Moss now a Viking OFFICIAL THREAD

[Veretax]

We'll see how the CBA all goes down. Present indication are that the players want more money and the owners are willing to lock them out. Now if the owners want to keep their hands on the dough, it's reasonable to assume they are going to bargain for a tough cap.

In another train of thought, that 3rd round pick the Vikings gave up could also be huge. I know this falls under the category of sketchy "what ifs" but think about this list of players who were taken in the 3rd round or later; Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Johnny Unitas, Mike Webster, Roger Staubach, Bart Starr, John Stallworth, Terrell Davis, Nick Buoniconti and Shannon Sharpe. I surmise the lower number of the round, the more probability of getting an all-star player. Now there are 7 rounds in the draft. Presumably the top 3 rounds are going to be your top half of the picks. Therefore, giving up a 3rd *could* be huge.

Yeah, we'll have to wait and see, I hope they don't have a lock out, I love football too much, but it could happen. There are other things at play too, revenue sharing, is a problem too. gah..... I hate not knowing

 

[SpartaChris]

There was an interesting opinion in this morning's local paper. I think she makes a lot of sense. The difference between the Vikings and the Packers right now, is the Vikings are forfeiting the next x number of years for their shot this year. The Packers are taking the Patriots' approach. They wish to be a team with which to be reckoned for the next x number of years.

The Vikings may have peaked last year. If they don't get to the show this year, they are probably done in for perhaps the next 5 years or so.

I absolutely agree with the approach Ted Thompson has taken with regards to building this team. We're set to be a force for YEARS to come, not a one hit wonder like the Vikings. I've been trying to point out to people who seem to think the only way to win is to trade players and draft picks for some big name guy that trying to buy championships just doesn't work. The Cowboys, Redskins and Vikings have been trying to buy a championship for years now, and look where that's gotten them? Meanwhile, the Patriots and Colts do very little in the way of free agency, and are always competitive.

The Vikings may have the best team on paper today, but that doesn't guarantee them their first ever Championship. It doesn't even guarantee them a playoff spot. That said, they're going to suffer through a period of mediocrity for the next several years as just about every key veteran player on their roster will be gone by next season and replaced with draft picks. If they draft well, they could only be down for a year or two. If not, it could get ugly for a while.

 

[Jess]

I'd absolutely go 4-12 for the next 5 years for a Super Bowl this year.

That's just my personal opinion, though.

And no, I'm not saying Minnesota will win it all. Though I think they have a very good look at it.

 

[SpartaChris]

In another train of thought, that 3rd round pick the Vikings gave up could also be huge. I know this falls under the category of sketchy "what ifs" but think about this list of players who were taken in the 3rd round or later; Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Johnny Unitas, Mike Webster, Roger Staubach, Bart Starr, John Stallworth, Terrell Davis, Nick Buoniconti and Shannon Sharpe. I surmise the lower number of the round, the more probability of getting an all-star player. Now there are 7 rounds in the draft. Presumably the top 3 rounds are going to be your top half of the picks. Therefore, giving up a 3rd *could* be huge.

I thought that too, but unfortunately, I think they'll be fine with draft picks. They got picks in the Sage trade and they'll get picks for any of the free agents they either choose to franchise or transition tag, and of course they'll get picks for anyone they trade. For 2011, they're looking at having a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th compensatory, 5th compensatory, 6th, and a 7th, according to Vikings Plus: A Look At The 2011 Vikings Draft So Far. Any trades they make will likely involve some 3rds.

 

[SpartaChris]

I'd absolutely go 4-12 for the next 5 years for a Super Bowl this year.

That's just my personal opinion, though.

And no, I'm not saying Minnesota will win it all. Though I think they have a very good look at it.

Why?

I'd rather field a competitive roster with a chance to win the Super Bowl this year and every other year than go all in on one shot at a title.

Folks, we still have a chance to win the Super Bowl THIS YEAR. We're not out of it by any stretch. Minnesota's addition of Moss doesn't guarantee them a win and a title. Don't forget, we're still a damn good team who has yet to play our best football. There's no reason why we can't win it all THIS YEAR. And next. And the year after that.

Can't say the same about the purple peehole eaters.

 

[Jess]

Why?

I'd rather field a competitive roster with a chance to win the Super Bowl this year and every other year than go all in on one shot at a title.

Folks, we still have a chance to win the Super Bowl THIS YEAR. We're not out of it by any stretch. Minnesota's addition of Moss doesn't guarantee them a win and a title. Don't forget, we're still a damn good team who has yet to play our best football. There's no reason why we can't win it all THIS YEAR. And next. And the year after that.

Can't say the same about the purple peehole eaters.

If you're telling me I can have a Super Bowl this year or a shot at one for the next 5 years I'll take the sure thing every time.

Like walking into a casino and them giving you $20. You can either walk out up $20 or try to quintuple that money and potentially lose it.

 

[Croak]

I thought that too, but unfortunately, I think they'll be fine with draft picks. They got picks in the Sage trade and they'll get picks for any of the free agents they either choose to franchise or transition tag, and of course they'll get picks for anyone they trade. For 2011, they're looking at having a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 5th compensatory, 5th compensatory, 6th, and a 7th, according to Vikings Plus: A Look At The 2011 Vikings Draft So Far. Any trades they make will likely involve some 3rds.

Interesting. That means they only have two picks in the upper 3 of the rounds. That doesn't look too good to me. But you are right. They could try to dump some of the more expensive players for higher draft picks. Only time would tell then whether it was worth it.

 

[Croak]

If you're telling me I can have a Super Bowl this year or a shot at one for the next 5 years I'll take the sure thing every time.

Like walking into a casino and them giving you $20. You can either walk out up $20 or try to quintuple that money and potentially lose it.

Well what is really being said is you can have a *shot* at making it to the Super Bowl, but nothing guaranteed because of other competitive teams, and little to no chance at it for the next 5 years. This is basically what is going down with the Vikings right now.

 

[PackersRS]

If you're telling me I can have a Super Bowl this year or a shot at one for the next 5 years I'll take the sure thing every time.

Like walking into a casino and them giving you $20. You can either walk out up $20 or try to quintuple that money and potentially lose it.

Except you can't be sure. That is impossible.

The question is, what would you rather have:
Spend everything for a BETTER shot at the SB now and have the window closed for the foreseeable future

or

Don't spend everything, continue with this very good, but flawed team, and have a LOWER shot this year, but continue to have a shot in the foreseeable future, probably with an increased chance each and every year?

 

[Jess]

Except you can't be sure. That is impossible.

The question is, what would you rather have:
Spend everything for a BETTER shot at the SB now and have the window closed for the foreseeable future

or

Don't spend everything, continue with this very good, but flawed team, and have a LOWER shot this year, but continue to have a shot in the foreseeable future, probably with an increased chance each and every year?

See, now there is where I'm with Ted.

 

[SpartaChris]

Signing Moss doesn't guarantee the Vikings a trophy this season. Does it help their chances more than hurt them? Sure, absolutely.

To be honest, I think we still have as as good a shot to win as they do. They have some play makers that are better than us while we have some that are better than theirs.

The bright side for us though is we're in the enviable position of being able to have it all THIS year, NEXT year and the year after. They can't say the same. They're risking it all for THIS year while leaving open to failure next year and for the next couple after that.

And to help bolster my point that the Vikings may not be as good this year as last, I present you with this:

FavreWatch: The conspicuously iced elbow - NFC North Blog - ESPN

Without reading too much into things, the signs of aging are definitely showing now whereas they weren't before. This could be a much tougher season for Favre and co. than anyone thought.

Or they could just steamroll everyone from here on out and we'll all blow our brains out.

 

[jrpack]

All the fans seem to think the "chips all in" is the way to go. You'd think a lot of them would be old enough to remember the Herschel Walker trade. How'd that go for them? The Vikes have a history of trading their future for a one year shot. Yes, it was a miracle Favre played like he did last year, but no one seems to see the long term negative affects of that deal either. Well at least Moss and Favre can help carry each other's head around.

 

[TampaPacMan]

The owner of the ChokeKings is so desperate to win a title, that I think he would sell his family into slavery if he thought it would guarantee a championship. What I find amusing, is these are the Minnesota Chokekings we're talking about! There's a reason why I've given them that nickname, and they've lived up to it for fifty years! I don't care how impressive a roster they assemble, it doesn't matter how much the national media fawns over them, at some point they will ah Choke!

 

[jrpack]

The owner of the ChokeKings is so desperate to win a title, that I think he would sell his family into slavery if he thought it would guarantee a championship. What I find amusing, is these are the Minnesota Chokekings we're talking about! There's a reason why I've given them that nickname, and they've lived up to it for fifty years! I don't care how impressive a roster they assemble, it doesn't matter how much the national media fawns over them, at some point they will ah Choke!

They already sold Chilli, remember the airport? :viksux:

 

[randymoonsthepacks]

The owner of the ChokeKings is so desperate to win a title, that I think he would sell his family into slavery if he thought it would guarantee a championship. What I find amusing, is these are the Minnesota Chokekings we're talking about! There's a reason why I've given them that nickname, and they've lived up to it for fifty years! I don't care how impressive a roster they assemble, it doesn't matter how much the national media fawns over them, at some point they will ah Choke!

I'd much rather have Zygi Wilf in charge than Ted Thompson. You won't find many Viking's fans that don't like Zygi, while on the other hand you can LOTS of Puker fans that that like TT. I don't know why everyone thinks the Vikings are mortgaging the future for Moss, it is a THIRD ROUNDER!!! Not a big deal. And we get a 7th rounder in return. A 3rd for Moss and a 7th. Not a bad deal at all.

 

[Croak]

I'd much rather have Zygi Wilf in charge than Ted Thompson. You won't find many Viking's fans that don't like Zygi, while on the other hand you can LOTS of Puker fans that that like TT. I don't know why everyone thinks the Vikings are mortgaging the future for Moss, it is a THIRD ROUNDER!!! Not a big deal. And we get a 7th rounder in return. A 3rd for Moss and a 7th. Not a bad deal at all.

You should see my other post regarding third rounders. The third round is still the upper tier of a 7 round draft. The Patriots have built their organization by hoarding 1st through 3rd round picks and using them instead of a lot of free agency. On occasion they dip into free agency, but they normally build through the top three rounds of the draft. Joe Montana was drafted in the third round. What if the Vikings just traded away the next Joe Montana? Considering their quarterback question will be a big one next year.

 

[randymoonsthepacks]

You should see my other post regarding third rounders. The third round is still the upper tier of a 7 round draft. The Patriots have built their organization by hoarding 1st through 3rd round picks and using them instead of a lot of free agency. On occasion they dip into free agency, but they normally build through the top three rounds of the draft. Joe Montana was drafted in the third round. What if the Vikings just traded away the next Joe Montana? Considering their quarterback question will be a big one next year.

By that logic, keep all your 6th rounders because you might trade away the next Tom Brady.


I realize that 3rd rounders can be valuable, and are valuable, but people are talking about it like the Vikings have no future because we gave away a 3rd rounder for a WR that can help us immensely this year and possibly in the next 2-3 years.

I think most of Vikings nation would agree with me when I say that we better be drafting a QB in the first two rounds, not the 3rd or later.

 

[Emperor_Xyn]

You should see my other post regarding third rounders. The third round is still the upper tier of a 7 round draft. The Patriots have built their organization by hoarding 1st through 3rd round picks and using them instead of a lot of free agency. On occasion they dip into free agency, but they normally build through the top three rounds of the draft. Joe Montana was drafted in the third round. What if the Vikings just traded away the next Joe Montana? Considering their quarterback question will be a big one next year.

To be honest I think its fair to say the Vikings will be taking a quarterback the 1st or MAYBE 2nd round. I get your point though.

 

[SpartaChris]

I'd much rather have Zygi Wilf in charge than Ted Thompson. You won't find many Viking's fans that don't like Zygi, while on the other hand you can LOTS of Puker fans that that like TT. I don't know why everyone thinks the Vikings are mortgaging the future for Moss, it is a THIRD ROUNDER!!! Not a big deal. And we get a 7th rounder in return. A 3rd for Moss and a 7th. Not a bad deal at all.

Of course you would, you're a Vikings homer. You probably prefer Childress instead of anyone else too.

A lot of "Packer" fans don't like Ted Thompson not because of his draft philosophy, but because he traded Favre. They still haven't gotten over it and it's doubtful they ever will.

That said, be honest, whose position would you rather be in? A team with a good chance to compete this year and the next several, or a team with a good chance to compete this year and that's it for the next couple?

If you picked option A, you picked our position. If you picked B, you picked yours. Sorry, but the signing of Moss doesn't automatically guarantee you a ring or a division title. You still have to play the games.

 

[SpartaChris]

I realize that 3rd rounders can be valuable, and are valuable, but people are talking about it like the Vikings have no future because we gave away a 3rd rounder for a WR that can help us immensely this year and possibly in the next 2-3 years.

Unless you sign Favre for the nest 2-3 years, you're not gonna have Moss. There's a reason why Moss wanted to ensure that the Vikings wouldn't tag him at the end of this season.

I agree trading one 3rd rounder next year isn't the be all, end all for the Vikings, especially when you consider the number of veteran free agents the Vikings will have next season. Most won't be able to be resigned, some will have to be released while I'm sure some will be able to be traded for at least a 3rd pick.

The bigger problem that I think could plague the Vikings for the next couple years is the number of veterans they'll have to part ways with that are going to be replaced with relative rookies. I posted a list, somewhere in this thread I think, of 2011 free agents for the Vikings. That number is in double digits.

 

[PackersRS]

I'd much rather have Zygi Wilf in charge than Ted Thompson. You won't find many Viking's fans that don't like Zygi, while on the other hand you can LOTS of Puker fans that that like TT. I don't know why everyone thinks the Vikings are mortgaging the future for Moss, it is a THIRD ROUNDER!!! Not a big deal. And we get a 7th rounder in return. A 3rd for Moss and a 7th. Not a bad deal at all.

It's not just about the pick.

It's also about the Money. And you know that, with the contract restructured, they can't tag him, right? If he gets a better deal, he'll smply walk away, and you'll have lost the 3rd rounder. And if you don't win the SB, will it be worth it?

Okay, you CAN re-sign him, but what about Rice? Won't he want top dollar also? Do you pay those guys that kind of money? Not to mention the other soon-to-be FAs.

IF you want the SB, everything will be fine. But if not, and that's the most possible scenario, your next offseason will be a very hard one.

 

[randymoonsthepacks]

Of course you would, you're a Vikings homer. You probably prefer Childress instead of anyone else too.

A lot of "Packer" fans don't like Ted Thompson not because of his draft philosophy, but because he traded Favre. They still haven't gotten over it and it's doubtful they ever will.

That said, be honest, whose position would you rather be in? A team with a good chance to compete this year and the next several, or a team with a good chance to compete this year and that's it for the next couple?

If you picked option A, you picked our position. If you picked B, you picked yours. Sorry, but the signing of Moss doesn't automatically guarantee you a ring or a division title. You still have to play the games.

LOL. This post alone shows how ignorant you are the the way Vikings fans think. I absolutely HATE Brad Childress. The vikings forum I post on has an "Official Fire Brad Childress Thread" that is over 2 years old with 2000+ posts on it. I hardly have a homer mentality. I would take Aaron Rodgers over Brett Favre, I would take Clay Matthews over Ben Leber, and I would take nearly any coach in the league over Brad Childress.

And why does everyone assume that it's over for the Vikings after this year? We have young RBs, young WRs, a decent o-line, a great defense that will be great for years to come, and in that defense we have three young talented corners in Cook, Griffen, and Allen. We have an excellent LB core, and the only real weakness on our defense would be our safeties who have actually played much better this year thanks to Abdullah starting over Johnson.

The only knocks on our team are our QB situation, our Safeties, and our o-line. I think our o-line is the biggest weakness, but its just as bad/good as the Packers o-line.

Don't go saying I that I'm just some homer, when in reality I know what players I would take over the Vikings players, and I know what players I wouldn't take over the Vikings.

 

[randymoonsthepacks]

And isn't one of the biggest knocks on TT that he is stubborn and refuses to pursue players through free agency or trade? As evidenced by his lack of pursuit of Marshawn Lynch and the fact that almost all packer fans were/are angry at him about it?

 

[jrpack]

LOL. This post alone shows how ignorant you are the the way Vikings fans think. I absolutely HATE Brad Childress. The vikings forum I post on has an "Official Fire Brad Childress Thread" that is over 2 years old with 2000+ posts on it. I hardly have a homer mentality. I would take Aaron Rodgers over Brett Favre, I would take Clay Matthews over Ben Leber, and I would take nearly any coach in the league over Brad Childress.

And why does everyone assume that it's over for the Vikings after this year? We have young RBs, young WRs, a decent o-line, a great defense that will be great for years to come, and in that defense we have three young talented corners in Cook, Griffen, and Allen. We have an excellent LB core, and the only real weakness on our defense would be our safeties who have actually played much better this year thanks to Abdullah starting over Johnson.

The only knocks on our team are our QB situation, our Safeties, and our o-line. I think our o-line is the biggest weakness, but its just as bad/good as the Packers o-line.

Don't go saying I that I'm just some homer, when in reality I know what players I would take over the Vikings players, and I know what players I wouldn't take over the Vikings.

I do agree that most of my friends who are Viking fans hate Childress, and have since day one. But I don't agree that just because the fans like Zygi, it makes him a good manager. Show me a manager that that is loved by all and I'll show you a manager that doesn't have the kahunas to make the tough calls, to the detriment of the team. Thompson doesn't give a rats a** what the fans think of him.

 

[SpartaChris]

And why does everyone assume that it's over for the Vikings after this year? We have young RBs, young WRs, a decent o-line, a great defense that will be great for years to come, and in that defense we have three young talented corners in Cook, Griffen, and Allen. We have an excellent LB core, and the only real weakness on our defense would be our safeties who have actually played much better this year thanks to Abdullah starting over Johnson.

Well, because in all likelihood, it is over for the Vikings after this year, at least for a couple seasons. While I can't dispute your running game, you have a horrible o-line and a mediocre at best QB in Tarvaris. Cook just tore his meniscus again today, so already his health is becoming a factor for what is largely believed to be a soft secondary.