John Dorsey and the Cleveland Browns

[PikeBadger]

Hmmm, the 2018 draft yielded Alexander and MVS. Other than that it seems the draft class doesn't even include a decent backup.

It's too early to fairly evaluate last year's selections but Jenkins is a stud. The development of Gary and Savage will go a long way towards Gutekunst's first two drafts being a success.

I have repeatedly stated that I consider this year's class to be a head scratcher. Love not even being able to beat out Boyle for the backup job isn't a good sign to start with.



Even if Jones walks away in free agency after this season it was pointless to use the second rounder on a backup as well.

Gutekust should have addressed the running back position next year if they don't re-sign Jones.

I consider post draft Udfa’s a part of the draft class, essentially 8th round picks. We’ve got 3 playing important roles from the 2018 class alone plus you didn’t include JK Scott and Hunter Bradley. Nor did you give any credence to Burks, Jackson and St. Brown. Those 3 may, or may not make it. Jury is out on all three.

 

[Jerellh528]

Yeah because its not like we've seen teams be able to utilize two backs that have different skill sets.... (cough cough Kamara/Ingram).........

Btw I still say let Jones walk

Well, we spent a second round pick on a backup’s backup who is currently getting like 2 carries a game. I don’t see him being utilized in either a kamara or ingram role on sundays, but even so, a second round pick on a running back is a pretty steep price in itself, never mind a backup’s backup. I don’t want them to re-sign Jones either, paying a rb is just a dumb decision imo. I would rather they start Dillion next season and re-sign Williams to a small contract than re-signing Jones.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Well, we spent a second round pick on a backup’s backup who is currently getting like 2 carries a game. I don’t see him being utilized in either a kamara or ingram role on sundays, but even so, a second round pick on a running back is a pretty steep price in itself, never mind a backup’s backup. I don’t want them to re-sign Jones either, paying a rb is just a dumb decision imo. I would rather they start Dillion next season and re-sign Williams to a small contract than re-signing Jones.

Pointless to sign Dillon? Cmon man. Think about it. We have insurance at a point of emphasis for LaFleur's offense. Not only that, having draft capital at the position likely gave Jones zero leverage for a hold-out this season considering Kamara and Cook both threatened the same. And if he pans out we have a top 1-2 punch at RB in the league (likely won't beat Chubb and Hunt). Plenty of reasons to be optimistic about the pick.

 

[Jerellh528]

Pointless to sign Dillon? Cmon man. Think about it. We have insurance at a point of emphasis for LaFleur's offense. Not only that, having draft capital at the position likely gave Jones zero leverage for a hold-out this season considering Kamara and Cook both threatened the same. And if he pans out we have a top 1-2 punch at RB in the league (likely won't beat Chubb and Hunt). Plenty of reasons to be optimistic about the pick.

I don’t like the idea of spending a second rounder of insurance at a position where so many viable options have been drafted through the mid and later rounds Throughout the nfl.

 

[Dantés]

John Dorsey is garbage. He uses domestic violence as his competitive advantage. His "edge" is a willingness to sign or draft talented guys who beat women when other teams aren't willing or are at least must more hesitant to tolerate people like that.

May the Browns lose every game while he's in charge. Hopefully someone will break Tyreek Hill so thoroughly that he can't attack another woman or toddler for the rest of his life.

 

[GleefulGary]

Hmmm, the 2018 draft yielded Alexander and MVS. Other than that it seems the draft class doesn't even include a decent backup.

It's too early to fairly evaluate last year's selections but Jenkins is a stud. The development of Gary and Savage will go a long way towards Gutekunst's first two drafts being a success.

I have repeatedly stated that I consider this year's class to be a head scratcher. Love not even being able to beat out Boyle for the backup job isn't a good sign to start with.



Even if Jones walks away in free agency after this season it was pointless to use the second rounder on a backup as well.

Gutekust should have addressed the running back position next year if they don't re-sign Jones.

Who would've thought a rookie QB known to be raw, would struggle picking up an offense in a year without OTA's, limited training camp, and no pre-season. Shocker!!

Fwiw, Aaron Rodgers sucked in his first pre-season and training camp. They drafted a QB in the 2nd round shortly after taking him. Love not being the backup in this year means next to nothing.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I don’t like the idea of spending a second rounder of insurance at a position where so many viable options have been drafted through the mid and later rounds Throughout the nfl.

Such as? Look at the top backs in the nfl... McCaffrey, CEH, Jacobs, Elliott, Gordon, are first rounders.
Henry and Chubb a second, Kamara and Drake a 3rd.
Chris Carson 7th.

Sure there are the Chris Carson's of the world, but there's definitely a correlation between draft capital and productivity. By all accounts AJ was a guy they didn't want to miss out on, so if he pans out and earns more playing time and bulldozers his way to being our 1b back to Aaron Jones 1a then I'm all for it. A healthy running attack keeps our best weapon fresh (Rodgers) so plenty of positives come from Dillon being a Packer.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I consider post draft Udfa’s a part of the draft class, essentially 8th round picks. We’ve got 3 playing important roles from the 2018 class alone plus you didn’t include JK Scott and Hunter Bradley. Nor did you give any credence to Burks, Jackson and St. Brown. Those 3 may, or may not make it. Jury is out on all three.

It's true that undrafted free agents should be considered when evaluating a draft class. Scott and Bradley don't do much to move the needle though.

With Burks and Jackson hardly receiving snaps on defense in their third season the outlook isn't great for either of them. I agree the jury's still out on EQ although it's concerning he can't stay healthy.

Pointless to sign Dillon? Cmon man. Think about it. We have insurance at a point of emphasis for LaFleur's offense.

Dillon is currently fourth on the depth chart at running back. There was no reason to spend a second rounder on a player buried that deep on the depth chart.

John Dorsey is garbage.

May the Browns lose every game while he's in charge.

FYI Dorsey isn't with the Browns anymore.

Who would've thought a rookie QB known to be raw, would struggle picking up an offense in a year without OTA's, limited training camp, and no pre-season. Shocker!!

Fwiw, Aaron Rodgers sucked in his first pre-season and training camp. They drafted a QB in the 2nd round shortly after taking him. Love not being the backup in this year means next to nothing.

Love not being able to beat out an undrafted free agent who has thrown a total of four passes in the NFL isn't a good sign and further cements my opinion that it was a wasted pick.

It's mind-boggling that you really consider Gutekunst using his first two picks on a quarterback who can't even make the active roster and a running back only receiving snaps in garbage time instead of actually trying to improve the roster fir this season after makibg it to the NFCCG a decent approach.

While Rodgers struggled early in his career as well he was never inactive based on being behind another backup on the depth chart.

Such as? Look at the top backs in the nfl... McCaffrey, CEH, Jacobs, Elliott, Gordon, are first rounders.

It's too early to consider CEH a top running back and Gordon isn't one of them.

 

[GleefulGary]

You're just gonna completely ignore that they didn't have OTA's, pre-season, etc, aren't you?

Makes it a touch difficult there ol mate.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

It's true that undrafted free agents should be considered when evaluating a draft class. Scott and Bradley don't do much to move the needle though.

With Burks and Jackson hardly receiving snaps on defense in their third season the outlook isn't great for either of them. I agree the jury's still out on EQ although it's concerning he can't stay healthy.



Dillon is currently fourth on the depth chart at running back. There was no reason to spend a second rounder on a player buried that deep on the depth chart.



FYI Dorsey isn't with the Browns anymore.



Love not being able to beat out an undrafted free agent who has thrown a total of four passes in the NFL isn't a good sign and further cements my opinion that it was a wasted pick.

It's mind-boggling that you really consider Gutekunst using his first two picks on a quarterback who can't even make the active roster and a running back only receiving snaps in garbage time instead of actually trying to improve the roster fir this season after makibg it to the NFCCG a decent approach.

While Rodgers struggled early in his career as well he was never inactive based on being behind another backup on the depth chart.



It's too early to consider CEH a top running back and Gordon isn't one of them.

Rodgers was 3rd on the roster after he was drafted. Busted pick. Should have drafted Roddy White...
Gordon has produced at an elite level and CEH is going to have an incredible career assuming health. Both are granted their opportunities as a result of talent and draft capital. Yes, mid to late round guys can do ok, but they're outweighed significantly by those picked earlier in the draft. We're 2-0 and AJ is going to be worked in more as the year goes on.

 

[Mavster]

Melvin Gordon is no where near elite.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You're just gonna completely ignore that they didn't have OTA's, pre-season, etc, aren't you?

Makes it a touch difficult there ol mate.

Justin Herbert should work a evidence it's possible to overcome it. And before you claim he shouldn't be considered because he was drafted at #6 remember there were a lot of posters suggesting that Love was clearly the better prospect.

Rodgers was 3rd on the roster after he was drafted. Busted pick. Should have drafted Roddy White...

Rodgers was never inactive for a game during his rookie season and was the only other quarterback aside of Favre to throw a pass that season. Therefore I'm confident in saying he was never the third QB on the depth chart.

Gordon has produced at an elite level and CEH is going to have an incredible career assuming health. Both are granted their opportunities as a result of talent and draft capital. Yes, mid to late round guys can do ok, but they're outweighed significantly by those picked earlier in the draft. We're 2-0 and AJ is going to be worked in more as the year goes on.

Gordon ranks 28th in yards per attempt out of 37 running backs with at least 500 rushing attempts since being drafted in 2015. He hasn't been elite.

It's way too early to fairly evaluate CEH, he didn't put up impressive numbers vs. the Chargers by any means though.

It's true that early rounders have had more success at the position but it's more common for a running back drafted later to have success drafting running backs than at other positions. Aaron Jones being another example.

BTW with the way Jones and Williams are playing I don't see any need to increase Dillon's workload.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Justin Herbert should work a evidence it's possible to overcome it. And before you claim he shouldn't be considered because he was drafted at #6 remember there were a lot of posters suggesting that Love was clearly the better prospect.



Rodgers was never inactive for a game during his rookie season and was the only other quarterback aside of Favre to throw a pass that season. Therefore I'm confident in saying he was never the third QB on the depth chart.



Gordon ranks 28th in yards per attempt out of 37 running backs with at least 500 rushing attempts since being drafted in 2015. He hasn't been elite.

It's way too early to fairly evaluate CEH, he didn't put up impressive numbers vs. the Chargers by any means though.

It's true that early rounders have had more success at the position but it's more common for a running back drafted later to have success drafting running backs than at other positions. Aaron Jones being another example.

BTW with the way Jones and Williams are playing I don't see any need to increase Dillon's workload.

Gordon averages 4.0 yards per attempt and has scored 50 touchdowns as a three-down back in the league since 2015. Granted, he didn't do much in his rookie season. He is consistently amongst the most productive backs and a beast at the goal line. Put some respect on his name. He's not in a good situation this year, but you can't argue with his success with Rivers from 2016-2018. Holding out was not a good idea considering the talent they had at RB.

 

[Dantés]

Gordon averages 4.0 yards per attempt and has scored 50 touchdowns as a three-down back in the league since 2015. Granted, he didn't do much in his rookie season. He is consistently amongst the most productive backs and a beast at the goal line. Put some respect on his name. He's not in a good situation this year, but you can't argue with his success with Rivers from 2016-2018. Holding out was not a good idea considering the talent they had at RB.

As someone who literally watched every Melvin Gordon snap from 2015-2018, I would definitely argue with his "success."

He has one season in five where he managed to get above 3.9 YPC. He was incredibly inefficient for most of his time with the Chargers. His only consistently strong statistic was touchdowns, which are a function of the offense, not the player.

He was one of a long line of overrated Badger running backs who came out with more name than game, and that has allowed him to keep the reputation of being a great player despite not having much consistent success.

 

[GleefulGary]

Gordon's volume gave him production. He certainly wasn't efficient with his volume.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don’t like the idea of spending a second rounder of insurance at a position where so many viable options have been drafted through the mid and later rounds Throughout the nfl.

Dillon wasn't drafted for insurance. He was drafted to replace RBs in their contract years.

 

[Dblbogey]

Dillon wasn't drafted for insurance. He was drafted to replace RBs in their contract years.

And add quality depth immediately. I suspect Dillon will contribute more as the season goes on, especially when one of our two quality backs goes down with an injury.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Gordon averages 4.0 yards per attempt and has scored 50 touchdowns as a three-down back in the league since 2015. Granted, he didn't do much in his rookie season. He is consistently amongst the most productive backs and a beast at the goal line. Put some respect on his name. He's not in a good situation this year, but you can't argue with his success with Rivers from 2016-2018. Holding out was not a good idea considering the talent they had at RB.

Gordon is among the leaders in touchdowns since entering the league but other than that he hasn't been effective over his NFL career. He should definitely not be considered an elite running back.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Gordon is among the leaders in touchdowns since entering the league but other than that he hasn't been effective over his NFL career. He should definitely not be considered an elite running back.

So in your world you can score a ton of touchdowns, be amongst the league's leaders actually, and still not be considered a top back. Weird.

At any rate, my point stands. Draft capital means something. Not always, but most of the time. AJ will get his time to show what he can do, he has to or else Aaron Jones will price himself out of Green Bay. With his performance last week he may have already done so.

 

[swhitset]

So in your world you can score a ton of touchdowns, be amongst the league's leaders actually, and still not be considered a top back. Weird.

At any rate, my point stands. Draft capital means something. Not always, but most of the time. AJ will get his time to show what he can do, he has to or else Aaron Jones will price himself out of Green Bay. With his performance last week he may have already done so.

Nothing weird about it at all. A running back that has the ball handed to him on the 2 yard line and manages to get those 2 yards... scores a TD, but if he is only getting 2-3 yards in the middle of the field... that’s not so great. Without digging into the numbers (i’ll defer to someone like Captain Wimm for that) I suspect Gordon is slightly better than my example, but certainly not in the elite RB category.

 

[Dantés]

So in your world you can score a ton of touchdowns, be amongst the league's leaders actually, and still not be considered a top back. Weird.

At any rate, my point stands. Draft capital means something. Not always, but most of the time. AJ will get his time to show what he can do, he has to or else Aaron Jones will price himself out of Green Bay. With his performance last week he may have already done so.

Absolutely, you can score a lot of touchdowns and not be a top back. For a running back, scoring touchdowns is mostly a function of being in a good offense and getting a lot of volume.

Most of the time, touchdown leaders will be good running backs. Because if you're the running back getting a lot of volume in a good offense, chances are you're good. But not necessarily. You could just be the best option the team has.

Rivers carried a lousy roster for the Chargers for years and kept the offense fairly effective. Gordon got a lot of volume and hence scored a lot of touchdowns. He was fine, but never great.

 

[Mondio]

You can do better or worse than Gordon. Thought he was ok, not great

 

[gopkrs]

Nothing weird about it at all. A running back that has the ball handed to him on the 2 yard line and manages to get those 2 yards... scores a TD, but if he is only getting 2-3 yards in the middle of the field... that’s not so great. Without digging into the numbers (i’ll defer to someone like Captain Wimm for that) I suspect Gordon is slightly better than my example, but certainly not in the elite RB category.

Although it always amazes me that people look at stats w/o understanding that so much depends on the O line. And more.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Absolutely, you can score a lot of touchdowns and not be a top back. For a running back, scoring touchdowns is mostly a function of being in a good offense and getting a lot of volume.

Most of the time, touchdown leaders will be good running backs. Because if you're the running back getting a lot of volume in a good offense, chances are you're good. But not necessarily. You could just be the best option the team has.

Rivers carried a lousy roster for the Chargers for years and kept the offense fairly effective. Gordon got a lot of volume and hence scored a lot of touchdowns. He was fine, but never great.

The statements are "top back" and "elite production". You won't be able to convince me that a player with 50 touchdowns over 4 years is not a top back in the NFL. That's what you want from these guys. At the end of the day you want them to punch it into the endzone. He's done that better than most backs in the NFL. Aka, he's been a top back. Given that he's scored more TD's at the RB position than most other RB's, I'd say that's elite production. Now this year is a different story.

 

[Dantés]

The statements are "top back" and "elite production". You won't be able to convince me that a player with 50 touchdowns over 4 years is not a top back in the NFL. That's what you want from these guys. At the end of the day you want them to punch it into the endzone. He's done that better than most backs in the NFL. Aka, he's been a top back. Given that he's scored more TD's at the RB position than most other RB's, I'd say that's elite production. Now this year is a different story.

Ok, then I won't convince you.