Joe Whitt / Winston Moss FIRED - merged threads

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe they have invested so much on the secondary while ignoring building a pass rush?

Matthew's is past done and the other guys are just average. They have to blitz to get any pressure whatsoever. I just feel they have put the cart in front of the horse here as far as building this defense.

I buy that to a certain extent, but you can't help but notice very inconsistent play by many of the players in the secondary. Missing tackles, not being in the right place, etc. those aren't because of a poor pass rush, they are guys not knowing what they are suppose to be doing. Sure, if we had a pass rush that was unbelievable, maybe those guys would look like studs statistically. However, if you strip down how they play when called upon, I would conclude that a big part of their problem is that they are poorly coached.

Do the Packers need more weapons for pass rushing? Hell yes! But I think you are still going to see high draft picks in the secondary under perform until a new coach is found to teach them some of the basics.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Maybe they have invested so much on the secondary while ignoring building a pass rush?

Matthew's is past done and the other guys are just average. They have to blitz to get any pressure whatsoever. I just feel they have put the cart in front of the horse here as far as building this defense.

It's kind of a chicken and egg scenario that can go around about front 7 pressure and the DBs holding up on their end. I am more than ok with replacing Clay once this season is over as well as possibly Perry too, and HHCD certainly should be on the hot seat as well, or at least get moved to SS to replace Brice and the next draft see a ball hawk FS get brought in who diagnoses plays better.

But I am 100℅ against Whitt damaging this secondary any more than he already has. We can surely find a better DB developer than him, and I say he should be the lone coach sent out the door this offseason. I feel like the coverage should hold up just a little more and the sack numbers will go up.

Keep in mind too our defensive front is a little low on depth with Wilkerson out.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is odd timing in calling for Whitt's head.

So, this was a first half that included 3 turnovers, 3 missed FGs in the 75 - 85% range which equated to 3 additional turnovers, and a 24-0 deficit. That tells the story.

The D-backfield is vastly improved by any measure with 2 rookies and a starting perimeter corner chronically injured.

Shouldn't this have at least waited until the D-backfield is a clear culprit in a loss?

Is there really a "good time" to not call for Whitt to be gone? How many times did the Packer defense play "ok" under Capers, that still didn't mean Capers job should be safe. Although the secondary didn't do anything yesterday too drastically bad to cost us the game, they made quite a few glaring mistakes as well as they didn't do anything to help the Packers win a game.

Should the Packers just wait until the secondary costs us yet another game to pull the trigger on Whitt?

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Is this our standard response to bad runs ? Fire everybody ? Jeez.

No but if we fired Whitt and hired LeRoy Butler to coach our DBs we'd get an instant upgrade.

Hire LeRoy Butler, he could coach these guys up especially since he was one of the best DBs in Packer history.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

The D-backfield is vastly improved by any measure with 2 rookies and a starting perimeter corner chronically injured.

And I don't want our current incompetent DB coach to ruin them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And I don't want our current incompetent DB coach to ruin them.

Agreed. I think we saw that with Randall and to some extent Rollins. Are we seeing the same with King now? Guys like Hayward and Hyde (not Whitt's responsibility at the time) go to other teams and play better. Randall is even playing better in Cleveland, go figure.

 

[Mondio]

I think you guys are attributing things to players that had zero to do with their position coach.

 

[JK64]

Why just Joe Whitt? Team came out flat and has it appears no interest in this game. Half the team stayed in the hot tub and the other half said f*** it. Since the middle of 2014, this team refuses to play 4 quarters. It looks obvious MM has lost the team some time ago. They don't play 4 quarters, get epidemics of injuries and continue to make one dumb mistake after another.

Whitt and MM should go. I'm tired of all of the mistakes and penalties. Under-performance is the status quo with these two.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I think you guys are attributing things to players that had zero to do with their position coach.

Too many DBs going from good to bad and having to get shipped out goes beyond just a player problem.

 

[Mondio]

Too many DBs going from good to bad and having to get shipped out goes beyond just a player problem.

Randall was good here, he was injured and then was good. He was playing out of position and he’s changed it on a different team. He can play more free. And it’s his 4th season. Hyde was good here, Hyde switched positions when he left. Hayward was good here, then injured then good. He is now in his prime playing years for someone else. Rollins was good then never really played another healthy snap here.

Who else? We have had youth, injuries, and position switches.

Alexander and Jackson can flat out play. They’re are better now than when they graduated college. Think that’s an accident?

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I guess my view is just more closely aligned with post no. 22 in the thread that Captain posted.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Randall is even playing better in Cleveland, go figure.

That's Thompson's fault and then Randall's fault. Randall should have never been drafted to play CB. He was a natural free safety and that's what he's doing now. This is not 20/20 highsight. I've said this since the day he was drafted. After that, Randall's tantrum made his departure a foregone conclusion. If they didn't trade him they would have cut him.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

That's Thompson's fault and then Randall's fault. Randall should have never been drafted to play CB. He was a natural free safety and that's what he's doing now. This is not 20/20 highsight. I've said this since the day he was drafted. After that, Randall's tantrum made his departure a foregone conclusion. If they didn't trade him they would have cut him.

I don't think Thompson ordered Capers and Whitt to stick him at CB.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't think Thompson ordered Capers and Whitt to stick him at CB.

LOL, a position coach telling the GM he's wrong. That's what the boss bought. But, OK, add Capers to the list of those responsible for this island misfit toy, pun intended. Whitt would have been pretty low on the totem pole of decision makers. Position coaches don't make those kinds of calls.

Of course, when you have to play guys like LaDarius Gunter, Dmitri Goodson and various and sundry players who can't stay healthy there's a certain talent shortfall that needs to be considered.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Time to get rid of Whitt before he finds a way to ruin King, Jackson and Alexander.

What have you seen so far to suggest he will? He's got these guys playing pretty well given the experience level.

 

[swhitset]

Is this our standard response to bad runs ? Fire everybody ? Jeez.

umm yeah i think that about sums it up lol.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It's close to impossible for fans to fairly evaluate the work of a position coach but the performance of the secondary over the past few seasons has been abysmal. That is especially concerning considering the fact that the team has spent seven (!!!) first or second rounders on either cornerback or safety over the past five drafts. At some point Whitt should be held accountable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Whitt was the cornerbacks coach up until this season. Blaming him for safety performance prior to this season doesn't make sense.

Anyway, lets break down those 7 DBs:

Alexander - TDB
Jackson - TBD

So far, these guys look quite promising.

King - chronically injured so far and TDB
Josh Jones - drafted to play hybrid ILB, now deemed to be a mistake with the Burks do-over
Randall - misfit toy at CB
Rollins - chronically injured
Clinton-Dix - decent safety, neither as good as some think at the one extreme nor as bad as others think at the other extreme

Now, as "pass game coordinator", which would include LB coverages, Whitt has brought about meaningful improvement.

Maybe if there is disatisfaction with the seconday, though I don't know what that would be unless it's never making a mistake, never getting beat, and giving up more than 0 passing yards, perhaps its the secondary coach who should be fired. That's Jason Simmons.

Again, of all the things that have gone wrong this season the secondary remains a bright spot, noticeabley better than the 10-6 2016 team's performance.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Is this our standard response to bad runs ? Fire everybody ? Jeez.

Or maybe this is "The Apprentice" week, fire everybody but one?

I guess that would be Kenny Clark. He seems to be the only guy not drawing at least some scorn.

 

[HardRightEdge]

And I don't want our current incompetent DB coach to ruin them.

You mean Jason Simmons, I presume?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It's kind of a chicken and egg scenario that can go around about front 7 pressure and the DBs holding up on their end. I am more than ok with replacing Clay once this season is over as well as possibly Perry too, and HHCD certainly should be on the hot seat as well, or at least get moved to SS to replace Brice and the next draft see a ball hawk FS get brought in who diagnoses plays better.

But I am 100℅ against Whitt damaging this secondary any more than he already has. We can surely find a better DB developer than him, and I say he should be the lone coach sent out the door this offseason. I feel like the coverage should hold up just a little more and the sack numbers will go up.

Keep in mind too our defensive front is a little low on depth with Wilkerson out.

What exactly has Whitt done wrong with the secondary? The guy is working with duct tape and bailing wire back there, counting on TWO rookies (really three with King) to play extensively and he's stuck with Brice as a fourth option. Outside of traveling back in time to draft better players what else are we looking for?

HHCD has been pretty good this year, though it's to be seen how much he's looking for in free agency (Derwin James sure would have looked good in Green n Gold). As for the pass rush, yeah, that's TT's biggest failure right now (though cornerback is kind of 1B). Not finding any edge rushers and then re-signing Perry to a deal he was never going to live up to because TT was desperate.

I'm all for coaches getting blamed for areas they've failed but Whitt is certainly not a coach I would single out for the worst performance on this team.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I don't think Thompson ordered Capers and Whitt to stick him at CB.

Nope, Capers and Whitt should have left their first round pick on the bench behind HHCD and Burnett while starting Ladarius Gunter at corner....

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

What have you seen so far to suggest he will? He's got these guys playing pretty well given the experience level.

A history of flopped DBs

 

[HardRightEdge]

A history of flopped DBs

So, now we have a Gutekunst draft of college CBs called upon to play CB, Williams redux and no more Capers. Suddenly, the arrow is pointing up. And yet, a trend is beyond perception?

Still, we enter a game with 4 CBs thanks to the Alexander and Breeland injuries, one goes out, and you cannot even run a nickel without Troy "Big Mouth" Brown. And yet they still held up their end of the bargain.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What have you seen so far to suggest he will? He's got these guys playing pretty well given the experience level.

What I have seen so far are high draft pics flopping, a lot of blown coverage assignments, guys who can't tackle to save their lives, bad attitudes from some and DB's costing the Packers defense a lot of yards and TD's while under Whitt's coaching. I was hoping bringing in a vet like Williams might have the "Woodson Effect" on the younger guys, but it really hasn't seemed to do a whole lot. Yes, King has been injured a lot, but that doesn't mean he can't be coached. He still looks like a guy with a lot of potential right out of college, I haven't seen any improvement from him. Jackson and Alexander, the same. Talented players, but will Whitt take them to the next level?

Right now, I see a secondary that seems to be playing individually and not collectively. I put that on the coach.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I really didn't know Whitt had a bunch of friends in here, plus the definition of good playing DBs seems to be subjective around here.

Alexander and Jackson have not yet been around long enough to be deeply indoctrinated in the broken Whitt coaching system. Hopefully Pettine has him sent out the door before they do.