guy again.
 
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There are examples of some elite receivers who made QBs look better than they were. Also Vice Versa. There ain’t no 50/50 with rare exception. Not everyone gets a winners trophy.

I’ll stand by my original rebuke to the post above that said WRs made Rodgers look better than he is. That’s a bunch of hogwash. Rodgers makes WR better simply being around him. He’s a generational QB.
 
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*i'm not taking anything away from rodgers. all i've been saying is it's 50/50. the tandem make each other. you don't get open, you're out. you don't get the ball to the open guy, you're out.

*who's suggesting that?

While there's no doubt a wide receiver deserves credit for putting up huge numbers the quarterback deserves more than 50% of it for an elite QB/WR combo in my opinion though.

You should go back and read some of the threads around here with multiple posters criticizing Rodgers for having had several bad seasons.

his numbers will vary from team to team but he'd still be a #1 on probably all but 5-6 teams. as i said, he'd be just as good as he is here. his ability to get open and catch the ball wouldn't suddenly be gone.

While that's true he woulf most likely not have an elite quarterback like Rodgers throwing him the ball resulting in his numbers dropping.
 

PackAttack12

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so you agree he'd be just as good. as i said earlier, i don't think he's peaked yet. no one is disputing rodgers' history. just saying the qb/wr thing is 50/50.

as for rodgers' legacy...he'll go down as one of, if not the, most talented qb ever; that we as fans, and the Packers as a team, were lucky to have had him; that for various reasons, outside rodgers' control, the team's success under him didn't meet hopes/expectations.
We're arguing separate points. How about this...Rodgers makes receivers more productive by getting them more opportunities for yards, catches, touchdowns. Is that good enough? Or are you going to dance around that as well?
 

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