Joe Whitt / Winston Moss FIRED - merged threads

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't know, i've never been in a single practice. and yes, injury is probably the overwhelming reason we've had poor secondary play over the years. Unless you're seeing teams with #4 DB's being starters and excelling i'm going to maintain that position. Especially in a year when your 2 "stud" olb's are mostly injured. Recipe for success right?. I'm not going to rehash every year. To me it's obvious. and former players saying someone is a good coach should mean something. It's certainly means more than someone who has never played for the man.

and so far this year there has been a fairly obvious improvement in the Defensive backfield despite being worse at OLB and safety. In fact i'd say the DB's, despite missing 2 guys fairly regularly has made our underwhelming pass rush look better by keeping coverages longer. So yeah, i'm going to let a season play out with some healthy guys under a new scheme before I go making declarations based on pass misconceptions. Unless you think of course Guys like Gunter are forming the backbone of every elite defensive backfield in the league?

This is one I agree to disagree with you I get what you are saying about injuries, but that is part of the game and some of the top pass defenses deal with them too. All the evidence I really need is the draft capital spent on the position hasn't been anywhere equal to the level of play we are seeing produced. Now with King, Alexander and Jackson being recent picks, I would rather see a new coach come in and not chance a repeat of HHCD, Randall, Rollins and the countless other players that never reached their potential, while Whitt was coaching them.

 

[rodell330]

I do agree that maybe we need to look at a new DB coach....but I don’t think anyone can make Kentrell Brice Good in coverage. His eye discipline and anticipation stinks. I think eventually we will see Josh Jones take over at that spot. He’s a 2nd rd pick and would’ve probably been there had he not got hurt. May be the perfect time to implement him into the scheme going into a by week.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I do agree that maybe we need to look at a new DB coach....but I don’t think anyone can make Kentrell Brice Good in coverage. His eye discipline and anticipation stinks. I think eventually we will see Josh Jones take over at that spot. He’s a 2nd rd pick and would’ve probably been there had he not got hurt. May be the perfect time to implement him into the scheme going into a by week.

I agree on Brice, I might have been in the minority at the beginning of the season thinking that, but I have never seen much out of him to say "hey this guy is going to be good".

Nahhh.....Josh Jones isn't going to do much until year 5 and he is with another team

 

[Sunshinepacker]

This is one I agree to disagree with you I get what you are saying about injuries, but that is part of the game and some of the top pass defenses deal with them too. All the evidence I really need is the draft capital spent on the position hasn't been anywhere equal to the level of play we are seeing produced. Now with King, Alexander and Jackson being recent picks, I would rather see a new coach come in and not chance a repeat of HHCD, Randall, Rollins and the countless other players that never reached their potential, while Whitt was coaching them.

HHCD is one of the best safeties in the NFL right now. Rollins was good as a rookie and then injuries robbed him of his limited athleticism. Randall, well, I'm content to believe that the Packers needed far more help at corner while he was here than safety and so he wasn't put in the best position. I don't understand this dislike of Whitt. The guy has been coaching stiffs for years and now we suddenly want him to make elite players of King (who is essentially a rookie), and two actual rookies? Are we only going to be happy when our rookies come in and play like All-Pros within three weeks?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

HHCD is one of the best safeties in the NFL right now. Rollins was good as a rookie and then injuries robbed him of his limited athleticism. Randall, well, I'm content to believe that the Packers needed far more help at corner while he was here than safety and so he wasn't put in the best position. I don't understand this dislike of Whitt. The guy has been coaching stiffs for years and now we suddenly want him to make elite players of King (who is essentially a rookie), and two actual rookies? Are we only going to be happy when our rookies come in and play like All-Pros within three weeks?

I would disagree with your take on HHCD, but I'm sure some statistical web site would agree with you. I also wouldn't want the Packers to fall into the trap of believing that HHCD is one of the best safeties in the league and overpaying him because of it.

Whitt has had plenty of talent to coach over his tenure in Green Bay, his one shiny success, Shields. But to try and say Whitt has been coaching stiffs for years is understating the resources he has been handed. I'm sure if I combed 31 rosters, I could find plenty of "stiffs" that have played much better than the ones in Green Bay have and very few teams, if any, that have invested the same draft resources into their secondaries.

I hope the play of the secondary proves me wrong and King, Alexander, Jackson and anyone else that Whitt gets his hands on turn into top players. So far, none of those 3 have shown me a vast improvement from where they were when they were considered top college prospects. I'm just tired of the secondary consistently being a very weak link and hearing "injuries, TT and Capers" were the only reason for bad tackling, blown assignments and an overall under performing group. TT and Capers are gone, injuries will always be there.....time for Whitt to take all the draft talent he has been afforded and prove his abilities as an NFL coach.....oh wait.....Fire Pettine!

 

[swhitset]

I never understood how people can be so adamant about something they know nothing about? I mean really, tell me 1 single thing you know about Joe Whitt and his coaching, what he's taught and what he's doing wrong, specifically. We can all see lapses in the defense. but this is at EVERY level. The Dline has mad emistakes, LB'er play DB and safety. They gave up a couple big plays, and that has to get better, but seriously, there were about 6-7 passes that accounted for almost all of their offense. And if you're going to blast the man for the first half, what about the 2nd? How many passing yards and points given up? Did he just figure out how to coach DB's at halftime and get them up to speed?

I get it, the past hasn't reflected well on the DB's and there are a lot of reasons for it. Mostly injury related and that should be obvious, maybe it's blindingly obvious? I don't know, but it should be. anyway, when former Packer greats think Whitt is a great coach, i'm thinking they have a better take on things. so far i've seen nothing other than a couple individual breakdowns and scheme related things that have lead to big plays more so than anything I could possibly pin on Whitt and his coaching techniques. And though it looks the same, I think it has more to do with 6 weeks in to a new defense. If they're doing this in year 2-3 maybe you're on to something, but right now I think you're just guessing. Maybe you guys have more insight?

It should be noted that the defense has not had its number 1 draft pick available for the last 2 games as well.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

How are you that simple in the head?

No need for that thanks

 

[Dantés]

I am so tired of the Packers secondary breaking down. Guys getting lost in coverage, guys not covering, guys who cant tackle, interference calls, etc. How many years have we been seeing this and who is the one guy who has been in the organization since 2008? How many games are we going to see average or below average QB's and receivers have career games against the Packers?

Please, I don't want to hear that he made Sam Shields a Pro Bowler, every blind squirrel finds a nut!

We have secondary players leaving Green Bay and playing much better with other teams.

Time to get rid of Whitt before he finds a way to ruin King, Jackson and Alexander.

Samuel George Shields III!!!

Game, set, match.

How are you that simple in the head?

It was a joke in response to Pokerbrat's request that people not bring up Shields.

But to answer your question-- I was just born this way.

 

[swhitset]

I would imagine...

hmm..

 

[swhitset]

If he doesn't find a way to get HAHA of the field he will be accountable.

huh??

 

[gopkrs]

And Hayward and Hyde were both a causality of cap and FA with young guys behind them that looked like they were going to replace them. What makes you think Whitt told Ted to get rid of them?

I have no reason to believe Whitt told Ted anything at all. I just think that if you are a position coach and you have a strong feeling about a player; you should definitely make your case. It seems like maybe he did not have strong feelings one way or the other. But probably should have had. And so now I am only recently wondering what he does teach as a position coach. Anything?? Tackling...I don't think so. Thinking about situations...doesn't seem like it. Telling Ha Ha how deep to play...probably. I'm just kind of frustrated I guess. And it certainly is not just the DBs.

 

[swhitset]

So many baseless opinions in this thread. Personally... I have no opinion on Whitt one way or the other. How could I? I have absolutely no idea what he is doing or isn’t doing. Or even what he is supposed to be doing. I do know that the current secondary is full of rookies and that the supposed best CB is not only a rookie, but hasn’t even played the last 2 games due to injury. I do know that we have a brand new defensive coordinator, and that the new GM and Head defensive coach apparently felt that Whit belongs here. We are 6 games into a new defensive scheme with brand new young inexperienced players. I think this is a lot of over reaction without a lot of knowledge.

ps see my response about my reaction to calling out former Davante Adams haters for perspective.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I would disagree with your take on HHCD, but I'm sure some statistical web site would agree with you. I also wouldn't want the Packers to fall into the trap of believing that HHCD is one of the best safeties in the league and overpaying him because of it.

Whitt has had plenty of talent to coach over his tenure in Green Bay, his one shiny success, Shields. But to try and say Whitt has been coaching stiffs for years is understating the resources he has been handed. I'm sure if I combed 31 rosters, I could find plenty of "stiffs" that have played much better than the ones in Green Bay have and very few teams, if any, that have invested the same draft resources into their secondaries.

I hope the play of the secondary proves me wrong and King, Alexander, Jackson and anyone else that Whitt gets his hands on turn into top players. So far, none of those 3 have shown me a vast improvement from where they were when they were considered top college prospects. I'm just tired of the secondary consistently being a very weak link and hearing "injuries, TT and Capers" were the only reason for bad tackling, blown assignments and an overall under performing group. TT and Capers are gone, injuries will always be there.....time for Whitt to take all the draft talent he has been afforded and prove his abilities as an NFL coach.....oh wait.....Fire Pettine!

Why is statistics a derogatory term nowadays? Aside from that, as you evaluate HHCD, do you actually watch every other safety in the NFL (for every snap) every single week to make an accurate judgement on his play relative to others? It's doubtful, not many have the time or resources to do that (I certainly don't!) which is why it tends to be people who are employed for solely that reason that I refer to when trying to judge guys on a league-wide basis.

 

[Mondio]

I saw statistics used to prove Hornibrook was actually a good QB during the MI game on saturday. They’re a dirty dirty word now LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Why is statistics a derogatory term nowadays? Aside from that, as you evaluate HHCD, do you actually watch every other safety in the NFL (for every snap) every single week to make an accurate judgement on his play relative to others? It's doubtful, not many have the time or resources to do that (I certainly don't!) which is why it tends to be people who are employed for solely that reason that I refer to when trying to judge guys on a league-wide basis.

Admittedly, I do not do all of this. However, I have watched every game HHCD has played in and I really don't care what the stats say for him for the last 5 games, he hasn't played like a top S in his 4+ years in GB. Which is why I said, if the Packers want to pay him as one, I wouldn't be behind it.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Stats are not a derogatory term, but you definitely can look at them and get the wrong idea.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I do agree that maybe we need to look at a new DB coach....but I don’t think anyone can make Kentrell Brice Good in coverage. His eye discipline and anticipation stinks. I think eventually we will see Josh Jones take over at that spot. He’s a 2nd rd pick and would’ve probably been there had he not got hurt. May be the perfect time to implement him into the scheme going into a by week.

I don't think anyone would say Brice, House or Gunter are studs, or that they'd hack it on other rosters. But there have been competent picks even by Thompson that were ill coached here, by Capers yes but more so by Whitt.

So far Whitt has not proved to me that he's earned his promotion, and I feel bad for Pettine that he got forced on him.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

So many baseless opinions in this thread. Personally... I have no opinion on Whitt one way or the other. How could I? I have absolutely no idea what he is doing or isn’t doing. Or even what he is supposed to be doing. I do know that the current secondary is full of rookies and that the supposed best CB is not only a rookie, but hasn’t even played the last 2 games due to injury. I do know that we have a brand new defensive coordinator, and that the new GM and Head defensive coach apparently felt that Whit belongs here. We are 6 games into a new defensive scheme with brand new young inexperienced players. I think this is a lot of over reaction without a lot of knowledge.

ps see my response about my reaction to calling out former Davante Adams haters for perspective.

Most of the knocks on Whitt I think are less about the young corners and more that a couple of veteran safeties are underperforming.

There is fear though that our stud young CBs might regress in year 2 the way Rollins and Randall did though.

Some of the posts that are baseless appear to just be troll shots at McCarthy using Whitt as the foil.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Shields is to busy being awesome right now

he is also risking his life with the condition he has...I admire him for the intestinal fortitude he is displaying. definitely hard to root against the guy.

 

[rodell330]

HHCD is one of the best safeties in the NFL right now. Rollins was good as a rookie and then injuries robbed him of his limited athleticism. Randall, well, I'm content to believe that the Packers needed far more help at corner while he was here than safety and so he wasn't put in the best position. I don't understand this dislike of Whitt. The guy has been coaching stiffs for years and now we suddenly want him to make elite players of King (who is essentially a rookie), and two actual rookies? Are we only going to be happy when our rookies come in and play like All-Pros within three weeks?

Is this a trick question

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Admittedly, I do not do all of this. However, I have watched every game HHCD has played in and I really don't care what the stats say for him for the last 5 games, he hasn't played like a top S in his 4+ years in GB. Which is why I said, if the Packers want to pay him as one, I wouldn't be behind it.

Again, unless you are actually watching every other safety on every play it's impossible to say he's not a top-10 safety. He might not be as great as you want him to be but you can't say there are more than 10 other safeties better than him unless you've actually watched those guys. Now, I too am leery of paying a guy who has a great year in a contract season so I too am not necessarily on board with paying HHCD a lot of money. Then again, if you want this team to win a Super Bowl any time soon it might not be a great idea for the team to go into next season needing to replace TWO safeties.

 

[gopkrs]

he is also risking his life with the condition he has...I admire him for the intestinal fortitude he is displaying. definitely hard to root against the guy.

I was unaware. What condition does he have?

 

[C-Lee]

I was unaware. What condition does he have?

He's had like 5 "reported" concussions. The last one he got prevented him from playing for an entire season.

 

[yooperpackfan]

I was unaware. What condition does he have?

Concussion issues.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Again, unless you are actually watching every other safety on every play it's impossible to say he's not a top-10 safety. He might not be as great as you want him to be but you can't say there are more than 10 other safeties better than him unless you've actually watched those guys. Now, I too am leery of paying a guy who has a great year in a contract season so I too am not necessarily on board with paying HHCD a lot of money. Then again, if you want this team to win a Super Bowl any time soon it might not be a great idea for the team to go into next season needing to replace TWO safeties.

Fair enough, but if I see two pretty sure upgrade coming out of the draft plus an opportunity to get a better DBs coach and give Pettine complete control of the defense without being forced to work with Whitt, I'd shoot for it.