Packers sign Devin Funchess

[HardRightEdge]

Janis had a knack for broken plays though where I havent seen that illustrated much from MVS.

The thing MVS has going for him what he can do, literally no one else on the roster comes close to. His ability to blow the top off the defense is unparalleled. All he has to do is refine the rest of his game to adequate and a guy like that can and will find a roster spot.

While MVS had and has more going for him than Janis ever did, I confess to being wrong in picking him as my favored player to make a jump last season.

The QB mis-fires and stink eyes were too many. Perhaps worse were the few points and nods of approval on the simplest routes, the kind of thing you'd expect in a rookie preseason. His route tree devolved to bubble screens, quick outs, and deep runs, and then sharply declining snaps. I'm not a believer in 3rd. year jumps from guys who have had plenty of chances without showing progress.

I'n not ready to throw in the towel on him entirely, but the outlook is not good. A light could go on, but it's not anything I'd expect or plan for, more a happy accident if it happens.

 

[HardRightEdge]

In looking for GMO "highlights", I found this. Kind of an enjoyable highlight reel of the last regular season.

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I was particularly impressed with that QB, especially how he dropped balls into zone gaps in the only the place they could be caught. Who is that guy? We should maybe look at him as a Rodgers replacement.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I was particularly impressed with that QB, expecially how he dropped balls into zone gaps in the only the place they could be caught. Who is that guy? We should maybe look at him as a Rodgers replacement.

Good eye....I bet we would end up overpaying for a QB like THAT!

 

[HardRightEdge]

Good eye....I bet we would end up overpaying for a QB like THAT!

Either they are all overpaid or none of them are, I'm not sure which.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Either they are all overpaid or none of them are, I'm not sure which.

Without derailing the thread and getting way off track, in light of what is going on currently in the world, I have highlighted my choice of your 2 thoughts, with "they" being a large majority of professional athletes.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Without derailing the thread and getting way off track, in light of what is going on currently in the world, I have highlighted my choice of your 2 thoughts, with "they" being a large majority of professional athletes.

I didn't mean it that way, and don't want to get into that whole discussion. I meant in the context of winning football games.

Seriously, though, if you're out to find the negatives that's what you'll find. Roll a tape of Adams highlights from last year and you'll find even better throws.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The difference between a 62% completion rate and Rodgers' 65% average over the purported GOAT years pre-2018 amounts to 1 incompletion out of 33.3 throws, or one additional per game. And here we are, clamoring for receiving weapons in FA and the draft. Does it occur to anybody there might be a connection? And that is definitely within the confines of this discussion.

Now, if you want to compare current performance to the 2011 high water mark you will of course be disappointed. By the same token, Mahomes will never match his 2018 season for the record books. He threw several loose balls and rarely showed a rocket arm in this most recent playoffs and got away with it. Winning tends to blind one to the negatives which always exist. So, by the standards applied to Rodgers by some, Mahomes will be grossly overpaid for years to come, even if he isn't.

 

[GleefulGary]

To our roster.

Gotcha. I definitely agree then!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Right now Rodgers is tied for the 3rd highest (average salary) paid QB in the NFL, as soon as Prescott signs his deal, he will become the 4th. When you look at what others are making, his pay is now well in line with what he can do. I look at this list and besides guys like Mahomes, who for now are on rookie deals, there really isn't another QB where I think "now that team has a sweat deal." Maybe Brees playing for "only" $25M qualifies, but I think Brees has a lot more tools to work with than Rodgers.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/quarterback/


Give Rodgers a few more decent tools to work with and watch what happens.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm less convinced of that now than prior to free agency, and there's more to that than just Funchess.

We can debate the quality or injury risk with these new players, but Gutekunst has plausibly addressed the highest need positions with veterans with some decent resumes: ILB, RT, and now WR.

He's better positioned for "best player available" across a number of need positions through Day 2 or even into round 4 or 5.

The Packers are still in desperate need of upgrading the receiving corps even after signing Funchess. I would be shocked if Gutekunst doesn't spend one of the team's first three picks on a wide receiver.

This draft class looks like a deep one at WR, but for all those teams and their fans that are convinced that their team is going to draft an instant contributor at WR in rounds 1-3, I think the history of the position should be a cautionary tale.

You continue to ignore the success rookie wide receivers had last season, a draft class that was mostly considered to be a weak one.

https://tinyurl.com/suzaouz

Or they look at stats and say that he can't do it and so they hope he fails (imo).

I highly doubt any poster around here prefers to be correct instead of a player having a positive impact on the Packers.

The other aspect of this move that may be getting lost is that GB is not pigeon holed into getting a WR with their 1st or 2nd day selections.

In my opinion the Packers are still in desperate need of selecting a wide receiver early.

MVS has never really made me feel comfortable. GMo has at least made some damn tough catches to make people think something was there.

While MVS has put up some decent numbers during his first two seasons with the team it seems he wasn't able to make the next step and regressed late last season. He might end up not even making the team next season.

If MVS continues to hone his route running, the dude could be sick....

Unfortunately I'm not convinced MVS is capable of improving his route running.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You continue to ignore the success rookie wide receivers had last season, a draft class that was mostly considered to be a weak one.

When did I ignore last season? I never said we couldn't find a WR that instantly improves our offense. I said we shouldn't solely bank on that to happen. Some here seem to think we could do nothing in the off season, besides use a top pick to draft a WR and the position is fixed. I disagree with that theory and at least Funchess is a step in the right direction.

Again, I have said this over and over, there are many scenarios that could play out.

1. The Packers draft a WR in the first 3 rounds and get an instant contributor.
2. The Packers draft a rookie WR that doesn't catch on right away and takes a few years to mesh with Rodgers and the offense, before becoming a solid WR.
3. The Packers draft a rookie WR and he flops.

Given the history of the position, the Packers should plan for all 3 scenarios, or a combination of. If we already had 2 or 3 solid WR's on the roster, the outcome wouldn't be as critical to the success of the Packers in 2020. Most of my posts on this were before Funchess was signed, his addition to the team should help. I think he will help, but quite honestly, I think it will even take him 5-6 games to start clicking with Rodgers and the Offense. Might be longer if COVID-19 cuts some of the workouts and camps short.

I have to poke you a bit. For a guy that gets on here year after year and preach's that we all need to look at Mason Crosby over his career, not just one season, your seemingly new view on Rookie WR's and basing it off of just 2019, seems contrary to how you view Crosby. Sure more rookie WR's had success last year, than we are probably use to seeing. However, should we now ignore all past data on the position? I think its a slippery slope not to include data from the last 15 years in regards to Rodgers, the Packers offense and rookie WR's.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You continue to ignore the success rookie wide receivers had last season, a draft class that was mostly considered to be a weak one.

https://tinyurl.com/suzaouz

I'm not entirely convinced that one season means the history of rookie wide receivers should be thrown out. Was 2019 a sudden paradigm shift? Because when I look at 2018, it's not quite as impressive. Just because analysts thought a class was weak doesn't mean it actually was, they don't actually know very much about rookies (few ppl do).

 

[Sunshinepacker]

If Packers want a rookie with a good chance to contribute in his rookie year, then they need to sign a guy who has already demonstrated the ability to run good routes. That means guys like Mims, Pittman, Tyler Johnson, or KJ Hill. You could also include Jefferson but I would prefer the other four because they can play slot or outside while Jefferson is going to have be a slot-only guy his rookie season (and maybe his entire career).

 

[Fredrik87]

Definitely a combination of the 2 things, but I can't help to think if the 2020 WR draft class was weak, guys like we have seen snapped up in the last few days, would have been snapped up sooner and at a higher price. Basic Supply/Demand economics. Allison got $2.8 M last year in what was a relatively decent FA market, but a weak draft. I don't know if Funchess is exactly the guy that Gute wanted, but I think he was smart to wait it out a bit and not immediately sign a guy like Cobb ($9M/year). Again, this is hoping that Funchess is right around the same mark as we are seeing with Sharpe and Agholor.

Funny thing....in 2019 Cobb got $5M from Dallas, this year he gets $9M from the Texans. Funchess in 2019 got $10M from the Colts, how much will he get from the Packers?

I agree with everything except using anything the Texans do as a barometer for the rest of the league Bill O'Brien has got to be the dumbest GM in the league right now.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The Packers are still in desperate need of upgrading the receiving corps even after signing Funchess. I would be shocked if Gutekunst doesn't spend one of the team's first three picks on a wide receiver.

If you read further, you'd see I have WR on the needs list for the top 3 rounds. I'm just less convinced now of your contention they will prioritize a rookie WR to assume a #2 target role. In other words, I am less convinced of that player being picked in the first round, and it could be the third round. Other need positions are more in play.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It is being reported that Funchess is singing a 1 year deal with Wilde as the source. No salary details yet.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/f...vin-funchess-gets-one-year-deal-with-packers/

 

[tynimiller]

Unfortunately I'm not convinced MVS is capable of improving his route running.

Hence the exact reason why I said "if". If he doesn't he is worthless to us.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

When did I ignore last season? I never said we couldn't find a WR that instantly improves our offense.

You're trying really hard to overlook that as a possibility though

I have to poke you a bit. For a guy that gets on here year after year and preach's that we all need to look at Mason Crosby over his career, not just one season, your seemingly new view on Rookie WR's and basing it off of just 2019, seems contrary to how you view Crosby. Sure more rookie WR's had success last year, than we are probably use to seeing. However, should we now ignore all past data on the position? I think its a slippery slope not to include data from the last 15 years in regards to Rodgers, the Packers offense and rookie WR's.

First of all the success of rookie wide receivers last season wasn't anything special, actually Diontae Johnson's league leading 59 receptions only ranks 23rd among all rookie wide receivers since 2008 (12 ranked above him were drafted after the first round).

Rodgers never had a rookie receiver drafted in the early rounds near the top of the depth chart, therefore the data regarding him and first year WR isn't of any importance.

It seems he doesn't have any issues trusting an inexperienced receiver as evidenced by undrafted Allen Lazard catching 35 balls for 477 yards in 11 games last season though.

As a side note, I have absolutely no idea why you brought up Crosby in this discussion.

I'm not entirely convinced that one season means the history of rookie wide receivers should be thrown out. Was 2019 a sudden paradigm shift? Because when I look at 2018, it's not quite as impressive. Just because analysts thought a class was weak doesn't mean it actually was, they don't actually know very much about rookies (few ppl do).

As I've posted above the 2019 rookie receiver class actually wasn't anything special compared to past seasons.

You could also include Jefferson but I would prefer the other four because they can play slot or outside while Jefferson is going to have be a slot-only guy his rookie season (and maybe his entire career).

The Packers would be significantly improved by adding a reliable slot receiver as well.

If you read further, you'd see I have WR on the needs list for the top 3 rounds. I'm just less convinced now of your contention they will prioritize a rookie WR to assume a #2 target role. In other words, I am less convinced of that player being picked in the first round, and it could be the third round. Other need positions are more in play.

I saw that you listed wide receiver as one of the biggest needs, just wanted to make it clear once again that the Packers need to draft one early in my opinion.

I'm not advocating for Gutekunst to spend a first round pick on the position no matter what but think he needs to select one with the team's second pick at the latest.

Hence the exact reason why I said "if". If he doesn't he is worthless to us.

I realized that you put an "if" there, my point was that it's a huge question mark with him though.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think it is unrealistic to expect any rookie picked in any of the first 3 rounds to capture anything beyond 3rd receiver status his rookie year. No QB is as unyielding as Rodgers when it comes to deciding which receivers he’ll throw to. A rookie WR is much more likely to put up numbers in any of the 31 other cities.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Rodgers never had a rookie receiver drafted in the early rounds near the top of the depth chart, therefore the data regarding him and first year WR isn't of any importance.

That data isn't of any importance to you, but it is to me. As is the data of watching Rodgers and some of his newly acquired veteran TE's over the last 5 seasons and the length of time it took for them to establish chemistry.

You have now added the assumption that a rookie WR, no matter who he is, as long as he is drafted in the early rounds, will automatically be near the top of the depth chart and be a solid contributor? Again, not an assumption I would casually make. Both Jordy and Davante played quite a bit as the #3 WR in their rookie years, Cobb got quite a few snaps as well. While all 3 of them showed some promise, I wouldn't exactly call what they did their rookie years spectacular.

• Jordy: 33 receptions, 366 yds 2 TD's
• Cobb: 25/325/1
• Adams: 38/446/3

MVS had similar stats (26/452/2) as Adams last season and some wonder if he will even make the team in 2020.


The Crosby tie in? You keep insisting that he is just an average kicker. You do this by strictly looking at his stats over his entire career and not wanting to acknowledge what he has done in most recent history. Now you want to say 2019 was a year that had some good rookie WR's, so lets ignore the past seasons when predicting what a rookie WR will do? You know that either of us could go back through all of the NFL drafts and probably find more WR busts in the first 3 rounds, than we find successes, especially if all we are looking for is how they did in year #1. Which is my point, you shouldn't rely on it. So I will continue to disagree with you or anyone that feels that just by drafting a rookie in the top of the draft, the Packers have fixed their WR issue. Can it happen? Sure.

 

[Dantés]

I think it is unrealistic to expect any rookie picked in any of the first 3 rounds to capture anything beyond 3rd receiver status his rookie year. No QB is as unyielding as Rodgers when it comes to deciding which receivers he’ll throw to. A rookie WR is much more likely to put up numbers in any of the 31 other cities.

What do you base that on?

 

[Dantés]

When did I ignore last season? I never said we couldn't find a WR that instantly improves our offense. I said we shouldn't solely bank on that to happen. Some here seem to think we could do nothing in the off season, besides use a top pick to draft a WR and the position is fixed. I disagree with that theory and at least Funchess is a step in the right direction.

Again, I have said this over and over, there are many scenarios that could play out.

1. The Packers draft a WR in the first 3 rounds and get an instant contributor.
2. The Packers draft a rookie WR that doesn't catch on right away and takes a few years to mesh with Rodgers and the offense, before becoming a solid WR.
3. The Packers draft a rookie WR and he flops.

Given the history of the position, the Packers should plan for all 3 scenarios, or a combination of. If we already had 2 or 3 solid WR's on the roster, the outcome wouldn't be as critical to the success of the Packers in 2020. Most of my posts on this were before Funchess was signed, his addition to the team should help. I think he will help, but quite honestly, I think it will even take him 5-6 games to start clicking with Rodgers and the Offense. Might be longer if COVID-19 cuts some of the workouts and camps short.

I have to poke you a bit. For a guy that gets on here year after year and preach's that we all need to look at Mason Crosby over his career, not just one season, your seemingly new view on Rookie WR's and basing it off of just 2019, seems contrary to how you view Crosby. Sure more rookie WR's had success last year, than we are probably use to seeing. However, should we now ignore all past data on the position? I think its a slippery slope not to include data from the last 15 years in regards to Rodgers, the Packers offense and rookie WR's.

Who is saying this? I'm not saying this is untrue, but I have not really seen it.

 

[PikeBadger]

What do you base that on?

I base that on his entire career. He is very slow to develop trust, he is very slow to adapt in MANY ways imo. I just chalk it up to his basic personality. Nothing can be done about it I suspect. It’s just how I view the guy.

 

[Dantés]

I base that on his entire career. He is very slow to develop trust, he is very slow to adapt in MANY ways imo. I just chalk it up to his basic personality. Nothing can be done about it I suspect. It’s just how I view the guy.

Can you give me examples? I'm just not sure that I buy this narrative.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Some here seem to think we could do nothing in the off season, besides use a top pick to draft a WR and the position is fixed.

Who is saying this? I'm not saying this is untrue, but I have not really seen it.

Just to placate you, I know this isn't your opinion. You wanted the Packers to add a top FA TE and take advantage of a solid WR draft and use a top 3 pick on one.

This forum isn't the only place where I see opinions. So I am not going to go through every thread, every post, every article, every conversation with friends and post them here, just to prove my point to you. If you haven't seen that opinion, lucky you, but I don't think you have been looking very hard then.

My only mistake was using the word "here", because some people will take that literally and want to say "I haven't seen that mentioned in this thread".

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think it is unrealistic to expect any rookie picked in any of the first 3 rounds to capture anything beyond 3rd receiver status his rookie year. No QB is as unyielding as Rodgers when it comes to deciding which receivers he’ll throw to. A rookie WR is much more likely to put up numbers in any of the 31 other cities.

Yet Rodgers had no issue targeting undrafted Allen Lazard 52 times over the last 11 games of last season.

You have now added the assumption that a rookie WR, no matter who he is, as long as he is drafted in the early rounds, will automatically be near the top of the depth chart and be a solid contributor? Again, not an assumption I would casually make. Both Jordy and Davante played quite a bit as the #3 WR in their rookie years, Cobb got quite a few snaps as well. While all 3 of them showed some promise, I wouldn't exactly call what they did their rookie years spectacular.

• Jordy: 33 receptions, 366 yds 2 TD's
• Cobb: 25/325/1
• Adams: 38/446/3

MVS had similar stats (26/452/2) as Adams last season and some wonder if he will even make the team in 2020.

Once again, you have to realize that the Packers had two receivers who eclipsed both 1,000 receiving yards in the rookie seasons of each Nelson and Adams.

With the lack of talent at wide receiver on the roster I would fully expect a rookie selected early to grab the second spot on the depth chart, otherwise Gutekunst might have chosen the wrong one.

MVS is a different story as he was already in his second season last year and a fifth round pick on top of it.

The Crosby tie in? You keep insisting that he is just an average kicker. You do this by strictly looking at his stats over his entire career and not wanting to acknowledge what he has done in most recent history. Now you want to say 2019 was a year that had some good rookie WR's, so lets ignore the past seasons when predicting what a rookie WR will do? You know that either of us could go back through all of the NFL drafts and probably find more WR busts in the first 3 rounds, than we find successes, especially if all we are looking for is how they did in year #1. Which is my point, you shouldn't rely on it. So I will continue to disagree with you or anyone that feels that just by drafting a rookie in the top of the draft, the Packers have fixed their WR issue. Can it happen? Sure.

As I've mentioned in the post above the 2019 wide receiver class wasn't anything special compared to other years. Therefore there's no reason to act as if there haven't been successful rookie WRs in the past who even were selected after the first round.

I wanted the Packers to add a veteran tight end in free agency to improve the receiving corps but obviously that hasn't happened. While Funchess adds some experience and talent signing him isn't enough to cut it for me. At this point the draft is the most likely option to upgrade the position.

If you have any other ideas please feel free to let me know but so far I haven't seen you post any.

I won't turn this into another discussion about Crosby.