Packers by position: Linebackers

Pokerbrat2000

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What I remember about the Cowboy game was that we were way ahead and then I got real nervous. I am pretty sure they put aside their run game pretty early in the game. And I remember the Eagles ran through us and we kind of learned that our D was not as tough as we thought it was. Need to get better in the middle and at linebacker. For me, that is much more important than a tight end.

Right and I didn't mean to imply that our run defense was good all year, as a matter of fact it was so inconsistent, that it was tricky at times to get a real pulse on it. I think by the time the season ended, especially with the 9'er game, one has to conclude, it needs a lot of work.
 

AmishMafia

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Right now... finding a "9" in stopping the run is my hope. We need to improve on run defense before this team can go further. The Niners, Vikings, and the Cowboys are prime examples of run first NFC teams that we will struggle with defensively.
We have been exploited in the short middle pass game for years. One game isnt going to get me thinking that rush defense is suddenly a more critical need than pass defense or rush.
 

Dantés

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We have been exploited in the short middle pass game for years. One game isnt going to get me thinking that rush defense is suddenly a more critical need than pass defense or rush.

Furthermore, finding a true linebacker who can handle passing responsibilities would allow them to play a lot more nickel and a lot less dime.

The lack of a true cover LB has meant playing safeties in the box next to Martinez a lot. Replace that guy with a true linebacker, even one who is better against the pass than the run, and featuring him next to a tougher, better run defending LB would mean improvement in the run game too.
 

captainWIMM

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We have been exploited in the short middle pass game for years. One game isnt going to get me thinking that rush defense is suddenly a more critical need than pass defense or rush.

The Packers would immediately improve in both areas by finding a stud inside linebacker. Unfortunately there aren't a ton of them available.
 

gopkrs

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Curtis Bolton was impressive the little bit he was able to play. That would be very nice if he could be one of the two linebackers in the middle.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Curtis Bolton was impressive the little bit he was able to play. That would be very nice if he could be one of the two linebackers in the middle.

Would be GREAT, but Gute and the Packers CANNOT rely on that happening and do nothing to address the problem. We saw that at WR last year, where I think some of their hopes were actually justified, but still overly relied on.
 

captainWIMM

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Curtis Bolton was impressive the little bit he was able to play. That would be very nice if he could be one of the two linebackers in the middle.

Bolton spent the entire season on injured reserve and didn't play a single snap.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Bolton spent the entire season on injured reserve and didn't play a single snap.

Seems like this is a common misconception, a player does a few things in preseason play and some feel he is the next Pro Bowler at his position. I have lost track of all of the "Preseason Phenoms" that have paraded through Green Bay in the last 20 or so years, but it is a lot. Maybe my memory is tainted, but seems like back in the day when starters played more snaps in the preseason, you could actually get a good gauge on just how good some of the rookies and newcomers were. In today's Preseason games, it tends to be just a bunch of guys playing against a bunch of other guys, most of whom won't be playing in the NFL too long.
 

gopkrs

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Personally, I think a person who watches preseason games with the idea of trying to get an idea of a new player's worth, can sometimes see someone they think has a chance. A lot of those type players will not have any kind of chance as we wind down the number of preseason games. I thought Bolton showed some things. I hope he can come back from his injury and we can watch him some more.
 

captainWIMM

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Personally, I think a person who watches preseason games with the idea of trying to get an idea of a new player's worth, can sometimes see someone they think has a chance. A lot of those type players will not have any kind of chance as we wind down the number of preseason games. I thought Bolton showed some things. I hope he can come back from his injury and we can watch him some more.

I agree with Poker that it's close to impossible to make an educated guess on a player's potential solely based on preseason snaps.

With that being said I definitely hope Bolton will develop into a good player.
 

AmishMafia

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I think it is more likely that a player who plays well in the preseason will do better in the pros on average than a player who plays poorly in the preseason.

I agree with Poker that it's close to impossible to make an educated guess on a player's potential solely based on preseason snaps.

With that being said I definitely hope Bolton will develop into a good player.

C'mon man.

Think about what you just typed.



It is close to impossible

To make an educated guess

If a player has potential



So . . . . To sum up

You cant even fathom if a player might be able to play football by watching him play football with other players around his level.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Just to be clear on what I had previously said about preseason football and the ability to evaluate. I never said you can't evaluate rookies during the preseason. I said that unlike years ago, when teams were playing starters more during the PS games and rotating rookies in to evaluate them, you got a better feel for how well they matched up against actual NFL starters. For the last several years, preseason games have been diluted down quite a bit and this dilution effects the way of being able to evaluate talent in isolation. Why has this happened? For 2 reasons. First, teams don't want starters injured, so they are not playing them nearly as much, if at all. Second, teams don't have to make any cut downs until after all the PS games are over. So all 4 games have the maximum number of players (90) getting rotated into the game.

My post was merely to point out that people can get overly excited about guys during preseason. This excitement over a rookie who makes a few big plays, while playing against lessor talent, often proves to be false hope.
 

AmishMafia

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Just to be clear on what I had previously said about preseason football and the ability to evaluate. I never said you can't evaluate rookies during the preseason. I said that unlike years ago, when teams were playing starters more during the PS games and rotating rookies in to evaluate them, you got a better feel for how well they matched up against actual NFL starters. For the last several years, preseason games have been diluted down quite a bit and this dilution effects the way of being able to evaluate talent in isolation. Why has this happened? For 2 reasons. First, teams don't want starters injured, so they are not playing them nearly as much, if at all. Second, teams don't have to make any cut downs until after all the PS games are over. So all 4 games have the maximum number of players (90) getting rotated into the game.

My post was merely to point out that people can get overly excited about guys during preseason. This excitement over a rookie who makes a few big plays, while playing against lessor talent, often proves to be false hope.
Oh I agree.

The Capt took it too far. Maybe it was sarcastic hyperbole, but I doubt it.
 
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I’m finally getting to look closer at LB options.
Help me here. I’m not seeing a 1st round LB that aligned with a late round pick? ( Simmons and Murray will be gone right?)
The next set varies into the mid-second round area where, as usual, their ranking varies widely. But if we took the “mean” they seem to be well past #30 (enough to question using a day 1 pick on need).
Do we trade back? Trade up?
or should we go after a LB rounds 3-5 range?
 

AmishMafia

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I’m finally getting to look closer at LB options.
Help me here. I’m not seeing a 1st round LB that aligned with a late round pick? ( Simmons and Murray will be gone right?)
The next set varies into the mid-second round area where, as usual, their ranking varies widely. But if we took the “mean” they seem to be well past #30 (enough to question using a day 1 pick on need).
Do we trade back? Trade up?
or should we go after a LB rounds 3-5 range?
Murray and queen have a chance of being there and representing value. But I'm liking about 5 WRs who are valued 15 - 20 and I believe one should be there. I'm not sure what will happen at this point. I'm leaning towards a FA ILB and a WR in the first round.
 

gopkrs

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A large part of evaluating talent during preseason is to take into consideration who they are playing with and against. Maybe not easy but that part should be obvious. For example some people definitely get overhyped on a DE who beats an OT that will never play in the NFL. Because they are not evaluating the talent properly. Some guesswork and art involved. Certainly preseason is why some of us would like to see how Bolton does. W/O being there all the time it is of course tougher to try and make any decision on if that will impact the draft. So not saying we have our Middle Linebacker. Just saying I want to see some more of him. And I got that from preseason. Not a clue what the coaches are thinking.
 

gopkrs

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For our inside linebackers: Do not like Summers or Martinez for the job. Goodson did some good things I thought. Maybe with another inside partner he could make an impact. Not sure but we may need to keep him. Then we have Burks and Bolton. Sure seems like we have a lot of work to do in this area. Imho making one or two good decisions here and no bad ones could go a long way in improving our D. I know we have a couple other LBs on the squad or practice squad but I don't know anything about them. Don't see Rashan going there but it's a possibility.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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A large part of evaluating talent during preseason is to take into consideration who they are playing with and against. Maybe not easy but that part should be obvious. For example some people definitely get overhyped on a DE who beats an OT that will never play in the NFL. Because they are not evaluating the talent properly. Some guesswork and art involved. Certainly preseason is why some of us would like to see how Bolton does. W/O being there all the time it is of course tougher to try and make any decision on if that will impact the draft. So not saying we have our Middle Linebacker. Just saying I want to see some more of him. And I got that from preseason. Not a clue what the coaches are thinking.

So tell me what you saw out of Bolton that leads you to believe he could be a starter at ILB? Was it his interception against the Ravens? Because Tony Brown (no longer with the team) made a nice play tipping that ball thrown by their 3rd string QB (McSorley) and Bolton just happened to be there to catch it. Not trying to pick on you, just curious what you saw in him. There were a few here who wanted Summers to get snaps on defense, saying he was going to be a good ILB. He was healthy and available all season and yet the coaching staff never put him out there on defense for even a snap. Why?
 

captainWIMM

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C'mon man.

Think about what you just typed.

It is close to impossible

To make an educated guess

If a player has potential

So . . . . To sum up

You cant even fathom if a player might be able to play football by watching him play football with other players around his level.

All of the players on a preseason roster have potential but to solely evaluate their chances of having an impact in the NFL on preseason snaps is a futile attempt.
 

gopkrs

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So tell me what you saw out of Bolton that leads you to believe he could be a starter at ILB? Was it his interception against the Ravens? Because Tony Brown (no longer with the team) made a nice play tipping that ball thrown by their 3rd string QB (McSorley) and Bolton just happened to be there to catch it. Not trying to pick on you, just curious what you saw in him. There were a few here who wanted Summers to get snaps on defense, saying he was going to be a good ILB. He was healthy and available all season and yet the coaching staff never put him out there on defense for even a snap. Why?
I actually don't remember much except that I liked the way he played. I saw potential. I probably liked the way he tackled. Maybe the angles he took or the way he plugged the hole. Quickness. Again, not making bold predictions about him. Just would like to see more. But I can guarantee you that it was not from one interception. I do remember Summers making a lot of bad plays in the flat and that on a few plays he covered pretty closely; but he never had an idea of where the ball was. Really bad plays in the flat. And any good plays he made did not make up for the bad ones for me. A real liability imo
 

Mondio

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all I remember about Bolton is thinking he had a pretty bad game and then an improved game in the preseason. I have no idea what he is or isn't at this point.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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The Packers will get another look at both Summers (3 yrs left on his rookie deal) and Bolton (2 years left) in the coming 6 months. Hopefully, one or both show them something to warrant keeping them. However, no way should the Packers plans hinge on either of them contributing. I feel the same way about Oren Burks, who has 2 years left on his contract.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I agree with Poker that it's close to impossible to make an educated guess on a player's potential solely based on preseason snaps.
At least it is one step up from glowing reports out of non-contact practice sessions. Once the starters get their couple of series snaps, if that many, preseason does amount to something like a college all-star game.
 
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