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John Dorsey and the Cleveland Browns

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by Dblbogey, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Dblbogey

    Dblbogey Cheesehead

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    Interesting to see Cleveland continue to flounder after they raided the Packers personnel department a few years ago. I heard Dorsey give a talk about 8 years ago. He struck me as not a real sharp guy. I know Cleveland fired him, but was wondering if Wolf is still there or any of the former Packers personnel. Maybe Gute was the right choice. Anyway, next time the Packers lose, remember at least you aren't a Browns fan.
     
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  2. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

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    Wolf is with the Pats.

    Probably couldn't get out of Cleveland fast enough.
     
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  3. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    As far as I can tell no former members of the Packers front office are still with the Browns.
     
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  4. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Eliot Wolf was the fan’s choice because of his last name. I’m pleased with Gutekunst so far. I think we’re in good shape right now and feel that the transition went very smoothly.
     
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  5. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Gutekunst has made some great free agent signings but the too early returns of his draft classes have been underwhelming. On top of it, this year's class has the potential to be a disaster.
     
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  6. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Kind of like Aaron Rodgers 2005 draft class, eh?

    Let’s not kid ourselves. Every draft class for every team in the league has the potential to be a disaster.
     
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  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    The issue I had with Wolf was there was little evidence that he was good or bad at his job. He spent the preponderance of his time in Green Bay in pro personnel. While we don't know how many excellent reports he might have written on upcoming free agents or guys on the street, those reports lay moribund in Thompson's in box. I think Gutekunst has run more veteran players through workouts, the practice squad and/or the roster in his brief two and a fraction seasons than Thompson did in a decade.

    In one of Thompson's last years he commented that all hands are on deck for draft scouting. That certainly wouldn't recommend the talents of any of the pro personnel guys without knowin who was pounding the table for whom.

    Whatever prescient Wolfian table-thumping for this player or that might have gone unheeded, Murphy certainly was not aware of it or impressed by it.

    Wolf is now working for Hoodie as a consultant. There's no place in the NFL that has been more active in turning over veterans and trading up and down the draft board. Whatever Wolf is capable of Belchick is probably the best guy to figure that out.
     
  8. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    While there are similarities between this year's Packers' draft class and the one from 2005 it's completely unrealistic to expect it to work out the same way for different reasons.

    It would have been much smarter to address current positions of need.

    True, but Gutekunst using the team's first four picks on backups significantly increased that risk.
     
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  9. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Lol, I guess time will tell if you’re much smarter than Gutekunst in terms of GM duties although I think I already know the answer.
     
  10. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I never said anything about being smarter than Gutekunst. But it's mind-boggling that you don't realize he made some at least questionable moves in this year's draft.

    It's not surprising though as you were adamant about Thompson being right about everything as long as he was the team's general manager as well.
     
  11. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    nobody gets them all right. I can't say I liked the QB in the first this year, the rest i'm ok with. Though if he develops into a good NFL QB, it was a great pick. I didn't really like the Wagner or Turner signings or Graham. But Amos, Smith and Smith I'd say were pretty good. I think drafts have been pretty good overall. Obviously hasn't hit on all of them. He's off to a pretty decent start in my book.
     
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  12. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    As mentioned before Gutekunst has done a marvelous job in free agency although not all of his signings have worked out as planned.

    I don't agree he has been pretty good in the draft so far though.
     
  13. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It certainly raised my eyebrows when he traded up to pick Jordan Love until I saw video on Love and heard that some thought he had the best arm talent in this QB class. Then I realized that this is the guy Gutekunst wants to take over from Rodgers in a few years. The Dillon and Deguara picks just confirmed that we are moving into the LaFleur offense which is very different from the McCarthy offense.

    just because I wasn’t a Thompson hater like many here, doesn’t mean that I agreed with everything he did. I never saw Dix as a first round talent. Although I was late to the party, I think Thompson should have insisted that McCarthy fire Capers and if he refused, then Thompson should have fired McCarthy as well. At what point should this have happened? Not sure, but no doubt I was a late arrival to jump on the fire Capers bandwagon. I think seeing Hyde and Hayward flourish elsewhere immediately, cemented my belief that Capers was misusing his players. I also questioned the Raji pick because I feel he had some basic character flaws that could have been picked up by Thompson and his scouting staff. In retrospect, I feel Capers is much to blame for misusing Raji as well.

    So, you see, I didn’t agree with everything Thompson did, but I was certainly not a hater.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  14. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    Yeah, I think a lot of it was misuse of players and not putting players in positions to do better. But the inability to do much adjusting on D and the overuse of the 3 man rush was bad. Also bad was giving up so many 3rd and longs. So I guess I had more of a problem with Capers. But in a real sense, that was Thompson's responsibility also.
     
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  15. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, ultimately it is Thompson’s responsibility. In retrospect, he gave McCarthy too long a leash.
     
  16. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I'm sorry but there's no way to convince me it was a smart idea to use the team's first four picks on backups in this year's draft after the team made it to the NFCCG last season.

    Gutekunst should have addressed current positions of need instead.

    As a side note, while I criticized Thompson more often than others I definitely wasn't a hater either.
     
  17. gopkrs

    gopkrs Cheesehead

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    And McCarthy was set in his ways to a fault. His time in Dallas will be interesting. He has a lot to work with.
     
  18. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    He's only had 2 drafts and you can't really gauge how good a draft is for a couple of years down the line.
     
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  19. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    True, but the early returns haven't been that impressive.
     
  20. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think he’s had 3 drafts now, he drafted Alexander, correct?
     
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  21. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    yes, 3, but only 2 have really had a chance to show anything
     
  22. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, and I like the early returns on the first two drafts.
     
  23. Jerellh528

    Jerellh528 Cheesehead

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    yup, like if Aaron Jones doesn’t walk after this season, the Dillion pick was pointless.
     
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  24. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    Yeah because its not like we've seen teams be able to utilize two backs that have different skill sets.... (cough cough Kamara/Ingram).........

    Btw I still say let Jones walk
     
  25. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Hmmm, the 2018 draft yielded Alexander and MVS. Other than that it seems the draft class doesn't even include a decent backup.

    It's too early to fairly evaluate last year's selections but Jenkins is a stud. The development of Gary and Savage will go a long way towards Gutekunst's first two drafts being a success.

    I have repeatedly stated that I consider this year's class to be a head scratcher. Love not even being able to beat out Boyle for the backup job isn't a good sign to start with.

    Even if Jones walks away in free agency after this season it was pointless to use the second rounder on a backup as well.

    Gutekust should have addressed the running back position next year if they don't re-sign Jones.
     

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