Official Studs n Duds Cinncy

[Pokerbrat2000]

Adams is 9th on the Packers in % of catches per target.

Probably true and Aaron Rodgers is #1, catching 1 of 1.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Lazard (at the 14-yard line near the hash marks) has a step on his man and inside position. If Rodgers had hit him in stride the defender would have had a slim chance at best of making any play on the ball.

As mentioned before that screenshot was taken at the time Adams caught the ball. Lazard wasn't open when Rodgers released the ball.

I do not disagree with you but you do not prove your point. You do the opposite. I mean how can GB have a 2nd receiver in the top whatever if they never get the ball thrown to them? That is what people are complaining about and your post kind of backs them up.

Rodgers is targeting someone else than Adams on 63.7% of his attempts. I'm quite sure that should be enough for another receiver to put up decent numbers if the Packers would have another top 50 pass catcher.

Adams is 9th on the Packers in % of catches per target.

First of all the sample size is pretty small for most players on the Packers ranked above Adams in catch percentage.

In addition Adams has an average depth of target of 12.3 yards. The eight players ranked above him of 4.1.

 

[PackAttack12]

First of all the sample size is pretty small for most players on the Packers ranked above Adams in catch percentage.

In addition Adams has an average depth of target of 12.3 yards. The eight players ranked above him of 4.1.

bingo.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't know. Tonyan isn't much of a blocker, and for whatever reason, he doesn't seem to be getting separation like he did last year.

Lately his production isn't much different that Marcedes Lewis's. Heck, even Deguara caught a pass.

Is it all on the offensive line?

We kinda have to look at what has changed from last season. The common denominator is our OL is drastically different.
Someone in here? posted a stat recently of how many starts the entire OL had in experience and for lack of better word I’d use pathetic. Lol

 

[tynimiller]

We kinda have to look at what has changed from last season. The common denominator is our OL is drastically different.
Someone in here? posted a stat recently of how many starts the entire OL had in experience and for lack of better word I’d use pathetic. Lol

It was me, as of right now today including last week:

Four of our OL starters this year at times have less than half dozen starts:

Royce Newman - 6 starts with 380 snaps
Josh Myers - 5 starts with 261 snaps
Jon Runyan - 5 starts with 483 snaps
Yosh Nijman - 3 starts with 213 snaps

Lucas Patrick - 23 starts with 1,757 snaps
Elgton Jenkins - 33 starts with 2,182 snaps
Billy Turner - 61 starts with 3,991 snaps

 

[OldSchool101]

As mentioned before that screenshot was taken at the time Adams caught the ball. Lazard wasn't open when Rodgers released the ball.



Rodgers is targeting someone else than Adams on 63.7% of his attempts. I'm quite sure that should be enough for another receiver to put up decent numbers if the Packers would have another top 50 pass catcher.



First of all the sample size is pretty small for most players on the Packers ranked above Adams in catch percentage.

In addition Adams has an average depth of target of 12.3 yards. The eight players ranked above him of 4.1.

Wow that’s a great point. Kind of like what Shultzy said.. that 9th argument really is defined by the overall lack of targets to the other 8 players. Kind of a catch 22 argument.

Leads me to believe that we need to be patient and let our OL gel and hopefully heal up before looking for answers.
I think going forward we will gradually see more guys getting open and better ball distribution and this point will mute itself.

There’s nothing wrong with discussing the point, but it’s premature to make grandiose proclamations, Let’s wait about 4 score more drives (pun intended and a shout out to Honest Abe Lincoln)

 

[Curly Calhoun]

We kinda have to look at what has changed from last season. The common denominator is our OL is drastically different.
Someone in here? posted a stat recently of how many starts the entire OL had in experience and for lack of better word I’d use pathetic. Lol

I keep hearing that it is all because of the offensive line, but I suspect that's not the whole picture...I think some of this is on Tonyan.

In "studs and duds" from the Bear game, Tonyan's name was prominent in the latter category:

TE Robert Tonyan: He whiffed twice on run blocks, although one was a tough assignment on Robert Quinn from a two-point stance. He’s never been an elite blocker. The more concerning part of his game is the lack of impact in the passing game. He caught two passes for 10 yards, and one was a dump-off on third down that gained four yards. The wins in one-on-one coverage aren’t coming as easily as last season, and the Packers are finding it hard to get him the ball on stuff within the scheme.

Studs and duds from Packers' 24-14 win over Bears in Week 6

All the studs and duds coming out of the Packers’ 24-14 win over the Bears in Week 6.

packerswire.usatoday.com

Maybe he's nursing an injury we're not aware of, or maybe something else. Whatever it is, he's not playing well right now.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I keep hearing that it is all because of the offensive line, but I suspect that's not the whole picture...I think some of this is on Tonyan.

Agreed and I think last season was somewhat of an anomaly for him and really glad that the Packers didn't give him a contract that reflected those numbers. He is back to playing like an UDFA (11 receptions on 20 targets) and the Packers aren't getting much out of Degaura either. Good thing we have Mercedes! I do think if the OL ever gets healthy, guys like Tonyan will get more targets, but for now, fingers crossed the Adams-Rodgers connection stays healthy.

 

[Schultz]

Look a lot of what I say is tongue in cheek. I do not subscribe to this we have no other quality receivers besides Adams. The sample size for these guys is too small. I remember pre-covid year when Adams missed a few games I thought Lazard was going to be great. The reason he had big games was he had the ball thrown to him. I am not advocating AR stops targeting DA at a high rate but I do believe if given the chance Lazard can contribute a bit more. The backs out of the backfield are very good receivers also. The talent level to me is just fine.

 

[tynimiller]

Yup.

Honestly, I think when Rodgers is on - he could make any of our receivers average 100 yards a game in a season. No this doesn't mean I Adams is overrated, dude gets open nearly every play.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I do not subscribe to this we have no other quality receivers besides Adams.

Define Quality.

I am probably one of the more outspoken posters concerning our WR group being....less than desirable the past few seasons. During this time, besides Adams and now Cobb, the WR's the Packers have given Rodgers have been less than average. Just look around the league at what some teams have at WR. Cobb is probably an average #3 guy. I like Lazard, MVS, A. Rodgers, ESB and Taylor, but I don't think any of them are starters on at least half the teams.

Saying we have good RB's and/or TE's to make up for the WR's sounds more like an excuse. Yes, we have 2 pretty decent RB's that can both run and catch, but that doesn't mean we don't need better WR's. Some posters have been trying to convince themselves and others, that the receivers are fine, because the offense still produces. Sure, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be even better and produce more. I think with a better WR group last year, we get by Tampa Bay.

In 2019 Rodgers was given the following WR's to work with:
- Adams, MVS, ESB, Davis, Allison and Kumerow.

Davis, Allison and Kumerow have done nothing or little since.

In 2020 the group hardly changed: Adams, MVS, Lazard, ESB and Shepard/Taylor.

At least in 2021 they drafted Amari Rodgers and signed Cobb, so some progress is being made. Still, the WR group hasn't changed that much. Adams, MVS, Cobb, Lazard, Rodgers, Taylor/ESB.

If Adams isn't resigned, I can see why Rodgers will really be eying the front door.

 

[tynimiller]

One would need to define what "quality" is before I could agree or disagree. If you have to be a gamechanger or a 1,000 yard type guarantee guy than maybe I'd agree.

But say we add a guy that is a clear #2 receiving threat and Lazard is pulled off the field a lot more....does that change or impact anything run game wise given Lazard's immense blocking role in that portion of the playbook?

Far too many IFs and unknowns to predict what would happen if we added someone. We have quality backups, we just arguably don't have a true #2 IMO.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

But say we add a guy that is a clear #2 receiving threat and Lazard is pulled off the field a lot more....does that change or impact anything run game wise given Lazard's immense blocking role in that portion of the playbook?

I understand what you are saying, but you are giving zero credit to that other Receivers ability to throw a block or get in the way. I don't see MVS throwing a ton of blocks when he plays. I have also seen Lazard whiff on some blocks. Maybe I have WR envy of teams like the Cardinals and Rams, but sometimes I wonder what life would be like with that much talent at WR and AR throwing to it.

 

[tynimiller]

I understand what you are saying, but you are giving zero credit to that other Receivers ability to throw a block or get in the way. I don't see MVS throwing a ton of blocks when he plays. I have also seen Lazard whiff on some blocks. Maybe I have WR envy of teams like the Cardinals and Rams, but sometimes I wonder what life would be like with that much talent at WR and AR throwing to it.

Hang on MVS and his blocking chops has been highlighted and discussed here often. Believe it was the Week 11 game against Chicago last year I argued he played an incredible game and was worthy of a Stud rating - based nearly entirely on his blocking.

You are right though it would all depend who the #2 was - some would 100% fit the bill where Lazard excels and ALSO be a bigger receiving threat.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hang on MVS and his blocking chops has been highlighted and discussed here often. Believe it was the Week 11 game against Chicago last year I argued he played an incredible game and was worthy of a Stud rating - based nearly entirely on his blocking.

You are right though it would all depend who the #2 was - some would 100% fit the bill where Lazard excels and ALSO be a bigger receiving threat.

Agreed. Lazard has been one of the highest rated WR's in the NFL when it comes to blocking, but it would be nice to have some more productive options catching the ball. I think all these guys can catch balls, it is the route running and getting themselves open that they don't overly excel at. Even Cobb seems to have lost a step or two.

 

[tynimiller]

It also doesn’t help you have Adams who gets first look almost every play, and rightfully so because he excels at getting open and as Rodgers says Adams is considered open when others would not be

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It also doesn’t help you have Adams who gets first look almost every play, and rightfully so because he excels at getting open and as Rodgers says Adams is considered open when others would not be

Yes, he has clearly established himself as the #1 target in GB and perhaps with any team in the NFL. It is a bit of a Catch-22 or a Catch-17, I think, no pun intended. AR probably forces more balls to #17 than he should, but given the large talent gap between Adams and the next guy, I probably would too.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Agreed and I think last season was somewhat of an anomaly for him and really glad that the Packers didn't give him a contract that reflected those numbers. He is back to playing like an UDFA (11 receptions on 20 targets) and the Packers aren't getting much out of Degaura either. Good thing we have Mercedes! I do think if the OL ever gets healthy, guys like Tonyan will get more targets, but for now, fingers crossed the Adams-Rodgers connection stays healthy.

I think you're probably right.

Looks like Green Bay may have to spend another high draft pick on a TE...

 

[Schultz]

There is no guarantee no matter who the #2 WR is they see enough targets (due to Adams) that you have a Rams, TB, ARZ situation. If GB can't count the RBs as receivers then the Chiefs can't count TE. That makes them pretty thin. I just do not think these guys get enough opportunities to be fairly evaluated. Is that because they do not get open or is it because of the comfort level AR has with DA? That my friends is the question.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Even if you're right (highly debatable), it's really amusing how some expect Rodgers to be perfect at his job and never miss a read, never throw to the wrong guy, never miss a check, etc.

It's interesting that Rodgers is the only human on Earth that is supposed to be perfect every play. What a revelation!

False premise. Expecting a professional QB to look for the best read instead of a specific number on a jersey isn't expecting perfection.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Rodgers is targeting someone else than Adams on 63.7% of his attempts. I'm quite sure that should be enough for another receiver to put up decent numbers if the Packers would have another top 50 pass catcher.

Look, it's been well established that you're in the "everybody sucks but Adams" cabal, but go back look at the all of the games Adams has missed in the last two years. Rodgers has played some of his best games when his security blanket isn't on the field. It proves other guys can play; he just chooses to ignore them most of the time when he see a #17 jersey.

 

[PikeBadger]

There is no guarantee no matter who the #2 WR is they see enough targets (due to Adams) that you have a Rams, TB, ARZ situation. If GB can't count the RBs as receivers then the Chiefs can't count TE. That makes them pretty thin. I just do not think these guys get enough opportunities to be fairly evaluated. Is that because they do not get open or is it because of the comfort level AR has with DA? That my friends is the question.

And it really isn't important except to the fantasy football geeks. The fact that the ball is being spread around and no one has been dropping passes means that he has an arsenal of available weapons at his disposal. That IS important as it forces the defense to account for everyone. Opens up the offense's options and robs opposing DC's of tendencies to latch onto (very important).

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Look, it's been well established that you're in the "everybody sucks but Adams" cabal, but go back look at the all of the games Adams has missed in the last two years. Rodgers has played some of his best games when his security blanket isn't on the field. It proves other guys can play; he just chooses to ignore them most of the time when he see a #17 jersey.

Once again, you act as if Rodgers targets Adams on three of four passes when in reality he throws to someone else 63% of the time.

 

[PackAttack12]

False premise. Expecting a professional QB to look for the best read instead of a specific number on a jersey isn't expecting perfection.

This doesn't happen near as often as you make it out to be, but lets change it up a bit. Every single quarterback that's ever played doesn't always take the "best read". None of them.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Once again, you act as if Rodgers targets Adams on three of four passes when in reality he throws to someone else 63% of the time.

In other words, he throws to the same guy more than 1/3 or the time. That's not good distribution. Out of the 63% you reference, I wonder how many of those are to RBs on designed screens? I don't have hours to spare to crunch numbers but I would bet if you only look at downfield passes to WRs and TEs you would find about 2/3 of the time he throws at #17. Now, that said, he did improve his distribution today.