OT...basketball

[GreenNGold_81]

First, he didn't murder anyone. Second, he had his hands up as he approached police who likely did not know he was involved at that point. Third, he willfully turned himself in the next day. If a black person had done the exact same, he wouldn't have been shot either. Enough ********.

WOW. So in your mind, it is ok to brandish an AR-15 (illegally) then move across state lines and shoot protestors? Self-defence doesn't add up when it's predicated on illegal activity. He is going to have the book thrown at him regardless of all the money the Christian fundraiser has made to support his cause. Being charged as an adult for two counts of first-degree homicide and one count of attempted homicide = he won't see the light of day until he's geriatric, if ever. Protestors were screaming at the cops that Kyle had shot people, so it's not like they couldn't have realized his involvement. Rifle shots are LOUD, letting a rifle carrying person walk past them after they had just heard multiple shots is unbelievable. You'll never convince me that a black man carrying a rifle after MULTIPLE LOUD SHOTS were heard would be allowed to walk past a team of police. Kyle then had the opportunity to turn himself in after the shootings and didn't - he fled the scene. He didn't turn himself in, he was able to sleep in his bed and he was arrested at his home. Before you're upping your tone at least know your facts, that way you won't sound stupid.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Better yet. Quit bowing to the alter of academia. Don't be a sheep.

*Altar. But you'd know that if you respected academia.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Better yet. Quit bowing to the alter of academia. Don't be a sheep.

When did education become a bad thing? Seriously, learning is kind of how civilization, as a whole, continues to improve, right?

 

[GreenNGold_81]

have you ever "aimed" a taser?

I don't think you have a very realistic view of what happened. They deployed taser, not once, but twice. He had a weapon. He wrestled with an officer already as they tried to gain some compliance. The guy who took the video said he was wrestling with police before he started, that's why he wiped out his camera. It was reported he threw one officer in a headlock.

so yes, after confronting a party in a domestic call that is agitated, uncompliant, combative, has already assaulted an officer and broke free of custody and 2 taser attempts, absolutely YES when he dives into a car as an officer is trying to pull him back it was a blink of the eye moment. The video above shows you just how fast that changes.

I've never aimed a taser, nor is that relevant. I'm not trained to do so. He didn't DIVE into the vehicle, so stop sensationalizing. He LURCHED in with an officer holding his shirt who then shot him multiple times with his back turned. No further attempts to bring him down were seen on video. I understand that fighting the cops is not a brilliant idea, but further steps could and SHOULD have been done to prevent his paralysis and likely permanent disability.

 

[Mondio]

I've never aimed a taser, nor is that relevant. I'm not trained to do so. He didn't DIVE into the vehicle, so stop sensationalizing. He LURCHED in with an officer holding his shirt who then shot him multiple times with his back turned. No further attempts to bring him down were seen on video. I understand that fighting the cops is not a brilliant idea, but further steps could and SHOULD have been done to prevent his paralysis and likely permanent disability.

It is relevant. If you think someone is going to aim tasers at legs while they’re walking away and actually have a good chance at hitting them you’ve seen too many tv shows.

I don’t care if you’re trained or not.

mans I don’t care what you call it as he reached into a vehicle. This wasn’t just some guy reaching in a vehicle. It wasn’t.

he was an agitated man, with an open warrant, that was part of a domestic and the reason the cops were called in the first place. He was already on the ground once with police in the other side of the car, 2 taser attempts failed to stop him and still he ignored every command and reached, lurched, dove, wiggled whatever, into his car while an attempt to restrain him was being made. Oh, and he had a weapon.

He’s kind of responsible for what happened to himself. I have a good feeling had he put his hands up and walked towards police, this conversation isn’t happening. It’s a very odd event to burn a city over.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

It is relevant. If you think someone is going to aim tasers at legs while they’re walking away and actually have a good chance at hitting them you’ve seen too many tv shows.

I don’t care if you’re trained or not.

mans I don’t care what you call it as he reached into a vehicle. This wasn’t just some guy reaching in a vehicle. It wasn’t.

he was an agitated man, with an open warrant, that was part of a domestic and the reason the cops were called in the first place. He was already on the ground once with police in the other side of the car, 2 taser attempts failed to stop him and still he ignored every command and reached, lurched, dove, wiggled whatever, into his car while an attempt to restrain him was being made. Oh, and he had a weapon.

He’s kind of responsible for what happened to himself. I have a good feeling had he put his hands up and walked towards police, this conversation isn’t happening. It’s a very odd event to burn a city over.

But he was only able to REACH for his weapon through police ineffectiveness at #1. De-escalating the situation. #2. Being unable to physically restrain him despite strength in numbers (remember, this is not the Ultimate freakin' Warrior here fighting cops). #3. Permitting him to open his vehicle door without further attempts at subduing him. Their reliance on brandishing weapons occurred too early, out of respect for human life they should have made further attempts to subdue him without using the threat of being shot as the sole means to ALTER someone's behavior.

 

[rmontro]

When did education become a bad thing?

It's not about education or learning, it's about leftist professors who try to indoctrinate young impressionable students with their own political leanings. Sort of like how the NBA/BLM/China wants to push their politics under the banner of basketball. People pay tuition to have their children educated, not to have politics shoved down their throat. Stick to the product that people are paying for, whether it be education or basketball.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

It's not about education or learning, it's about leftist professors who try to indoctrinate young impressionable students with their own political leanings. Sort of like how the NBA/BLM/China wants to push their politics under the banner of basketball. People pay tuition to have their children educated, not to have politics shoved down their throat. Stick to the product that people are paying for, whether it be education or basketball.

That sounds like an excuse to propagate falsehoods. Professors often welcome challenges to beliefs that are not their own. Discourse to the contrary is often encouraged during class as a means to help educate. To shy away from a challenge to ones belief system is lazy. One's political beliefs should not matter for student enrolment in the majority of cases as long as they encourage open dialogue, so your attempt to demonize professors as "leftists" is ridiculous.

 

[Mondio]

But he was only able to REACH for his weapon through police ineffectiveness at #1. De-escalating the situation. #2. Being unable to physically restrain him despite strength in numbers (remember, this is not the Ultimate freakin' Warrior here fighting cops). #3. Permitting him to open his vehicle door without further attempts at subduing him. Their reliance on brandishing weapons occurred too early, out of respect for human life they should have made further attempts to subdue him without using the threat of being shot as the sole means to ALTER someone's behavior.

the threat of being shot wasn't their "sole means" to alter behavior.

There is no video of what occurred within the first few minutes. I imagine they tried talking to him and you're right, it didn't de-escalate anything obviously. Sometimes people want the confrontation, outcomes be damned. Unlike some derelict on the street i've encountered a few times that I can just walk away from, police don't have the luxury of just walking away from someone that wants a fight. Especially when they've been called there specifically for this individuals involvement in a domestic dispute.

they couldn't physically restrain him. I'm not the ultimate warrior either, i'm middle aged. I could probably get away from a few people too if I wanted to. Not every cop needs to be the ultimate warrior either. Not every cop should be expected to wrestle every suspect to the ground either. further attempts? How many you want?

talking-didn't work

physical restraint-didn't work

suspect reportedly grabbed cop in headlock and took him to the ground

2 cops tried to restrain him and there is video of them in a struggle on the ground, all of them-didn't work

He got up, tried a taser-didn't work

at some point in all of this the taser was tried again but not sure when so I just inserted it here- didn't work

at this point officer draw weapons and one grabs him from behind, at this point the suspect either doesn't care what can happen to him or is just not able to control any aspect of his behavior in this state, which only makes it more dangerous for the police as he drags a cop into a car he's trying to get into.

oh, and he has a weapon.

Then he's shot.

I bet at any point Jake says, you know what, this won't end well and puts his hands up. We're not having this conversation. Even up to the point he opened his car door.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It's not about education or learning, it's about leftist professors who try to indoctrinate young impressionable students with their own political leanings. Sort of like how the NBA/BLM/China wants to push their politics under the banner of basketball. People pay tuition to have their children educated, not to have politics shoved down their throat. Stick to the product that people are paying for, whether it be education or basketball.

Most research has shown that exposure to different people (which occurs a lot in college) tends to make people more liberal as they get exposed to, and understand better, different viewpoints and experiences. I can only say most colleges are considered "leftist" by some because they tend to be more understanding of others and willing to stand up for what they consider to be harassment of those they have learned more about. I don't intend for that to come off as elitist or condescending but it's a fact that most large studies have shown that when communities are not very diverse, they tend to be far more fearful and distrustful of those that they don't consider part of their "community" and that exposure to people from outside their normal group lessens that fear and distrust. I've never actually had someone show me how math or science can be "leftist" (certainly numbers can be manipulated but that's not math so much as dishonesty, a universal issue). Certainly there are courses that are liberal but I would argue that there are far more conservative institutions out there (look at all the religious universities) than "leftist".

It's unfortunate when people, from any political leaning (I MEAN THIS, IT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE OF EVERY LEANING), would rather denigrate and ignore knowledge than allow that knowledge to change their minds on a subject. When new things are learned people should be far more open to embracing that new understanding.

 

[rmontro]

It's unfortunate when people, from any political leaning (I MEAN THIS, IT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE OF EVERY LEANING), would rather denigrate and ignore knowledge than allow that knowledge to change their minds on a subject. When new things are learned people should be far more open to embracing that new understanding.

I am all for knowledge. My point was that when Crow was talking about bowing to the altars of academia, I'm pretty sure he wasn't denigrating knowledge, but rather the idea of bowing down to the elite leftist political leanings, which are manifested in a number of different ways.

Young people in general tend to be more liberal. There's an old saying "If you're not liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not conservative when you're older, you have no brain". Young people might be idealistic and angry enough to hate the police, but older people with more experience and maturity will realize you need the police to maintain society.

You're right, if you are taking a math class, you don't expect the professor to be lecturing you on his political opinions (whatever his leanings). Which was my point: You're paying to be taught math, not to be sold on what party to vote for. Same with basketball. There are no crowds now, because of Covid. But if there were, I wonder what ticket sales would look like with all the politics they're shoving down people's throats.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

the threat of being shot wasn't their "sole means" to alter behavior.

There is no video of what occurred within the first few minutes. I imagine they tried talking to him and you're right, it didn't de-escalate anything obviously. Sometimes people want the confrontation, outcomes be damned. Unlike some derelict on the street i've encountered a few times that I can just walk away from, police don't have the luxury of just walking away from someone that wants a fight. Especially when they've been called there specifically for this individuals involvement in a domestic dispute.

they couldn't physically restrain him. I'm not the ultimate warrior either, i'm middle aged. I could probably get away from a few people too if I wanted to. Not every cop needs to be the ultimate warrior either. Not every cop should be expected to wrestle every suspect to the ground either. further attempts? How many you want?

talking-didn't work

physical restraint-didn't work

suspect reportedly grabbed cop in headlock and took him to the ground

2 cops tried to restrain him and there is video of them in a struggle on the ground, all of them-didn't work

He got up, tried a taser-didn't work

at some point in all of this the taser was tried again but not sure when so I just inserted it here- didn't work

at this point officer draw weapons and one grabs him from behind, at this point the suspect either doesn't care what can happen to him or is just not able to control any aspect of his behavior in this state, which only makes it more dangerous for the police as he drags a cop into a car he's trying to get into.

oh, and he has a weapon.

Then he's shot.

I bet at any point Jake says, you know what, this won't end well and puts his hands up. We're not having this conversation. Even up to the point he opened his car door.

Come on man, he doesn't DRAG the officer into the car with him. The officer is trying to pull him back from the car by grabbing his shirt and then shoots him in the back. Meanwhile, the other two officers are doing JACK SQUAT. Why were these cops so ineffective at their jobs? Is anyone asking that? I'm not absolving Blake from his part in all of this, I just think that the cops could have done more to prevent the shooting.

 

[gatorpack]

Again, the blink of an eye argument is out with Jacob Blake. It was ten seconds of them following him, weapons drawn, allowing him to open the door of his vehicle. Ten seconds where someone could have tackled his legs, tried to taze his legs, block his means of escape (the car door).

So the police officer should have to unnecessarily put his life in danger??? They are police officers not UFC fighters that situation was really simple listen to the police officer don't try to run and live another day.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

So the police officer should have to unnecessarily put his life in danger??? They are police officers not UFC fighters that situation was really simple listen to the police officer don't try to run and live another day.

So everyone who doesn't listen to a police officer gets shot? Unreal. 'Merica!

 

[rmontro]

Obviously the cops should have left a note on Blake's car window, asking him politely to come down to the station to discuss showing up for his court appearance next time over hot beverages. But then LeBron would probably want to cancel the rest of the NBA season because they didn't provide him with a doily for his teacup.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Young people might be idealistic and angry enough to hate the police, but older people with more experience and maturity will realize you need the police to maintain society.

There are no crowds now, because of Covid. But if there were, I wonder what ticket sales would look like with all the politics they're shoving down people's throats.

There would still be smaller crowds but political messaging is only a small factor in that. I haven't seen much politics in MLB over the last 15+ years but crowd sizes and TV ratings have declined substantially. Ppl like to claim that political stands will affect sports revenue but I haven't seen ANY indication of that happening; when sports franchises start declining in value then maybe I'll start to believe that owners are seeing smaller profits.

As for your comment on "smart" ppl knowing you need police, I haven't actually seen any sane liberals claim otherwise; they're just willing to acknowledge the police aren't perfect and that maybe looking at ways to improve them could be worthwhile. Kinda calls into question the "smart" dynamic.

 

[rmontro]

There would still be smaller crowds but political messaging is only a small factor in that. I haven't seen much politics in MLB over the last 15+ years but crowd sizes and TV ratings have declined substantially. Ppl like to claim that political stands will affect sports revenue but I haven't seen ANY indication of that happening; when sports franchises start declining in value then maybe I'll start to believe that owners are seeing smaller profits.

Careful, I think you might have accidentally posted something on topic

It's entirely possible leagues might actually be more profitable as attendance and ratings shrink. A lot of it depends on how business dealings are set up. However, most likely they could be even more profitable yet if they weren't alienating a good part of their potential audience. The players don't seem to care, at least the ones that are following LeBron. But I've heard rumors some of the owners are less happy.

As for your comment on "smart" ppl knowing you need police, I haven't actually seen any sane liberals claim otherwise; they're just willing to acknowledge the police aren't perfect and that maybe looking at ways to improve them could be worthwhile.

Well, by the same token, I don't know any sane conservatives that do think the police are perfect. I've said several times in this thread I support police reform if it saves lives. But I will NOT support policies that will put police in greater danger just to serve some social justice narrative.

 

[Mondio]

So everyone who doesn't listen to a police officer gets shot? Unreal. 'Merica!

And you accuse me of sensationalism...

 

[gatorpack]

So everyone who doesn't listen to a police officer gets shot? Unreal. 'Merica!

Let's see warrant for arrest for a violent crime check, resisting arrest check, getting into a car with kids check, putting officers and others in danger check. If you read my post you would have seen I said in this situation of course that doesn't fit your narrative typical reply.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

And you accuse me of sensationalism...

He boiled it down to listen vs. shot in his argument. It was a fair criticism. When they throw me lobs, I'm gonna hit a homer ya know?

 

[Dblbogey]

That sounds like an excuse to propagate falsehoods. Professors often welcome challenges to beliefs that are not their own. Discourse to the contrary is often encouraged during class as a means to help educate. To shy away from a challenge to ones belief system is lazy. One's political beliefs should not matter for student enrolment in the majority of cases as long as they encourage open dialogue, so your attempt to demonize professors as "leftists" is ridiculous.

If you are unaware that professors are overwhelmingly left wingers, then there is no hope for you.

 

[Dblbogey]

Come on man, he doesn't DRAG the officer into the car with him. The officer is trying to pull him back from the car by grabbing his shirt and then shoots him in the back. Meanwhile, the other two officers are doing JACK SQUAT. Why were these cops so ineffective at their jobs? Is anyone asking that? I'm not absolving Blake from his part in all of this, I just think that the cops could have done more to prevent the shooting.

Were you there? What would you do if you felt your life was being threatened by a very bad guy. You get 1/2 second to decide.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Were you there? What would you do if you felt your life was being threatened by a very bad guy. You get 1/2 second to decide.

I watched the video, as stated. It was never 1/2 a second, as stated. It was ten seconds with no further attempt to take him down. Me with no training tackles his legs allowing the other two officers to mop up and pin him down while more officers come. There, that was a split second of thinking about it.

I don't know that these officers will lose their jobs, but I do hope they'll work a desk for a long while because clearly - if me, a jabroni on an internet forum can outthink them in a split second, they aren't fit for being on the streets. They should never be allowed to use a firearm again though.

 

[rmontro]

I watched the

Too late, you're dead.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Too late, you're dead.

Why, did the Thanks snap happen or something?