Mike McCarthy Getting Unfairly Blamed For Injuries, Bad Kicking And Team Youth

[Mondio]

This is a good question.

He's running at nearly 6 yards a clip.

Because hell go for 12 then he’ll go for 0. I think he was o fo1 in pass attempts and there were two occasions when I saw him in and he didn’t recognize the blizer(s) and it hurt us.

He’s explosive, don’t think I don’t like him, but he has his limitations.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Because hell go for 12 then he’ll go for 0. I think he was o fo1 in pass attempts and there were two occasions when I saw him in and he didn’t recognize the blizer(s) and it hurt us.

He’s explosive, don’t think I don’t like him, but he has his limitations.

They all have limits but it's an exaggeration to say he goes for 12 or 0. He's much better running the ball than Williams or Ty. He's not as good as Williams at pass blocking yes, but that's really not a great reason for only having the guy on the field for 19 snaps.

 

[Mondio]

Yes he’s better at running the ball, and let’s quit acting like the other guys don’t bring anything to the offense. I have a feeling if Jones was “the guy” everyone would be disappointed. He is the best runner in some situations, that’s obvious, but he limits this offense too. I’d say an intentional grounding as a result of him not recognizing a free blitzer is a good reason he’s not on the field more. Especially last night

And I wasn’t giving his actual stat line, but he had only a handful of runs last night and ripped off like 30 yards on 2 carries. There weren’t a whole lot more to average out and he didn’t average 15ypc.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would love to hear the reason that Aaron Jones got 19 snaps in this game. Last week it was because the game was out of hand early. This game was really close. So why is the best RB on the team STILL playing so little?

I would like Jones to receive more carries as well but on the other hand he's a liability in the passing game.

I know you like PFF's grades, they had him rated as the worst of the three running backs vs. the Niners by a wide margin.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I would like Jones to receive more carries as well but on the other hand he's a liability in the passing game.

I know you like PFF's grades, they had him rated as the worst of the three running backs vs. the Niners by a wide margin.

Which is why I also agree that PFF is not the end-all-be-all. I'm just talking about the fact that, as a runner, Jones is the best guy on the team by a wide margin. I'm not saying he should have the job all to himself but I do not understand why he's only on the field for 19 snaps in a close game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Which is why I also agree that PFF is not the end-all-be-all.

So what you're saying is that you only care about PFF's grades as long as they fit your narrative???

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

While pass blocking is an important quality to have, I'd contend Montgomery stinks in that regard as well. Like I said, I'm ok with making sure Williams is given his fair shake, but Montgomery needs to get no more carries, and if he's used, use him only as a Theo Rid**** guy.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While pass blocking is an important quality to have, I'd contend Montgomery stinks in that regard as well. Like I said, I'm ok with making sure Williams is given his fair shake, but Montgomery needs to get no more carries, and if he's used, use him only as a Theo Rid**** guy.

Montgomery has been an above average pass blocker for most of his career.

Please, take a look at his 14-yard run that started the game winning drive. He deserves to get carries moving forward solely based pn that run.

 

[Mondio]

Which is why I also agree that PFF is not the end-all-be-all. I'm just talking about the fact that, as a runner, Jones is the best guy on the team by a wide margin. I'm not saying he should have the job all to himself but I do not understand why he's only on the field for 19 snaps in a close game.

if a guy misses his blitz pick up that results in a sack and 10 yard loss, does that merit more time? Do you know what 10 yard losses from penalty or play do to scoring chances and drives? It kills them.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So what you're saying is that you only care about PFF's grades as long as they fit your narrative???

What?! Where the heck did I say that?! I was just saying that I trust them to tell me if a guy is playing well. Like, HHCD; I don't watch the coaches film of every team, every week so if PFF says that HHCD is one of the better safeties in the NFL, I'll buy that. I won't necessarily believe he's the 7th best (for this example we're pretending that 7th best is where they have HHCD ranked) but I'll believe he's really good relative to other safeties.

Aaron Jones, for the season, has been a higher rated RB than the others on the team. I don't look at one game (in which a guy got 19 snaps) and make broad judgments based on that.

I don't know what I said that offended you so much but I sincerely apologize for whatever it was.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

if a guy misses his blitz pick up that results in a sack and 10 yard loss, does that merit more time? Do you know what 10 yard losses from penalty or play do to scoring chances and drives? It kills them.

Gee, so that's the only thing we consider? You're right, if Aaron Jones sole contribution to the offense was to lose 10 yards and get Rodgers hit, then no, I don't believe that merits more time.

My goodness. People actually think the best RB on the team only needs to be on the field for 19 snaps?! There are other ways to avoid putting him in pass protection if that's the ONLY argument people have against him.

 

[Mondio]

No, there’s also the argument that not everything he does is golden with the football and 2 other guys have played pretty important roles in this offense this year. Monday night included.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

No, there’s also the argument that not everything he does is golden with the football and 2 other guys have played pretty important roles in this offense this year. Monday night included.

Not many have argued that Jones needs to be the ONLY running back used. Most are simply pointing out that his talent would indicate he shouldn't be on the field the LEAST.

 

[Mondio]

By the end of the year he probably won’t be the guy on the field the least. But injurybin TC, suspension and early season game situations have led to that so far. If we’re running 60-70 offensive plays, 19 is probably about what they can all expect give or take a couple.

 

[swhitset]

They all have limits but it's an exaggeration to say he goes for 12 or 0. He's much better running the ball than Williams or Ty. He's not as good as Williams at pass blocking yes, but that's really not a great reason for only having the guy on the field for 19 snaps.

it’s not?... So.. let’s think about that. If the call is a pass play you would like to have a poor pass blocking running back in to pick up the blitz protecting Rodgers (who incidentally is already playing on a bad leg). You did notice that the niners were bringing pressure on virtually every play right? So I suppose you will say only put him in to called running plays .... I’m pretty sure the defense would pick up on that pretty quickly.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

it’s not?... So.. let’s think about that. If the call is a pass play you would like to have a poor pass blocking running back in to pick up the blitz protecting Rodgers (who incidentally is already playing on a bad leg). You did notice that the niners were bringing pressure on virtually every play right? So I suppose you will say only put him in to called running plays .... I’m pretty sure the defense would pick up on that pretty quickly.

Or you could motion the RB into an outside WR position, forcing the defense to show Rodgers what kind of coverage they're playing and he could make a quick throw to beat the blitz. Are we now arguing that pass-blocking is more important than actually running for a running back?!

I'll just point this out...James White has played 211 snaps for the Pats and he's pass blocked on 10 snaps; so, if New England can avoid putting their RBs into pass protection, why is it an absolute requirement for the Packers' running backs? People talk about Aaron Jones as if pass protection is the primary role of a RB when it's something they do VERY rarely.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Some great analysis of Jones at https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/10/17/17987530/misused-underused-players

Highlights include:
Packers have faced the second-most third-and-long (7+ yards) in the NFL this year
Packers are averaging 9.12 yards to go on their 83 third-down plays (worst in the NFL)
Packers average 3.24 yards per carry on second down (2nd worst in NFL)
However, Aaron Jones averages 4.89 ypc on 2nd down while Williams averages 3.67 ypc and Ty only 2.0 ypc
Jones, in only 32 rushing attempts, LEADS THE TEAM IN BROKEN TACKLES with nine

But please, tell me more about his 5 pass blocking snaps and how they've hurt the offense.

 

[Mondio]

Some great analysis of Jones at https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/10/17/17987530/misused-underused-players

Highlights include:
Packers have faced the second-most third-and-long (7+ yards) in the NFL this year
Packers are averaging 9.12 yards to go on their 83 third-down plays (worst in the NFL)
Packers average 3.24 yards per carry on second down (2nd worst in NFL)
However, Aaron Jones averages 4.89 ypc on 2nd down while Williams averages 3.67 ypc and Ty only 2.0 ypc
Jones, in only 32 rushing attempts, LEADS THE TEAM IN BROKEN TACKLES with nine

But please, tell me more about his 5 pass blocking snaps and how they've hurt the offense.

I think in the Detroit game Williams rushed on 1st and 10 for 4 yards. 2nd and 6 and Jones goes for 1. 1st two plays of the game.

Williams has by far been the most consistent. Many times there’s nothing and he’ll get 3 or so.

To continue in Detroit, next 2nd down Williams goes for 6 on a second and 10. Then in a first and 15 Jones goes for -1.

Let’s not pretend all he does is gain yards.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think in the Detroit game Williams rushed on 1st and 10 for 4 yards. 2nd and 6 and Jones goes for 1. 1st two plays of the game.

Williams has by far been the most consistent. Many times there’s nothing and he’ll get 3 or so.

To continue in Detroit, next 2nd down Williams goes for 6 on a second and 10. Then in a first and 15 Jones goes for -1.

Let’s not pretend all he does is gain yards.

First, one game proves nothing so let's look at their careers with actual production:

The main difference between the two is that Jones will gain large chunks of yards at a much higher rate than Williams.

Jones has gained 10+ yards on a carry 19 times on 113 carries in his two seasons. Jamaal Williams has gained 10+ yards on a single carry 11 times on 212 carries. So, every 5.9 carries, Jones gets a good chunk of yards. Williams gets that every 19.2 carries (That's a pretty massive difference)

Let's move the bar to carries of 15+ yards. Jones has 12 of those...Williams has 1.

Now, to address your consistency argument. Jamaal Williams, in 212 carries carries has carried the ball for zero or fewer yards 37 times, Aaron Jones, in 113 career carries, has gained zero or fewer yards on 19 carries. So, the amazingly consistent Williams gains nothing or loses yards every 5.7 carries. The wildly inconsistent Jones gains nothing or loses yards every 5.9 carries. WOW. The difference is amazing.

So, in summary, 0.2 carries more often Jones gets zero or negative yardage (I'm no statistician but that doesn't seem like much) while Jones gets large chunks of yards almost four TIMES as often (every 5.9 carries vs every 19.2 carries).

 

[Mondio]

First, one game proves nothing so let's look at their careers with actual production:

The main difference between the two is that Jones will gain large chunks of yards at a much higher rate than Williams.

Jones has gained 10+ yards on a carry 19 times on 113 carries in his two seasons. Jamaal Williams has gained 10+ yards on a single carry 11 times on 212 carries. So, every 5.9 carries, Jones gets a good chunk of yards. Williams gets that every 19.2 carries (That's a pretty massive difference)

Let's move the bar to carries of 15+ yards. Jones has 12 of those...Williams has 1.

Now, to address your consistency argument. Jamaal Williams, in 212 carries carries has carried the ball for zero or fewer yards 37 times, Aaron Jones, in 113 career carries, has gained zero or fewer yards on 19 carries. So, the amazingly consistent Williams gains nothing or loses yards every 5.7 carries. The wildly inconsistent Jones gains nothing or loses yards every 5.9 carries. WOW. The difference is amazing.

So, in summary, 0.2 carries more often Jones gets zero or negative yardage (I'm no statistician but that doesn't seem like much) while Jones gets large chunks of yards almost four TIMES as often (every 5.9 carries vs every 19.2 carries).

my one game summary wasn't proving anything other than Jones isn't god with the ball and there is more to being a running back than some explosive runs. I watch the games too, Williams gets the ball in tough yard situations more than Jones too. They're used differently, as they should be. you brought up some state about how Jones was superior on 2nd down. I found it funny that I specifically remembered the beginning of the game against Detroit and he got stoned for nothing on good run or passing down. Take it for what you will.

You can dig up all the stats you want. Nobody is debating who is the more explosive runner. We all know who it is. But then there is so much more to playing RB than running the ball, ESPECIALLY when Rodgers is your QB. I'd really hate to make this offense go thru Jones, we'd probably be pretty disappointed.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

my one game summary wasn't proving anything other than Jones isn't god with the ball and there is more to being a running back than some explosive runs. I watch the games too, Williams gets the ball in tough yard situations more than Jones too. They're used differently, as they should be. you brought up some state about how Jones was superior on 2nd down. I found it funny that I specifically remembered the beginning of the game against Detroit and he got stoned for nothing on good run or passing down. Take it for what you will.

You can dig up all the stats you want. Nobody is debating who is the more explosive runner. We all know who it is. But then there is so much more to playing RB than running the ball, ESPECIALLY when Rodgers is your QB. I'd really hate to make this offense go thru Jones, we'd probably be pretty disappointed.

Yes, there is more to running the ball. BUT RUNNING IS THE MAIN THING!! James White for the Patriots has played 210 snaps and pass blocked for 10 of those snaps. Alvin Kamara has played 260 snaps and pass blocked 11 times. So can we stop pretending that pass blocking is something that running backs are doing all the time?! A well designed offense will do things to play to a player's strengths. If you're concerned about Jones pass blocking, then don't have him pass block!

And the offense should, and will, always go through Rodgers. It just doesn't make sense to have the team's best running back (when judging the position on what they do 90% of the time) on the bench because, for some ridiculous reason, we're concerned he's not as good as Williams for the ONE snap a game he's asked to pass block.

 

[Mondio]

it isn't the only reason, we've been thru this. i'm not rehashing it.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

it isn't the only reason, we've been thru this. i'm not rehashing it.

Yes, you've also stated that Jones is not as consistent a runner as Williams, which the actual numbers don't show. Other than that all I hear is "PASS BLOCKING, PASS BLOCKING, PASS BLOCKING" and that makes ZERO sense since Jones should only be in pass protection about twice a game if he was actually on the field more.

 

[Mondio]

I hope Jones gets 25+ carries for the next 4 weeks, then we can see. Go find me more numbers. Last game he ripped off a big one, had a short TD, then dropped a pass, had a short one, had a big one then a couple no gainers and a loss. Tell me what I saw. That's from freaking memory. Go get a down by down synopsis of what he did last game. He has limitations. and i'm not buying these pass blocking numbers either. The backs are blocking or helping on more than 5 -6 plays per game.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I hope Jones gets 25+ carries for the next 4 weeks, then we can see. Go find me more numbers. Last game he ripped off a big one, had a short TD, then dropped a pass, had a short one, had a big one then a couple no gainers and a loss. Tell me what I saw. That's from freaking memory. Go get a down by down synopsis of what he did last game. He has limitations. and i'm not buying these pass blocking numbers either. The backs are blocking or helping on more than 5 -6 plays per game.

I agree that the backs are blocking 5-6 plays a game. I'm not saying that Jones needs to be on the field EVERY play, but he could easily be the guy on the field for 30 snaps with Williams and Ty splitting the other 40 snaps. That way you're only asking Jones to pass block, maybe, twice a game, and you give him more of a role in the offense. It doesn't have to be absolutes, that's NOT what I'm trying to prove. I'm just trying to show evidence that Jones is a much better runner when given the chance and this offense, the way it's currently playing, needs more dynamic players on the field cause Adams and Rodgers can't do it all by themselves.